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[7:49] <nextgens> hi
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[8:11] <caddy> er ... hi everyone.
[8:11] <caddy> i got a question please.
[8:11] <caddy> well ... as I understand it, secure browsers like mozilla forbid access to files on the local hard disk.
[8:12] <caddy> is there any way to override this feature for special IPs, without switching it off completely?
[8:12] <caddy> and b) if not, is this an important feature?
[8:12] <caddy> 'cause I've figured out that I could speed up page loads by letting all those /servlet/images/ links point to a local directorxy
[8:12] <caddy> -x
[8:13] <caddy> and also reduce the load on freenet (less connections).
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[11:05] <Redb3ard> De'wI'ghomrartlhab
[11:05] <Redb3ard> freenet in klingon ;)
[11:10] <Ribs> geek
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[11:50] <sanity> anyone interested in helping me try something out?
[11:51] <sanity> if so, try downloading http://dodo.freenetproject.org/~ian/dijjer-20041114.jar
[11:52] <sanity> then run it with "java -jar dijjer-20041114.jar"
[11:52] <sanity> it will print some debugging cruft - don't worry about that
[11:53] <sanity> then try downloading "http://127.0.0.1:9115/http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/3/i386/iso/FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc1.iso"
[11:53] <sanity> just download it through your web-browser
[11:53] <sanity> after a few seconds you should start to get the file
[11:54] <sanity> possibly longer than a few seconds :-)
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[11:55] <goatee> Does this program support resuming?
[11:55] <sanity> goatee: not right now, but it will very soon, i just need to add a few lines of code
[11:56] <goatee> Does it save the file locally? Or is all the data sent to the browser, meaning that resuming will depend on the browser?
[11:56] <sanity> resuming will depend on the browser
[11:56] <sanity> the proxy supports HTTP 1.1 range requests (or soon will), which is what browsers use to resume downloads
[11:57] <goatee> What if the seed goes offline? Will users suffer the same fate as bitTorrent users where everyone is stuck at xx%?
[11:57] <sanity> well, the seed is the web server
[11:58] <sanity> the client does a HEAD request on the URL to get some data when it starts the download, so if the server is down it will 404
[11:58] <sanity> this is deliberate, the software is designed to fit within the system caching exemption of the DMCA (and similar laws outside the US)
[11:59] <goatee> So I'm downloading partially from mirrors.kernel.org?
[11:59] <sanity> goatee: as you are the first downloader, you are essentially downloading the entire file from there - or rather, the P2P network is
[12:00] <sanity> goatee: subsequent downloaders will get it from the P2P network - just as with a HTTP cache
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[12:01] <goatee> How do I create a dijjer download?
[12:01] <goatee> Can I just put whatever URL I want, and run with it?
[12:01] <sanity> yes
[12:01] <goatee> sweet
[12:02] <sanity> provided it is on a HTTP 1.1 compliant server, which is virtually all of them
[12:02] <sanity> this is my weekend project to kill BitTorrent :-)
[12:02] <sanity> it also does UDP NAT and Firewall circumvention
[12:02] <sanity> so you don't need to reconfigure your NAT
[12:03] <goatee> Will it work with html pages?
[12:03] <sanity> it should, but since they are small that is probably pointless
[12:03] <sanity> it is really intended for large files
[12:03] <sanity> how is your download going?
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[12:04] <sanity> (i just added a new peer to the network, now there are three including yours - each will share the work of pulling the file off the web server)
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[12:04] <sanity> soon it will be able to tell you how much of the file is coming from the p2p network, and how much from the server
[12:04] <goatee> 12.6 Mb @ 22 KB/s
[12:04] <sanity> not bad
[12:05] <sanity> could you verify the integrity of the file when it downloads (ie. try to decompress)?
[12:05] <goatee> Is it complicated?
[12:05] <sanity> the code?
[12:05] <sanity> its simpler than freenet :-)
[12:05] <goatee> trying to decompress
[12:06] <sanity> it is based on a greatly simplified version of Freenet's routing algorithm
[12:06] <sanity> combined with a few other tricks and neat ideas
[12:06] <goatee> How does it find peers anyways?
[12:06] <sanity> but when finished it will be light-years ahead of any other distributed caches (*cough* BitTorrent *cough*)
[12:06] <goatee> With no tracker, and the server obviously won't give out that kind of info
[12:07] <sanity> there is one "seed" peer that it connects to initially, from there it bootstraps its way into the network
[12:07] <goatee> So I connect to a network of seeds, and say "who's downloading file x"?
[12:07] <sanity> nope
[12:08] <sanity> it connects to a node that I run, and says "i have no friends, please introduce me to some peers"
[12:08] <sanity> from there it gets connected to a few peers
[12:09] <sanity> from there it uses a freenet-like routing algorithm to find pieces of the file
[12:09] <goatee> but these peers aren't necessarily downloading the file I want, right?
[12:09] <sanity> if a piece can't be found, it is downloaded from the web server and pulled into the network
[12:09] <sanity> no, they are just some people through whom you search for people who are caching the pieces you want
[12:10] <sanity> in that sense it is similar to Freenet
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[12:10] <sanity> you should be around 20MB into the file - right?
[12:11] <goatee> I see, and if they find someone that's caching a file I want, do they refer him to me? Or do they forward the file/data?
[12:11] <goatee> yup, exactly 20.0MB in fact
[12:11] <sanity> they forward it, intermediates cache the file
[12:11] <sanity> that way it adaptively caches files, popular files get more widely cached so it is better-able to handle the slashdot effect than BitTorrent
[12:12] <goatee> So I can be caching a file that I don't know about. Is it encrypted?
[12:12] <sanity> onpe
[12:12] <sanity> nope
[12:13] <goatee> So if someone requests illegal files, and it gets cached on my node, I'll be able to see that?
[12:14] <sanity> well, you will be able to see small pieces of the files
[12:14] <sanity> but it isn't designed to distribute illegal files, it is designed to distribute legal stuff with the consent of the copyright holder - ie. it isn't Freenet nor is it trying to be :-)
[12:15] <sanity> if someone puts an illegal file on it - then they are no safer than if they just put it on a web server, so that wouldn't really be a bright idea
[12:15] <goatee> right, exactly
[12:16] <sanity> again, its designed to fit within the caching exemption of the DMCA - the intention here is not to facilitate illegal activity
[12:17] <sanity> 25MB done?
[12:17] <sanity> (i can see pieces of the file being requested by your node on the peers i am running)
[12:18] <goatee> 25.1 @ 17 KB/s
[12:18] <sanity> goatee: you have the dubious honour of being the first person ever, apart from me, to download a file through it :-)
[12:18] <goatee> Shouldn't it be faster if I'm downloading from the main server as well?
[12:19] <sanity> yes, but it is limited because:
[12:19] <sanity> 1) there are only 3 nodes in the network
[12:19] <sanity> 2) your node is only doing 2 concurrent requests at a time
[12:19] <goatee> It is an honour!
[12:19] <sanity> about 1 in 3 downloads are done by your node, they will be fast
[12:19] <sanity> the rest will be at about 10k/sec
[12:20] <sanity> the speed is hardwired right now to be about half the typical broadband upload speed
[12:20] <sanity> but i will make it adapt based on ping roundtrip time like TCP
[12:20] <sanity> goatee: so, what do you think - a BitTorrent killer? :-)
[12:21] <sanity> (bearing in mind that this is 2 weeks work, and i have 2 months to finish it)
[12:21] <goatee> Well BT will still be used for illegal files
[12:21] <goatee> And for more P2P stuff where there's no http server
[12:22] <goatee> But definitely will be useful for what BT was intended for
[12:22] <sanity> well, BT requires a tracker, which is at least as difficult to set up as a web server
[12:23] <sanity> a BT tracker is essentially the equivalent of a web server, the difference is most people are already using web servers to distribute stuff
[12:23] <sanity> ...and a BT tracker is more complicated
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[12:24] <sanity> when its working reasonably well i will release it under the GPL
[12:24] <goatee> Yea, I can see people who currently use BT to distribute stuff switch over to this
[12:24] <sanity> but i want to keep a low profile until then, so please keep this quiet :-)
[12:25] <goatee> ok, I won't tell anyone
[12:25] <sanity> also note that its 60k :-) also, its Java 1.1 compliant which means that it works on free JVMs, and can be compiled to native code using gcc/gcj
[12:26] <goatee> sweet
[12:26] <sanity> well, its not *that* big a secret, just don't submit anything to slashdot :-)
[12:26] <sanity> its finished?
[12:26] <sanity> oh, maybe not
[12:26] <goatee> It's going to make caching easier, because with BT, you have to download the whole file to create the .torrent
[12:27] <sanity> indeed, here you just need to know the url, the actual publisher of the content doesn't even have to lift a finger
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[21:40] <Redb3ard> anyone here?
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.