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[0:13] <TheSeeker> hmm, defrag software didn't like trying to defragment files that were made by Cygwin under another user... good thing I have a tool that removes access restrictions from files...
[0:13] <TheSeeker> hmmmm Build 60253 (Latest: 60256)
[0:47] <TheSeeker> so.. is 60256 not generally avaliable then? I thought snapshots were automatically generated...
[1:21] <TheSeeker> anyone have the 60256 jar or know what's been fixed/changed?
[1:32] <TheSeeker> hmm, between the "Minimum request interval violated!" and the "Consecutive same winner" errors, which is worse?
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[4:18] <Ash-Fox> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/21/register_adserver_attack/
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[4:38] <TheSeeker> "Internet porn is more dangerous than crack."
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[4:39] <TheSeeker> just too funny http://theinq.com/?article=19784
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[5:30] <man-di> hmm, no toad here
[5:30] <man-di> I guess its too early for him
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[5:34] <TheSeeker> hmm, 9/55 of the nodes I know about are using 60256 ... I guess those are the people that know how to compile things themselves :P
[5:40] * kevlAway is now known as kevloral
[5:41] <kevloral> g'morning all
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[7:04] <man-di> some freenet developer here ?
[7:09] <sanity> man-di: howdy
[7:11] <man-di> hi sanity
[7:11] <sanity> how can i help
[7:13] <man-di> sanity: can you tell me if freenet uses TCP, UDP or both ?
[7:13] <sanity> just TCP
[7:13] <man-di> ok, decreases the stuff to fix for freenet ;-)
[7:13] <sanity> ?
[7:13] <sanity> ah, indeed :-)
[7:14] <man-di> toad checked freenet with kaffe and I would like to test a patch to kaffe for me
[7:14] <man-di> he will be here again tomorrow ?
[7:14] <sanity> he should be, Sunday and Monday are normally his days off
[7:15] <sanity> man-di: but, if you were to join the freenet development mailing list, i am sure you could find plenty of people willing to help you test
[7:15] <sanity> (i would myself but i am in the middle of some coding)
[7:16] <man-di> sanity: toad has already some insight into kaffe
[7:16] <man-di> which is needed currently
[7:16] <sanity> ah, ok
[7:34] * toad_ (toad@82-32-17-1.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
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[8:13] <man-di> hi toad_
[8:13] <toad_> hi
[8:13] <man-di> time to check a little patch to kaffe for me ?
[8:13] <sanity> hi toad
[8:13] <toad_> man-di: hmm?
[8:14] <toad_> hi sanity
[8:14] <man-di> @@ -227,7 +227,7 @@ public final class SocketChannelImpl ext
[8:14] <man-di> int available = input.available();
[8:14] <man-di> int len = dst.capacity() - dst.position();
[8:14] <man-di> - if (available == 0)
[8:14] <man-di> + if (! isBlocking() && available == 0)
[8:14] <man-di> return 0;
[8:14] * toad_ graded on saturday for 6th kyu.. after missing the last 3 gradings
[8:14] <man-di> if (len > available)
[8:15] <man-di> in gnu/java/nio/SocketChannelImpl.java
[8:15] <man-di> toad_: cool
[8:15] <sanity> toad: congratuations :-)
[8:15] <man-di> toad_: in aikido ?
[8:15] <man-di> congrats
[8:15] * toad_ nods
[8:15] <toad_> man-di: okay, what's up with that patch?
[8:15] * man-di did some aikido too
[8:16] * toad_ almost entered for 5th too, but my ukemi is pretty bad still, and i don't really know the techniques that well.. will do it next time
[8:16] <man-di> toad_: please apply it to your kaffe check out and test if freenet works better
[8:16] <toad_> man-di: will do
[8:16] <man-di> toad_: I did aikido just for fun to learn something different, I do karate since some years
[8:17] * toad_ does it for a zillion different minor reasons...
[8:18] <toad_> man-di: why does that affect freenet? ALL our sockets are nonblocking...
[8:18] <man-di> toad_: does freenet use blocking or non-blocking socket channels, or both ?
[8:18] <toad_> oh and is it (if (! isBlocking() && available == 0)) or ((!isBlocking()) && available == 0) ?
[8:18] <toad_> man-di: all non blocking
[8:18] <man-di> aaah, damn, then this is a different story, sorry to bother you
[8:18] <toad_> we emulate blocking where we need it
[8:19] <toad_> hehe ok
[8:19] <man-di> okay
[8:19] <toad_> man-di: answer my question anyway it could be important
[8:19] <toad_> (!isBlocking() && available) is ambiguous...
[8:20] <toad_> err && available == 0
[8:20] <man-di> you are right
[8:20] <man-di> I should change this
[8:20] <toad_> :)
[8:20] <toad_> what's the intended meaning?
[8:20] <man-di> looks more clear then
[8:20] <man-di> ((!isBlocking()) && available == 0)
[8:21] <toad_> if(available && !isBlocking())
[8:21] <toad_> is the same number of chars and is unambiguous :)
[8:22] <sanity> argh, getting intermittent reports of 100% with Dijjer, which i haven't yet reproduced, but even if I do, its non obvious how to track them down. i knew i would regret all of those while(true) loops (using break; to terminate)....
[8:22] <toad_> if(available == 0 && !isBlocking())
[8:22] <sanity> 100% CPU usage that is
[8:22] <toad_> :) sanity
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[8:28] <toad_> Financial Status</h3>
[8:28] <toad_> The project's current Paypal balance is <b>
[8:28] <toad_> -$2,275.54</b>
[8:28] <toad_> +$2,289.09</b>
[8:28] <toad_> yay
[8:29] <toad_> we have well over $2K, only a few days after sending me the last paycheque
[8:29] * toad_ wonders if we should try KenMan with $1K...
[8:30] <sanity> toad: i would love to - but i am really worried about being overextended - i would rather build up a reserve of cash before considering that
[8:30] <toad_> yeah
[8:30] <toad_> when we have $3K, we should
[8:30] <sanity> hmz
[8:30] <sanity> well
[8:30] <toad_> maybe :)
[8:30] <sanity> i was thinking more than that
[8:31] <toad_> you think? will we get much more than that with displaying the balance on the page?
[8:31] <toad_> i'm not sure i'd give FP much if it had enough to pay for its next 2 months' expenses..
[8:31] <sanity> not sure, but we can't lie
[8:31] <toad_> +$2,298.14</b>
[8:31] <toad_> sanity: certainly not
[8:31] <toad_> sanity: my point is, more work => more money, unless the worker is really bad
[8:32] <toad_> or is distracted by strategic issues
[8:32] <sanity> i wonder if we can get a graph of our balance to see if the rate is really increasing, or if is just because of that $1,000 donation
[8:32] <toad_> but i agree we need to be careful
[8:32] <toad_> +$2,321.00</b>
[8:32] <toad_> more people subbing to announce than dropping.. which is good
[8:33] <sanity> i am not comfortable with existing on a month-to-month basis with you
[8:33] <sanity> what is your feeling on the current status of the code?
[8:34] <sanity> i have heard good things about insert reliability
[8:34] <toad_> yeah, inserts have improved substantially
[8:34] <sanity> what about overall performance?
[8:34] <toad_> well, I only have 2 of 5 alinks on my stable node today
[8:34] <toad_> that doesn't necessarily prove anything..
[8:35] <sanity> no, it doesn't
[8:35] <toad_> requests were going reasonably..
[8:35] <toad_> i don't think the network would survive a slashdotting well though
[8:35] <toad_> it's not doing THAT well
[8:35] <toad_> still, push/pull tests would be useful
[8:35] <sanity> well, what needs to be done to improve it?
[8:36] <toad_> get the simulations working, or show that they are working, and implement what they show works...
[8:37] <toad_> lots of debugging
[8:37] <toad_> and a few smallish things
[8:37] <toad_> such as transfer coalescing, and so on
[8:37] <sanity> well, ok
[8:37] <toad_> and at some point, a big thing
[8:37] <sanity> but i want to avoid adding new features until we are confident that the features we already have work
[8:37] <toad_> big thing = fixed file size, but that's huge, and has major implications
[8:38] <toad_> sanity: yes
[8:38] <sanity> i would even like to think what things we can remove (ie. stuff that failed to achieve a demonstrable improvement in performance)
[8:38] <toad_> i think that's a good idea
[8:38] <toad_> apart from bug fixes
[8:38] <toad_> well, we can nuke the failure table, but i'd prefer to replace it with a per node FT
[8:38] <sanity> i think that has been one of our habitual mistakes
[8:38] <toad_> need to do some sims on that
[8:39] <sanity> that guy was reporting massive numbers of hits on his FT recently, why would that be?
[8:39] <toad_> i'm pretty sure the per node FT would be beneficial to old-content findability, although it might encourage spamming requests to some degree
[8:39] <toad_> sanity: well, if the FT is working, then it's probably working against us
[8:39] <toad_> I didn't just zap it because i thought it wasn't doing anything
[8:39] <toad_> and I might want to reuse some of the code when i did the per node FT
[8:40] <toad_> also per node FT is needed for protecting against some kinds of cancer nodes
[8:40] <toad_> but if you have per node ft, you probably need non-htl requests and full request coalescing to prevent spamming.. you get into a bit of a web of feature dependancies...
[8:41] <toad_> just getting rid of the old FT might actually improve things significantly
[8:42] <toad_> but it could well increase load significantly too
[8:43] <toad_> Hmmm, I couldn't get TFE and FIND in the last 4 days. Most Frost
[8:43] <toad_> groups are also much more silent than usual. Could someone else
[8:43] <toad_> get TFE or FIND, or is there some kind of problem within the
[8:43] <toad_> network?
[8:43] <toad_> The interesting part is, my node does generate quite some traffic,
[8:43] <toad_> and it is well connected. So it's not a problem in this area. Strangely
[8:43] <toad_> I get DNFs almost instantly (mostly less than 2 minutes, sometimes less
[8:43] <toad_> than 30 seconds till the DNF) and my failure table shows a high number
[8:43] <toad_> of blocked requests (mostly some thounsands, while it got barely above
[8:44] <toad_> 500 with the older builds).
[8:44] <toad_> oh shit
[8:44] <sanity> you do love paste bombs don't you :-)
[8:44] <toad_> okay, I'll zap the failure table
[8:44] <toad_> sanity: I come from a place where they are regarded as normal :)
[8:44] <toad_> (xaomoo) :)
[8:44] <sanity> but what is causing that (the FT thing he reports)?
[8:44] <sanity> why would it suddenly change?
[8:45] <toad_> well, if nodes are specializing more, the FT would have more work to do
[8:45] <toad_> so we become a victim of our own success, given that the current FT is generally harmful if it does anything?
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[8:47] <toad_> No, FIND is not dead, i have just been having some ISP related
[8:47] <toad_> trouble. I hope to get back by the middle of this week, but i have
[8:47] <toad_> also learned that promises from my ISP are not worth... well, much.
[8:47] <toad_> So, in short, no, THEY have not gotten to me and FIND will return
[8:47] <toad_> in time...
[8:47] <toad_> Have fun!
[8:47] <toad_> --
[8:47] <toad_> Sonax
[8:47] <toad_> hmmm okay, FIND isn't a victim of it
[8:47] <toad_> but nonetheless...
[8:48] <toad_> sanity: you realize that getting rid of the FT could lead to significant overload, and if it does we'll have to immediately implement transfer coalescing, and probably no-htl requests and full request coalescing?
[8:48] <toad_> getting rid of the FT would in any case be a step forward :)
[8:49] <sanity> why is the FT so problematic when it only blocks for 30 minutes?
[8:50] <toad_> sanity: because it can interfere with itself
[8:50] <toad_> you request TFE just after midnight, you can't find it
[8:50] <toad_> the FT then blocks that entire route for 30 mins
[8:50] <toad_> you request it again from another area of the network
[8:50] <sanity> hmz
[8:50] <sanity> yes, i see
[8:50] <toad_> that then reaches the first chain at some point
[8:50] <toad_> and kills that one too
[8:50] <toad_> it's insidious
[8:51] <sanity> gotchya
[8:52] <toad_> it can probably sustain itself for some time, interleaving the 30 minutes's...
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[8:53] <toad_> sanity: so kill the FT and then immediately release new stable and unstable, only tested locally?
[8:54] <sanity> hm
[8:54] <sanity> maybe unstable first
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[8:55] <toad_> problem is nobody uses unstable
[8:57] * toad_ LOL: --
[8:57] <toad_> Promises from ISPs are worth slightly less than promises from
[8:57] <toad_> politicians.
[8:59] <sanity> ok, well
[8:59] <sanity> fuckit, lets just do it
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[9:00] * bllx (~leot@host217-44-61-175.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) has joined #freenet
[9:00] <bllx> anyone know if the problem with Freenet and Apple's latest Java still exists? the kernel panic one
[9:01] <toad_> heh, CNN sees the light: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/11/16/tec.us.firefoxbro.ap/index.html
[9:01] <toad_> bllx: quite possible
[9:01] <toad_> I don't have a mac, and I don't know if there's much we can do about it
[9:02] <toad_> except for getting freenet to work with e.g. Kaffe, which wouldn't have that problem
[9:02] <bllx> yeh, just thought any other mac users out there might know
[9:02] <bllx> stopped using freenet 2 months ago cos of it
[9:02] <toad_> ugh
[9:02] <toad_> hmmm
[9:02] <toad_> well you could try it, but it depends mostly on apple and sun
[9:02] <toad_> is there a new jvm?
[9:03] <toad_> are there non-sun jvms for apple?
[9:03] <bllx> not since the prob
[9:03] <toad_> e.g. IBM?
[9:03] <bllx> dont think so
[9:03] <bllx> maybe some optimisations or changes in freenet code mean the issue doesnt arise no more
[9:03] <bllx> well i may try it the
[9:03] <bllx> -n
[9:04] <sanity> i do have a mac, but i run freenet on my linux box - i would rather not crash my mac :-)
[9:04] <bllx> yeh it caused kernel panic within 30 mins of starting freenet
[9:05] <bllx> most unfortunate
[9:05] <toad_> hmmm why did it take a minute for firefox to resolve cnn.com ? maybe there's a problem with my dns...
[9:05] <bllx> cant find bug report page for freenet...anyone?
[9:06] <bllx> to check if any recent reports on the apple java with freenet bug
[9:06] <toad_> bllx: support@freenetproject.org, essentially, is our bug tracking system
[9:06] <toad_> along with devl@freenetproject.org
[9:06] <toad_> and my inbox :)
[9:06] <bllx> heh cc
[9:07] <bllx> well I suppose I can risk a panic...
[9:08] <toad_> A tiny demonstration with maybe 20 people was
[9:08] <toad_> mentioned live on TV because those who wrote the script for the minister of
[9:08] <toad_> justice had expected that we'd do something really big, so they thought it
[9:08] <toad_> was necessary to comment on it -- and that mentioning by the minister was
[9:08] <toad_> more valuable than if we had had a demonstration of 10 times as many people
[9:08] <toad_> outside the building.
[9:08] <toad_> ROFL !
[9:09] <sanity> toad: what is that referring to?
[9:09] <d-ArkAngel> gotta love the press
[9:09] <toad_> sanity: pro-swpats event a while ago in munich i think
[9:10] <sanity> ah, cool
[9:12] <bllx> update.sh is dloading surprisingly slowly...4k/sec
[9:12] <toad_> hmmm
[9:12] <toad_> where is it downloading from?
[9:12] <toad_> sf has tons of bandwidth
[9:13] <bllx> dont know
[9:13] <bllx> o yeh
[9:13] <bllx> http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-latest.jar
[9:13] <toad_> hmmm no reason for THAT to be slow.. that's sf...
[9:13] <toad_> running any p2p's in the background? :)
[9:13] <bllx> 66.35.250.210
[9:13] <bllx> neg
[9:14] <bllx> im not complaining..its just curious ;)
[9:14] <toad_> okay, action plan: 1. remove failure table, put out unstable build, do a little testing, probably put out stable? 2. moderate email lists. 3. get food. 4. read ffii box. 5. deal with DTI meeting.
[9:15] <bllx> DTI? in the UK?
[9:15] <toad_> yes
[9:15] <toad_> are you?
[9:15] <bllx> you in UK then
[9:15] <bllx> yep
[9:15] <toad_> are you going? :)
[9:15] <bllx> err...when is it
[9:15] <toad_> it's invite only :|
[9:15] <bllx> trying to get cash from em?
[9:15] <toad_> if you wrote to your MP re software patents, then you may have been sent a reg form
[9:16] <bllx> i wrote re RIP bill a while back
[9:16] <toad_> you have to fax them, which is a PITA
[9:16] <bllx> but not patents
[9:16] <bllx> yes it was a fax
[9:16] <toad_> which is what I'm going to deal with later, unless barbara squyres has got back to me by email
[9:17] <toad_> okay, should I keep the "DNF-ignore" or "secondary" part of the failure table?
[9:18] <toad_> that was intended to improve the estimators' accuracy by not reporting DNFs on the estimators when we know there's a 90%+ chance they won't succeed, because they've previously failed
[9:18] <toad_> sanity: hmm?
[9:18] <sanity> hmz
[9:19] <sanity> well, i would rather remove it unless we know it helps
[9:20] <toad_> well
[9:20] <toad_> the primary FT is the big problem
[9:20] <toad_> unfortunately the effects of secondary FT are hard to simulate
[9:20] <toad_> I say get rid of one thing at a time?
[9:20] <sanity> ok
[9:20] <bllx> where in UK are you toad? NW London here, Sheps Bush
[9:21] <toad_> bristol
[9:21] <bllx> roger
[9:21] <toad_> the last time i tried to meet somebody from fp, we had some big problems with a train station rendezvous :(
[9:21] <toad_> haven't heard from him since :|
[9:22] <bllx> those days are over, if both have mobiles, surely
[9:22] <bllx> but RL can be complex
[9:22] <d-ArkAngel> I saw him come into this chat room on the following monday I think, but he left again before I noticed
[9:23] <toad_> bllx: I had a mobile
[9:23] <toad_> I believe he did
[9:23] <toad_> but his didn't work, or something
[9:23] <bllx> cc
[9:23] <bllx> ok update.sh is done...freenet-ext.jar not retrieving tho
[9:24] <bllx> so that bit hasnt changed
[9:25] * toad_ restarting unstable node..
[9:25] <bllx> well it still runs on os X /Java 1.4.2 Sun
[9:26] <bllx> ill put it through some hoops and see how long til kernel panic now, if at all
[9:27] <bllx> omg java cpu use just hit 105%
[9:27] <toad_> heh
[9:27] <bllx> thats a clever trick
[9:27] <toad_> that's a bug in whatever was measuring it
[9:27] <bllx> top
[9:27] <toad_> curious
[9:27] <bllx> just saw 125% to
[9:27] <toad_> one cpu only?
[9:27] <bllx> yes
[9:27] <bllx> 1.25GHz G4
[9:28] <bllx> mainly 10-30% tho
[9:28] <d-ArkAngel> Thu Nov 11 [14:19] *** kers (~kers@71.ppp141.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined channel #freenet
[9:28] <bllx> its the hi java cpu use that was causing the panics i think
[9:28] <toad_> i doubt it
[9:28] <toad_> unless your cpu/system is really broken
[9:29] <d-ArkAngel> that was the last time I saw him. he was only online for under a minuet
[9:29] <toad_> should be able to run 100% 24/7 e.g. running dnetc
[9:29] <bllx> o ok
[9:29] <bllx> panics induced by load tho it seemed
[9:31] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit ()
[9:31] <plixed> sounds like bad hardware
[9:31] <bllx> no its a reported bug
[9:32] <bllx> several reports; os X current java (Sun 1.4.2), and freenet
[9:32] <plixed> ok, i thought the kernel / driver are stable
[9:32] <plixed> whatever a userspace program does (
[9:33] <bllx> its a mystery
[9:33] <plixed> e.g. java, it should not be able to provoke a panic
[9:33] <bllx> as Toya would say
[9:33] <plixed> if it is possible, the OS (kernel/driver) is broken
[9:34] <bllx> hmm
[9:35] * toad_ agrees with plixed
[9:36] <toad_> and neither should high load be able to produce a panic
[9:36] <toad_> unless there is a serious cooling problem
[9:38] <bllx> tis queer
[9:39] <toad_> SEC 22/11/2004 14:27:56.086 (freenet.node.Main, main, NORMAL): starting filesystem
[9:39] <toad_> ummm it's now 14:40...
[9:41] <toad_> hmmm java bug or something
[9:52] <toad_> well, there's nothing ON unstable to test WITH
[9:52] <toad_> so i'll merge it locally and test it with stable...
[9:56] <bllx> i had unstable installed from 2 months ago: just did update.sh -is that ok? will new one overwrite old unstable build?
[9:57] <toad_> probably that is ok
[9:57] <bllx> hope so
[9:57] * toad_ restarting stable...
[9:57] <bllx> how many ppl going to this dti thing toad?
[9:58] <toad_> don't know exactly
[9:58] <bllx> a crowd/handful?
[9:58] <toad_> somewhere between the two
[9:58] <bllx> :)
[9:58] <toad_> no clear data
[9:58] <d-ArkAngel> did I hear that there had been 500 invitations, but only 300 places?
[9:59] <d-ArkAngel> or did I dream that?
[9:59] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: where did you hear that?
[9:59] <bllx> you know they say the US is getting more puritanical...
[9:59] <toad_> bllx: whatever that's supposed to mean..
[9:59] <bllx> well I was chucked off a game server last night cos of my nick!
[9:59] <toad_> eh?
[9:59] <bllx> bllx
[9:59] <bllx> several said it was disgusting
[9:59] <toad_> eh?
[9:59] <bllx> wtf is going on over there
[9:59] <toad_> what is it?
[10:00] <toad_> what does it mean?
[10:00] <bllx> they said it reminded them of 'bollocks'.
[10:00] <toad_> heh
[10:00] <bllx> but even if it did...so the fk what?
[10:00] <bllx> pathetic
[10:00] <toad_> thought never occurred to me..
[10:00] <bllx> CoD server
[10:00] <bllx> if you know that game
[10:00] <plixed> a great album "never mind the bollocks" ;)
[10:00] <bllx> exactly plixed ;)
[10:01] <bllx> and in english english the word is not that rude
[10:01] <bllx> and v common
[10:01] <toad_> might just be a linguistic issue
[10:01] <toad_> there are plenty of words that are very rude in the uk that americans don't get
[10:01] <bllx> and it doesnt even exist in US english: theyre not supposed to know it
[10:02] <plixed> didn'nt knew that "bollocks" is rude in american english until now...
[10:02] <bllx> heh
[10:02] <bllx> well they said explain the nick...
[10:02] <bllx> I said im bill X
[10:02] <bllx> but they still banned me
[10:02] <bllx> Ive had this nick on net for 10 years
[10:03] <bllx> first time ever it was an issue
[10:03] * kevloral is now known as kevlAway
[10:03] <bllx> 2 weeks after GWB re-elected...
[10:03] <bllx> but lets not get political ;)
[10:04] <bllx> where does Ian live atm? ex-USA?
[10:05] <toad_> heh
[10:05] <toad_> scotland i think
[10:05] <toad_> he's called sanity here
[10:05] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[10:05] <bllx> really? so Im in his presence now
[10:06] <bllx> cool
[10:06] * man-di (~man-di@dynadsl-080-228-93-214.ewetel.net) has left #freenet
[10:06] <bllx> ;)
[10:07] <plixed> the temple to worship the great sanity is next door ;)
[10:07] <d-ArkAngel> toad_: from the register:
[10:07] <d-ArkAngel> The Patent Office confirmed that over 300 people have been invited, and that typically, meetings like this have a 10 per cent take-up rate. The meeting is being held in a room big enough for 120
[10:07] <d-ArkAngel> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/09/patent_charm/
[10:08] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> toad, you there?
[10:11] * toad_ hmmz
[10:11] <toad_> @ the top of kitsune...
[10:12] <toad_> newsbyte: hi
[10:14] <toad_> hey, there's actually a post on SSK@WL4cWt7Pq6MEHz7ekBfW2gsSqSQPAgM/devl// for once...
[10:15] <toad_> only one, of course... buggy!
[10:15] * kevlAway is now known as kevloral
[10:15] <kevloral> re
[10:17] <toad_> oooh, an NPE!
[10:17] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[10:17] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[10:17] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yes, well...
[10:18] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> did you notice there isn't much posting anymore on devl and the lot too?
[10:18] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> 3/4 have defected to i2p, me thinks ;-)
[10:19] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> even little me, to some extend. Though I still maintain the freenethelp site
[10:20] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> ermm...well, you wouldn't happen to know someone else willing to host/maintain it, would you?
[10:22] <toad_> java.lang.NullPointerException
[10:22] <toad_> at freenet.client.SegmentOutputStream.flush(SegmentOutputStream.java:213
[10:22] <toad_> )
[10:22] <toad_> at java.io.FilterOutputStream.flush(FilterOutputStream.java:123)
[10:22] <toad_> at java.io.FilterOutputStream.close(FilterOutputStream.java:140)
[10:22] <toad_> at freenet.support.io.FilterDataChunkOutputStream.close(FilterDataChunkO
[10:22] <toad_> utputStream.java:23)
[10:22] <toad_> at java.io.FilterOutputStream.close(FilterOutputStream.java:143)
[10:22] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> toad!! wake up!!
[10:22] <toad_> at freenet.OutputStreamTrailerWriter.close(OutputStreamTrailerWriter.jav
[10:22] <toad_> a:35)
[10:22] <toad_> at freenet.OutputStreamTrailerWriter.writeTrailing(OutputStreamTrailerWr
[10:22] <toad_> iter.java:27)
[10:22] <toad_> at freenet.node.states.data.SendData.startWrite(SendData.java:313)
[10:22] <toad_> at freenet.node.states.data.SendData.received(SendData.java:272)
[10:22] <toad_> okay, that's interesting...
[10:23] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> is that a yes or a no?
[10:23] <toad_> newsbyte: so what you're saying is that despite freenet working quite well recently, despite it having a glitch in the last few days caused by the failure table that i'm about to fix, we must all abandon ship now and go to iip as well? yawn!
[10:24] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> must, must? I say 3/4 HAVe gone to i2p. And I asked if you knew someone who would host freenethelp
[10:25] <toad_> ah, so all this content I'm downloading is imaginary?
[10:25] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I'm not all convinced about the well-working of freenet neither, though I must confess it's been a while since I ran it. But alas, I've heard it so many times before... :-/
[10:25] * spamhog (~spamhog@62-101-126-208.fastres.net) has joined #freenet
[10:25] <toad_> newsbyte: yes, so fuck off
[10:26] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> toad, really...maybe some newbies have put something into, but you know as well as I that many freesites haven't been updated in ages
[10:26] <toad_> pardon my french but you are not entitled to express any opinion on freenet's working if you're not actually running it; well you can say what you like, but I can feel free to ignore you if it's completely unfounded
[10:26] <toad_> which it is from the sound of it
[10:27] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> true, but note I didn't say anything about freenet istelf thistime, I said many had gone to i2p.
[10:28] <toad_> not many#
[10:28] <toad_> we have thousands of users
[10:28] <toad_> i2p has a hundred users at best
[10:28] <toad_> 76 last i heard
[10:28] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I could run the latest build, I guess, but then I'd have to remove the unstable node from my other puter. Is it still used for anything, unstable?
[10:29] <toad_> and your skepticism that we can ever fix freenet is irrelevant; if you are not using it, you are simply and solely a TROLL!
[10:29] <toad_> not much at the moment
[10:29] <toad_> i can get a lot of content, and a lot of it is pretty recent
[10:29] <toad_> i.e. november
[10:30] <toad_> PRI 22/11/2004 15:12:39.486 (freenet.client.AutoRequester$AutoListener, YThread-
[10:30] <toad_> 11, ERROR): Received: A fatal exception occured while processing: java.io.IOExce
[10:30] <toad_> ption: Attempt to use a released TempFileBucket: /var/lib/freenet-stable/store/t
[10:30] <toad_> emp/tbf_6339b5b1
[10:30] <toad_> oooh
[10:31] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yes, yes, but it's a sign nevertheless. They are only 4 months truelly active, we've been there for 4 years. And users is one thing, but active users who put in content is another matter. But hey, point me to some new intresting&updated sites, then, I'll have a look
[10:31] <d-ArkAngel> newsbyte, find someone who cares...
[10:32] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> sceptisism is good :-) what does the simulayions say? By now, you should have gotten a good idea...?
[10:32] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[10:32] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I am, ark, in this chan ;-)
[10:32] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[10:32] * d-ArkAngel goes back to ignoring the trolling
[10:33] <toad_> newsbyte: if you make me /kick i2p_iip, I think that will make you unpopular in your i2p realm, no?
[10:33] <toad_> or will that just go to prove that nobody should use freenet because all its devls are assholes?
[10:33] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[10:33] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[10:33] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> that's a rather absurd action, I don't think you're that unreasonable
[10:34] <toad_> yes, the gateway is a PITA, because it means we can't just kick trolls
[10:34] <toad_> nor can we even /ignore them with most clients
[10:35] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> you're being irratic. You complain that I can't say anything because I'm not running freenet at the moment, but I offered to run, but want to know if I can delete my unstable node for it. Let's not get into diatribes
[10:35] <d-ArkAngel> should be a feature in the gateways to allow admins on the IRC chan to cause a block on users through the gateway.
[10:35] <toad_> newsbyte: and i told you you can delete the unstable node
[10:36] <d-ArkAngel> newsbyte since I joined the project you've not said anything positive, or contructive, or even in hind sight worth reading.
[10:36] <toad_> [15:30:03] <toad_> not much at the moment
[10:36] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: he has at least run freenethelp.org
[10:36] <d-ArkAngel> I mean in here ;-) I realise that he might be a big hitter in other ways ;-)
[10:37] <d-ArkAngel> hell for all I know he could have coded half of it :-)
[10:37] <toad_> it is inevitable that every so often people will lose patience and go for The New Holy Grail
[10:37] <d-ArkAngel> just trying to explain why he's getting called a troll
[10:37] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> then you haven't been arounf that much. I started off very positivly, and did a lot of things, as a non-coder. But it keeps on and on and on. And now that i2p is coming along, I notice many are going there, and it HAS got its advantages. I feel it is a bit irratic of you guys to be such a bitch about it, because I point that out.
[10:37] <d-ArkAngel> just as long as they don't get distracted by the peril on offer.
[10:38] <toad_> newsbyte: what would you have me do? BE CONSTRUCTIVE, please!
[10:38] <hobx_> can I fight?
[10:38] <d-ArkAngel> hobx_: who's side you on? :-)
[10:38] <hobx_> There was snow all day and nobody wanted to have a snowball fight with me. A little flamewar wouldn't suck at all!
[10:38] <toad_> hobx_: did i restore your +o?
[10:39] <sanity> hi oskar
[10:39] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, for starters, FINALLY come with some new version or something. It's been such a huge, huge, huge time since we've come out with something new
[10:39] <hobx_> is that a question or a veiled threat?
[10:39] <toad_> sanity: is newsbyte a troll?
[10:39] <hobx_> hello Ian.
[10:39] <toad_> newsbyte: we will, when the time and the network are right
[10:39] <sanity> not a troll, because i don't think his motivation is simply to provoke
[10:39] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> heh
[10:39] <toad_> what do you think would happen if we put out a sucky network as 0.6? the network would collapse
[10:40] <toad_> that'd seriously backfire
[10:40] <toad_> and although we might raise some cash it'd be easily outweighed by the hype:performance mess
[10:40] <sanity> but he never says anything useful, just bitches and moans without offering solutions - which is why i ignore him these days
[10:40] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> you see, this is what I don't understand, a moment ago you were saying how good freenet works now, and now it's sucky.
[10:40] <toad_> of course that might be what you want, you i2p defector who doesn't run a stable node yet complains about performance... :|
[10:40] <d-ArkAngel> newbyte you can demand progress all you want, but unless you're going to help it happen then your actions are bound to be fruitless
[10:40] <toad_> newsbyte: we know it collapsed last time
[10:41] <toad_> and it worked well before that
[10:41] <sanity> newsbyte: if I2P is so great, why don't you go an bother them and leave us in peace?
[10:41] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> if it's still sucky, it has been so for the last 2 years. I mean, geez, am I the only one to think that bringing out a new version, for a beta, shouldn't take two years?
[10:41] <d-ArkAngel> the thing is that it's working ok now, but we have yet to find a way to offset floods of new nodes, (or at least demonstrat that it works with floods of new nodes)
[10:42] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> you can call it trolling, but I would like to se ANY projects, open source or not, that in beta doesn't make a new version and still is considered acctive.
[10:42] <d-ArkAngel> newsbyte: yes clearly you are.
[10:42] <toad_> newsbyte: we've had hundreds of new versions
[10:43] <toad_> the decision on whether to release 0.6 is a matter of press, politics, and finances
[10:43] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> fine, fine. I'll try it out again, then, to see how well it works. It's annoying to be called a troll when I'm at most half-a troll ;-)
[10:43] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[10:43] * Ash-Fox (HAL-9000@aat4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[10:44] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> and what about the simulations, what do they show?
[10:44] <d-ArkAngel> things
[10:44] <d-ArkAngel> ;-)
[10:44] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> by now, you must have a good idea?
[10:44] <toad_> they show that the simulations are buggy
[10:44] <toad_> apart from that they show various interesting things
[10:44] <d-ArkAngel> it seems to scale well in some instances, tho some of the simulations results seem to conflict, a problem that we're still looking into
[10:45] <toad_> not sure whether it scales well or not
[10:45] <toad_> yet
[10:46] <toad_> hmmm
[10:46] <toad_> when i want to put out an urgent single bugfix release, all the other bugs come out to play...
[10:46] <d-ArkAngel> sorry I've not done anything about threaded sims in the last couple of weeks toad, my house buying antics have been soaking up rather a lot of my time.
[10:47] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> if it makes you feel more happy, some think I'm a troll there too :-) But then again, it depends on peoples definitions, I guess. For instance, with i2p I have recommended a startbutton for ease-of-use several times. No doubt I will hear 'you've never said anything of value' afterwards too.
[10:48] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: no problem
[10:48] <toad_> well only a problem because i haven't been doing as much as i should for various local reasons also
[10:48] <toad_> :(
[10:49] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> just as I could suggest things to Freenet (which I already have), but usually to no avail. For instance, I could suggest to update the build on sourceforge. Why? Because a collegue of mine made an article (well, rather a reference) to freenet as well, but he pointed to an old build.
[10:50] <toad_> update it to what, exactly?
[10:50] <toad_> 0.5.3 would be illogical
[10:50] <toad_> but 0.6 would be a major problem because of what i said above
[10:50] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, preferably 0.6 ;-)
[10:50] <toad_> 0.6-pre1 would be a possibility, but it's likely to change massively to 0.6
[10:51] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, perhaps, but now you're getting articles pointing to old builds; that can't be helpful neither
[10:52] <toad_> sanity: what's your opinion on calling it pre1, given that it could easily be a year and 20 more pre's before we do 0.6?
[10:52] <sanity> we need to be less squeamish
[10:52] <sanity> we just have to draw a line in the sand, and do it
[10:53] <toad_> management by arbitrary deadlines...
[10:53] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I'm all for that suggestion, Ian, as long as the drawing doesn't take forever :-)
[10:54] <sanity> better arbitrary than none at all
[10:54] <toad_> well, i think i can push out 5100 now
[10:54] <sanity> ok, cool
[10:55] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> So, anyway, as a gesture I will update my flog on freenet as well; I did it for i2p, and since inserts are better, as claimed... but first; is the unstable build still used? Otherwise, I just replace it with stable (on my other puter)?
[10:55] <toad_> kill the unstable node
[10:55] <toad_> unstable is not important at the moment
[10:55] <toad_> if it becomes so in future i will tell the lists
[10:56] <toad_> okay, having fixed the NPEs, it doesn't look so bad.. but the conditions that cause them haven't recurred yet...
[10:56] <toad_> anyway we need to chuck out the primary FT
[10:57] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> did the simulations show NGR and all that is viable? a month ago, it was all oer the maillist, but now so few things (let alone conclusions) are mentionned. (no doubt this will be seen as trolling again, but it IS true)
[10:58] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> btw, toad, shouldn't I wait for the new stable install untill you've fixed those little thingies you talked about?
[10:59] <toad_> sanity: if you think it would help, we could do date based releases instead of actual versions
[10:59] <toad_> i would support deadlines if they corresponded to date based releases and not necessarily to excessive hype
[10:59] <toad_> currently, new version == hype
[11:00] <d-ArkAngel> a release of the month? :-) November edition, December edition... etc?
[11:00] <sanity> its not a deadline, it is just about getting into a mindset of being on a runway towards a release, rather than an endless dev cycle
[11:00] <toad_> e.g. wine releases have been named for their date for years, as have gentoo's...
[11:00] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: 6 monthly, maybe?
[11:01] <toad_> well, i still think we need to do some more on the simulations, but we also need to get on with debugging
[11:01] <toad_> and removing the FT may well yield a significant gain
[11:02] <toad_> why is the FT working at all recently? the obvious reason is nodes are specializing more
[11:02] <toad_> FT is getting a lot more hits, and IMHO that's a good indicator of specialization, unless the people reporting it have massive repeating local load...
[11:02] <sanity> that is a plausible explanation
[11:02] * sdogi (~java@84-50-21-119-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) has joined #freenet
[11:02] <sanity> but i wouldn't assume it to be true
[11:02] <toad_> sure
[11:03] <d-ArkAngel> the problem is that it becomes very hard to test things like specilisation on the live network without compromising anonymity...
[11:03] <sanity> we should be able to see specialisation on individual nodes
[11:04] <d-ArkAngel> I wonder if we could do something like that nodes post statistics for a frost thread or something like that?
[11:04] <d-ArkAngel> s/for a/to a/
[11:04] <toad_> ok committing 5100...
[11:04] <toad_> committed
[11:06] <d-ArkAngel> who's been committed? :-)
[11:06] <d-ArkAngel> sorry :-)
[11:06] <sanity> not me obviously
[11:07] <d-ArkAngel> administrative error possibly? :-)
[11:10] <toad_> hmmm
[11:11] <toad_> unstable builds locally but not on dodo
[11:11] <toad_> strange
[11:13] * sdogi_ (~java@84-50-16-117-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:13] <toad_> uploaded new stable jar...
[11:13] <toad_> uploading tgz
[11:14] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> ok, so..I can d/l 5100?
[11:14] <toad_> yup
[11:15] <toad_> tgz up, source will be up soon
[11:15] <toad_> and barbara squyres has not responded to my email
[11:15] <toad_> so i need a good uk fax2email company...
[11:15] <toad_> don't want to get a second phone line
[11:18] <KenMan> newsbyte - what do you want ? i don't think toad is going to switch to developing i2p. What are you after ?
[11:18] <KenMan> and helped maintain the real website, not only the wiki
[11:18] <KenMan> hobx - did you stomp out mikeeusa recently ? tia if so
[11:18] <KenMan> newsbyte: you shouldn't belittle yourself so much. That could be our job ;)
[11:18] <KenMan> do we know if the failures are occuring rapidly in a short stretch of time ? it could hurt more than help to remove current FT ?
[11:18] <KenMan> sanity meant "better spec is plausible"
[11:18] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> ermm...do I want to uninstall node-configuration and datastore?
[11:19] <toad_> KenMan: no, failure table on one node hits failure table on another node and then vice versa
[11:19] <toad_> so a file can be blocked by the FT for a long time when it ought to be available
[11:19] <toad_> removal of FT might conceivably increase load significantly; if it does, we can do transfer coalescing, no-htl requests, request coalescing etc
[11:20] <d-ArkAngel> pretty poor download rate on that update.sh I notice
[11:20] * sdogi_ (~java@84-50-22-145-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) has joined #freenet
[11:20] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> first of all, I don't see it as one or the other. Has it ever occured to anytone, that a merger of freenet and i2p could be worthwhile? If freenet would make use of i2p, would that be the end of freenet, or a new beginning? All worth thinking about.
[11:21] <toad_> newsbyte: it would be crazy to have freenet use i2p as-is
[11:21] <toad_> because we don't need four extra mixnet hops on each node to node hop
[11:21] <toad_> that would really slow things down
[11:21] <toad_> we've talked about using i2p for premix routin
[11:21] <toad_> g
[11:22] <toad_> jrandom said i2p isn't ready for that yet because freenet has several thousand users and i2p isn't ready for that yet
[11:22] <toad_> jrandom is the i2p developer
[11:22] <toad_> he works full time on it, being infeasibly rich
[11:23] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> lol
[11:23] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I thought he was a pauper-devl, like you :-)
[11:24] <toad_> nope
[11:24] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> anyway, do I want to uninstall node-configuration and datastore(?)
[11:24] <toad_> you want to get rid entirely of the old unstable node
[11:25] <toad_> and install a stable node
[11:25] <toad_> or you could just wipe the RT and replace the jar
[11:25] <d-ArkAngel> infeasibly rich? as in he got granted the pattent on a semi colon and sold it to microsoft? :-)
[11:25] <toad_> probably you'd want to delete the freenet.ini
[11:25] <toad_> to get a new port
[11:25] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: nobody knows, cos he's anonymous :)
[11:25] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, I had the impression, when talking with him. And he DID say he would even be content with 300 euros a month. I remember, because I said: that's a third of what toad asks! I didn't know OSS devs were so cheap! ;-)
[11:26] <d-ArkAngel> real developers like toad are not cheap, it's the code whores like me that are cheap ;-)
[11:27] <d-ArkAngel> and the people that are rich enough not to care of course :-)
[11:27] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, because of your faul mouth, you're still worth a penny or two, rest assured! ;-p
[11:27] <toad_> woah
[11:28] <toad_> it costs ?25/year for fax... or ?55/year for them to encrypt your faxes before sending them to your email box!
[11:30] <d-ArkAngel> lol, they encrypt them by hand??? :-)
[11:30] <d-ArkAngel> or do they just fax them a couple of times so they are unreadable :-)
[11:30] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> ermm...anything wrong with the webinstall?
[11:31] <d-ArkAngel> my update.sh seems to have stalled...
[11:32] <d-ArkAngel> at about 18% of the freenet.jar
[11:32] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> came through too, but it took a while
[11:32] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> however, it gives an error already. here we go again :-/
[11:34] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> it says I don't have JRE installed on that puter, wich is completely false, because I've been having JRE on it since the beginnings of time, space, and sliced bread.
[11:35] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I even just unistalled freenet, which used the f- java
[11:35] <toad_> hmmm found these people online - pumafax.co.uk - couldn't find any complaints against them easily on google.. should use mastercard instead of switch, for safety...
[11:36] * sdogi (~java@84-50-21-119-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:36] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yes, well,there definately is something wrong when the prog says I can't proceed because I don't have java, while I have...
[11:36] <toad_> newsbyte: windows?
[11:36] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> indeed
[11:37] <toad_> hmmm, looks like they did some spam marketing at one point...
[11:37] <toad_> that's not good
[11:37] <toad_> newsbyte: sorry, no idea...
[11:39] <d-ArkAngel> bad marketing could easily be just some bad advice as easily as an indication of a bad company.
[11:39] <d-ArkAngel> tho either is equaly possible
[11:39] <toad_> well i just gave them my card details, so hopefully they're okay..
[11:39] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> now, call it trolling again, but what, do you think, will the reaction be of a noob trying to install freenet, but getting an error he hasn't got java, while he has?
[11:39] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> now, call it trolling again, but what, do you think, will the reaction be of a noob trying to install freenet, but getting an error he hasn't got java, while he has?
[11:41] <toad_> anyone got fax?
[11:41] <toad_> if you could send a test fax to 0870 762 5492, that would help greatly...
[11:42] <toad_> (in the UK - +44)
[11:42] <toad_> also anyone have anywhere I can send a test to?
[11:43] * d-ArkAngel has old fax machine, but no phone line to connect it to at the moment :-) give me a week or two and I might be able to help :-)
[11:43] <toad_> umm, that would be far too late...
[11:43] <d-ArkAngel> as much I had guessed.
[11:44] <d-ArkAngel> you could always send a fax to me at work.... I'd be able to tell you if it arrives.
[11:44] <toad_> sanity might have one
[11:45] <d-ArkAngel> +44 (0) 1642 769478
[11:45] <d-ArkAngel> tho it'd have to be something inocuose, that would be directed to me by name.
[11:45] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: does that involve theft of company stationary?
[11:45] <d-ArkAngel> how is it theft if I don't take it off the property :-) missuse at best.
[11:46] <d-ArkAngel> if you make it out as something sensible... a random Web Hosting cost list from a random website, adressed to me would probably cause no harm
[11:47] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> god damnit. I rebooted it, d/l it it again, tried it all again, it still says it can't find it. It's f- right there. I mean, doesn't the installer check it? Ian always says I'm not suggesting anything worthwhile, well; I suggest to chack the wininstaller for bugs, because it clearly has some.
[11:47] <toad_> suggest you remove all traces of freenet and java
[11:47] <toad_> and then try again
[11:47] <toad_> use the 1.4 jvm
[11:48] <d-ArkAngel> any of the dev's use/maintain the winstaller?
[11:48] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I *did* do a complete uninstall of freenet, as you said I could. No datastore etc should remain.
[11:49] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I think on that puter, it's still 1.4.1. But that isn't the point; it should recognise it, period.
[11:50] <toad_> did you wipe java too?
[11:51] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> no, I didn't. but shouldn't the prog normally check and recognise you have jvm, instead of forcing you to download/install it again?
[11:52] <d-ArkAngel> depends if the jvm is installed properly
[11:52] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I mean, sure, I can d/l 1.5.x, and maybe that will solve my own prob, but it still means something is not koosher with the installation-prog
[11:52] <d-ArkAngel> unless something is broken in your 1.4 jvm install
[11:54] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> it worked just fine with anything else, including the freenet unstable node
[11:55] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> anyway, I'll d/l the new jvm, but there IS something wrong with the wininstaller (make note, so afterwards you don't say I never pointed it out ;-)
[11:55] <d-ArkAngel> well since I don't have a windows machine to test it on, and no experince developing installers for windows I think you'll have to find someoen who does.
[11:57] * toad_ suggests you report it to devl
[11:57] <toad_> or maybe support
[12:03] * d-ArkAngel (~Robert@213-131-104-86.onyx.net) has left #freenet
[12:11] * silent-f1sh (~jaymz@c211-28-49-238.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[12:11] * silent-fish (~jaymz@c211-28-49-238.brodm1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #freenet
[12:13] * Hirvo1 (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
[12:13] * Hirvo1 rebuilds unstable rpms
[12:13] * Hirvo1 is now known as Hirvox
[12:19] <Hirvox> hmm, a compile error..
[12:19] <Hirvox> toad:you around?
[12:20] <bllx> well still getting kernel panic with os X Java 1.4.2 and Freenet, 5099
[12:20] <bllx> it took 3.5 hours but finally panicked :(
[12:21] <Hirvox> how can an userspace program (jvm) cause a kernel panic?
[12:23] <bllx> we dont know
[12:23] <bllx> but other os X users have reported same
[12:23] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> hmm, I see I have already 1.5.0, even on that machine. Maybe it doesn't recognise 1.5.0?
[12:23] <bllx> its the only thing that has ever caused panics on my os X box, in 1 year
[12:24] <Hirvox> I don't doubt that the problem exists, but I'm just wondering how a program (the node) can cause a kernel panic when it's supposed to be isolated from the kernel by two layers (the JVM and userspace)
[12:25] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) has joined #freenet
[12:26] <bllx> its a mystery
[12:32] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> and we all love mysteries ;-)
[12:41] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-234-136.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[12:42] * dalibor (~topic@p5480DB84.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[12:45] <kevloral> newsbyte: no, it doesn't recognize 1.5, that's for sure.
[12:48] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, that helps.
[12:48] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> it's the latest jvm, it's been out a month, but freenet still doesn't recognise it as a jvm?
[12:49] <kevloral> newsbyte: I sent a fix for the wininstaller some days ago, but it hasn't been used yet.
[12:52] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> why not?
[12:52] <kevloral> newsbyte: uh, I don't know. I am not a freenet dev.
[12:54] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> toad, why not?
[12:55] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, I *ain't* gonna revert it to 1.4.1. That means no node running, and no update of my flog. (My loss, no doubt ;-)
[12:57] <kevloral> newsbyte: well, you can fool the installer. Are you comfortable editing the windows registry?
[12:58] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> not at all, but go ahead. :-)
[12:58] <kevloral> newsbyte: ok, open regedit and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment
[12:58] <kevloral> newsbyte: as you have 1.5 installed, you should see a key inside called 1.5 with a field called JavaHome in it
[12:59] <kevloral> newsbyte: you have to create a key called 1.4 in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment
[12:59] <kevloral> newscreate: inside 1.4, create a string field called JavaHome with the same value of your JavaHome in your 1.5 key and that's it. Your installer *should* work.
[13:00] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> can't I just edit the 1.5 into 1.4?
[13:01] <kevloral> newsbyte: yes, you could, but remember to change it back after installing freenet
[13:04] <toad_> lots of downloads successful...
[13:05] <toad_> yes, it doesn't recognize 1.5
[13:05] <toad_> there's a patch for it but it hasn't been applied
[13:05] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> is editing 1.5 into 1.4 in javahome enough?
[13:05] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> maybe it *should* be applied
[13:06] <toad_> newsbyte: i suggest you do as kevloral suggested
[13:06] <toad_> newsbyte: agreed, it should be applied
[13:06] <kevloral> newsbyte: you have to change the name of the key, not the value in that field, i.e: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\1.5 -> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\1.4
[13:07] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> well, I have marginal experience with regedit (which is more then most normal users), but creating stringfields and all that, dunno
[13:08] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yeah, well, I tried that, kev, but it doesn't seem to have worked. Or should I reboot?
[13:08] <toad_> probably a good idea to reboot
[13:09] <kevloral> newsbyte: no, you shouldn't need to reboot (I guess)
[13:11] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> strange the unstable didn't have any prob running with it, though!
[13:11] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> couldn't it be that things get messed up with the uninstall function?
[13:11] <toad_> bbl
[13:12] <kevloral> newsbyte: but... it's just installing Freenet with 1.5 where the problem is. After that, it runs with 1.5 just fine. If it doesn't even run on your computer, then, well, there is another problem in there.
[13:14] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> ?I meant to say that 1.5 worked fine with everything, including the former freenet node (unstable). But I uninstalled freenet, and d/l the latest stable, and now it says it can't find back a jvm
[13:16] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> that said, is it normal to have two dirs under Java runtime Environment?
[13:17] <kevloral> i2p_iip: yes it is (if you still have older versions of the jre on your computer)
[13:18] <Hirvox> toad:you around?
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[13:44] <vsalento> I did a small test. I inserted 32000 bytes sized random files
[13:44] <vsalento> into stable network using htl 2,4,6,..20 and then requested them
[13:44] <vsalento> one by one using htl=3. I repeated this 10 times (totally 100
[13:44] <vsalento> inserts/requests) and result was that 100% inserts succeeded but
[13:44] <vsalento> only 60% requests succeeded and 40% DNF:ed. Can someone explain why?
[13:54] <hobx_> there are no other options
[13:56] <vsalento> hobx_: ?
[13:57] * toad_ (toad@toad-with-underline.active.supporter.pdpc) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[13:57] <hobx_> if 60% of the requests succeed, then 50% have to DNF.
[13:57] <hobx_> if 60% of the requests succeed, then 40% have to DNF.
[13:57] <hobx_> sorry for the confusion.
[13:58] <vsalento> well why didn't all those succeed? don't local node store all of them?
[13:58] <hobx_> Maybe it forgot them
[13:58] <hobx_> people forget things all the time.
[13:59] <vsalento> well it should remember something that was inserted few minutes ago ... there must be some other reason for this!
[14:13] * nextgens (~nextgens@d83-177-135-45.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[14:14] <nextgens> hi
[14:18] * hobx_ (~chatzilla@ankh.math.chalmers.se) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[14:19] <vsalento> nextgens: hi
[14:22] <TheSeeker> is 60256 up in the /snapshots dir yet?
[14:25] <TheSeeker> vsalento: I thought the local node only stored things the user uploaded according the the probalistic caching rules, but I'm not a dev or anything...
[14:30] <sanity> anyone else having trouble reaching freenetproject.org ?
[14:31] <nextgens> sanity: no
[14:31] <sanity> hmmm
[14:31] <nextgens> working fine here ;-)
[14:32] <sanity> hmmmm, now its working for me again too - weird
[14:34] <bllx> i got low download speed (4k/sec) from freenetproject.org a few hours ago
[14:36] <sanity> can anyone get to the login prompt if you ssh to ian@dodo.freenetproject.org ?
[14:38] <kevloral> sanity: yes
[14:38] <sanity> bugger
[14:38] <sanity> ah, actually its my fault
[14:42] * vsalento (~vsalento@cs136227.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:42] * vsalento (~vsalento@cs136227.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
[14:43] * d-ArkAngel (~robert@cpc2-midd2-5-0-cust16.midd.cable.ntl.com) has joined #freenet
[14:43] <d-ArkAngel> evening all
[14:45] <vsalento> evening
[14:47] <linagee> freenet: makes your activity light on your cable modem / dsl modem constantly flicker! :)
[14:47] <d-ArkAngel> that's our new tagline is it? :-)
[14:49] * nextgens thinks that an OP should update the topic ;-)
[14:51] <d-ArkAngel> when is anyone ever +o in this chan? :-)
[14:53] * nextgens changes topic to 'Stable: Upgrade to 5099 (5099 is mandatory) (this is a stable network reset) | Unstable:'
[14:53] <nextgens> Upgrade to 60241 (60234 is mandatory) | Channel logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ |
[14:53] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[14:54] <nextgens> d-ArkAngel: I'll do it :-)
[14:54] <d-ArkAngel> anyone on know anything about buying houses in the UK?
[14:55] * nextgens changes topic to 'Stable: Upgrade to 5100 | Unstable: 60256 | Channel logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ | #freenet-politics and #freenet-chat are available for offtopic discussions'
[14:55] <vsalento> d-ArkAngel: no, but they must be expensive :)
[14:55] <sanity> d-ArkAngel: in that i have bought a house in the UK, I guess i do
[14:55] <d-ArkAngel> because I'm supposed to be moving in next week, and the seller has just pulled out.
[14:55] <nextgens> d-ArkAngel: should I include LastGoodBuild number ?
[14:56] <d-ArkAngel> hmm, I dunno, I think 5100 is only some minor bug fixes rather than upgrades, I think we're probably safe enought with just 5100
[14:56] * Fisu (~fisu@hoas-50dd013b.hoasnet.inet.fi) has left #freenet
[14:58] <d-ArkAngel> which has left me with about a ??2000 hole in my pokect and no damn house. (I'm a little pissed off)
[14:59] <d-ArkAngel> just wondering if there's any realistic way to either get some of that back, or at least avoid that trap on my nect puchase
[14:59] <sanity> d-ArkAngel: were you working through a soliciter?
[14:59] <sanity> solicitor?
[14:59] <d-ArkAngel> yes
[14:59] <sanity> what do they say about it?
[14:59] <d-ArkAngel> mostly "you'd be ok if you lived in scotland"
[15:00] <sanity> ah, i do live in scotland - i have heard horror stories about buying places in the rest of the UK
[15:00] <sanity> :-(
[15:01] <d-ArkAngel> here they can pull out of a sale on the morning of the exchange of keys, no consequences
[15:01] <d-ArkAngel> it's a bloody joke
[15:02] <sanity> yeah, it is rediculous
[15:02] <d-ArkAngel> it'd be like winning a bid on a prgramming contract for a year long job, and then on the 340th day beign allowed to turn arround and say "oh sorry I've changed my mind"
[15:03] <d-ArkAngel> Grrr
[15:03] * nextgens (~nextgens@d83-177-135-45.cust.tele2.fr) has left #freenet
[15:03] * sdogi (~java@84-50-18-63-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) has joined #freenet
[15:03] <d-ArkAngel> Sorry I'll stop moaning about it now and get some work done :-)
[15:03] * jamit (~jamit@modem-2469.crocodile.dialup.pol.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[15:04] <kevloral> mmm... by the way, new version of Frost just released.
[15:07] <sdogi> is toad here
[15:11] * jamit (~jamit@modem-2469.crocodile.dialup.pol.co.uk) Quit ()
[15:12] <sanity> kevloral: not since 2004.05.28 according to the frost website
[15:13] <kevloral> sanity: refresh your web cache
[15:13] <sanity> kevloral: no change
[15:14] <kevloral> sanity: ah, well... the frost website is not updated yet. The new version is on the sourceforge summary page (http://sourceforge.net/projects/jtcfrost)
[15:14] <sanity> ah, ok
[15:14] * sdogi_ (~java@84-50-22-145-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[15:23] <TheSeeker> is freenetproject.org being hammered? I'm getting freenet-unstable-latest.jar at like 1 KB/s
[15:31] * pupok_ (~r00t@cs70112248-25.austin.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[15:32] <sanity> i think sf.net is having issues
[15:32] <sanity> its not just freenet
[15:33] <TheSeeker> so the snapshots dir is really somewhere on sf.net?
[15:35] <TheSeeker> yay, finally done
[15:35] <sanity> yes
[15:35] <Hirvox> compile:
[15:35] <Hirvox> [javac] Compiling 134 source files to /home/hirvox/rpm/BUILD/fred-0.6/build
[15:35] <Hirvox> [javac] /home/hirvox/rpm/BUILD/fred-0.6/src/freenet/node/simulator/Main.java:177: setupErrorLogger(java.lang.String) in freenet.Core cannot be applied to ()
[15:35] <Hirvox> [javac] Core.setupErrorLogger();
[15:35] <Hirvox> [javac] ^
[15:35] <Hirvox> [javac] 1 error
[15:35] <sanity> its probably a temporary problem
[15:36] <sanity> Hirvox: hmz, perhaps look at the cvs logs for that file?
[15:42] * man-di (~man-di@dynadsl-080-228-93-214.ewetel.net) has joined #freenet
[15:42] * pupok (~r00t@cs70112248-25.austin.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[15:42] <man-di> toad is not here anymore
[15:42] <man-di> hmmm
[15:45] * bllx (~leot@host217-44-61-175.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c20cvs for the BeOS today!")
[15:48] * TheSeeker reshacks freenet.exe to allow for a resizable logwindw
[15:48] <TheSeeker> hmm. ok, now how do I make the children resize too? :P
[16:03] <Hirvox> repository updated, latest unstable available, too: http://nightwatch.mine.nu/freenet/
[16:04] <sanity> hirvox: do you know if you have had many hits since linked from freenetproject.org ?
[16:07] <TheSeeker> still seeing a lot of "Consecutive same winner" errors in 60256 :/
[16:07] <sanity> TheSeeker: you should report that to devl
[16:08] <TheSeeker> I've already seen a couple comments about it on devl, and I'm not subscribed to the list :P
[16:08] <sanity> ah, ok
[16:09] <TheSeeker> heh, and of course there's a new build avaliable >.<
[16:10] <sanity> always
[16:10] <vsalento> sorry to bother your discussion but could any one of you explain the large amount of DNF that I got when testing inserts?
[16:10] <sanity> DNFs?
[16:11] <sanity> oh, you mean when requesting a file that you just inserted?
[16:11] <vsalento> well I inserted 100 files into freenet and tried to retrieve them and only could get 60% and 40% gave DNF.
[16:12] * hansbrix (skillio@alb-24-194-91-171.nycap.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[16:12] <vsalento> I varied htl for inserts (2,4,6,..20) and used htl=3 when requesting
[16:12] <vsalento> 100% of inserts were successful
[16:14] <sanity> interesting
[16:14] <sanity> of course, htl=3 is very low for a request, regardless of the insert HTL
[16:15] <vsalento> but shouldn't local node cache them all?
[16:15] <sanity> oh, i assumed you were requesting from a different node
[16:16] <sanity> if not, that is *very* unusual
[16:16] <TheSeeker> I was told that it would be a security risk to cache all content that you publish...
[16:16] <sanity> i can't recall, i think nodes probably don't cache locally on inserts
[16:16] <vsalento> I did request them from the same node I used to insert them. Those that were retrieved it took only about 1 second to retrieve it
[16:17] <sanity> either way, i would email devl for toad to comment
[16:17] <TheSeeker> "this node has every part of this 600 MB file, he must have been the one that published it, because everyone else only caches parts that are in their keyspace specialization"
[16:18] <TheSeeker> or something
[16:19] <TheSeeker> granted, the (corporate/government) entity would have to isolate you from the rest of the network and surround you exclusively with compromized nodes to prove that kind of thing I think... *shrug*
[16:20] <vsalento> sorry... when looking results more closely there are few (about 10%) requests that took about a minute when most took only 0-1 seconds
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[16:35] * man-di (~man-di@dynadsl-080-228-93-214.ewetel.net) Quit ("Client exiting")
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[16:58] <linagee> ack. another version change?
[17:00] <TheSeeker> gets rid of the failure table
[17:01] * FallingBuzzard (~srademach@207.152.112.129) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:01] <linagee> TheSeeker: failure table?
[17:02] <linagee> what did that do?
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[17:08] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:10] <sanity> prevented repeated requests for keys which did not exist in the network
[17:25] <cbreak> It allowed your node to not only store keys with content, but also holes in the keyspace.
[17:27] <cbreak> I have still failure table data on /servlet/nodeinfo/internal/ftable despite having 5100
[17:56] <linagee> do earlier versions of freenet work?
[17:56] <linagee> say i had like 3xxx?
[18:00] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-234-136.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[18:01] <cbreak> they work as they did back when they where released. but without peers you won't be satisfied.
[18:02] <cbreak> and since the newer versions are a few magnitudes faster, you should use them...
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[18:20] <mj-> hi guys, could anyone tell if fcpos.writeByte(00000002); is the correct way to actuvate the fcp port using java, thanks. havin a bit of a noob freeze
[18:21] <mj-> :-(
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.