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[0:48] <bigtemp> gah, so my harddrive died.. and so did the 4G freenet store I had on it
[0:49] <bigtemp> so I got a nice 200G, and got linux up and running again, and after a few days decided to run a node.. with 20G now that I had the extra space
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[0:49] <bigtemp> but there seem to be problems: my node's not making ANY peer connections
[0:50] <bigtemp> well, I ran it overnight yesterday, it had 6 connections. came back from work today, still 6 connections. I stopped and restarted, no connections. no new connections.
[0:50] <bigtemp> does this have anything to do with the fact that freenet news got posted to slashdot a couple days ago?
[0:52] <bigtemp> running stable 5102 btw
[0:57] <bigtemp> hrm, that might explain it.. update.sh seems to download seednodes.ref.bz2, but doesn't actually bunzip2 it. GENIUS
[0:59] <TheSeeker> don't you also have to kill your routing table files for it to use the seednodes ref?
[1:15] <linyos> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
[1:16] <bigtemp> TheSeeker: routing tables were already dead
[1:16] <bigtemp> I was starting fresh
[1:16] <bigtemp> anyway, it SEEMS to have caught now.. holding steady to about 6 nodes right now
[1:17] <bigtemp> ah, and I can load the freedom engine.. good sign
[1:17] <bigtemp> and the GPL as well.. whee
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[6:30] <nextgens> hi
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[8:06] <nextgens> ROFL
[8:06] * nextgens is reading the latest post of newbyte on tech ;)
[8:10] <Drew> FYI I can confirm that installing Freenet on an XP professional system sets maxnodeconnections to 60
[8:12] <toad_> ouch
[8:12] <Drew> indeed
[8:15] <toad_> the log^2(N) requests-per-cycle simulation rather suggests that the problem was that we need more requests... it does seem to be consistently above the original...
[8:15] <toad_> original is fixed requests per cycle
[8:17] <toad_> it still falls of course...
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[8:24] <toad_> sometime i'll try log^3...
[8:24] <toad_> and log^2 with 20k base requests instead of 10k
[8:24] <toad_> but i need somewhere to run these
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[10:03] <toad_> be back ~ 20 minutes
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[10:23] <hobx_> I have this distinct feeling that mys creen should be hollow...
[10:24] <hobx_> That there is something inside there waiting to get out
[11:13] <Ash-Fox> I fear the day that the content I've downloaded off freenet would be used against me to make me look bad in court... (anarchy, the 'bad' religions (ie: Satanism, Muslim budism etc.), computer hacking, various outragious documents)
[11:14] <greycat> I fear the day when the constitution is one of those "outrageous" documents.
[11:14] <Ash-Fox> Theres a constitution? ;)
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[11:16] <Ash-Fox> I seriously need to get something like PGP drive, any reccomendations? (I don't pirate anything but information, aka: I don't pirate software)
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[11:50] <toad_> hi folks
[12:03] <- *Aljosha* hi
[12:13] <hobx_> ello
[12:13] <hobx_> Ash-Fox: How on earth is software not information?
[12:13] <hobx_> What exactly is it then?
[12:15] <Ash-Fox> hobx, I hate debating this :/
[12:15] <hobx_> I'm not looking for a debate
[12:15] <hobx_> There is nothing to debate, since what you said was nonsense.
[12:16] <Ash-Fox> hobx, yes, I know it is esentially informaton, but to me it isn't exactly information, it isn't something that I can exactly read off paper, software is a tool, if I pirate software I think of it more like stealing tools
[12:16] <hobx_> Can you read an mp3 off paper?
[12:17] <hobx_> A 4 gig DVD image?
[12:17] <Ash-Fox> Pretty much no :)
[12:20] <Ash-Fox> hobx, how about I just say I don't like pirating software :)
[12:21] <hobx_> sure.
[12:21] <hobx_> I don't run pirated software either.
[12:21] <hobx_> (Of course, I certainly wouldn't pay for it...)
[12:22] <Ash-Fox> I'm in a gray area with windows... I have baught one legal copy of it, but I use it on two computer (my other comps though run legal OS software, including OSS)
[12:22] <Ash-Fox> But other than that... I'd have to say I'm clean software wise
[12:22] <hobx_> How is that grey?
[12:23] <hobx_> That is piracy.
[12:23] <Ash-Fox> It's not considered piracy by law here
[12:23] <Ash-Fox> But, you can be sued for it, which is kind of funny
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[12:24] <Ash-Fox> It's a gray area because it infringes on your fair-rights usage, but at the same time you agree to some legalities by installing the software
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[12:51] <Ash-Fox> hobx, would you have any idea on a free equilivant to PGPdisk?
[13:08] <hobx_> what is PGPdisk?
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[13:52] <toad_> uhhh
[13:53] <toad_> i don't like pirating software, music or movies either. Unless they are overwhelmingly in the public interest. Such as the Diebold software, and SOME video.
[13:53] <nextgens> but ? :-D
[13:53] <toad_> Ash-Fox: non-profit infringement is piracy most places, including europe and the US
[13:54] <toad_> nextgens: but what?
[13:54] <toad_> nextgens: congrats on getting IRC to work through the firewall :)
[13:54] <nextgens> it still be crappy :'(
[13:54] <toad_> hmmm
[13:54] <nextgens> I can't use any accent nor special character
[13:55] <toad_> well, with log^2(N) requests per cycle (starting at 10,000 for 200 nodes), we get a substantially slower fall in psuccess
[13:55] <toad_> it's still well over 96% at 2,917 nodes
[13:55] <toad_> and the path length is shorter too
[13:55] <toad_> but it's definitely falling
[13:55] <toad_> i need to graph it... and run a bunch of variations on it on the cluster
[13:56] <toad_> will do so in a minute
[13:56] <toad_> brb
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[14:01] <toad_> hi
[14:01] <toad_> well okay not "well over"...
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[14:07] <linyos> it's amusing how people on the internet make copying computer data into this huge, perennial ethical flamewar
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[14:08] <linyos> when really, of the problems facing any person, or any society, the ethics of computer data copying are insignificant.
[14:08] <toad_> the consequences of attempting to restrict such copying are by no means insignificant
[14:09] <linyos> preaching to the choir, here.
[14:10] <toad_> and the biggest ethical problems get very little attention most of the time
[14:10] <toad_> e.g. world poverty
[14:12] <linyos> actually i think people do try to care.
[14:12] <toad_> copying computer data is mostly important because it is alleged to cost a huge amount of money
[14:12] <toad_> in political terms i mean
[14:13] <toad_> in terms of mainstream politics
[14:13] <linyos> but ethical problems are either in the "world poverty" category, that is, they are far removed from your life and difficult to address in any way (overthrow kim jong il lately?)
[14:14] <linyos> or they are in the "my personal behavior and attitude" category, which is also very difficult to work on.
[14:14] <toad_> actually world poverty is greatly exacerbated by the behaviour of western countries
[14:14] <toad_> but yes, I agree, people are very good at avoiding doing the right thing
[14:14] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/multi-whacky-graph.png
[14:14] <toad_> on a slightly different subject :)
[14:15] <toad_> not as impressive a difference as i had hoped for...
[14:15] <spaetz__> yay.looks pretty
[14:15] <spaetz__> a rainbow :)
[14:16] <spaetz__> what does it mean?
[14:16] <toad_> well, red is the best algorithm i've found so far for trusted links routing
[14:16] <spaetz__> retrieval success with n nodes in the net?
[14:17] <toad_> estimate = pfailure * tsuccess, 200 nodes, 20 htl insert and retrieve
[14:17] <toad_> with 10,000 requests per cycle (on each cycle we add a node)
[14:17] <toad_> y axis is probability
[14:17] <toad_> x axis is number of nodes
[14:17] <spaetz__> ahh, number of nodes. OK
[14:17] <toad_> green is with the number of requests per cycle increasing proportionately to the log of the number of nodes
[14:18] <toad_> blue is with it increasing proportionately to the square of the log of the number of nodes
[14:18] <toad_> in both cases it starts at 10,000
[14:18] <spaetz__> mmh, doesn't seem to make a huge difference
[14:18] <linyos> it'll hit probability zero in no time if that straight line continues
[14:18] <spaetz__> red green and blue respectively
[14:18] <nextgens> raah
[14:19] <toad_> well, there's a fair difference between red and blue
[14:19] <toad_> but we'll see
[14:19] <nextgens> n32 is restarting
[14:19] <toad_> linyos: it looks to me like it's slowing down at the end of the red line
[14:19] <linyos> toad_: have you written up the trusted links routing algorithm?
[14:19] <toad_> it's by no means straight
[14:19] <toad_> linyos: it's basically NGR
[14:20] <spaetz__> mmmh, looks like it's slowing a bit
[14:20] <linyos> draw a line through it, it's straight.
[14:20] * spaetz__ is now known as spaetz
[14:20] * linyos is so pessimistic.
[14:20] <toad_> i'm not convinced that red is straight
[14:21] <spaetz> do a linear regression on the data linyos
[14:21] <spaetz> that would convince me it is straight
[14:21] <spaetz> :)
[14:21] <linyos> i don't have the data but gnu octave probably has a function like that
[14:21] <toad_> i'm just using gnuplot
[14:21] <toad_> and you can have the data if you like
[14:22] <spaetz> toad_, a cvs handy somewhere?
[14:22] <spaetz> "csv"
[14:23] <spaetz> or something. Yep give me an url
[14:23] <toad_> sure, 1sec
[14:23] <spaetz> ahh, no hurry R is not yet installed on this box
[14:24] <linyos> looks like scilab does linear regressions, i have that
[14:25] <linyos> oh that was a joke
[14:25] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/whackysim/results/temp/
[14:25] <linyos> had to look up what a linear regression was, shows my math skillz.
[14:25] <linyos> :)
[14:26] <toad_> you might have to sed them a bit though
[14:26] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/whackysim/results/temp/simlog.growing.200-20-20.pfailure_times_tsuccess.log_reqs_per_cycle.bdra50 and the other are in this format:
[14:26] <toad_> <pre>211 0.9993069993069993, 10101 requests</pre>
[14:26] <toad_> argh
[14:26] <toad_> stupid mozilla
[14:26] <toad_> 200 0.998, 10000 requests
[14:28] <toad_> okay#
[14:28] <toad_> what do i want to run on the cluster? i have 11 nodes to play with
[14:28] <toad_> psuccess*tsuccess, bdra50, 200x20x20
[14:29] <toad_> i'd like to run the original to 10k nodes +, but it ran out of memory at 7000 nodes last time
[14:29] <toad_> so i'd better run that on mikeeusa's machine or somewhere
[14:30] <spaetz> he dedicates his machine?
[14:30] <toad_> or just try it again with the new memory optimisations
[14:30] <spaetz> wow, I'd never thought that
[14:30] <toad_> well it has lots of users
[14:30] <toad_> but not much work to do
[14:30] <linyos> toad_: you should plot random walk as a baseline
[14:30] <toad_> dual athlon MP, but only 1G RAM
[14:30] <toad_> linyos: i have, i just don't show it on that graph
[14:31] <toad_> linyos: it REALLY sucks
[14:31] <spaetz> only, hah
[14:31] <linyos> oh, good
[14:31] <linyos> at least we are doing better
[14:32] <linyos> toad_: how do the results vary as a function of routing table size? 10, 100, 1000, 10000....
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[14:33] <toad_> linyos: even 10 is barely practical with fixed/trusted links...
[14:33] <toad_> but i want to try 5 at some point
[14:33] <linyos> oh yeah.
[14:33] <linyos> i overlooked that
[14:34] <linyos> the structure of the link graph is even more critical when you have few links
[14:34] <linyos> how do you set up the graph?
[14:34] <nextgens> toad_: compiling the simulator will safe a few megs of ram, won t it ?
[14:35] <nextgens> I can try if you d like
[14:35] <toad_> src/freenet/node/simulator/whackysim/Main - setUpExplicitOneOverDStructureHobxRandom
[14:35] <toad_> nextgens: not many, and last time i tried it was a lot of trouble
[14:35] <linyos> iirc, gcj's memory use might have been 50% better than the other jvms for fred
[14:36] <toad_> i thought gcj's memory use was WORSE
[14:36] <toad_> anyway brb
[14:36] <hobx_> what on earth is HobxRandom?
[14:37] <spaetz> LOL
[14:40] <toad_> :)
[14:40] <linyos> puts the nodes in a ring. then it numbers them from 1..N, iterates through, and connects each node with X other nodes, choosing each node's number with the function node_count^(rand(0..1))
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[14:40] <toad_> nextgens: the other nodes are stable?
[14:41] <nextgens> they should :-D
[14:41] <toad_> is n32 up yet?
[14:41] <hobx_> And this requires my name?
[14:41] <nextgens> yes
[14:41] <toad_> okay
[14:41] <toad_> i need to upload some jars and start some sims
[14:41] <nextgens> ok
[14:42] <nextgens> and can't you upload the source on them and modify the simulator locally ?
[14:42] <linyos> or rather, choosing each node's _distance_
[14:42] <toad_> i could if i installed the JDK...
[14:43] * nextgens wonders if CVS can get trough the firewall
[14:43] <nextgens> yes, there is a JDK on them
[14:43] <linyos> i suppose that makes sense.
[14:43] <nextgens> j2sdk1.4.2 jdk1.5.0_02
[14:43] <nextgens> nextgens@n32:~> ls /usr/local/Cluster-Apps/j
[14:44] <toad_> okay, i rsync them from n32 using outgoing ssh?
[14:44] <nextgens> you can even choose ;)
[14:44] <nextgens> yes
[14:44] <toad_> is disk space okay?
[14:44] <toad_> looks it...
[14:44] <toad_> i could zap the old jars
[14:44] <nextgens> but there are quotas
[14:44] <toad_> is that useful?
[14:44] * toad_ zaps the old jars
[14:47] <nextgens> I suggested it more for the b/w usage
[14:50] <toad_> 32: 10k req/cycle
[14:50] <toad_> 31: log^2(N) with base 10k
[14:51] * Negi-Sensei (NEGRO@ool-4352b3cd.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[14:51] * [DH]Chris (~kicken18@80-193-62-89.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[14:56] <nextgens> toad_: there is a 1.5 jdk if you would like
[14:56] <toad_> cool
[14:56] <linyos> one thing to consider is whether and how quickly requests can pass through the darknet and out to a powerful, high-connection-degree node.
[14:56] <toad_> but i'll stick with doing it this way round
[14:56] <toad_> the transfers are pretty fast
[14:56] <toad_> linyos: you are assuming a hybrid?
[14:57] * [DH]Chris is now known as sf\chriss`Eat
[14:57] <linyos> toad_: i see no reason to cripple nodes that have no problem with many connections or promiscuous messaging or whatever
[14:58] <toad_> linyos: i'm not sure routing would work well on a hybrid
[14:58] <linyos> other than simplicity, if a consistent darknet routing algorithm works well enough.
[14:58] <toad_> i'm not sure routing works well on NGR+LRU in general actually
[14:58] <toad_> and i'd really like to validate large-scale darknet routing
[14:58] <toad_> in order to show that it works for when we really do need it
[14:59] <linyos> how could it be worse? the freer nodes would be better connected. that makes the nodes of the network, on average, closer together (if they are smart enough to use that better connectivity...)
[14:59] <linyos> agreed about falling back.
[14:59] <toad_> if NGR+LRU works
[15:00] <toad_> and IF the algorithms are compatible
[15:00] <toad_> even though they are very similar there are likely to be major behavioural differences
[15:01] <hobx_> Toad, please look at this: http://www.math.chalmers.se/~ossa/rv.pdf
[15:01] <linyos> in the real world it's entirely possible that, if you're in the darknet, three darknet hops away is some kind of superconnected supercomputer compared to you
[15:02] <linyos> but this is speculation
[15:02] <hobx_> The formula I gave you a while ago for creating values distributed the way you wanted them was not magic, it is a very simple calculation.
[15:04] <toad_> nextgens: curiously enough i don't have write access to /tmp/status
[15:04] <toad_> nextgens: please remove your scripts which are creating /tmp/status
[15:04] <toad_> hobx: thanks
[15:07] * nextgens wonders which one it is
[15:08] <toad_> nextgens: cron job to write /tmp/status using stats.sh
[15:08] <nextgens> done
[15:08] <toad_> you deleted the file too?
[15:08] <nextgens> yes
[15:09] <toad_> is it okay for me to have terminals tailing the output of the various files, from each node? bandwidth to parsifal is free, right?
[15:09] <nextgens> brb
[15:22] <nextgens> toad_: I prefer if you do it from n32
[15:23] <nextgens> I mean : start a screen on n32 and then ssh to other nodes from there
[15:23] <toad_> i have never been able to do that...
[15:23] <nextgens> there is a 10Gb/s network between the nodes
[15:23] <nextgens> ?
[15:23] <nextgens> just do screen
[15:23] <toad_> no i mean the ssh
[15:24] <nextgens> why ?
[15:24] <toad_> hmmm with a password it works...
[15:24] <toad_> ssh between nodes has never worked
[15:24] <nextgens> because you forgot -A
[15:24] <toad_> yay it works now
[15:25] <toad_> no, i tried that
[15:25] <toad_> but it works now
[15:25] <toad_> without -A
[15:25] <nextgens> logon n32 and do screen -rx
[15:26] <toad_> it's not screen that was the problem
[15:27] <toad_> okay i will go through n32 for all traffic in future
[15:27] <toad_> now that it works
[15:27] <nextgens> and please do use screen
[15:28] <toad_> why?
[15:28] <toad_> i can't easily switch between screens with screen
[15:28] <nextgens> you should still log the output in a file ... as if one node crashes, then the socket will be closed
[15:28] <toad_> yes, it's always logged in a file
[15:28] <toad_> i just tail them
[15:28] <nextgens> or in case of a network failure
[15:28] <nextgens> ok
[15:29] <nextgens> because using it, you won't have to login several times
[15:32] <nextgens> [20:31:57] <toad_> i can't easily switch between screens with screen
[15:32] <nextgens> you probably don't know how to use it ;)
[15:32] <nextgens> do you ?
[15:33] <nextgens> CTRL + N or P to switch tabs
[15:33] <nextgens> and you could even split the window to display several tabs
[15:33] <nextgens> anyway :/
[15:34] <nextgens> I'll be back tomorrow
[15:34] <nextgens> seeya
[15:34] <toad_> cya
[15:34] * nextgens (~nextgens@217.170.66.37) has left #freenet
[15:43] * mikeeusaa (~wdggwddwg@fd1dfdfbbbdf051d.session.tor) has joined #freenet
[15:43] <mikeeusaa> freenet!
[15:43] <mikeeusaa> DTwR
[15:44] <toad_> mikeeusaa: can the antifeminist crap please?
[15:44] <toad_> mikeeusaa: oh and thanks for letting me borrow your PC
[15:45] <mikeeusaa> I'm using acronym though
[15:45] <mikeeusaa> those not in the know... don't know
[15:45] <toad_> that's an improvement, yes :)
[15:45] <greycat> not much.
[15:46] * FallingBuzzar1 (~srademach@66.151.22.70) has joined #freenet
[15:46] <toad_> at least most newbies won't know what it means
[15:46] * FallingBuzzard (~srademach@66.151.22.70) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[15:46] <greycat> but they'll ask.
[15:46] <toad_> that is true
[15:46] <mikeeusaa> yes and then the'll know :)
[15:47] <mikeeusaa> or they can google
[15:47] <mikeeusaa> lemme check if google has it yet
[15:48] <mikeeusaa> nope not yet
[15:49] <mikeeusaa> maby I need to hit blogs...
[15:51] <toad_> nodes 22-32 all running simulations now...
[15:52] <toad_> all verified
[15:52] <toad_> results should be of some interest
[15:53] <toad_> either a) it doesn't make much difference, which tells us a lot
[15:53] <toad_> or b) it makes a significant difference, which tells us even more
[15:54] * Drew (~local@d2250479952824a4.session.tor) Quit ()
[15:54] <spaetz> so its going ot be interesting in any case :)
[15:55] <toad_> i hope so, yes
[15:57] <toad_> from the existing log^2 with 10k base, we have around a 1% (absolute) gain...
[15:57] * Ash-Fox (UNKNOWN@ect12.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[15:58] * Ash-Fox (UNKNOWN@ecv236.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[16:03] <spaetz> ahh completly forgot: 1.002 + numNodes * -1.592e-05 = proab
[16:03] <spaetz> this is from then26_whackysim-pfa... data I downloaded
[16:03] <toad_> ugh
[16:03] <toad_> does it give a match quality?
[16:03] <spaetz> Multiple R-Squared: 0.9801, Adjusted R-squared: 0.9801
[16:04] <toad_> can you try to match any other functions?
[16:04] <toad_> that's for the red line?
[16:04] <toad_> red line wobbles all over the place...
[16:04] <toad_> can you graph the match?
[16:04] <spaetz> mmh, good question. It's easy to throw a linear regression. But matching functions mmmh
[16:04] <toad_> well quadratic for example
[16:05] <spaetz> toad will try. Any more current data I should use?
[16:05] <spaetz> quadrat is worse. Will experiment a bit
[16:05] <toad_> yeah i just updated that directory
[16:05] <spaetz> ok
[16:05] <toad_> if you can plot the match with the original data that'd be cool
[16:06] <spaetz> arrg. many more files :-)
[16:06] <spaetz> any especially relevant ones?
[16:07] <spaetz> will just try the first one. Give me a sec
[16:11] <toad_> the red one
[16:11] <toad_> the biggest one
[16:28] <Elly> wahaha!
[16:28] <Elly> AP US is over
[16:30] <spaetz> http://spaetz.dyndns.org/tmp/
[16:30] <spaetz> I used n22_whackysim. Interesting are data.png regression.png
[16:30] <spaetz> and regressresult.txt
[16:31] <spaetz> R.R is the input to R if that is of interest to any
[16:31] <toad_> Elly: eh?
[16:32] <spaetz> mmh, pics are a bit small. enlarging
[16:32] <Elly> toad_: my US history course is over
[16:32] <Elly> I presented my final project today
[16:32] <Elly> so I'm done for the year
[16:32] <toad_> yay
[16:33] <spaetz> toad, pretty much linear besides values very close to 1
[16:34] <toad_> what about all the kinks further down on the red line?
[16:34] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/multi-whacky-graph.png
[16:35] <toad_> spaetz: did you lose marks for not arguing that the constitution was reactionary?
[16:35] <toad_> ;)
[16:35] <spaetz> :)
[16:37] <toad_> there was one kid who got sent to a psychologist because of what he wrote in his course...
[16:37] * Negi-Sensei (NEGRO@ool-4352b3cd.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[16:37] * goatee (~goatee@ip216-239-81-167.vif.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[16:37] <spaetz> hehe, not me though
[16:37] <toad_> fishhead feeds me wierd republican-slanted stories from time to time
[16:38] <spaetz> Although I handed in an excuse for not going to school arguing from a Calvin and Hobbes comic
[16:39] <Ash-Fox> Freenet-stable recently has become a lot more stable.. and faster than what I'm used to...
[16:39] <Ash-Fox> Even though it hasn't exactly changed much for a while
[16:39] <spaetz> about being forced to go to school intrudes on right for personal self-developmenl granted by constitution
[16:39] <spaetz> ...on MY right...
[16:40] <linyos> getting in trouble was always fun, because it was a chance to play your own lawyer.
[16:40] <spaetz> The teacher had humour though and signed off the excuse :)
[16:40] <mikeeusaa> spaetz about being forced to go to school intrudes on right for personal self-developmenl granted by constitution
[16:41] <mikeeusaa> also makes all children subject to whatever crap the state is pushing
[16:41] <mikeeusaa> feminism etc
[16:41] <toad_> or ISN'T pushing
[16:41] <greycat> can't you take that to #freenet-offtopic or something?
[16:41] <toad_> or whatever crap they tolerate and institutionalise
[16:41] * toad_ points to #freenet-politics
[16:41] * toad_ is always there...
[16:42] <linyos> ebay bidders who bitch about how my shipping fee is too high are obnoxious
[16:43] <linyos> like i'm going to reconsider it
[16:44] <Elly> hahahahahaha, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/18/vibrating_knickers/
[16:46] * sf\chriss`Eat (~kicken18@80-193-62-89.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[16:49] <mikeeusaa> with forced school the father has no control over what way his childern develop
[16:49] <mikeeusaa> he is irrelevant
[16:49] <mikeeusaa> the state is daddy
[16:50] <mikeeusaa> he is just chump who makes $$ for family that will get rid of him soon enough
[16:50] <linyos> i'm your daddy.
[16:50] <linyos> come here and sit on my lap.
[16:51] <mikeeusaa> sorry, I stopped going to church (catholic) awhile ago
[16:51] <mikeeusaa> :)
[16:51] <linyos> such a bad boy!
[16:51] <mikeeusaa> oh yea!
[16:51] <linyos> nothing a good spanking won't fix.
[16:52] <mikeeusaa> anyway the churches are just so pro-women's rights
[16:52] <mikeeusaa> I shan't support them
[16:53] <spaetz> toad, got the pics. I'm turning off the web server again
[16:53] <hobx> Does Linux still have a 2 gig file limit?
[16:53] <spaetz> got the pics? even
[16:53] * Ash-Fox knows there was a time when catholic churches could stone a woman for talking in a church
[16:53] <spaetz> hobx, no. Depending on the fs of course
[16:53] <greycat> hobx: depends on the kernel, the file system type, and the version of libc with which the program in question has been linked.
[16:54] <hobx> precise answer
[16:54] <spaetz> even running GNU/hurd does not have it anymore :)
[16:54] <Elly> 2.6 doesn't
[16:54] <mikeeusaa> * Ash-Fox knows there was a time when catholic churches could stone a woman for talking in a church
[16:54] <Elly> but yeah, it's FS dependent
[16:54] <mikeeusaa> that's not now
[16:54] <greycat> NFS does, and will for a while.
[16:54] <hobx> Updated sid, with 2.6.10 and ext3
[16:54] <spaetz> should be fine
[16:54] <Elly> yes of course
[16:54] <linyos> as long as you use the 64-bit system call.
[16:54] <mikeeusaa> hobx:
[16:55] <toad_> [20:55] * Ash-Fox knows there was a time when catholic churches could stone a woman for talking in a church
[16:55] <mikeeusaa> there is some not so smart female with a similar nick
[16:55] <mikeeusaa> hoxu6 I don't see how changing domain would help with that
[16:55] <toad_> you have a source for that?
[16:55] <mikeeusaa> you should sue for (C) infringe!
[16:55] <Ash-Fox> Why do you keep pasting that?
[16:55] <spaetz> he wants a source for that
[16:55] <spaetz> :)
[16:56] <Ash-Fox> toad_, not off hand
[16:56] <toad_> i know the medieval church was pretty bad
[16:56] <toad_> but that sounds implausible to me
[16:56] <mikeeusaa> Bible says women arent sposed to speak in churc
[16:56] <linyos> "the lie that uplifts us is dearer to me than the mass of petty facts"
[16:56] <Ash-Fox> toad_, that's nothing :P
[16:56] <mikeeusaa> ch
[16:56] <toad_> (to the point of banning english translations of the bible for a long time!)
[16:56] <mikeeusaa> if they have questions ask husbands at home
[16:57] <Ash-Fox> toad_, theres a lot more like that, such as stoning children if they are rude to their parents and disobey the priest
[16:57] <mikeeusaa> toad_ (to the point of banning english translations of the bible for a long time!)
[16:57] <Elly> toad_: It's not implausible at all
[16:57] <mikeeusaa> that's because CChurch was going against bible
[16:57] <toad_> Ash-Fox: well, sources would be nice
[16:57] <toad_> mikeeusaa: right
[16:57] <toad_> and because they had to maintain their monopoly on truth
[16:57] <Ash-Fox> toad_, pretty much the bibles have it all written in their 'rules'
[16:57] <toad_> you can only read the bible through the priest, who knows Latin
[16:57] <linyos> whenever the mean age of this chatroom declines too far, it turns into the high-school debate club from hell..
[16:58] <mikeeusaa> toad_, and blantantly against bible
[16:58] * Ash-Fox read translated bibles
[16:58] <toad_> of course very few peasants knew latin
[16:58] <toad_> and it was written in greek and hebrew and aramaic
[16:58] <toad_> not latin
[16:58] <mikeeusaa> like the part about priests, elders, etc sposed to be married
[16:58] <mikeeusaa> well CC banned marraige for priests etc
[16:58] <spaetz> NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
[16:59] <Ash-Fox> toad_, if you ever read the Exodus, Genesis bibles.. they'd be a good start to see the insane ideals they had
[16:59] <Elly> spaetz: =D
[16:59] * spaetz shuts up
[16:59] <hobx> spaetz: Believe me, I do...
[16:59] <mikeeusaa> also banned polygny when there is nothing against it in the bible
[16:59] <toad_> okay, maybe we should take this elsewhere...
[16:59] <spaetz> http://orangecow.org/pythonet/the-spanish-inquisition.html
[16:59] <mikeeusaa> Ash-Fox, read the OT
[16:59] <toad_> mikeeusaa: i've had that debate with you
[16:59] <Elly> cough #freenet-politics cough
[16:59] * spaetz points to #freenet-offtopic :)
[16:59] <mikeeusaa> Ash-Fox it's nice, opression of women :)
[16:59] <mikeeusaa> Ash-Fox pretty much the same with NT, although NT is small book compared to OT
[16:59] <Ash-Fox> They all opression of women last time I checked :P
[16:59] <toad_> and i would answer your other points but this really belongs on #freenet-politics
[17:00] * hobx sets mode +b *!*.tor@*
[17:00] <mikeeusaa> Ash-Fox, but without the OT it's just not complete
[17:00] <toad_> or #freenet-chat
[17:00] <mikeeusaa>
[17:00] * hobx sets mode +b *!*@*.tor
[17:00] <toad_> hobx: THAT is excessive
[17:00] <Elly> NT isn't small
[17:00] <Ash-Fox> Yay
[17:00] <hobx> anyone else use it?
[17:00] <Elly> NT is damned huge
[17:00] <greycat> you can add per-user exceptions to bans/quiets
[17:00] <Elly> like 800-900MB
[17:00] <spaetz> hobx, just use your clients ignore command. Works wonders
[17:00] <toad_> Elly: uh, no
[17:00] <Ash-Fox> What the heck is .tor ?
[17:00] <greycat> that's what we do in #debian -- ban tor, and then make exceptions for users who are actually behaving
[17:00] <toad_> Elly: oh
[17:00] <Elly> toad_, did you fix that chanserv thing yet?
[17:00] <toad_> Elly: ugh
[17:01] * hobx sets mode -b *!*.tor@*
[17:01] <toad_> Elly: well strangely enough, it worked on hobx
[17:01] <Elly> yeah, how do you end up with a .tor mask on freenode anyway
[17:01] <greycat> Ash-Fox: an anonymizing network
[17:01] <toad_> Elly: i opped hobx same as i opped you
[17:01] <Elly> .tor isn't a real domain name
[17:01] <toad_> Elly: i'm sure you can get op back
[17:01] <Elly> toad_: Yeah, but hobx hasn't left
[17:01] <Ash-Fox> I know it's not a real TLD.. that's why I was asking
[17:01] <Elly> I can't get op again without chanserv access or you doing it manually
[17:01] * mikeeusaa was kicked from #freenet by hobx
[17:01] <Elly> and getting you to do stuff manually takes a while
[17:03] <hobx> If he gave us operator status on the channel (which level 9 iirc) then you should just be able to do /msg chanserv op #freenet
[17:03] <Elly> but he didn't
[17:03] * ChanServ sets mode +oo sanity Elly
[17:03] <Elly> now he did =p
[17:04] <Ash-Fox> I really would like it if sourceforge wouldn't remove me from the mailing list constantly...
[17:04] <toad_> level 10 actually iirc
[17:04] <toad_> or /msg chanserv op all
[17:04] <Elly> cmdop is level 10, yes
[17:04] <toad_> if anyone wants to debate feminism, the old testament, the excesses of the catholic church or whatever, go to #freenet-politics or #freenet-chat. i am ALWAYS there.
[17:05] <toad_> why does ssh always do this before a successful login?:
[17:05] <toad_> May 18 20:03:01 amphibian sshd[18298]: Failed none for nextgens from
[17:05] <toad_> +161.74.83.48 port 33323 ssh2
[17:05] <linyos> irc channels are kind of like street gangs
[17:06] <linyos> places where personal behavior is unconstrained by traditional social standards
[17:06] <Elly> toad_: Uhh...someone else trying to log in from a different host?
[17:06] <toad_> no, nextgens is allowed
[17:06] <toad_> and i get that message every time
[17:06] <Elly> invalid password?
[17:06] <toad_> before he logs in successfully with a pubkey
[17:06] <Elly> misconfigured SSH client?
[17:06] <Ash-Fox> If someone discusses the anarchy group on freenet... Do you discuss it on #FreeNET or #FreeNET-Chat ?
[17:06] <toad_> no, the other end is using pubkey auth in a script
[17:07] <Elly> oh, does he change his keys a lot?
[17:07] <toad_> Ash-Fox: if someone discusses the what?
[17:07] <toad_> Ash-Fox: in general we don't /kick people unless they are being obnoxious
[17:07] <toad_> if nobody complains, we won't kick them
[17:07] <toad_> unless we complain :)
[17:07] <Elly> dude wow
[17:07] <toad_> just being off topic isn't a capital offence
[17:07] <Elly> I have failed login attempts from 15 hours ago
[17:07] <hobx> The freenet-politics, freenet-chat thing wasn't a great idea. You should make #freenet-devtalk instead
[17:07] <Elly> May 18 03:01:30 filth sshd[17993]: Invalid user michael from 212.67.79.122
[17:07] <Elly> May 18 03:01:32 filth sshd[17995]: Invalid user john from 212.67.79.122
[17:07] <Elly> May 18 03:01:33 filth sshd[17997]: Invalid user david from 212.67.79.122
[17:07] <Elly> May 18 03:01:34 filth sshd[17999]: Invalid user paul from 212.67.79.122
[17:07] <Elly> May 18 03:01:36 filth sshd[18005]: Invalid user angel from 212.67.79.122
[17:07] <Elly> May 18 03:01:38 filth sshd[18009]: Invalid user pgsql from 212.67.79.122
[17:08] <toad_> Elly: just some worm scanning you
[17:08] <Elly> /etc/ssh/sshd_config <--- your friend
[17:08] <Elly> I know toad
[17:08] <Elly> it's really sad
[17:08] <Elly> heh
[17:08] <toad_> Elly: your passwords are good, right? at least the ones that are allowed from Outside are?
[17:08] <greycat> I'm rather surprised that sort of thing didn't happen sooner.
[17:08] <Elly> they all are
[17:08] <Elly> min length 9, mixed upper/lower/numerics
[17:08] <Elly> root's has symbols in too and is 22 chars
[17:09] <greycat> heh
[17:09] <Elly> only my user account and my other user account can log in remotely
[17:09] * Ash-Fox actually has a sshd server setup on port 22 on his server that doesn't actually let you login... real ssh port is on another port, deters the scriptkiddies though :P
[17:09] <Elly> (the other one isn't part of wheel so I use that for remote logins almost always)
[17:09] <Elly> brb
[17:09] <greycat> Ash-Fox: a honeypot?
[17:10] <Ash-Fox> a honeypot would make statistics off it... I don't
[17:11] <toad_> freenet-china.org is back up
[17:12] <toad_> http://wikiserver.freenethelp.org:14741/SpecDocs
[17:12] <toad_> newsbyte pieced together from mailing list posts (he did something useful yay...)
[17:12] <Ash-Fox> First chinese site I see that doesn't have animated gifs on it
[17:12] <toad_> it's probably run by the chinese govt though ;)
[17:13] <Ash-Fox> (I used to provide free webhosting, you won't believe how many chinese people stuck animated gifs everywhere.. not to mention strange javascript that made animated images float around on the screen)
[17:14] <linyos> but their movies aren't any good, so what use are they to me
[17:14] <spaetz> Ash-Fox, fox fake ssh server sounds great
[17:14] <spaetz> might try that myself
[17:17] * spaetz (~spaetz@217-162-196-163.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit ()
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[17:17] <toad_> Ash-Fox: can you read chinese?
[17:18] <Ash-Fox> Not at all... But I'll tell you how the chinese communicated with me... They used bablefish... Trust me some of the stuff I received in my mail was hilarious :P
[17:18] <Elly> heh yeah
[17:18] <Elly> I need a honeypot SSH server
[17:19] <Elly> when you try to connect with v2, it demands v1, and vice versa
[17:19] * Ash-Fox will never forget the e-mail that began with "hello dominant male"
[17:20] <linyos> i can say ni hao and xie xie
[17:20] <linyos> it's easy with my huge IQ
[17:21] <Ash-Fox> One guy was nice enough to give me access to the tencent QQ network (Instant messaging network that is pretty much sealed against foreigners)
[17:21] <spaetz_> hobx: you are right there shoulf be a freenet-devtalk instead ;)
[17:23] <Elly> linyos: And you're so modest, too
[17:24] <linyos> xie xie
[17:24] <hobx> this channel has a long history as a social place, trying to enforce devel only all of a sudden sucks.
[17:24] <hobx> If a devel channel was created, I would respect it.
[17:25] <Elly> hey toad
[17:25] <Elly> fight the power!
[17:25] <spaetz_> *sigh* back to dissertation correction mode
[17:25] * Elly goes afk studying
[17:25] * spaetz_ is now known as spaetz
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[17:36] <Elly> wo0tage
[17:36] <Elly> $ ls -l /bin/su
[17:36] <Elly> -rwsr-x--- 1 root wheel 24452 Feb 23 15:43 /bin/su
[17:45] <spaetz> Elly: what's the prob with your su?
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[17:46] * greycat (rfc1413@wooledge.org) Quit ("This time the bullet cold rocked ya / A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika")
[17:47] <Elly> there is no problem with it
[17:47] <Elly> if there was I'd fix it
[17:47] <linyos> unix 1z teh pr0bl3m
[17:49] <toad_> hobx: I don't try to enforce devel only
[17:50] <toad_> hobx: but if people complain, then I will threaten them
[17:50] <toad_> especially if they're unusually obnoxious like mikeeusa usually is
[17:52] <spaetz> :) unsually obnoxious is a kind description
[17:55] <toad_> :|
[18:01] <linyos> constrained broadcast is fine as long as a copy of the document is always within range
[18:02] <linyos> that accomplished, your network capacity equals the aggregate storage within your broadcast range
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[18:48] <linyos> formula for hash size
[18:48] <linyos> bits = documents + hashes + collisions
[18:48] <linyos> 2^documents = document capacity
[18:48] <linyos> 2^hashes = infeasible number of hashes for an attacker to compute
[18:48] <linyos> 2^collisions = maximum acceptable number of collisions
[18:57] <linyos> err, documents + hashes - collisions
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[19:07] <linyos> here's a freenet thought
[19:08] <linyos> say you're a user. you're interested in a set of blocks
[19:08] <linyos> various blocks get routed through your node all the time
[19:08] <linyos> so keep track of the blocks you're interested in, and you might get it for free.
[19:08] <linyos> without even making a request.
[19:09] <spaetz> linyos: passive requests?
[19:09] <linyos> could call it that
[19:09] <spaetz> unlikely to pass through, isn't it
[19:09] <spaetz> ?
[19:10] <linyos> depends on the popularity
[19:10] <spaetz> if its very popular it's near us anyway
[19:10] <spaetz> so what do you gain by not making an active request?
[19:11] <linyos> if you queue up thirty movie downloads, that's a huge amount of data. it could take days to iterate through the block list and download each one.
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[19:11] <linyos> during that time, a block you really want might just pass through your node without being cached.
[19:12] <linyos> or a block you want might be in your own store, but it gets evicted.
[19:12] <linyos> because the node has no idea that you want it until you make the request.
[19:13] <linyos> it is a pretty simple change to the node's block-requesting strategy.
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[19:17] <linyos> totally unrelated point: splitfiles compensate for freenet's unreliability by allowing for some percentage of failed block requests.
[19:17] <linyos> but if the splitfile metadata itself is inserted as one block, that block is not secure against the X% failure probability
[19:18] <linyos> so what do you do?
[19:19] <linyos> logically the URI would have to include multiple block identifiers, so that the probability of all blocks failing is small.
[19:19] <linyos> in effect, encoding a splitfile into the URI.
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[19:50] <toad_> linyos: the metadata is more popular so it's wider distributed => more reliable
[19:51] <toad_> linyos: FEC splitfiles are needed because if they weren't FEC, you'd need to get EVERY CHUNK
[19:51] <toad_> which is highly unlikely if you even have a 1% chance of failure of a given block
[19:51] <linyos> i'm not questioning the need for FEC
[19:52] <linyos> and i'm not taking any bets that metadata is so reliable.
[19:52] <linyos> even if it's popular.
[19:52] <toad_> bbl tomorrow probably
[19:52] <linyos> good night.
[19:52] <toad_> linyos: if freenet works then the metadata should be retrievable
[19:52] <toad_> bbl
[19:52] <spaetz> night
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[21:25] <toad_> sims going well...
[21:25] <toad_> bbl zzz
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
