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[3:24] <SiegeX> question, im behind a NAT and im going to set the 'ipaddress' field in my .ini file, the website says that you have to have it in x.x.x.x format, but the comment hints that you might be able to use domain names if your ip is dynamic
[3:24] <SiegeX> so which one is it? can i use a domain?
[3:34] <hobx> yes
[3:34] <hobx> the name and documentation is dumb. We apologize for the inconvenience.
[3:35] <hobx> bit remember that you need to forward the port as well.
[3:35] <SiegeX> ok, so domain name is OK?
[3:35] <SiegeX> and thanks for the reminder, ill make sure to forwarded it now
[3:37] <hobx> I think you may be suffering from temporal slippage.
[3:38] <SiegeX> well didnt quite understand what you meant by 'name' in "the name and documentation is dumb." so i wanted to make sure
[3:38] <hobx> Better chromostabilizer to the shop before something embarrassing happens.
[3:38] <hobx> I mean that it is dumb to call the field "ipaddress" when it can be a domain name.
[3:39] <SiegeX> ah, gotcha.
[3:39] <SiegeX> well I appreciate the help
[3:39] <SiegeX> and ill be sure to look into the chromostabilizerthingamajig :)
[3:41] <spaetz> hehe, morning all
[3:43] <hobx> morning spaetz
[3:44] <SiegeX> is it common to have the proxy page im connecting to take a long ass time to load the thumbnail images
[3:44] <SiegeX> im thinking it might be because of the extra routing that freenet does to help keep you anonymous
[3:44] <hobx> I want to go running. But it is like ten degrees under outside.
[3:45] <hobx> I heard somewhere that that is not healthy.
[3:45] <hobx> Siegx: It is common that it takes a mega long ass time. And it is common that they fail to load at all.
[3:46] <hobx> This program does not work as well as advertised.
[3:47] <SiegeX> heh so it seems. Well I think more push from the *IAA will help speed up the refinement process
[3:47] * hobx hates getting up in the morning and not having any mail. Is a little spam too much to ask for?
[3:48] <hobx> SiegeX: don't hold your breath.
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[4:03] <SiegeX> hobx: have you used frost?
[4:08] <hobx> Didn't I just say it was ten under outside here.
[4:08] <SiegeX> lol
[4:09] <hobx> No, I haven't.
[4:10] <SiegeX> i think ill come back to freenet in a year or two, not what i thought it would be
[4:12] <hobx> sorry to dissapoint
[4:12] <hobx> You were looking for RIAA proof file sharing?
[4:14] <SiegeX> well sorta, my idea of how it worked was a bit differnt, i thought it was mainly a p2p file sharing network ala gnutella. Looks more like an internet within an internet
[4:14] <SiegeX> excpet with much more lag
[4:15] <SiegeX> not much of a music d/l'er, i think id have more problems with the MPAA than RIAA
[4:16] <hobx> I think "an internet within an internet excpet with much more lag" pretty much pins it, yeah.
[4:16] <hobx> Movie downloading free from the MPAA would require something very different I think,
[4:17] <SiegeX> ya, actually I dont d/l, i just use blockbusters movie pass and rent them.
[4:17] <SiegeX> i tend to mostly download games and tech e-books
[4:17] <hobx> what is needed is a file sharing tool that does limited sharing (from friends and friends of friends) and then allows a lot of proxying through different people.
[4:17] <hobx> It wouldn't be that difficult. I don't know why nobody has done it yet.
[4:18] <SiegeX> hmm, ive never used it but perhaps you have, sounds vaugly familiar to what dc++ does
[4:18] <SiegeX> not sure about the proxy part
[4:18] <hobx> nah
[4:19] <hobx> dc just sets up public hubs where people join who just share enough stuff.
[4:19] <hobx> By any account, dc is less safe than any of the other networks.
[4:20] <SiegeX> ya, had a coworker who used dc because he thought the other networks were too unsafe
[4:20] <SiegeX> later i read how the fbi infiltrated a large hub
[4:20] <hobx> well, the argument might be "under the radar as of yet" but I'm not sure about that.
[4:20] <hobx> Same thing with bt.
[4:20] <SiegeX> i think like you, id much rather be a tiny fish in a large pond that anybody can toss their hook into, than a big fish in a small private pond and hope nobody hops the fence
[4:21] <hobx> profound
[4:21] <hobx> :-)
[4:21] <SiegeX> hehe, never thought id get so deep on a p2p issue ;)
[4:22] <SiegeX> my p2p client of choice is emule, nowhere near the speed of bt but if it can be found on p2p network, emule/donkey seems to find it which i like.
[4:30] <spaetz> hobx: re friends of friends file sharing. There are a few attempts
[4:30] <spaetz> Apparently downhillbattle.??? starts a project (at least they collected donations) to make a gaim IM plugin for file sharing
[4:31] <spaetz> A similar thing is groupster, also tied within an IM app
[4:31] <spaetz> But the latter one might be commercial, I don't know
[4:31] <spaetz> Darn, I'd like to go running, but it's like freezin -1 degrees out there :)
[4:32] <SiegeX> i think i just read about those on /. not to long ago
[4:32] <spaetz> Freenet: "An Interner within the Internet". I like that
[4:32] <spaetz> SiegeX: That's where I got that from as well
[4:32] <SiegeX> spaetz: and the misspelling of 'internet' gives it some flava :)
[4:33] <spaetz> ooops. :)))
[4:33] <spaetz> SiegeX: Freenet is basically ass-slow. So *file-sharing* might be a pain in the butt with it
[4:33] <SiegeX> ya, the ass-slow part was definitely apparent
[4:34] <spaetz> It seems to work... ok ... for texts and stuff
[4:34] <SiegeX> is that because of all the ineffcient routing it does to make stuff more anon?
[4:35] <spaetz> SiegeX: I'm not involved in the development, so I can't tell you. But toad, the main developer is currently doing a lot of simulations to find out why...
[4:35] <spaetz> routing is certainly an issue. Just finding the right stuff is not so easy when the network grows
[4:36] <spaetz> and the fact that it's pretty anonyous, so you can't easily tell how big the actual network is. And network effects are happening, ie. bug fixes taking effect only if a majority of the network ugrades
[4:36] <spaetz> desn't make it any easier
[4:37] <spaetz> hobx: get you lazy wiking ass up and go running. -10 is not that bad :-)
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[4:37] <SiegeX> that makes alot of sense
[4:37] <SiegeX> anon sure does have its downsides
[4:38] <spaetz> morning Ash-Fox
[4:38] <Ash-Fox> gooday
[4:39] <spaetz> good idea anyway. I'm out running for a while. BBL
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[4:47] <hobx> it is good that somebody is getting exercize...
[4:49] <spaetz> hobx: still looking for my running shoes
[4:49] <spaetz> I must have put the somewhere last time I ran, but I can'tt remember :)
[4:50] <spaetz> Settlers of Katan, is a cool one
[4:50] <spaetz> oops
[4:50] <hobx> haha. It sounds like you need it more than me.
[4:53] <spaetz> Found them :). And out I am. See you guys. If I'm not back in an hour, call an ambulance :)
[4:53] * spaetz is now known as spaetzRunning
[4:56] <hobx> what I have I done!
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[6:01] <vsalento> spaetz: well was it too cold there to run?
[6:07] <spaetz> vsalento: around zero degrees. It's ok if you run fast enough to keep worm :)
[6:07] <spaetz> warm, even
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[12:24] <kevloral> g'afternoon all
[12:25] <KenMan> hola kevloral !
[12:26] <kevloral> KenMan: :-)
[12:26] <KenMan> out of boredom, or curiosity, or whatever, I've turned toad's sim into a DHT.
[12:27] <KenMan> arrangement of the connections is critical for pSuccess. In the best of situations, it can do 97-100% success.
[12:28] <KenMan> however, if I construct the connections randomly, success drops significantly.
[12:29] <KenMan> key redundancy behavior is very similar to the NGR configuration
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[14:12] <KenMan> the goal of NGR is to identify and use the optimal connections (basically the highest bw links)
[14:12] <KenMan> but otherwise , finding a piece of data should take precendence over finding it fast. Me thinks.
[14:15] <KenMan> if speed is not a consideration, then we would desire to use the most accurate routing / path possible.
[14:16] <KenMan> in a DHT, connections for a node are selected such that they create a binary tree of 'spec points' giving maximum network span
[14:16] <KenMan> and providing a log(n) max path length to finding the data
[14:17] <KenMan> in FreeNet, the set of connections are initially assumed randomly, and over time we attempt to refine them
[14:18] <KenMan> without the strict DHT formula for choosing connections, freenet will never achieve anything close to log(n) path-length reachability
[14:19] <KenMan> well, we hope to, and have not yet proved that we CANNOT approximate it. But i won't hold my breath.
[14:21] <KenMan> also, with DHT, a node has a single "perfect" specialization (for the DS anyway)
[14:22] <KenMan> FreeNet is attempting to support an unlimited number of spec points, which erodes the univeral 'key X belongs on node Y' approach of a DHT
[14:25] <KenMan> in a DHT, each connection has a perfect specialization (that of the destination end's DS)
[14:25] <KenMan> in FreeNet, each connection can have almost infinite specialization points, limited only by our ability to estimate (buckets in SBKE)
[14:29] <KenMan> if we limited each route to a single spec point, then each node would still have 50 (RT) different requestors each with a different estimated spec point
[14:29] <KenMan> so it becomes crucial that multiple requestors develop somewhat common estimates of that central node
[14:30] <KenMan> this is the magic part of freenet that is supposed to 'emerge' on its own
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[14:32] <KenMan> shifting to 32KB keys (more, smaller transfers) could help this emergence, if it is going to happen at all
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[14:43] <man-di> hmm, no toad here
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[15:21] <Erlang> Anyone here familiar with the concept of Plaxton mesh?
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[15:25] <Erlang> hm, guess not
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[17:28] <kevloral> g'evening all
[17:29] <Usurp> hi kevloral
[17:31] <Usurp> is it ok to have NoSuchMethodException into freenet.log ?
[17:32] <kevloral> Usurp: I don't know, sorry.
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[22:17] <TheSeeker> Is the latest unstable build really as old as Oct 25?
[22:30] <mikeDOTd> probably
[22:31] <mikeDOTd> development has pretty much stopped since they built the simulator
[22:39] <TheSeeker> ah, hmm
[22:51] * mikeDOTd jumps on his soapbox
[22:51] <mikeDOTd> what is the state of Freenet?
[22:51] <mikeDOTd> the mailing lists suggest the network is falling apart
[22:52] <mikeDOTd> there hasn't been a significant update since October
[22:52] <mikeDOTd> and little positive output has come from the simulations
[22:53] <mikeDOTd> so what exactly is going on? has development stopped?
[22:53] * mikeDOTd hops off
[22:59] <TheSeeker> perhaps more thinking is going on before coding is done?
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[23:34] <kmag> So... after about a year and a half, I decided to fire up freenet once again
[23:34] <kmag> I downloaded the unstable version
[23:35] <kmag> and I can get the GPL
[23:35] <kmag> but nothing else
[23:35] <kmag> is the network currently experiencing problems?
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[23:36] <mikeDOTd> it takes some time to integrate, and there are reports that the network isn't performing as well as it used to
[23:37] <kmag> right... I gave it a few hours of repeatedly trying to get TFE while I was watching TV
[23:38] <kmag> would stable likely perform better?
[23:38] <mikeDOTd> there's also reports that TFE isn't being inserted
[23:38] <mikeDOTd> stable should perform better
[23:38] <kmag> markedly better?
[23:39] <kmag> I'd prefer to help out a bit by using unstable
[23:39] <kmag> I quit using freenet before due to bandwidth being sucked up
[23:40] <kmag> but the new roomate doesn't use as much bandwidth
[23:40] <kmag> so I don't think he'll notice the difference
[23:43] <kmag> so it's likely that I just need to give it more time?
[23:43] <kmag> and keep searching?
[23:47] * sdogi (~java@84-50-18-231-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.