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[8:18] <toad_> http://nightwatch.mine.nu/freenet/
[8:19] <toad_> nice
[8:19] <toad_> |The rpm-build package provides one (/usr/src/redhat), but due to security concerns, you shouldn't build packages as root.
[8:19] <toad_> eh?
[8:19] <toad_> you're going to install them!
[8:19] <toad_> what possible security concerns could there be?!
[8:22] <Redb3ard> hey toad, whats up?
[8:29] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) Quit ("Going to the moon")
[8:40] <plixed_> toad_: some .spec files are badly written and install stuff in the system during %install before packaging
[8:42] <plixed_> toad_: bad %build_install_dir (or so) that point to / instead of /var/tmp/<packagename>
[8:43] <plixed_> toad_: and not all stuff that gets into the build install dir is also packaged
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[9:41] <KenMan> hi mr toad_
[9:42] <KenMan> here is a new graphic - http://mywebpages.comcast.net/FreeNet/nl.png
[9:43] <KenMan> from left to right it shows load per node, as you travel up the plane, that is time (sim cycles)
[9:46] <KenMan> the yellow streaks show where the greatest concentration of requests are occurring
[9:52] <KenMan> this particular demo is 200 nodes wide, and 10M requests deep (1000 cycles of 10K)
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[10:03] <kevloral> g'afternoon all
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[10:18] <KenMan> hola kev !
[10:53] <KenMan> toad_ here is the correct URL for the graphic - http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jkcorson/FreeNet/nl.png
[10:54] <KenMan> I wanted to make something more 3D, but at this resolution, using colors is best
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[11:20] <kevloral> re
[11:24] <toad_> hi
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[12:22] <toad_> KenMan: uhh, what's that supposed to show?
[12:23] <toad_> ahhh
[12:23] <toad_> so it gets more centralized as time goes on?
[12:29] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-400x50-kaput.png
[12:29] <toad_> urgh
[12:32] <toad_> hmmm
[12:32] <toad_> when we do estimator passing in the current code, we end up giving both sides the StoreData estimators...
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[12:46] <toad_> hey, that might just have been the bug... graphs soon
[12:47] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-short.png
[12:47] <toad_> observe yellow
[12:47] <toad_> that's the new code
[12:47] <toad_> on HTL 11
[12:49] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-short-raw.png
[12:49] <toad_> that's the less-averaged data
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[12:51] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[12:51] <toad_> just the new line...
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[13:01] <|UK-Monster|> bo
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[13:02] <leexgx> this smooth wall ant secure
[13:03] * leexgx is now known as leexgx-fixingpc
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[13:27] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[13:27] <toad_> blue and purple are with the new code...
[13:28] <toad_> looks promising!
[13:28] <toad_> this is running on servalan for now...
[13:29] <toad_> but it can't forever, because i also want to debug freenet, as well as do freenet sims :)
[13:29] <toad_> i might move it to hard-core...
[13:29] <toad_> i think the simsave's are working now...
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[13:36] <toad_> wb monster
[13:36] <toad_> :)
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[13:50] <|UK-Monster|> lo toad_
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[13:50] <lee-mesin-router> ipcop is far better
[13:51] <lee-mesin-router> it blocks UDP where shoothwall was not!
[13:52] <lee-mesin-router> whats confusing me is some times the port 80 is cloesed and some times its firewalled ?
[13:53] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[13:53] <toad_> hmmmm
[13:53] <toad_> what is up with blue?
[13:54] <toad_> are there more EvilSimulatorBugs ?
[13:55] <lee-mesin-router> whats blue
[13:56] <toad_> the blue line on the above graph...
[13:56] <toad_> if it turns out long term to be better than red, i'll just ignore it
[13:56] <toad_> i.e. chalk it up to misc bug fixes
[13:57] <toad_> but if it doesn't, there's another Big Sim Bug...
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[14:13] * toad_ thinks he ought to commit this code soon
[14:13] <toad_> robilad: hey
[14:13] <robilad> heya toad_ :)
[14:14] <toad_> I may just have fixed the Really Annoying simulator bug (introduced in refactoring weeks ago, causes really crap results).. http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[14:14] <toad_> how's things your end?
[14:14] <toad_> been any activity with any other java apps that use NIO?
[14:15] <toad_> are there any other java apps that use NIO, that people actually USE ? :)
[14:17] <toad_> hmmm, this is rather disturbing... light blue is WAY above purple
[14:17] <toad_> might just be an averaging glitch, or a randomness glitch...
[14:17] <robilad> busy, pretty busy.
[14:18] <robilad> i'm trying to catch up with a week of merging from classpath :)
[14:18] <robilad> there has been a lot of work there
[14:18] <robilad> and we've got some new core devs
[14:18] <robilad> so things are going faster than usual :)
[14:30] <toad_> yay
[14:30] <toad_> corporate?
[14:31] <toad_> robilad: corporate?
[14:31] <robilad> corporate? nope. the normal kind ;)
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[14:34] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[14:34] <toad_> hmmm
[14:34] <toad_> the only difference between dark blue and brown, and between purple and light blue, is that the upper one has a bugfix that prevents it from occasionally losing a node
[14:35] <toad_> why does it make such a huge difference?
[14:35] <toad_> i'm pretty sure the LRU is right-way-up
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[15:01] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: hi
[15:01] <toad_> here?
[15:01] <d-ArkAngel> yup
[15:01] <toad_> ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[15:01] <d-ArkAngel> hullo
[15:02] <toad_> that bug was present EVER SINCE I INTRODUCED ESTIMATOR PASSING !
[15:02] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-24-134.cust.tele2.fr) Quit ("Leaving")
[15:02] <toad_> that invalidates all the old graphs for all sizes...
[15:02] <toad_> yay!
[15:02] <d-ArkAngel> what bug?
[15:02] <toad_> well all the ones with estimator passing anyway
[15:02] <d-ArkAngel> the dropping the best estimator?
[15:02] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[15:02] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: no
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[15:03] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: A->B->C->D. D sends back data and storedata pointing to self. A gets this, with an estimator for D from C.
[15:03] <toad_> it uses this to enter D into its RT
[15:03] <toad_> unfortunately, the back connect uses the same estimator !
[15:03] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[15:03] <toad_> i.e. D gets the same estimator for C
[15:04] <d-ArkAngel> fun
[15:04] <d-ArkAngel> how much difference is that giving in performance terms?
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[15:04] <toad_> one way to improve on this is to use a blank estimator, which is what I'm doing in purple and light blue
[15:04] <toad_> the other way would be to use B's estimator for A, via an extra pass through the chain
[15:05] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-24-134.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[15:05] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[15:05] <d-ArkAngel> that's how I did it in the threaded one that I started writeing.
[15:05] <toad_> compare purple to green/red ...
[15:05] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: eh?
[15:05] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: what is?
[15:06] <d-ArkAngel> well I implemented the estimator passing in the parallel sim I started (but haven't had chance to work on recently)
[15:06] <toad_> and you used a blank estimator?
[15:06] <toad_> for the backconnect?
[15:06] <d-ArkAngel> no, B's estimator for A
[15:06] <toad_> and the passed estimator for the forwardconnect?
[15:06] <d-ArkAngel> basicaly I did it like this
[15:06] <d-ArkAngel> if you're the request source you pass a request with a blank space in it for and estimator
[15:07] <toad_> well that's interesting, but bear in mind you're not simulating the current algo; we need to be able to compare it
[15:07] <d-ArkAngel> and if you get passed a request with a blank space in it you fill it in with your estimator of the peer that passed the request
[15:07] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad_: what's the x axis? y is routing probability success isn't it ?
[15:08] <toad_> JabberBot: # requests (i.e. time)
[15:08] <d-ArkAngel> I thought that was how the estimator passing was supposed to work... which was why I coded it that way...
[15:08] <toad_> the numbers aren't accurate
[15:08] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: estimator passing works one way only
[15:08] <lee-mesin-router> toad_ i had to restart freenet coes it was trying to much to upload
[15:08] <toad_> lee-mesin-router: so change the outputBandwidthLimit ?
[15:08] <lee-mesin-router> 73 uploads and 80 downloads
[15:08] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: the estimator on the StoreData comes back to us
[15:08] <lee-mesin-router> its set low
[15:09] <d-ArkAngel> is there a reason not to pass a estimator the other way as well?
[15:09] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad: so your goal is to make "newbie" node "integrating" the network faster, isn"t it?
[15:10] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: well, it's not implemented; it might be a good idea, and I've suggested it, but you'd need to simulate with and without to make a convincing case
[15:10] <toad_> one good reason not to implement it is that you'd have to pass a reference FORWARDS
[15:11] <toad_> i.e. you'd have RequestSource on the request
[15:11] <toad_> which would be reset with DataSource
[15:11] <d-ArkAngel> should be easy enough to turn it off tho.
[15:11] <toad_> but nonetheless it'd give significant extra info to an attacker
[15:11] <d-ArkAngel> in the code I've written I mean
[15:11] <toad_> also it'd use loads of bandwidth for small files
[15:11] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[15:12] <toad_> brown is still way below red/green
[15:12] <toad_> something wierd is happening
[15:12] <toad_> there's probably still another Big Sim Bug...
[15:13] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[15:17] <toad_> but i have no idea how to find it :(
[15:19] <toad_> doing estimator passing both ways would definitely be a security problem
[15:19] <toad_> there may be ways to make it secure
[15:19] <toad_> but it'd be an issue...
[15:20] <d-ArkAngel> how would it be less secure than the other way?
[15:20] <toad_> well, StoreData probabilistically gives away the address of the data source
[15:20] <toad_> doing it backwards would probabilistically give away the address __of the requestor__ !
[15:20] <JabberBot> nextgens a chang? le sujet par: IRC bridge with #freenet on irc.freenode.org
[15:21] <d-ArkAngel> ahhh, I see.
[15:21] <toad_> the requestor is a lot more vulnerable than the data source
[15:22] <toad_> opening the connection also gives away the requestor (probabilistically), but ONLY to the node it actually connects to (and any snoopers)
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[15:24] <toad_> so, what next..?
[15:25] <toad_> purple and dark-blue are unfortunately running on servalan...
[15:25] <toad_> meaning that if I want to work on the node, I have to either stop or kill them.. or move them
[15:26] <toad_> moving them is not straightforward
[15:37] <toad_> hmmm
[15:37] <toad_> somebody made a change to the sim...
[15:38] <toad_> doesn't seem to have shown up...
[15:39] * toad_ checks what the changes were
[15:40] <toad_> hmm, perhaps not...
[15:44] <toad_> committed
[15:44] <toad_> but brown is still falling...
[15:45] <toad_> hmmm
[15:47] <toad_> i think i need to run them longer
[15:47] <toad_> and show that brown/dark-blue definitely have a major problem
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[15:56] <toad_> hmmm
[15:56] <toad_> brown seems to be turning upwards...
[15:57] <toad_> if it just takes a bit longer to stabilize, that's okay, albeit annoying
[15:57] <toad_> s/stabilize/stop-falling-the-first-time
[15:59] <toad_> btw the x axis IS accurate for 100 nodes...
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[16:04] * lee-mesin-router thinks about going to sleep
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[16:05] <lee> router works but cant turn off ping
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[16:06] <kyll> hey, i just installed freenet and started it. i have a problem tho, freenet is not listening on any port eventho it is running. could it be because it tryes to open a port on my extern ip (i use nat and have defined my internet ip as ipAddress in freenet.conf) and fails because my OS only got a 192.168.1.x ip?
[16:08] <Hirvox> are you using unstable or stable?
[16:08] <kyll> stable
[16:09] <Hirvox> stable should listen on 0.0.0.0 (any ip) regardless whether ipAddress is set or not
[16:09] <kyll> ok
[16:09] <Hirvox> it should listen on 8888, 8891, 8481 and whatever your FNP port is
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[16:10] <kyll> its set to 8481
[16:10] <Hirvox> don't set your FNP port to 8481, the FCP port is 8481 by default
[16:10] <kyll> sec
[16:11] <kyll> incoming FNP is 14010 and FCP is 8481
[16:11] <Hirvox> yeah, that's how it should be
[16:12] <kyll> ok
[16:12] <Hirvox> do you use a software firewall?
[16:12] <kyll> nope
[16:12] <kyll> i use linux and with on rules for iptables right now
[16:13] <kyll> when i check netstat -l none of those ports are in use
[16:13] <kyll> ive looked in freenet.log, but theres no info about it
[16:14] <MadKooky> do you have installed freenet on an other server or on localhost?
[16:14] <kyll> so im having a hard time figuring out what to do
[16:14] <kyll> im not sure of what u mean
[16:15] <kyll> localhost as in the hostname?
[16:15] <Hirvox> are you sure that the node is running properly? do the logs show any activity?
[16:15] <kyll> yes
[16:15] <Hirvox> BTW, what JVM are you using?
[16:16] <kyll> blackdown
[16:16] <Hirvox> version?
[16:17] <kyll> Blackdown-1.4.1-01
[16:18] <Hirvox> hmm, that one might be too old. the NIO support on 1.4.1 JVMs was pretty bad
[16:18] <kyll> ok
[16:19] <Hirvox> Sun's 1.4.2_05+ should work, and I've had no problems with 1.5.0 either
[16:19] * bluephile (bluephile@69-160-215-63.clvdoh.adelphia.net) has joined #freenet
[16:19] <kyll> then ill change to sun's jvm
[16:32] <toad_> <lee> router works but cant turn off ping - why would you want to turn off ping?
[16:33] <toad_> kyll: you are running netstat on the machine the node is on?
[16:33] * greycat (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) Quit ("This time the bullet cold rocked ya / A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika")
[16:34] <lee> it respnds to ipmg
[16:34] <lee> toad_
[16:34] <lee> i wish it to not
[16:36] <MadKooky> is it legal to link freesites relativ to the freesite dir like /blabla.html insetad of SSK@<key>//blabla//2//bla.html
[16:36] <lee> ICMP even
[16:37] <JabberBot> <nextgens> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore_all
[16:37] <lee> ?
[16:37] <JabberBot> <nextgens> lee : your box won't reply to ping-request anymore
[16:38] <lee> how do i do that
[16:38] <lee> not an linux novice yet
[16:38] <lee> demoted to n00b
[16:39] <JabberBot> <nextgens> lee : just type it as root
[16:40] <lee> thoght so
[16:40] <lee> cant be bothered to unplug cables
[16:40] <MadKooky> or insert it just into your firewall init script if you have one
[16:40] <lee> so i try to get ssh to work
[16:40] <lee> i usen ipcop
[16:41] <lee> 1.4 disto firewall
[16:46] <lee> i looking for an ssh client
[16:46] <d-ArkAngel> google for putty
[16:46] <lee> but open ssh is not cleare
[16:47] <lee> i got it before
[16:47] <lee> but that was before format
[16:47] * verl (verl@h152n2fls33o877.telia.com) Quit ()
[16:47] <d-ArkAngel> just type it into google
[16:47] <d-ArkAngel> what OS are you running?
[16:48] <lee> windows
[16:49] <d-ArkAngel> get putty
[16:49] <d-ArkAngel> just type putty into google
[16:49] <d-ArkAngel> the first match back is a site you can download it from
[16:49] <d-ArkAngel> it's a free ssh client
[16:53] <kyll> toad_: yes :)
[16:55] <MadKooky> any idea how i can replace (with regex pattern) all links that doesn't start with SSK@ ie:href="Cole_Thomas.html" and href="SSK@Sc6qV~D6iFhaYord6HtbjJ8MaEYPAgM/YoYo//container0.zip//New.jpg"?
[16:57] <d-ArkAngel> s/href="([^S][^"]*?)"/href="SSK@Sc6qV~D6iFhaYord6HtbjJ8MaEYPAgM\/YoYo\/\/container0.zip\/\/$1"/
[16:58] <MadKooky> ok thx
[16:58] <d-ArkAngel> that'll get anything that's not a file that starts with a S
[16:58] <kyll> it is nessesary that the outside world got direct access to the FNP listening port? i dont have access to the router so im not able to redirect the port to my lan ip
[16:58] <d-ArkAngel> I'm sure there's a better way to match things....
[16:58] * verl (verl@h152n2fls33o877.telia.com) has joined #freenet
[16:58] <d-ArkAngel> using look aheads, but my reg expression knowledge lets me down a look aheads
[17:00] * jepel_tailweaver (~jepeltw@CPE0004e28cd3c1-CM014340105960.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #freenet
[17:17] <MadKooky> hmm d-ArkAngel maybe wanna take a look at it madkooky.de/freenet
[17:22] <MadKooky> a litttle bridge between normal internet and freenet
[17:22] <lee> cool it worked
[17:23] <jepel_tailweaver> it works here
[17:23] <lee> echo 1 >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore_all
[17:26] <kyll> i just launched freenet for the first time and i read that freenet would be really slow at first. is it possible to say how long it will take before it is up to speed
[17:27] <jepel_tailweaver> kyll, after 3 days I found that it was okay
[17:27] <jepel_tailweaver> 2 or 3 days
[17:27] * MadKooky (~madkooky@pD9E4B5CE.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[17:28] * FallingBuzzard (~srademach@207.152.112.129) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:28] <kyll> so the links in "The Freenet Help Index" should be accessable with good speed after that period?
[17:28] <jepel_tailweaver> kyll, yes
[17:29] <kyll> cool
[17:29] <kyll> how often do u experience that a link isnt accessable now when yours is up to date/speed?
[17:32] * MadKooky (~madkooky@pD9E4B5CE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[17:33] <kyll> okay, another question :-) is there any estimate of how many freenet nodes there is?
[17:34] <jepel_tailweaver> I don't really know much about freenet
[17:34] <jepel_tailweaver> I don't know the answer to either question
[17:35] <kyll> oki
[17:39] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-234-202.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[17:39] <d-ArkAngel> s/href="((?!SSK)[^"]*?)"/href="SSK@Sc6qV~D6iFhaYord6HtbjJ8MaEYPAgM\/YoYo\/\/container0.zip\/\/$1"/
[17:40] <d-ArkAngel> that should work even if a filename starts with an S
[17:40] <d-ArkAngel> tho I've not tested it, and it's the first time I've used a look ahead
[17:41] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-234-202.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[17:46] <MadKooky> yes it's already working
[17:46] <MadKooky> $content = preg_replace("#href=\"(?!/SSK@)(.*?)\"#is","href=\"{$_SERVER["SCRIPT_NAME"]}?uri=$uripath\\1\"",$content);
[17:48] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-234-202.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[17:49] <MadKooky> and if you want you can test and say me if you like the idea
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[18:22] * |UK-Monster| is now known as lee-new
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[18:44] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[18:44] <d-ArkAngel> toad_ why would by directional estimator passing mean you know who requested it... couldn't you link it the estimator to the request rather than the nodes identification?
[18:45] <toad_> [21:58:53] <kyll> it is nessesary that the outside world got direct access to the FNP listening port? i dont have access to the router so im not able to redirect the port to my lan ip - yes, it's strongly recommended
[18:46] <toad_> kyll: if you can't receive connections, it's quite possible that the normal 2-3 day warm up won't happen
[18:46] * lee-new is now known as leexgx
[18:47] <toad_> there were at least 10,000 nodes at one point
[18:47] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: no
[18:47] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: because you don't want it to be spoofable
[18:47] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: the only way to prevent that, well not to prevent it but to reduce it, is to pass along the identity as well so you can have downstream nodes replace the estimator if they know about that node
[18:48] <d-ArkAngel> but it's spoofable as it stands isn't it?
[18:48] <kyll> toad_: oh how long do u think itll take
[18:48] <toad_> yes, it's spoofable, but that's mitigated
[18:48] <toad_> by the fact that it gets replaced
[18:48] <d-ArkAngel> and you couldn't have that in both directions?
[18:49] <toad_> i.e. if D sets storedata to self, and C puts fake estimators on, and B has a connection to D, then D would replace the estimators
[18:49] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: you can, that's not the problem
[18:49] * leexgx is now known as leexgx-gaming
[18:49] <toad_> kyll: it might not work out at all
[18:49] <leexgx-gaming> routers working now
[18:49] <toad_> kyll: we'll see
[18:50] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: the problem is that you have to tell the whole chain the requestor's noderef
[18:50] <toad_> yes this may get reset
[18:50] <kyll> hmm i better get that router replaced with something i can manage
[18:50] <toad_> but even so it's a big problem
[18:50] <d-ArkAngel> why tell them the source? you only need the estimator?
[18:51] <d-ArkAngel> as long as you can find a way to link that to an incomming connection
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[18:54] <toad_> no
[18:54] <toad_> you need the source so that you can replace it
[18:54] <toad_> otherwise there is zero protection against spoofing
[18:54] <toad_> well, on that layer
[18:56] <toad_> anyway, there is a far more pressing concern here
[18:57] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-100x25-new.png
[18:57] <toad_> what the hell is happening with brown?
[18:58] <d-ArkAngel> looks farirly level....
[18:58] <toad_> yes, it should be close to green/red
[18:59] <toad_> it certainly shouldn't be much lower than green/red
[19:01] <d-ArkAngel> is brown the fixed code?
[19:05] <d-ArkAngel> (sorry I've done that myself so many times I think it's always good to ask :-) )
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[19:20] <i2p_iip> <mrflibble> evenin all
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[21:23] <toad_> what happened to the Featured category on FIND?
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
