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[8:49] <hobx_> Oh.... If ever a body suffered so!
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[13:42] <toad_> what does a continual mains hum on the telephone mean?
[13:43] <toad_> some amateur idiot doing an analog wiretap, maybe?
[13:43] <toad_> except this is cable phone, which makes it incredibly unlikely
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[14:05] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/multi-whacky-graph-tsuccess-new.png
[14:05] <toad_> not too bad
[14:05] <toad_> i need to check the sim nodes
[14:05] <toad_> maybe i can kill some
[14:06] <toad_> i have a stack of ideas for improving it
[14:06] <toad_> including a new improved gravity-based estimator
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[14:13] <toad_> (inverse square isn't that slow if it's in floating point)
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[15:54] <dopeic> hey can anyone help me, for some question about the routing in freenet?
[15:54] <dopeic> do freenet use root servers like ipv4 internet does today ?
[15:55] <FallingBuzzar1> Dopeic: no
[15:55] * FallingBuzzar1 is now known as FallingBuzzard
[15:56] <dopeic> do you have any tech webpages, you can refer me to? that shows how the routing is handeld?
[15:56] <dopeic> I thougt it used just as a ipv6 layer ?
[15:56] <FallingBuzzard> All docs are on freenetproject.org
[15:57] <FallingBuzzard> No Freenet is a routing engine that stores within itself and caches the data close to anyplace that is requesting it.
[15:57] <FallingBuzzard> All while being anonymouse
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[16:00] <dopeic> can I use servers on freenet? like an irc server?
[16:02] <FallingBuzzard> There is an interface to run other applications on top of Freenet. I think someone created a streaming radio interface a while back. There is a message board called Frost that some people currently use. Most people use the web interface and use it like a big distributed anonymous internet.
[16:04] <FallingBuzzard> You can publish files and pages to Freenet and other people can view them. No one will know who published it and No one will know who is viewing it.
[16:04] <FallingBuzzard> Everything is distributed and encrypted.
[16:07] <cbreak> freenet has a high latencity, which is not usefull for irc.
[16:07] <dopeic> FallingBuzzard yeah but, I want to now if I can static distribute stuff, that are bound to a server.
[16:08] <dopeic> or does it haft to be shared in the nods?
[16:08] <cbreak> search for iip or i2p if you want irc and other low latencity services.
[16:08] <cbreak> dopeic: no.
[16:08] <dopeic> cbreak cant that be patched, so it takes more direct route to a irc server?
[16:08] <cbreak> no.
[16:08] <cbreak> it would be insanely stupid.
[16:08] <FallingBuzzard> Nothing on Freenet is static. It is just a really big cache.
[16:09] <cbreak> freenets anonymity is based on the fact that you can't tell what data is on which server.
[16:09] <dopeic> k but cant I make a route for one server that is static?
[16:09] <cbreak> if you could, you wouldn't be anonymous.
[16:09] <cbreak> dopeic: no.
[16:09] <FallingBuzzard> No. You can't decide on any route.
[16:10] <cbreak> why would anyone want that anyway=
[16:10] <dopeic> but how does a server with like bittorent files, stay up to date then ?
[16:10] <cbreak> not neccessary.
[16:11] <dopeic> cbreak well its still secure, if the traffic travels true some route first, before it hits it.
[16:11] <cbreak> you insert stuff into freenet, and it stays there until it falls of.
[16:11] <cbreak> dopeic: if you know the target, it isn't secure.
[16:12] <dopeic> well if the traffic bounces around first, it should be pritty secure?
[16:13] <gregh_> eventually, some node will have to know where to find your server
[16:13] <cbreak> no. if I know where you want to go, it doesn't matter if you are invisible during travel :)
[16:13] <dopeic> if it got a high traffic load, it should be pritty hard to find the source that is connecting to the server.
[16:13] <gregh_> what you are describing sounds more like a web anonymizer
[16:14] <dopeic> ohh humm
[16:14] <FallingBuzzard> dopeic: It creates a hash of the file you are inserting, encrypts it and sends it to the best place to find data that is similar to that hash
[16:15] <dopeic> how does it keep up-dated on, say like webpages?
[16:15] <FallingBuzzard> No one really knows where that "best place" for that data really is. It moves around as files are requested creating a new "best place"
[16:15] <FallingBuzzard> You publish a new page
[16:15] <FallingBuzzard> There are features that can point to pages that change on a regular basis
[16:15] <cbreak> you insert a new version under a new key (edition based) or into a new date subspace (dbr)
[16:17] <dopeic> k how is the requestion done, if I cant request a static adress for a webpages?
[16:17] <dopeic> say like a newspage?
[16:17] <cbreak> no.
[16:17] <cbreak> but you can generate a private public SSK key
[16:17] <cbreak> pair
[16:17] * gregh_ is now known as gregh
[16:18] <cbreak> only the owner of the private key can insert into the keyspace, but everyone with the knowledge of the public key can read it.
[16:18] <dopeic> k can I surf with my web-browser in freenet?
[16:18] <cbreak> only over fproxy
[16:19] <cbreak> if your node is running, connect to localhost:8888
[16:19] <cbreak> (default settings)
[16:19] <dopeic> oh :)
[16:19] <dopeic> but how do I as a client request a webpages, if I dont got any static adress to surf to ?
[16:19] <FallingBuzzard> There are Freenet indexes available on localhost:8888
[16:19] <cbreak> you must know a key.
[16:20] <cbreak> some are available on the freenet main page.
[16:20] <FallingBuzzard> When people publish pages, they send the key to the page to an index if they want.
[16:20] <cbreak> others are found on frost.
[16:21] <dopeic> k but dosent the freenet use ipv6 protocol, that is wath makes me confused?
[16:21] <cbreak> no.
[16:21] <cbreak> it can use ipv4 or ipv6.
[16:21] <dopeic> Description: Client to configure an IPv6 tunnel to freenet6
[16:21] <dopeic> when I run emerge -s freenet
[16:22] <dopeic> k
[16:22] <cbreak> you can use a tunnel to acces your local freenet web interface :)
[16:22] <cbreak> but the inter node communication uses tcp over ipv4 afaik.
[16:22] <dopeic> k so I can use a tunnel over the freenet network, to axx a static webpages?
[16:22] <greycat> Freenet and freenet6 are two completely separate things
[16:22] <dopeic> k
[16:22] <greycat> the various "xxx County Freenet" dial-up BBSes from the 1990s are yet another thing with the same thing...
[16:22] <cbreak> dopeic: you can't tunnel over freenet. freenet is a storage platform.
[16:23] <greycat> s/same thing/same name/
[16:23] <greycat> cbreak: but freenet6 is an ipv4-to-ipv6 tunnel
[16:23] <greycat> which has nothing to do with this channel (see #ipv6)
[16:23] <cbreak> hmm... they could use more creative names...
[16:23] <rah> speaking of v6
[16:23] <dopeic> ohh sorry, gues I must got confused sorry about that.
[16:23] <greycat> Ian *knew* the name "Freenet" was already in use for a couple other things when he chose it...
[16:24] <rah> when will/does freenet support ipv6?
[16:24] <cbreak> afaik the next freenet will use udp. hm...
[16:25] <rah> udp operates over ipv4 or ipv6
[16:25] <rah> will it support udp over ipv6?
[16:26] <rah> if not, I may have to do some hacking.. :)
[16:26] <dopeic> rah that sounds really intressting to me :)
[16:27] <rah> ditto
[16:28] <dopeic> because routes can be defined in ipv6 :)
[16:29] <cbreak> dopeic: doesn't help.
[16:29] <cbreak> because routers can't pharse freenet traffic.
[16:30] <dopeic> humm any ide how I can have a ircd server on a freenet network?
[16:30] <cbreak> you can't.
[16:30] <cbreak> unless you can live with a latency in the magnitude of minutes or hours.
[16:31] <greycat> Freenet is a pure file storage/retrieval system.
[16:31] <dopeic> but why cant ivp6 support be implemented?
[16:31] <greycat> there are distantly-related projects to do anonymous IRC, though
[16:31] <cbreak> like I said before: search for iip or i2p for more real time oriented anonymous networks.
[16:31] <dopeic> k
[16:31] <greycat> I2P is the one that's still active, right?
[16:31] <cbreak> I think so.
[16:32] <cbreak> IIP surely isn't :)
[16:32] <cbreak> why would ipv6 support be that important?
[16:32] <cbreak> ip is just a transport layer.
[16:32] <greycat> As I understand it, I2P is more of a general-purpose anonymous transport layer, on top of which one can run IRC or a file-sharing system or whatever.
[16:33] <dopeic> I want to make a more anonymous internet, but I want also static servers to be avable :)
[16:33] <dopeic> like chat servers ect..
[16:33] <greycat> well, as we've said, Freenet doesn't aim for that.
[16:33] <dopeic> but with crypted, traffic and route nodes that ignore peering agrements that isps uses
[16:33] <dopeic> to get speed
[16:34] <dopeic> yeah already reading up on i2p
[16:34] <dopeic> big thanxs for all your help :)
[16:34] <dopeic> and advice
[16:35] <cbreak> glad to help :)
[16:38] <rah> cbreak: NATting is not an issue with v6
[16:38] <rah> (obviously)
[16:38] <rah> hence, it is good
[16:40] <rah> the computer I'm sat at is my workstation, which lies behind my internet firewall/router
[16:40] <cbreak> people will still use nat. if only to get a private address space for security.
[16:40] <rah> it is globally addressable with ipv6
[16:40] <rah> sure
[16:40] <rah> but that's people for you :)
[16:43] <dopeic> btw do freenet use bitorrent files?
[16:43] <dopeic> to download the information
[16:43] <greycat> no, freenet predates bittorrent by many years
[16:43] <rah> O_o
[16:44] <dopeic> can it handel ultipla downloadings and build up the file? as torrents files?
[16:44] <cbreak> freenet is key based.
[16:44] <greycat> yes, large files are split into chunks which are distributed across the network
[16:44] <greycat> you will (at least, one hopes) download many chunks in parallel
[16:44] <cbreak> bigger files are split into multiple keys, which can be downloaded at the same time, from different places in the network.
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[17:10] <dopeic> 2P initially began in Feb 2003 as a proposed modification to freenet to allow it to use alternate transports
[17:10] <dopeic> does this mean i2p supports freenet?
[17:10] <dopeic> or the caching of files ?
[17:10] <greycat> did you finish reading?
[17:11] <dopeic> naah still reading up about the tech stuff
[17:11] <dopeic> but it dident say, clearly if its just a modification, or does it allow support of freenet.
[17:12] <dopeic> As I understand its more of a direct communication, then storage.
[17:12] <greycat> I2PTunnel is currently used to let people run their own anonymous website ("eepsite") by running a normal webserver and pointing an I2PTunnel 'server' at it, which people can access anonymously over I2P with a normal web browser by running an I2PTunnel HTTP proxy ("eepproxy"). In addition, we use the same technique to run an anonymous IRC network (where the IRC server is hosted anonymously, and standard IRC clients use an I2PTunnel to contact it). There are
[17:12] <cbreak> i2p is completely independent of freenet.
[17:12] * greycat wonders where that got chopped.
[17:13] <greycat> in any case, it's on the very first page on the very first google result for "I2P"
[17:13] <dopeic> oh im raeding in i2p.net/how_intro
[17:15] * Hory (~Miranda@82.78.27.85) Quit ("CyberLore.net - Recommendations on the best games, freeware and websites.")
[17:18] <greycat> heh, "militant grade anonymity"
[17:20] <dopeic> well it uses, a group of main hubs, and bounces true there. So sniffing the hubs aint so hard.
[17:20] <dopeic> all users near ixp points, will automaticly become hubs then, so doubt that its so mutch extreme security. but it seems to work, bether usual www traffic.
[17:21] <dopeic> like having 20hubs before an ixp point :)
[17:22] <dopeic> does freenet and i2p use the same proxy?
[17:22] <dopeic> eeproxy or wath it was caled?
[17:24] <greycat> no. they don't share anything.
[17:24] <sleon|tuX> how is udp port going on?
[17:24] <greycat> you'd have to ask toad_ and he's idle 3 hours...
[17:24] <sleon|tuX> greycat, have you heard something?
[17:25] <sleon|tuX> greycat, how is freenet performance?
[17:25] <sleon|tuX> greycat, is it slower now then 3 months before?
[17:25] <sleon|tuX> or quicker?
[17:26] <greycat> hard to say. probably not much change in the last 3 months.
[17:27] <greycat> my site inserts usually work on the first try unless I'm reinserting the *whole* site (--delete on my FCP client), in which case there are still annoying unexplained cases where a single key insertion hangs for hours and has to be killed
[17:29] <sleon|tuX> hmm
[17:29] <sleon|tuX> greycat, i was not in freenet for a long time
[17:30] <sleon|tuX> i am waiting for udp port
[17:30] <sleon|tuX> to be completed
[17:31] <greycat> an interesting side note is that my data store recently passed the 90% full mark, which means that now it's doing pcaching, rather than simply storing everything it sees.
[17:49] * greycat (rfc1413@wooledge.org) Quit ("This time the bullet cold rocked ya / A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika")
[17:54] <znix> hey to get faster into freenet couldnt someone give me a reference to their node? :)
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[18:11] <sleon|tuX> znix, lol
[18:12] <sleon|tuX> znix, when they give you reference to their node,then they will loose anonymity
[18:18] <znix> hehe yeah..
[18:18] <znix> hmm..
[18:19] <znix> ok i'll wait :)
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[20:37] <Elly> remember toad
[20:37] <Elly> "When anonymity is outlawed, only outlaws will be anonymous."
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[20:44] * Rom|Sleep (Romster@wrnax2-186.dialup.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[21:39] <cbreak> it isn't that bad to be an outlaw as long as noone knows about it...
[21:44] * PuppiesOnAcid (~J@66.232.192.65) has joined #freenet
[21:44] * PuppiesOnAcid` (~J@66.232.192.65) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:17] * PuppiesOnAcid (~J@66.232.192.65) Quit ("Leaving")
[22:33] * Romster (Romster@wrnax2-083.dialup.optusnet.com.au) has joined #freenet
[22:35] * nextgens (~nextgens@jabber.hst.ru) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:45] * sanity (~ian@81-178-81-220.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[23:33] * rah (~rah@cpc1-nott1-3-0-cust206.nott.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
