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[2:53] <MandrakeMonkey> what is the size of query message used by Freenet
[3:13] <hobx> 2 k maybe
[3:13] <hobx> nah, not quite
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[3:43] <MandrakeMonkey> so how much
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[4:55] <nextgens> hi
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[9:23] <sanity_> toad: ping?
[9:24] <sanity_> guess not
[10:01] <toad_> sanity_: sorry, took a few days off for easter
[10:01] <toad_> right now i've just been roped in to an investigation of why we are using 3000 units of electricity a quarter
[10:01] <toad_> :<
[10:01] <sanity_> hi toad
[10:01] <sanity_> 3000?
[10:02] <sanity_> how much does that cost?
[10:02] <toad_> 3,213
[10:02] <toad_> a lot
[10:02] <sanity_> #1 suspect : always-on computers
[10:02] <toad_> ?240
[10:02] <toad_> well, it's not consistent
[10:02] <toad_> that's the wierd thing
[10:02] <sanity_> hmmm
[10:02] <toad_> last quarter we had nothing like that much.. we think
[10:02] * toad_ is going to check that though
[10:03] <sanity_> apparently mobile phone chargers can cause problems though
[10:03] <toad_> really? hmmm
[10:03] <toad_> we have some measuring thingies...
[10:04] <sanity_> measuring thingies?
[10:04] <sanity_> so it was ??240 for 3 months?
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[10:05] <toad_> ?240 for electric for 105 days
[10:05] <sanity_> ours worked out to about ??80/month, which is a lot, but both Janie and I work from home which probably explains it
[10:07] <toad_> servalan alone is 110W continuous... works out to ~ 277u/105d
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[11:40] <GenAw> kikoo les gens
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[13:23] <toad_> sanity_: everyone here effectively works from home.. still 3200u in 105 days is a lot
[13:24] <toad_> i can account for ~ 1500
[13:24] <toad_> that doesn't include lighting, the fridge, the washing machine, the shower, or thomas's computers
[13:25] <toad_> t's computers are rarely on since he works elsewhere (but me, mum and dad all effectively or literally work from home)
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[17:05] <sanity_> extremely tentative good news in MGM vs Grokster :- http://locut.us/~ian/blog/archives/48-MGM-vs-Grokster.html
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[18:20] <Elly> you want to use French international settings on Chinese Windows 2000 with an absurd color scheme, DVORAK keyboard, trackball, 640x480 VGA mode, and huge ugly fonts on your development system so that you remember to bake in the code that adjusts for all these things.
[18:20] <Elly> Then your application will be buff and strong and it will laugh in the face of wimpy problems like people who use commas instead of dots as the decimal. Ha. I eat commas for breakfast, your code will say, with a Russian accent.
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[18:38] <sanity_> Elly: have you been drinking?
[18:39] <Elly> sanity_: Nope, just quoting
[18:39] <sanity_> even worse
[18:40] <sanity_> quoting is a dangerous habbit
[18:40] <sanity_> its rather adictive
[18:40] <hobx> I've been drinking
[18:40] <sanity_> hobx: i hope not, you need every braincell left
[18:40] <hobx> sorry
[18:40] <hobx> I won't do it again
[18:40] <sanity_> hobx: good
[18:41] <sanity_> hobx: also, try not to suddenly move your head in any direction
[18:41] <hobx> until tomorrow
[18:41] <hobx> I think killing off weak braincells makes you smarter
[18:41] * sanity_ is having dinner with larry lessig on saturday
[18:41] <hobx> they just slow things down
[18:41] <sanity_> i have finally managed to convince him that you aren't me
[18:41] <hobx> Tell him I find it unbecoming that he has become an anti-Bush leftist.
[18:42] <hobx> I had to stop reading his blog through the whole election cycle because it was all party politics.
[18:42] <sanity_> well, i think there is method in that madness, we have more braincells when we are 7 month old foetuses than we do at any other point in our lives
[18:42] <sanity_> i have never met a foetus, but i imagine that they aren't all that smart
[18:43] <sanity_> yeah, that was annoying
[18:43] <hobx> Well, it is the only time in mans life that he is trying to get out of a you know what instead of into it. Considering the grief we get from that, perhaps it isn't that stupid...
[18:43] <sanity_> i will be sure to criticise him for becoming embroiled in the left-right political debate (which is a tragic distraction from the real debate - vi versus emacs)
[18:44] <hobx> emacs!
[18:44] <sanity_> hobx: communist!
[18:45] <hobx> It just feels kind of false from somebody who was a republican and clerked for Scalia.
[18:45] <sanity_> i think he was just being naively optimistic that Howard Dean may actually have read and understood his book
[18:46] <sanity_> unfortunately there appears to be a close correlation between idealism and political impotence
[18:46] <hobx> Dean reminded a little too much of Ballmer
[18:47] <hobx> Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats! Democrats!
[18:47] <sanity_> hobx: i think i have persuaded toad to simulate the NGR with fixed connections thing
[18:47] <hobx> I think you got him all excited. Very mean of you!
[18:48] <sanity_> hobx: also, he has asked God to change the laws of mathematics such that it will work
[18:48] <sanity_> hobx: meaning that if it does actually work, neither you nor i will be able to take any credit
[18:48] <hobx> I'm gonna start coding my darknet soon.
[18:48] <sanity_> well, if you are clever you might be able to outsource it to toad
[18:49] <sanity_> and get on with the important task of getting my name on a respected mathematics paper
[18:49] <hobx> all things will have their day.
[18:50] <hobx> no more java.
[18:50] <sanity_> what instead of java?
[18:50] <sanity_> c%
[18:50] <sanity_> um
[18:50] <sanity_> C#
[18:51] <sanity_> wait.... prolog!
[18:51] <hobx> loose the hash!
[18:51] <hobx> use the hash!
[18:51] <sanity_> oh for fuck sake
[18:51] <sanity_> C?
[18:51] <sanity_> are you nuts?
[18:51] <sanity_> what a complete waste of time
[18:51] <sanity_> why C?
[18:51] <hobx> dick in peanut butter. (Fucking nuts)
[18:51] <sanity_> that is like writing a modern mathematical thesis in Latin
[18:52] <hobx> Omnum Somnum Titaltum!
[18:52] <sanity_> i mean, at least write it in a respectable language like Ocaml
[18:52] <sanity_> apparently it compiles ot *very* fast code
[18:52] <sanity_> s/ot/to
[18:52] <hobx> fuck that shit. CS student web dream bullshit.
[18:52] <hobx> Real men use C.
[18:53] <sanity_> real men use assembly
[18:53] <sanity_> smart men use java
[18:53] <hobx> ok.
[18:53] <hobx> semi real men use C.
[18:53] <sanity_> ugh
[18:53] <hobx> People who want to write programs that nobody will use write java.
[18:53] <sanity_> you will spend 5% of your time writing code, and 95% looking for memory leaks
[18:53] <sanity_> hey, people use Eclipse!
[18:54] <sanity_> and we have tricked many people into using Freenet too!
[18:54] <sanity_> so how will your dorknet work?
[18:54] <sanity_> sorry, *dark*net
[18:54] <hobx> Eclipse only works because they wrote libraries in C to do the actual work.
[18:55] <hobx> dorks come in. Square cubes of gelatin come out.
[18:55] <hobx> Simple enough.
[18:55] <sanity_> no, they wrote libraries in C to interface with the OS, as much of the work as possible is Java
[18:55] <sanity_> as is the case with Java itself
[18:55] <sanity_> will it use my ingenious idea to make it scalable?
[18:56] <sanity_> if so, i demand that you call it "IanNet"
[18:56] <sanity_> or "DorkNet" - your choice
[18:56] <hobx> java is a nice language with a platform that sucks buckets of horseshit.
[18:56] <sanity_> i have yet to see a better API
[18:56] <hobx> your ingenious idea was "I thinkw e could figure out something to make this work"
[18:56] <hobx> ?
[18:57] <sanity_> well, my first ingenious idea was that we could exploit people's natural ability to form small-world networks
[18:57] <sanity_> my second idea was that NGR might do this
[18:58] <hobx> I'm safe, because the first was well known to me, and I still don't know exactly what NGR is.
[18:58] <hobx> So there!
[18:58] <hobx> me files a software patent
[18:59] <sanity_> hobx: bet you to it
[18:59] <sanity_> NGR is very simple
[18:59] <sanity_> it does what people do
[18:59] <sanity_> it learns who is good at what, and routes requests on that basis
[19:01] <sanity_> anyhoo, i don't think it had previously occurred to you that we could exploit people's natural ability to form small-world networks to make a scalable darknet - but i suppose i could be wrong about that
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[19:07] <toad_> I got some hard disk problems... uncorrectable errors and short sector reads. i used dd_rescue to make a disk image and then copied it back over the original device. now it works fine, at least, it can read all the disk with no errors. will it cause further problems? Should I try to remove the drive? It will be a major pain to remove the drive for software reasons... (boot device is /dev/hdb1, hdb2 is part of the LVM volume group..
[19:07] <toad_> brb
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[19:09] <toad_> back
[19:09] <toad_> any ideas re the hardware problem i mentioned?
[19:10] * toad_ changes topic to 'http://freenetproject.org | Stable: Upgrade to 5102 | Unstable: 60265 | Channel logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ | #freenet-politics and #freenet-chat are available for offtopic discussions | http://wiki.ffii.org/Cons050307En'
[19:14] <toad_> should i get rid of the hard disk?
[19:14] <toad_> or is it possible that something would cause bad sectors temporarily?
[19:16] <toad_> bbl zzz
[19:24] <jokern> toad_: Could be high temp on the HD. Got the same problems here last summer.
[19:30] <Elly> nfi here
[19:31] <Elly> hehe
[19:31] <Elly> I like Joel on Software
[19:32] <Elly> "The tipping point is where one day you wake up and your market share is 80% instead of 20%."
[19:32] <Elly> toad_: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000052.html
[19:32] <Elly> not really related to freenet, but a good read
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.