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[1:19] <kmag> Anyone here knowledgable about FCP, CHKEndMessages in particular?
[1:20] <salahx> I know a little about it
[1:20] <kmag> So I'm brushing up on my Python...
[1:20] <kmag> writing a freenet spyder
[1:21] <kmag> I get a URIError, Reason=Byte array does not contain a CHKEndMessage
[1:21] <kmag> when I try to get CHK URIs
[1:23] <salahx> is this on insertion or retrieval ?
[1:24] <kmag> my test case is CHK@hdXaxkwZ9rA8-SidT0AN-bniQlgPAwl,XdCDmBuGsd-ulqbLnZ8v~w/GPL.txt
[1:24] <kmag> which is the standard GPL CHK URI that comes up when searches fail
[1:25] <kmag> hmm... I'm thinking maybe the CHK URIs require a terminal "/"
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[1:34] <kmag> ... waiting for the test...
[1:34] <kmag> still no CHKEndMessage
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[1:35] <kmag> Oh, it's a retrieval. I know you asked and I never explicitly responnded
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[2:03] <kmag> hmm.. after extracting the class files from freenet.jar and freenet-ext.jar, grep isn't able to find the string CHKEndMessage
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[5:10] <kevloral> g'morning all
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[6:32] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> toad, you there?
[6:49] * d-ArkAngel (~Robert@213-131-104-86.onyx.net) has joined #freenet
[6:54] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yo, darkangel. Thanks for responding on the support maillist!
[6:57] <d-ArkAngel> I'm not on the support mail list.... only dev & tech
[6:58] <d-ArkAngel> so as far as i know I've not responded on support....
[7:01] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> hmm...well, thnks anyway
[7:01] <d-ArkAngel> thanks for what?? I don't understand...
[7:01] <d-ArkAngel> not that I mind being thanked :-) I'm willing to take praise wherever it comes :-)
[7:02] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> hehe
[7:02] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> how long have you been involved with the project, dark?
[7:03] <d-ArkAngel> 3-4 months maybe?
[7:03] <d-ArkAngel> probably not even that long.
[7:05] <i2p_iip> <anon> d-ArkAngel: Get out while you still can. It will trap you and take up all you'r time and ... I can't say more, they are coming for me. Run! ... Arghhhh, the pain!
[7:06] <d-ArkAngel> lol
[7:06] <d-ArkAngel> I am already a victim of blizzhackers, freenet holds no fear.
[7:06] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> sonax is always fun :-) alas, I don't seem to be able to get on his flog...
[7:07] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> Newsbyte: Now you blew my cover...
[7:07] <d-ArkAngel> well looks like I joind the mail lists mid september.
[7:07] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[7:09] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> neet trick
[7:10] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> or is that neat?
[7:10] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> heh...didn't actually noticed you got out with 'anon'
[7:10] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> anyway, dark, if you read the support-maillist, you would now be fulminating against me and all that :-)
[7:11] <d-ArkAngel> ahh so the couple of mails on the tech list are being discussed on the support list as well are they?
[7:12] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> sonax, is that edition 20? It still doesn't pop up...in a while, the guy claiming it takes 10 minutes will be right
[7:12] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> there is response on the tech list as well??!! :-o woohoo! More to read! :-)
[7:12] <d-ArkAngel> 1
[7:13] <d-ArkAngel> I'm keeping out of all the politics. I've played that game before else where. I'm just a code monkey looking at the technical problems, who's who's secret lover interests me not.
[7:13] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I mean, I agree I was being sarcastic, but that's no reason to plug out my account, that I use to let other people ask me questions about freenet and freenethelp
[7:14] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> hmm, I doubt that, dark. Once in politics, always in politics. It's like a disease you never get rid off
[7:15] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> besides, you enjoyed that politics thingy, didn't you? ;-)
[7:16] <d-ArkAngel> I run a site else where that's got quite political, so I'm leaving freenet to someone else :-) I get enough strife for sacking disagreeable people there :-)
[7:17] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> ah yes, I can understand. Luckily though, there are no disagreeable persons on the maillists! ;-)
[7:17] <d-ArkAngel> well ok 2 people in 4 years, so hardly something I keep doing :-)
[7:18] <d-ArkAngel> I've got a community of about 80,000 (probably only ~15,000 active) which makes keeping everyone happy is quite a horible political task.
[7:19] <d-ArkAngel> which is kinda why I was surprised that such a small number of freenet people (on the mailing list that is) were so... is suppose twitchy might be the right description :-)
[7:20] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yes, I've been pondering about that too
[7:21] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> actually, I've been debating the exact same thing on the I2P chan. On first sight, one would think it would go BETTER with freenet-ppl
[7:21] <d-ArkAngel> I guess that constantly evading capture by those pesky chineese assassins makes people a little more up tight than just avoiding a multinational corporation or two.
[7:22] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I mean, take Ian, for example. Most think I dislike him (as a person), but that's not really true. I read his blog, and I actually agree with most of it. It could be written by me (apart from spellingmistakes ;-)
[7:23] * d-ArkAngel looks forward to the planned spelling underlings proposed for the "next big step" in mozilla's development
[7:23] * kevloral is now known as kevlAway
[7:23] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> clearly, he has a libertarian input, just like me. So why doesn't it go well between us, and several of us, while, in theory, we all strive for the same thing: freedom of speech? We should welcome it with others, actually.
[7:24] <d-ArkAngel> to be honest I think I could tell you why. it's not that you dissagree with each other, it's the way you talk to each other.
[7:24] <d-ArkAngel> bloody argumentative libertarians :-)
[7:25] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I think the reason is, because, at hart, libertarians are individualistic in nature. A common goal is all good and well, but to get something done with a lot of people, you need quiet follower-types too.
[7:26] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> Thus, the reason we're so much in argument, is because, as libertarians, we have too much of an ego. We are more prone to 'rebel' against something, then to follow it without question. and we are also a lot more opinionated about certain aspects, so there too you have cause for greater conflict.
[7:26] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> that's my theory anyway. What you think of it?
[7:26] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> that's my theory anyway. What you think of it?
[7:27] <d-ArkAngel> I think the main reason you encounter so many problems is that your mails always consist of picking fault with what exists, but I've yet to see you propose any solutions or alternatives, and I think that the people writeing the code see it as unconstructive, because lets be fair, they all use it too, and they know the problems, so having someone keep telling you what you already know irks them.
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[7:28] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yes, I often get that complaint, but I think it's partly untrue.
[7:29] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I remember, that, when this was first said about my posts, I made a whole list of suggeststions and alternatives, so it's not like I only give criticism without anything else.
[7:29] <d-ArkAngel> it probably is... but it's the partly that's the problem.
[7:30] <d-ArkAngel> you can't partly annoy someone :-) and once they are annoyed they tend to be a little more resistant to your idea :-)
[7:31] <d-ArkAngel> which makes you slightly more likely to be critical... etc etc.
[7:31] <d-ArkAngel> it's down to that the criticism arrives without any attched hope.
[7:31] <d-ArkAngel> people like hope.
[7:32] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> you must also acknowledge that, while it's easy said I don't suggest solutions, the fact of the matter is, I do - but they don't think it would do any good. now, that is a difference of opinion, but NOT a reason to say I don't give alternatives and just whine.
[7:32] <d-ArkAngel> if you're going to say "this is a problem...." you need something like "I've been thinking about a solution and all I can think of is .... but that doesn't seem to cover ...."
[7:32] * Ribs goes to get a HD
[7:32] <Ribs> I think I'm gonna go dark side again, and set up a perm freenet node
[7:33] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[7:33] <Ribs> bandwith permitting, I shouldn't have an excuse to remove it
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[7:33] <d-ArkAngel> when they are in separate mails, the first mail just seems like pointless critisism.
[7:33] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, I started pretty hopefull myself. But after 4 years, and particulary the last year, I have increasing dificulties with staying optimistic. It's not that I still don't hope for a breakthrough and all that, but realisticly, I can't say it looks like things are all that positive.
[7:33] <Ribs> Java applications can kill online gaming :)
[7:35] <d-ArkAngel> I run my node off site because I can't be bothered turning the node on and off when I need the bandwidth :-)
[7:36] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yeah, I agree I didn't give any alternatives in THAT post, dark. But I did give it numerous times before, so it's not like they don't *know* what my suggested alternatives are. So I still feel it's weak to claim I don't suggest anything.
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[7:38] <d-ArkAngel> if you send a mail that says how about this " ..." followed by a dozen that say "freenet performance sucks" that doesn't make the dozen e-mails any more constructive....
[7:39] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> for instance, for improving the development of freenet, I've been saying for ages now, that we swhould build a new testnetwork. No1 can deny that. and it is a valid suggestion..so why is it portrayed that I never said any alternatives? Because the idea is not very liked, in this case, indeed, by Ian. But not liking the idea does not give the right to say I *didn't* suggest it.
[7:39] <d-ArkAngel> why would a test network help more than a simulation?
[7:40] <d-ArkAngel> we're working on the possibility of a distributed simulation that would in essence be a test network...
[7:41] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> simulations are only that: simulations. It doesn't show us really how a REAL network would work, unless you make it so complicated that you could as well make a testnetwork
[7:41] <d-ArkAngel> what is a "test network" in your deffinition?
[7:42] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> but the point rather is, that you may disagree on the usefullness of it, but you can't say I didn't suggest it as an alternative.
[7:43] <d-ArkAngel> I'm saying that I don't see what you're surgesting... there is a test network, called unstable.... and there are simulations, and I can't see what anything in between would be....
[7:45] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> no, that's more semantics you are playing, now. Even toad agreed to making a testnetwork, some months ago. So it's not like he wasn't aware we already have unstable. Unstable gives doesn't give us the info we really need; that's why toad and I agreed a real testnetwork might be usefull, but wouldn't be anonimous.
[7:46] <d-ArkAngel> so the idea hasn't been ignored then?
[7:47] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> it was been put back in the freezer, it seems
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[7:47] <d-ArkAngel> well there are only a few people codeing anything... so there are only so many things that can be done at a time...
[7:49] <d-ArkAngel> anyway, I'm just trying to explain how things look to someone who only showed up two months ago.
[7:49] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> and that's been *after* suggesting it myriads of times, during a year, and finally getting an agreement. Now, it's back to square zero. and coding capabilities might be limited, but it still sucks (and it still voids the argument I never suggest anything)
[7:50] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> true. With that I can concur. showing up two months ago, it might seem I'm giving undue criticism in a too harsh way.
[7:52] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> being here for years and having suggested things numerous times, but almost always to no avail, even when agreed upon (and remaining in the same end-user limbo), it doesn't seem undue nor overly harsh. at least to me.
[7:52] <d-ArkAngel> people have a very short memory I've found. they assume that people are entirely expressed in their last few communications, and so I find that repeating my self always helps keep things in the propper perspective (the number of times I've had to quote myself from earlier in a conversation to try and explain something I've said it a good testemant to that :-) )
[7:53] <d-ArkAngel> if only people were as simple and transparent as shell scripts ehh? :-)
[7:54] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> then they still would debate what's the best kernel, or something ;-)
[7:55] <d-ArkAngel> the only way I've found to deal with people is to never take them seriously.
[7:56] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I guess that would work, but it seems to me that such a viewpoint would also create serieus drawbacks.
[7:57] <d-ArkAngel> I did at one point not long after I started here almost quit based on a conversation where someone (might have been toad not sure) seemed to take a real personal disslike to me over some points I raised about problems I percived in the way the simulations were working.
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[7:58] <d-ArkAngel> it turned out allright in the end, mostly I think because I got my point of view across and helped hammer out a solution.
[7:59] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> don't worry, dark, that wasn't a personal dislike based on your raising points, it was just a natural occuring dislike for darkangels ;-)
[7:59] <d-ArkAngel> ;-)
[8:00] <d-ArkAngel> no-one likes people who come bearing problems. and to some extent that's not the problem of the guy coming with the problem. but it's something that i've become very aware of, and I guess that anyone who wants to bring a critisism of anything, or present a problem you've found is to accepts that you're critiquing the person who made it's "baby".
[8:01] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, I had the same. and I think it was with you. I vaguely remember some heated discussion/diatribe
[8:01] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> guess you didn't have your 'no-politics' in palce yet, then ;-)
[8:02] <d-ArkAngel> and you've got to expect a harsh defence. People who don't code don't understand... it's quite a presonal thing most of the time. and people telling you that it's wrong in some way upsets them.
[8:03] <d-ArkAngel> hell you could probably write a psycology text book about bug reports :-)
[8:04] <d-ArkAngel> I found a great text online a while back about how to ask for help in an open source mail list. It was kinda toung in cheek, but nothing it said wasn't true.
[8:04] <d-ArkAngel> lol, here it is... http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
[8:05] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> right. But I never tell anyone their code is wrong, because I find I have not the expertise to do that. But I *can* say what I think is wrong with the development process and basic workings in regard to the end-user. A coder shouldn't feel attacked by that, I think.
[8:05] <d-ArkAngel> I do remember arguing with you, it was before I realised that you actualy helped end users, and I percived you as only your criticisms.
[8:05] <d-ArkAngel> which was wrong of me as someone so new to the project.
[8:06] <d-ArkAngel> shouldn't no.
[8:06] <d-ArkAngel> but we do.
[8:06] <d-ArkAngel> it's like when an artists paints something.
[8:06] <d-ArkAngel> the people looking at it might not know much about art, but when they say "hmm, I don't think that should be that colour"
[8:07] <d-ArkAngel> I realise it's not exactly the same thing... but that's how it does feel to me (when I code things0
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[8:09] <d-ArkAngel> and I'm assuming that's how other coders feel about it (at least the ones that have a passion for it, I'm aware that there do exists coders who just do stuff, but don't get "involved" in it. but they don't tend to work on Open Source things :-) )
[8:11] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> brb
[8:11] <d-ArkAngel> np
[8:13] <d-ArkAngel> toad_: Just a quick message. Sorry that hard-core has been offline for so long, my main HDD has failed. I've got it replaced and will probably be getting the system back up and running this evening (should be no worries about running out of space any more :-) ) I've managed to recover most if not all of the data that you had from the sims you had been running, so with luck nothing will have been lost.
[8:14] <hobx__> blah
[8:15] <d-ArkAngel> blah?
[8:16] <hobx__> indeed
[8:16] <d-ArkAngel> what in particular?
[8:16] <d-ArkAngel> or is it just directed at life in general? :-)
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[8:47] <kevloral> re
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[9:26] <d-ArkAngel> oh dear... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/02/sun_microsoft_partnership_update/
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[10:26] <i2p_iip> <make> i would like to redude load on my node
[10:27] <i2p_iip> <make> would putting a bandwidth limit/connection limit help?
[10:31] <d-ArkAngel> bandwidth should help
[10:39] <i2p_iip> <make> thanks, i'll try that
[10:45] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> dark, you still there?
[10:45] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> dark, you still there?
[10:46] <d-ArkAngel> yup
[11:03] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> any objections that I use part of the conversation we had in a flog-update?
[11:09] <d-ArkAngel> I suppose not, which bit?
[11:10] <d-ArkAngel> well I don't really mean suppose... it's all said now, and as long as you don't quote me out of context then I hold no objections :-)
[11:31] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> is it possible to quote one IN context? :-o
[11:31] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I learn new things every day! ;-)
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[11:52] <i2p_iip> <make> i am seeing a problem with my node... if it runs for a while, on a high load, and then i click current downloads it dies
[11:59] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> ok, finished..go look at the context, dark! :-)
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[13:09] <i2p_iip> <mrflibble> evenin all
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[13:27] <toad_> hmmm
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[13:36] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> toad, are you mad at me because of the posts I made?
[13:43] <KenMan> hmmm, toad_ .
[13:45] * linagee (~linagee@netblock-66-245-229-97.dslextreme.com) has joined #freenet
[13:45] <KenMan> Newsbyte - are you hoping to make toad mad, or not ?
[13:48] <KenMan> oh, wait. I see you report that you have been kicked out of the project, so I can't speak to you anymore. Sorry.
[13:54] <jay> heh yeah
[13:55] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> hehe. You nauty, ken!
[13:55] <jay> i thought ian killfiled nb anyway
[13:55] <jay> newsbyte: why were you complaining on the Support list anyhow?
[13:56] <toad_> lol
[13:57] <KenMan> toad_: did you pass/win your aikido test yet ?
[14:00] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> because it started with a question on the suppoortlist, jay
[14:02] <jay> newsbyte: no that's not the reason you started bitching on the support list
[14:02] <jay> that's no reason for anyone
[14:02] <jay> you either answer the question or say nothing
[14:02] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I'm not anyone ;-)
[14:03] <plixed> stupidoneandproudofit? ;)
[14:04] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> is that a rethorical question? ;-)
[14:05] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I have answered it, jay, only not to your liking. There's a difference.
[14:05] <plixed> newsbyte: have you ever askes other questions than rhetorical ones? ;)
[14:06] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> have I ever typed without spellingmistakes, even? :-)
[14:08] * jay (~jcl@198.38.10.200) Quit ()
[14:12] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> wb, jay!
[14:17] * nextgens (~nextgens@d213-103-216-68.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[14:17] <nextgens> hi
[14:17] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> hi
[14:18] * jay (~jcl@198.38.10.200) has joined #freenet
[14:18] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> anyway, toad, I wanted to ask if it's possible, in a local network, that the IP of the different puters change, without the user doing anything for it?
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[14:33] <kevloral> g'evening all
[14:33] * robilad (~topic@mpiat2305.ag2.mpi-sb.mpg.de) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/1]")
[14:37] <jay> newsbyte: if you don't let the thread die im going to petition to have you banned from the lists
[14:45] <jay> newbyte: do you read me?
[14:48] <jay> or is that shitty gateway not working again?
[15:00] <plixed> jay: i can read you
[15:01] <nextgens> i2p_iip: help
[15:02] <plixed> i2p_iip is a PITA ;)
[15:03] * sdogi_ (~java@84-50-19-64-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) has joined #freenet
[15:04] <KenMan> i2p is (apparently) another system that hasn't yet reached maturity...
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[16:03] <nextgens> How long does it take on average to insert sucessfully 2 blocks with fuqid ?
[16:04] <nextgens> I'm "only" running 10 insert threads ... and no request
[16:05] <nextgens> and it takes aproximatly 15 mins to insert 2 blocks :'(
[16:05] <nextgens> running 5100
[16:05] <plixed> depends on the HTL
[16:06] <nextgens> HTL=25
[16:06] <plixed> LONG!
[16:06] <nextgens> but I've got a LOT of RNF, Timeouts, ...aborted errors :(
[16:06] <plixed> only 15 min for 2 blocks? that's extremly fast ;)
[16:06] <nextgens> lol
[16:06] <plixed> for HTL 25 ;)
[16:07] <nextgens> plixed: how many should it be ?
[16:08] <nextgens> I'd like my inserts to stay on the network because I only publish keys when they are done and indeed they are huge ...
[16:09] <plixed> your inserts stay on the net if they are popular
[16:09] <plixed> if they are not, they will be out in a few days, maybe a month
[16:09] <nextgens> I know but they could get flushed before I publish the key ;-)
[16:10] <nextgens> and that's annoying ... I don't want to have to re-insert
[16:10] <plixed> that is unlikely, the datastores should be big enough for at least a few days traffic
[16:11] <nextgens> It takes approximatly 2 weeks to insert 700Mo here :(
[16:12] <nextgens> So, I'll have to re-insert :(
[16:12] * nextgens changing my HTL
[16:12] <plixed> try a small htl like 15 or so
[16:12] <plixed> for healing 5 is enough
[16:12] <nextgens> plixed: thx for your advice ;-)
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[16:15] <plixed> htl 25 x 700 mb = 17,5 gb space only for your one key in the complete freenet dataspace, and you compete with others, so 2 weeks & constant reinserts is price you have to pay to keep your key available when it's not popular
[16:17] <nextgens> plixed: I think my inserts *are* popular but noone is able to get them :-P as I'm too lazy to reinsert all the time :-D
[16:18] * nextgens Is promissing not to keep on wasting bandwidth and dataspace
[16:18] * nextgens setting my insert HTL to 15
[16:27] <nextgens> insertion of my first block succeed :-)
[16:28] <nextgens> wohou !
[16:28] <nextgens> 2 :-)
[16:38] * greycat (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) Quit ("This time the bullet cold rocked ya / A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika")
[16:39] <nextgens> 4 failed (Timeout) :(
[16:55] <nextgens> 15 failed and no more success yet :'(
[16:56] <nextgens> Does running a node only to insert is 'efficient' ?
[16:57] <nextgens> should I run some request to force it to establish connections ? to enlarge its routing table ?
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[17:05] <nextgens> could someone who know(TM) answer ?
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[17:17] <nextgens> 3 / 31 :(
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[17:36] <nextgens> 4 / 44
[17:39] <KenMan> toad_: still here with us ?
[17:40] <KenMan> my question relates to nextgens question - are inserts pcached ? or replicated on each hop ?
[17:42] <KenMan> nextgens: it shouldn't really matter whether you use your node for local queries. If you have traffic, the node will establish new conns over time.
[17:42] <KenMan> Local queries shouldn't really help to any significant degree.
[17:43] * PasDNick (~PasDNick@82.224.192.145) Quit (""q"")
[17:43] <nextgens> KenMan: thank you :-)
[17:44] <KenMan> well, if you really want to prove it to yourself one way or another, monitor your queries per hour for a time. Then start up frost and see if it affects the number of queries you receive over time.
[17:45] <KenMan> If anything, frost will eat up some of your resources, and incoming queries will go down.
[17:45] <KenMan> Now what you really want to monitor is the number of outgoing queries. I don't remember where you can see that. But it likely would increase due to frost.
[17:46] <KenMan> in theory, using frost could raise the accuracy of your estimators ...
[17:48] <KenMan> i think there is an aggregateOutgoingRequests diagnostic, or something very similar.
[17:48] <KenMan> just search for the word aggregate in the diags page - that should get you there.
[18:16] * nextgens (~nextgens@d213-103-216-68.cust.tele2.fr) Quit ("leaving")
[18:34] <KenMan> hmm, trying to figure out current behavior by reading the code hurts my head !!
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[19:19] * dm (mihi@dsl-80-42-73-243.access.uk.tiscali.com) has joined #freenet
[19:19] <dm> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=131518&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=95&mode=nested&pid=10978399
[19:19] <dm> freenet generates so much hate
[19:23] <TheSeeker> if it were fast and not anon they would like it :P
[19:26] <dm> another gem from Newsybte on the devl
[19:36] <Redb3ard> oh?
[19:36] <Redb3ard> got a url? i like reading hatemongery
[19:37] <dm> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.devel/15874
[19:38] <Redb3ard> oh, on a technical level
[19:38] <Redb3ard> :/
[19:40] <Redb3ard> hmmm
[19:50] <KenMan> i wonder why mr. newbite is so vocal of late...
[19:55] <Ribs> he needs to learn to stfu
[19:56] <Ribs> like either fix the 'sucking' of freenet, or kindly fuck off and leave us in peace.
[19:57] <Redb3ard> hah
[19:57] <Redb3ard> id invite him to my network, but i dont need criticism quite that extreme, either
[19:58] <Redb3ard> actually, it does
[19:59] <KenMan> yeah. It's too bad - he doesn't read or write software, so he can't really contribute where it is most needed.
[19:59] <KenMan> And his criticisms are not completely unfounded, just completely unhelpful.
[20:00] <KenMan> I mean, we can accept and acknowledge that the system ain't perfect. There is a long way to go, but we ARE trying.
[20:02] <Redb3ard> its the nature of the business
[20:02] <Redb3ard> its always going to be a tradeoff of anonymity versus latency/bandwidth
[20:02] <KenMan> The lifespan of the project vs. progress made is personally disappointing, but we all admit that we aren't yet 100% certain it can be accomplished.
[20:03] <KenMan> so for now we keep trying :)
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[21:00] <KenMan> heyo, jayo !
[21:01] <jay> lo man
[21:01] <KenMan> what B happenin' ??
[21:01] <jay> just returned from a brisk walk in the freezing cold
[21:02] <KenMan> try riding a motorcycle at 70mph in 35' weather, then come back and bitch at me !! :p
[21:02] <jay> only a week ago i thought the mailing lists were dead
[21:02] <jay> i've done that a couple of times actually
[21:02] <jay> had a windshield tho
[21:02] <KenMan> well, then have pity and come help me fix my auto !
[21:02] <jay> heh
[21:02] <KenMan> Yeah, i got a full windscreen, it helps!
[21:03] <jay> nice
[21:03] <jay> KenMan: do you post to the mailing lists?
[21:04] <KenMan> very rarely. Not much to discuss on devl, not subscribed to the others.
[21:05] <KenMan> last post on 10/25 ...
[21:05] <jay> ah
[21:05] <KenMan> Gmane doesn't catch most of the traffic on the other lists, so... i just wonder what's up.
[21:05] <jay> [19:50] <KenMan> i wonder why mr. newbite is so vocal of late...
[21:05] <jay> [19:55] <Ribs> he needs to learn to stfu
[21:05] <jay> [19:56] <Ribs> like either fix the 'sucking' of freenet, or kindly fuck off and leave us in peace.
[21:05] <jay> Ribs: i agree
[21:05] <KenMan> yup. But he likely won't go away.
[21:05] <jay> KenMan: gmane misses some posts?
[21:06] <KenMan> "some" ?? heheh
[21:06] <KenMan> okay, it misses 95% of them.
[21:06] <jay> heh
[21:06] <jay> im subscribed to all the lists myself.. with an elaborate .procmailrc file that handles everything
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[21:06] <KenMan> i've no reason not to, i don't think. I already get some spam, so...
[21:07] <jay> ever use spamassasin?
[21:07] <KenMan> not tried it myself. Mozilla mail seems pretty okay.
[21:07] <jay> mozilla does spam filtering?
[21:07] <KenMan> it has 'junk mail controls' ... yeah. It gets most of them into my trash bin folder for me.
[21:08] <jay> ah nice
[21:08] <KenMan> I have a half-assed version of toad's sim. I like what it can do, but it isn't doing everything he does.
[21:09] <KenMan> Then I took it and recreated a C++ version with STL. But it doesn't do the estimators :(
[21:09] <jay> i have it but haven't played with it
[21:09] <jay> KenMan: how long did that take?
[21:09] <KenMan> Not very long at all. But again, it is not FreeNet by any stretch,
[21:10] <KenMan> I'm "trying things" but so far the C++ doesn't tell me too much to contribute . So I should go back to the java one and start making videos out of it.
[21:11] <KenMan> Like, how well do the estimator sliding buckets work ?
[21:11] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-246-037.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[21:12] <jay> anything would help speedup the initial learning curve of course
[21:12] <toad_> KenMan: yes I passed the aikido.. I have been off a lot because of flu :(
[21:12] <jay> i haven't followed the details on the sims
[21:12] <KenMan> Unfortunately I can't decide what anim format to use. I think .mng looks interesting. What do you mean about help speedup ?
[21:13] <jay> KenMan: the time it takes for a newbie node to become reasonably integrated
[21:13] <jay> toad_: hi
[21:13] <KenMan> toad_: cool. Sorry to hear you don't feel well. Eat a chicken, even if it is not the one I owe you.
[21:13] <toad_> newsbyte: yes, if using DHCP
[21:14] <KenMan> (yes, i owe toad a chicken, if I ever meet him, i will buy him a szechuan chicken dish, or an organic chicken) ;)
[21:15] <toad_> <nextgens> It takes approximatly 2 weeks to insert 700Mo here :( - how many threads? and is fuqid being stupid? I bet it is, imposing arbitrary timeouts and always hitting them...
[21:15] <toad_> nextgens: you should not get timeouts (much anyway) unless your client is really stupid
[21:16] <toad_> <KenMan> my question relates to nextgens question - are inserts pcached ? or replicated on each hop ? -- not sure, maybe
[21:16] <KenMan> I am trying to define "how I would write FreeNet, if I was doing it from scratch" - i am ignoring the speed factor of NGR, and mainly thinking along CPA-like lines...
[21:17] <KenMan> primarily, given a datastore, or a set of successfully hit keys, or whatever, how strongly does key X match against a set of points.
[21:17] <KenMan> I could probably get something out of re-reading TreeRouting (preNGR), but it hurts too much.
[21:18] <toad_> |when will you fuckers learn that freenet is never going to catch on ? christ, it's been out for like, what, two years or so now ? it's been pretty much dead from the get-go. let it rest in peace. -- from the /. post - ROFL, two years, yeah, sure, that's your attention span? Know how long it took to build TCP/IP? And it's been a lot more than two years :|
[21:19] <Redb3ard> heh
[21:19] <toad_> I admit that thread is a little depressing
[21:19] <toad_> but it doesn't necessarily show hate as such
[21:20] <toad_> and there are some major factual errors
[21:20] <toad_> and as far as unpopular files go, ever tried to get unpopular files from bittorrent??
[21:20] <KenMan> screw them. Waste your time (err, spend it, rather) on furthering Hops.
[21:21] <KenMan> and getting better... Don't ignore your need for rest right now.
[21:21] <toad_> <Redb3ard> its always going to be a tradeoff of anonymity versus latency/bandwidth --- that is NOT the fundamental problem here. I believe freenet can work well - at least it can beat bittorrent on speed of moderate popularity large files, at the very least. but we haven't quite cracked it.
[21:23] <toad_> <KenMan> toad_: cool. Sorry to hear you don't feel well. Eat a chicken, even if it is not the one I owe you. --- i have :)
[21:24] <toad_> KenMan: good idea
[21:29] <toad_> (going to bed) :)
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.