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[3:24] <kevloral> g'morning all
[3:24] <TheSeeker> lies!
[3:25] <TheSeeker> it's the middle of the night :P
[3:26] <kevloral> TheSeeker: damn! What am I doing at work then! ;-)
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[6:49] <Lo-Svizzero> anyone here uses freenet with linux?
[6:49] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> Lo-Svizzero: Yes
[6:50] <Lo-Svizzero> i2p_iip, I can't start it, can you help me? (this is a general error on gentoo distros)
[6:51] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> I don't use gentoo, but try pasting your error message (and tell what you do before the message comes).
[6:51] <Lo-Svizzero> k
[6:52] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> On my gentoo box, for some reason it never starts write unless I do "/etc/init.d/freenet start" from /var/freenet... otherwise it tries to create a new datastore and such in the current folder and ends up going stupid
[6:52] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> On my gentoo box, for some reason it never starts write unless I do "/etc/init.d/freenet start" from /var/freenet... otherwise it tries to create a new datastore and such in the current folder and ends up going stupid
[6:52] <Lo-Svizzero> java freenet-ext.jar
[6:52] <Lo-Svizzero> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: freenet-ext/jar
[6:53] <kevloral> Lo-Svizzero: java -jar freenet-ext.jar
[6:53] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> You should be doing "/etc/init.d/freenet start"
[6:53] <Lo-Svizzero> * Starting Freenet now...
[6:53] <Lo-Svizzero> * freenet-ext.jar not found. It can be downloaded from
[6:53] <Lo-Svizzero> * http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-ext.jar [ !! ]
[6:53] <Lo-Svizzero> wait a sec
[6:54] <Lo-Svizzero> I tried to emerge freenet and to install without emerging
[6:54] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> That made no sense
[6:55] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I can tell you exactly what to do for a gentoo box in a few steps... would you like me to?
[6:56] <Lo-Svizzero> ok
[6:56] <Lo-Svizzero> tkx :)
[6:56] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> let's start from the beginning, so 'emerge -C freenet'
[6:57] <Lo-Svizzero> k
[6:57] <Lo-Svizzero> * Starting Freenet now... [ !! ]
[6:58] <Lo-Svizzero> this is my main error
[6:58] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> you're getting ahead of yourself
[6:58] <Lo-Svizzero> it don't say anythin else, but let me follow your guide
[6:58] <Lo-Svizzero> plz continue
[6:59] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> once it's uninstalled through emerge -C, do 'emerge freenet' to install it fresh
[6:59] <Lo-Svizzero> ok
[6:59] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> this sets you up with a very old version of freenet that isn't configured right
[6:59] <Lo-Svizzero> k
[7:00] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> you need to know where stuff goes.... /usr/lib/freenet is where your jars end up... you don't really need to worry about this...
[7:00] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> /var/freenet is where all your freenet data goes
[7:00] <Lo-Svizzero> should I run ebuild /usr/portage/net-p2p/freenet/freenet-0.5.2.1-r8.ebuild config?
[7:00] <Lo-Svizzero> ok
[7:00] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> eventually
[7:01] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> /etc/freenet.conf is your config, and /etc/conf.d/freenet is where freenet start up settings are
[7:01] <Lo-Svizzero> k
[7:02] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> before you get things going on your own, you'll want to carefully edit those files, changing only what you absolutely have to
[7:02] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> make sure you leave it using /var/freenet
[7:02] <Lo-Svizzero> k
[7:03] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Once you're configured, 'cd /var/freenet'.. if you haven't run freenet yet, there won't be much, but eventually you'll have a 'store' directory where your data store is... you can 'du -h store' to see roughly how much is htere...
[7:04] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> now you'll want to do 'ebuild /usr/portage/net-p2p/freenet/freenet-0.5.2.1-r8.ebuild config' to update to the newest version of freenet... you'll do this and restart freenet whenever a new build comes out
[7:04] <Lo-Svizzero> k
[7:04] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I can never remember this exactly so I shoved it into a script I called updateFreenet.sh, which I keep in the /var/freenet directory... this is of course optional
[7:05] <Lo-Svizzero> after these steps can I start freenet?
[7:05] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Once you've edited your configs and updated, you'll want to start freenet with '/etc/init.d/freenet start'
[7:05] <Lo-Svizzero> k, now I'm updating
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[7:06] <Lo-Svizzero> Setting: listenPort
[7:06] <Lo-Svizzero> The port to listen for incoming FNP (Freenet Node Protocol) connections on.
[7:06] <Lo-Svizzero> ERROR: Resource name [freenet/support/CPUInformation/libjcpuid-x86-linux.so] was not found
[7:06] <Lo-Svizzero> WARN: Native CPUID library jcpuid not loaded - will not be able to read CPU information using CPUID
[7:07] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> If freenet doesn't start, the most likely cause is that you don't have java set up right
[7:07] <Lo-Svizzero> look, this are the errors during the ebuild config
[7:07] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> the error and warning are fine
[7:07] <Lo-Svizzero> ah k
[7:08] <Lo-Svizzero> I tried to stare freenet, same error
[7:08] <Lo-Svizzero> in the past I tried with blackhawk sdk
[7:08] <Lo-Svizzero> and with java sun sdk too
[7:08] <Lo-Svizzero> ever the same error
[7:08] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> See if there's anything helpful in the log files in /var/freenet
[7:09] <Lo-Svizzero> /usr/bin/start-freenet.sh: line 7: freenet.node.Main: command not found
[7:09] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Have you done java-config to set system jvm?
[7:09] <Lo-Svizzero> yes
[7:09] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> k
[7:10] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> poking through logs?
[7:10] <Lo-Svizzero> yes
[7:10] <Lo-Svizzero> only message was:
[7:10] <Lo-Svizzero> /usr/bin/start-freenet.sh: line 7: freenet.node.Main: command not found
[7:11] <Lo-Svizzero> how can I test if my java config is good?
[7:11] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> java -v
[7:12] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> wait
[7:12] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Do 'env-update' then '/etc/init.d/freenet restart'
[7:13] <Lo-Svizzero> * Starting Freenet now... [ !! ]
[7:13] <Lo-Svizzero> same error :(
[7:14] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> do 'java -version'
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[7:14] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> won't be suprised if it fails
[7:14] <Lo-Svizzero> java version "1.4.2-01"
[7:14] <Lo-Svizzero> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build Blackdown-1.4.2-01)
[7:14] <Lo-Svizzero> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build Blackdown-1.4.2-01, mixed mode)
[7:14] <Lo-Svizzero> hmm
[7:14] <Lo-Svizzero> I don't understand what I did wrong
[7:15] <Lo-Svizzero> I thing the ebuild is shitty :P
[7:15] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> nifty... (64bit... don't /think/ that should be a problem)...
[7:15] <Lo-Svizzero> on my laptop I have the same problem
[7:15] <Lo-Svizzero> i386 arch
[7:15] <Lo-Svizzero> ..
[7:15] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I don't know yet either... the setup is weird... I've had it working so long I need to think about what I had to do
[7:16] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> echo $JAVA
[7:16] <Lo-Svizzero> hmm java is not set
[7:17] <Lo-Svizzero> how should I set the JAVA variable to?
[7:17] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> if you look in /usr/bin/start-freenet.sh, you'll see '${JAVA} ${JAVA_ARGS} freenet.....'
[7:17] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> it should be set by the files in /etc/env.d
[7:17] <Lo-Svizzero> fuck env :P
[7:18] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> in the start-freenet.sh script, the JAVA and JAVA_ARGS are coming up empty
[7:18] <Lo-Svizzero> /usr/bin/start-freenet.sh: line 7: freenet.node.Main: command not found
[7:18] <Lo-Svizzero> that's way it can't set the $JAVA variable
[7:18] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> No, the script is trying to run 'freenet.node.Main' as a program because JAVA and JAVA_ARGS are blank
[7:19] <Lo-Svizzero> yes..
[7:19] <Lo-Svizzero> ok
[7:19] <Lo-Svizzero> now let us set those variables
[7:19] <Lo-Svizzero> how should I set it?
[7:19] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> looking...
[7:20] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> the /etc/init.d/freenet script should be figuring them out and setting them
[7:20] <Lo-Svizzero> found only 20java entry in the env.d dir
[7:21] <Lo-Svizzero> i2p_iip, can't you look at your box how those vars are set?
[7:21] <Lo-Svizzero> just to have an idea
[7:21] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I am
[7:21] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I am
[7:22] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> it figures out the jvm by running the command 'java-config --java'
[7:22] <Lo-Svizzero> JAVA="$(java-config --java)"
[7:22] <Lo-Svizzero> yes
[7:22] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> does that command work when you try it by hand?
[7:22] <Lo-Svizzero> /opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.2.01/bin/java
[7:22] <Lo-Svizzero> yes it works how you can see
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[7:23] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> do you have a line that says "export JAVA JAVA_ARGS CLASSPATH"?
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[7:24] <Lo-Svizzero> yes
[7:24] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> md5sum /etc/init.d/freenet
[7:25] <Lo-Svizzero> f504649c326b9388901c0bf381a3c48e /etc/init.d/freenet
[7:26] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> something is different with yours
[7:26] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> but I can't say that I haven't edited mine
[7:26] <Lo-Svizzero> bash-2.05b# /opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.2.01/bin/java /usr/lib/freenet/freenet-ext.jar
[7:26] <Lo-Svizzero> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: /usr/lib/freenet/freenet-ext/jar
[7:27] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> hmm
[7:27] <Lo-Svizzero> I tried to run it manually
[7:27] <d-ArkAngel> freenet-ext is a set of additional classes, it is not freenet it's self.
[7:27] <d-ArkAngel> also to run a jar don't you need to use the -jar command line option?
[7:28] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> If you have to do that, things are definitely broken
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[7:28] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Yeah, but that's moot
[7:28] <Lo-Svizzero> bash-2.05b# /opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.2.01/bin/java -jar /usr/lib/freenet/freenet-ext.jar
[7:28] <Lo-Svizzero> Failed to load Main-Class manifest attribute from
[7:28] <Lo-Svizzero> /usr/lib/freenet/freenet-ext.jar
[7:28] <Lo-Svizzero> bash-2.05b#
[7:29] <d-ArkAngel> [12:30] d-ArkAngel: freenet-ext is a set of additional classes, it is not freenet it's self.
[7:29] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> It's not set up to run that way
[7:29] <Lo-Svizzero> hmm
[7:29] <Lo-Svizzero> bash-2.05b$ cd freenet
[7:29] <Lo-Svizzero> bash-2.05b$ ls
[7:29] <Lo-Svizzero> README freenet-ext.jar
[7:30] <Lo-Svizzero> I downloaded freenet from the web
[7:30] <Lo-Svizzero> that's all I found on the gunzipped file
[7:30] <Lo-Svizzero> d-ArkAngel, if freenet-ext isn't the main file, wich then is it?
[7:31] <d-ArkAngel> you're clearly missing some bits :-)
[7:31] <Lo-Svizzero> lol :P
[7:31] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> But for the sake of argument... '/opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.2.01/bin/java -cp /usr/lib/freenet/freenet.jar:/usr/lib/freenet/freenet-ext.jar:$CLASSPATH freenet.node.Main -p /etc/freenet.conf > /var/freenet/freenet.stdout.log 2> /var/freenet/freenet.stderr.log &'
[7:32] <d-ArkAngel> try getting this...
[7:32] <d-ArkAngel> http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-latest.tgz
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[7:32] <d-ArkAngel> that should have all the files in it (we're talking linux here right?)
[7:32] <Lo-Svizzero> d-ArkAngel, yes
[7:32] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> already done.. gentoo has it's own way of handling freenet, but something is going funky
[7:32] <Lo-Svizzero> i2p_iip, I try to isntall it manually
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[7:33] <Lo-Svizzero> d-ArkAngel, are you sure that I should find more than only these 2 files in the zip?
[7:33] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Well, it's actually 4:30am and I have to be in class at 11am... I was supposed to be in bed over an hour ago
[7:33] <Lo-Svizzero> i2p_iip, :P
[7:33] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> it's FillaMent BTW
[7:33] <Lo-Svizzero> thx for your help
[7:33] <Lo-Svizzero> where are you from
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[7:34] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Sorry I didn't get you running... Ohio originally but I live in Southern California.... your problem has to do with the path to the java... hey wait
[7:35] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> dude... edit your /usr/bin/start-freenet.sh.... take out the ${JAVA} and ${JAVA_ARGS}... put in '/opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.2.01/bin/java -cp /usr/lib/freenet/freenet.jar:/usr/lib/freenet/freenet-ext.jar:$CLASSPATH'
[7:36] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Should read '/opt/blackdown-jdk-1.4.2.01/bin/java -cp /usr/lib/freenet/freenet.jar:/usr/lib/freenet/freenet-ext.jar:$CLASSPATH freenet.node.Main -p /etc/freenet.conf.......'
[7:36] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> this isn't the proper /gentoo/ way to do it, but should get you over the problem
[7:36] <d-ArkAngel> the tgz version of the install contains 9 files
[7:37] <d-ArkAngel> freenet-ext.jar, preconfig.sh, seednodes.ref, start-freenet.sh, update.sh, freenet.jar, README, seednodes.ref.bz2, stop-freenet.sh
[7:37] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> if you do the above, you should be able to /etc/init.d/freenet start
[7:38] <d-ArkAngel> what version comes with gentoo? 5100?
[7:38] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> 542 I think, but gentoo has scripts to update you to the newest version
[7:39] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Lo- has already updated
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[7:39] <d-ArkAngel> well it deffinatly needs the updates, it needs to be 5099 or 5100 or it will not be able to join the network.
[7:39] <d-ArkAngel> once you get it running that is :-)
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[7:40] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Well, some exported env vars aren't making it to the script that starts freenet... I just told him screw the env vars and hard code the path to java and the classpath in there
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[7:42] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Fuck I need to be in bed a long time ago... good luck
[7:42] <d-ArkAngel> night
[7:44] <Ash-Fox> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041209&mode=classic
[7:52] <hobx_> fluck a duck a day
[7:55] <Lo-Svizzero> night i2p_iip
[7:55] <hobx_> do irc bots dream of ascii sheep?
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[7:57] <Lo-Svizzero> is it normal that freenet is very very slow
[7:58] <hobx_> yes
[7:58] <Lo-Svizzero> it's impossible to use
[7:59] <Lo-Svizzero> does freenet have something interesting about security?
[8:01] <d-ArkAngel> people can't be tracked for either publishing or reading articles on freenet
[8:02] <d-ArkAngel> and freesites once posted are permenant and can't be "taken down" by other people.
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[8:03] <Lo-Svizzero> d-ArkAngel, good, but I meant if I can find something interesting about security topic on it
[8:04] <d-ArkAngel> well there's quite a bit of description of how freenet works, and what it's for on freenetproject.org
[8:05] <kevloral> Lo-Svizzero: yes, it is incredibly slow at the beginning. However, it improves a lot the longer the node has been running.
[8:07] <Lo-Svizzero> do I find also information about e.g. kernel programming and other similiar stuff
[8:07] <Lo-Svizzero> or better kernel hacking
[8:08] <kevloral> Lo-Svizzero: sorry, I don't know.
[8:09] <Lo-Svizzero> ah k, but is it a big network?
[8:11] <kevloral> Lo-Svizzero: no way to really know. I have found a message on tech about it: http://dodo.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/2004-March/000264.html
[8:12] <d-ArkAngel> based on the numbers of nodes in the seednodes file toad recons about 10,000 nodes.
[8:13] <Lo-Svizzero> kewl, but doesn't exists a search engine like google for freenet?
[8:13] * kevloral is now known as kevlAway
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[8:15] <d-ArkAngel> it's impossible to provide interactive code via freenet. so there's no "search engine"
[8:16] <d-ArkAngel> tho FIND and the other such sites do list lots of sites.
[8:16] <d-ArkAngel> because they crawl freenet and list things.
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[8:25] <Lo-Svizzero> d-ArkAngel, more time I spend on freenet and more nodes become visibile to me?
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[8:30] <d-ArkAngel> something like that.
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[8:53] <_6128_> hi
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[9:08] <d-ArkAngel> toad_ : you able to access hardcore ok?
[9:12] <toad_> <d-ArkAngel> based on the numbers of nodes in the seednodes file toad recons about 10,000 nodes. -- not based on that
[9:13] <toad_> <d-ArkAngel> toad_ : you able to access hardcore ok? -- haven't tried yet
[9:13] <toad_> or have i?
[9:13] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[9:13] <d-ArkAngel> that's between you and your god :-)
[9:13] <toad_> hmm it needs a password
[9:14] <d-ArkAngel> I mailed you one.
[9:14] <toad_> in
[9:14] <d-ArkAngel> you can change it once you get in tho.
[9:15] <toad_> okay, i've uploaded my cert
[9:15] <toad_> you can blank out the password now
[9:15] <d-ArkAngel> k
[9:17] <d-ArkAngel> you need me to?
[9:18] <toad_> pleas
[9:18] <toad_> e
[9:22] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@acq118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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[9:22] <d-ArkAngel> how's that?
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[9:25] <toad_> [06:32] <setuid> if the whole network is as slow as trying to download freenet-latest, its no wonder I never see connections
[9:25] <toad_> ROFL!
[9:25] <toad_> that's almost worthy of a slashdot: Freenet Is Faster Than Sourceforge!
[9:25] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[9:26] <toad_> [08:35] <kevloral> mmm... that upnplib doesn't detect my router... -- interesting...
[9:29] <toad_> [16:19] <KenMan> hobx_ - so where in the world was you born and raised ?
[9:29] <toad_> [16:29] <KenMan> no response, huh ? it can't be that embarassing, can it ? well, if it is "a factory" or "a service garage" then that might be best kept to yourself, i suppose
[9:29] <toad_> maybe he was found in a box under a pool table... with "ouroboros" written on the side
[9:30] * toad_ happens to know hobx spent a lot of time with diplomatic immunity though, so that may give you a hint
[9:30] <toad_> [16:53] <InsomniaCity> Is Freenet still anonymous even when an attacker can see all network traffic? -- well, ideally :)
[9:31] <toad_> [17:10] <TheSeeker> nothign will stop them from noticing a LOT of traffic and banning ports... though I think freenet chooses one randomly on initial isntall... -- they may be able to block it on the router by the setup bytes...
[9:33] <toad_> [17:21] <jay> id like to meet toad one of these days -- thanks, i'd like to meet jay one of these days
[9:35] <toad_> [19:14] <KenMan> aaagh! well, FunkySim is demonstrating emergent behavior. Unfortunately, that behavior may be "the network as a whole converges on a single point in keyspace" ?:o
[9:35] <toad_> hmmm
[9:35] <toad_> [19:41] <KenMan> a bug, a boo. In my datastores too. Looks like I failed to adequately implement LRU. -- oops!
[9:36] <toad_> [21:32] <nextgens> do you think 'rotating' seednode could help (less overload on these nodes) and lead to a higher success ?
[9:36] <toad_> i'm not convinced
[9:37] <toad_> they're randomly selected on seeding anyway
[9:37] <toad_> [21:37] <KenMan> one thing is for certain - while sims are NOT real-world measurements, he gets much faster feedback on any changes he makes.
[9:37] <toad_> yes
[9:39] * kevlAway is now known as kevloral
[9:40] <kevloral> g'afternoon all
[9:46] <toad_> hi
[9:47] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> toad
[9:48] <hobx_> We used to joke a lot about having diplomatic immunity.
[9:48] <hobx_> It isn't really a license to do whatever you want though. They can't jail you for smoking dope, but they can get your whole family thrown out of the country...
[10:02] <TheSeeker> "You, you have diplomatic immunity. However, your wife and child don't."
[10:09] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> toad should be given a development shell on a computer in another country owned by somebody with diplomatic immunity
[10:11] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> just imagine the political/legal/international/bureaucratic/jackass ramifications of the action
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[10:36] <toad_> heh
[10:36] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> toad, I miss you
[10:37] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> how have you been
[10:37] <toad_> hi gott :)
[10:37] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> I've been helping freenet out behind the scenes
[10:38] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> mostly by wasting jrandom's time instead of yours
[10:38] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> but now I am back with an agenda
[10:38] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> and that agenda is ... to give you a hug *HUG*
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[11:26] <toad_> hmmm
[11:27] <toad_> one thing to test:
[11:27] <toad_> one estimator NGR with the one estimator being simply pSuccess
[11:27] <toad_> that should be a reasonable approximation...
[11:28] <toad_> the other options being 3 estimator (pDNF, tSuccess, tFailure), and 1 estimator (tSuccess, report fixed bignum on failure)
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[11:54] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> toad, I've been using i2p a lot recently, but I'm considering returning to freenet
[11:54] <d-ArkAngel> any reason?
[11:54] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> how stable is freenet ?
[11:55] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> that is, how much progress has been made since I stopped hanging around
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[12:27] <toad_> Michelle: perhaps
[12:27] <toad_> you'd just better try it :)
[12:31] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> well, it takes so long. I'd rather know right now if it is in a rut or not
[12:31] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> it goes in and out of ruts it seems
[12:31] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> I have some content to air if it's not in a rut, I suppose
[12:31] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> btw, does it support java 1.5 yet ?
[12:32] <toad_> the wininstaller had some issues with 1.5
[12:32] <toad_> not sure if they've been fixed yet
[12:33] <i2p_iip> <Michelle> terrible
[12:41] <toad_> the node will run fine with 1.5
[12:42] <toad_> Michelle: many reports are quite positive, many are overwhelmingly negative, as usual :)
[12:42] * kevloral is now known as kevlAway
[12:51] <KenMan> <toad_> one estimator NGR with the one estimator being simply pSuccess -- if you start thinking like that, I may have to get in line behind gott to hug you myself.
[12:58] <KenMan> I think, when running sims, if the average HTL for success holds right at maxHTL/2, then nothing is being learned.
[12:58] <KenMan> I don't know which to hope for: lowering HTL seems to mean learning takes place, but is success goes up AND HTL goes up, that could indicate learning also...
[13:04] <KenMan> if we can agree that DS spec is a byproduct of routing spec, then if similar spec'ed nodes are getting closer to each other, a decreasing HTL would be a good indicator.
[13:04] <KenMan> but, as in real life, nothing is that simple...
[13:06] <KenMan> nevertheless, i think long-term average successful HTL=maxHTL/2 is a bad sign. Especially if it holds true for variable maxHTL. But what do I know ? I'm just guessing at this...
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[13:44] <KenMan> at least the basic FreeNet sim (with DS LRU only) shows each node developing spec, and each node has a different one.
[13:46] <KenMan> also, the spec being 'grown' on each node is more than just a single, simple, attractive point in keyspace, according to the barcodes.
[13:47] <KenMan> i think it is fair to say there is a single dominant point, but there are clearly other, lesser, points as well.
[14:10] <toad_> is this with classical routing?
[14:10] * sanity (~ian@81-178-106-165.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[14:11] <toad_> we want high htl, then you get better storage
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[14:22] <toad_> sanity: hi
[14:23] <toad_> sanity: I suppose you've been completely ignoring my thread with NB, which is unfortunate, because some interesting stuff has come out
[14:23] <toad_> specifically, nodes seem to get a lot more connections when they have local requests, and then lose them again when they are idle
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[14:26] <sanity> interesting
[14:28] <toad_> sanity: I suggest it is a file size issue
[14:30] <toad_> nodes left on the network learn very slowly due to always being transferring huge files
[14:30] <toad_> whereas if you make some requests, it learns faster
[14:32] <toad_> sanity: comments?
[14:32] <sanity> its possible
[14:32] <sanity> i certainly wouldn't assume that its true without more evidence though
[14:33] <sanity> can you think of an experiment to test that theory?
[14:34] <toad_> we could compare a period with lots of local activity to one with no local activity, look at the total number of successes and requests during that time
[14:35] <toad_> using routingSuccessRatio...
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[14:50] <Redb3ard> hey toad
[14:50] <Redb3ard> whats up?
[14:51] * nextgens (~nextgens@d80-170-49-68.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[14:51] <nextgens> something strange is happening on my node :
[14:52] <nextgens> I don't receive nor accept any incoming network connection ...
[14:52] <nextgens> aka my nat is working but nothing goes throw !
[14:53] <nextgens> i'll try to change my hostname/port next time I'll restart my node :/
[14:59] <toad_> port forwarded?
[14:59] <nextgens> yes
[14:59] <toad_> hmmm
[14:59] <nextgens> but it's working ...
[15:00] <toad_> you have outgoing conns?
[15:00] <nextgens> yes
[15:00] <toad_> hmmm
[15:00] <nextgens> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit)36 (0/36/200)
[15:00] <nextgens> nothing in the logfile :/
[15:00] <toad_> you sure incoming works?
[15:00] <nextgens> yes
[15:01] <nextgens> if I telnet on it, it opens and closes when I write something ;-)
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[15:02] <nextgens> it's the first time it does that
[15:03] <nextgens> but my inserts are still going on : 1,1Kb on average :-)
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[15:12] * nextgens restarting my node
[15:12] <nextgens> working :-)
[15:12] <nextgens> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit)41 (5/36/200)
[15:13] <nextgens> toad_> definitly, it was a freenet related problem :(
[15:14] <toad_> nextgens: hmmm
[15:14] <nextgens> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit)47 (11/36/200)
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[15:15] <nextgens> but not that important as a restart fix it ; And here it happened only once...
[15:16] <toad_> maybe it thought it was full up, and rejected connections?
[15:19] * kevlAway is now known as kevloral
[15:20] <kevloral> g'evening all
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[15:47] <KenMan> toad - i'm sort of doing classical routing. It is a simple model - remember the last 45 hits (and insertions) for each peer, then, for an estimate, take the average distance of the 5 closest known keys.
[15:48] <KenMan> it seems to be an approximation, anyway. I mean, it functions.
[15:48] <KenMan> choice of storesize=200, per-peer-memory=45, use 5 sample points, these are arbitrary :(
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[17:29] <kevloral> he, he... upnp works at last (with the azureus code)
[17:32] <KenMan> neat!
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[20:16] <emacse1> anyone in here statistics-foo?
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[22:26] <KenMan> it appears that the most basic FreeNet model I can create results in a specialized key retention. It should be uniform. This may be an artifact of sim parameters (#nodes, peers, HTL, storesize, etc.), but it is not a good sign.
[22:27] <KenMan> I am sorting the net-wide set of keys (after a suitable length of run-time) into buckets of 1024, and there are clear peaks and valleys.
[22:27] <KenMan> but, i am counting each replica of a key in each bucket. Perhaps I should only count a single instance of each unique key...
[22:29] <KenMan> ugh, math wins again (or is that 'murphy'?) ... in both cases I see specialization.
[22:30] <KenMan> so I need to measure the standard deviation of the bucket values, for a sim with fewer peers, and some with many more.
[22:31] <KenMan> Perhaps if enough nodes are used, it all smooths out (fingers crossed)...
[22:38] <KenMan> but, for now, that key-specialization is very clear, and consistent with both methods of tallying :(
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.