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[3:03] <Zhothaqquah> hi
[3:04] <Zhothaqquah> i would like to know when did the key appears when you upload a file
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[3:41] -dmwaters- {global notice} Hi all! it appears as though we've lost 2 of our main rotation servers. I've pulled them from the rotation, and am looking into the situation.
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[5:44] <sdogi_> wha
[5:44] <sdogi_> netsplit?
[5:44] <sdogi_> lots of people are gone
[5:57] <JabberBot> <nextgens> sdogi_: i'm still here ;-)
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[6:44] <sdogi_> hehe
[6:44] <sdogi_> nextgens someone sure uses your nick lot on frost boards
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[8:43] <mikeDOTd> yeah, that Anonymous guy is always being spoofed too
[8:46] <JabberBot> <nextgens> mikeDOTd: lol
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[10:48] <toad_> http://nosoftwarepatents.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=123
[10:54] <toad_> :)
[10:54] <toad_> don't /. it though, please
[10:55] <toad_> there'll be an announcement tomorrow from FFII
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[10:58] <toad_> ugh
[10:58] <toad_> apparently my emails are being rejected by BorderWare MXtreme Mail Firewall
[10:58] <toad_> because it doesn't recognize application/pgp-signature attachments !
[10:58] * d-ArkAngel wonders if that's why he's been getting an increased number of mail delivery failures
[10:59] <d-ArkAngel> I've just been ignoreing them and assuming they were either false, or virus mails sent in my name,
[11:02] <toad_> Email address change
[11:02] <toad_> Due to obscene amounts of spam making it through Cornell's filters, I won't see
[11:02] <toad_> +your email unless you send it to:
[11:02] <toad_> myfirstname@mylastname.com
[11:02] <toad_> hmmm
[11:02] <toad_> he spoofs the address it's sent from
[11:03] <toad_> so I can't do much about it since it's a mailing list
[11:03] <toad_> I can't even kick him off the list easily...
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[11:04] <d-ArkAngel> lol
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[11:05] <d-ArkAngel> I've gotta say that I've been getting an overly large amount of junk over the last week or so. (nothing massive, only 10-15 mails every couple of days...) but it's deffinatly getting harder to filter junk.
[11:05] <d-ArkAngel> time for tmda again I think.
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[11:21] <toad_> ? tmda?
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[11:26] <d-ArkAngel> legitimate sender authentication for e-mails. quite a nice tool really. www.tmda.net
[11:27] <d-ArkAngel> works really well. the white lists and taged mail addressing works like a charm. Certainly worked well last time I had it. but I've not gotten arround to setting it up on my current mail server.
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[11:29] <toad_> does it work well with mailing lists?
[11:30] <plixed_> d-ArkAngel: white lists do not sound to me as an option
[11:33] <toad_> white lists work IF all emails are signed, and IF there is a thinkcash based way to get into the whitelist
[11:34] <toad_> well, signed is one option
[11:34] <toad_> there are other options, but authenticated somehow anyway
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[11:34] <toad_> hey robilad
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[11:36] <toad_> hi Ash-Fox
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[11:37] <Ash-Fox> hi toad_
[11:38] <d-ArkAngel> tmda works by chalange response on mails that don't pass one of the other tests (known mail sources, or special tagged mail addresses) it's fairly un-intrusive to run, and I've not spotted anyone fail to be able to mail me through the system.
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[11:46] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: it includes the email address in the challenge, so that list admins have some hope of seeing it?
[11:46] <toad_> dealing with it i mean?
[11:48] <d-ArkAngel> as a person with an e-mail addres protected by the system you can generate mail addresses that will accept mail on certain conditions. for example you can make it accept any mail from a given domain (looks something like robert-sender-B23C8A12@scabserver.com)
[11:49] <d-ArkAngel> you can make them dated too so that they accept any mail for a given length of time
[11:49] <d-ArkAngel> same sort of formats.
[11:49] <toad_> ummm
[11:49] <toad_> if I have a subscription to say announc
[11:49] <toad_> e
[11:49] <d-ArkAngel> if a mail fails the tests for what ever reason it's not discarged
[11:49] <toad_> and I install TMDA
[11:49] <toad_> then the verification message will go back to the list owner
[11:50] <toad_> does the verification message contain enough to establish the email address of the sender and the subject line of the message?
[11:50] <toad_> at least?
[11:50] <d-ArkAngel> it's put in a holding cell and then the sends it sent a mail to get them to check that the mail is valid.
[11:50] <toad_> I got a verification message using some system, that did not quote ANYTHING
[11:50] <d-ArkAngel> they can just reply to it.
[11:50] <toad_> well that wasn't a verification message, it was an autorespond
[11:51] <d-ArkAngel> yeah, I can see that would be annoying.
[11:51] <toad_> if it doesn't quote anything it's possible it's just a spammer trying to get me to auth it for him!
[11:51] <toad_> well that wasn't exactly it
[11:51] <toad_> I quoted above...
[11:51] <d-ArkAngel> it does quote the message
[11:51] <toad_> as long as it quotes the message that's good
[11:51] <d-ArkAngel> (actually i think it includes it as an attachment
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[11:52] <toad_> can you use it for mailing lists?
[11:52] <toad_> and in practice what fraction of senders don't verify their messages?
[11:52] <d-ArkAngel> not sure, I don't see why not.
[11:52] <toad_> i assume it only verifies the first time?
[11:52] <d-ArkAngel> yes
[11:52] <toad_> so you'd still get problems with spam?
[11:52] <d-ArkAngel> it whitelists mail addresses once validated.
[11:52] <toad_> i.e. spam that spoofed the sender address
[11:52] <toad_> worms mostly probably
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[11:53] <toad_> so really you need to combine it with something like that domain verification thing
[11:53] <d-ArkAngel> true, mail worms would probably get though, but you'd need some anti-virus for them really
[11:53] <toad_> no, you don't
[11:53] <toad_> antiviral software is like sending fire engines out to put out fires after they've started; it's the wrong approach, but sometimes it's necessary
[11:54] <toad_> and it's always a PITA
[11:54] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[11:55] <d-ArkAngel> anyway, I'm going to be headding home in a few min and I've got some things I need to tie up first.
[11:55] <d-ArkAngel> maybe catch you later on this evening.
[11:55] <toad_> maybe
[11:55] <toad_> ttyl
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[11:56] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-400x50-kaput.png
[11:57] <toad_> :<
[11:57] <toad_> the new code is still broken
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[12:00] <KenMan> :~(
[12:02] <KenMan> what is this chart ? old code vs new ? the 'brokenness' is the wigglies of success ?
[12:05] <KenMan> if you want less wiggliness, double your cycle length. If you think the sudden appearance of wiggles = trouble, then we must figure out the cause of it, and decide whether it is valid behavior.
[12:06] <toad_> no, they're both old
[12:07] <toad_> errr
[12:07] <toad_> they're both new code
[12:07] <toad_> and they're both pretty bad numerically
[12:07] <toad_> and they both seem to be falling
[12:08] <KenMan> run them much further out. They are not obviously falling, certainly not fast, to me.
[12:08] <toad_> well ok
[12:09] <toad_> they're still far too low though
[12:09] <KenMan> heh
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[12:10] <toad_> compare: http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-400x50.png
[12:10] <toad_> the scale is the same, although the scale is wrong
[12:11] <KenMan> roger
[12:11] <KenMan> i would think that the lower the insert:fetch ratio, the better the estimators would estimate...
[12:12] <toad_> why?
[12:12] <Redb3ard> hey toad, whats up?
[12:12] <toad_> the lower the insert:fetch ratio, the more redundancy we get i suppose..
[12:12] <toad_> Redb3ard: hi
[12:12] <KenMan> because they would be getting more exercised on a 'more static' store layout
[12:12] <toad_> Redb3ard: I refactored the simulator code, and it brokew
[12:12] <sdogi> Redb3ard: hi :)
[12:12] <KenMan> howdy Redb3ard
[12:13] <KenMan> toad - higher redundancy sounds right to me, as a side effect
[12:15] <toad_> so any ideas on how to debug the simulations would be helpful :|
[12:16] <Redb3ard> toad, whats the sim code written in?
[12:16] <Redb3ard> is it java too?
[12:16] <toad_> java, what else?
[12:16] <Redb3ard> bah, java fetishists
[12:16] <toad_> so we can re-use the estimators, and thus verify them
[12:17] <Redb3ard> hmm
[12:17] <Redb3ard> i may have to grab a copy of it, see what it does
[12:17] * toad_ hmm, it's taking _really_ long to plot these graphs
[12:17] <toad_> oh well at least they'll be long term!
[12:17] <toad_> this is two 25x5@6's I was running over the weekend...
[12:17] <KenMan> yeah, the pain of discovery...
[12:18] <sdogi> Redb3ard: you program in c ?
[12:18] <Redb3ard> sdogi, i tinker in alot of things
[12:18] <Redb3ard> C more than C++
[12:18] <sdogi> trying to learn c++
[12:18] * sdogi hates pointers
[12:19] <toad_> hmmm http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-25x5.png
[12:19] <sdogi> if i can't start loving pointers i will never learn c++ :(
[12:19] <KenMan> sdogi: do it backwards. Learn java, then you will sortof know C++.
[12:19] <toad_> or learn asm first, then C
[12:20] <toad_> then C++
[12:20] <toad_> that's the forwards way
[12:20] <sdogi> oh yeah, asm
[12:20] <Redb3ard> asm kicks butt
[12:20] <Redb3ard> heck, dont even have to learn it for x86
[12:20] <Redb3ard> something simple would suffice, to show you how it all works
[12:20] <sdogi> i wrote games in pascal when i was 15, never had to mess with pointers
[12:21] <sdogi> though these games sucked too
[12:21] <toad_> :)
[12:22] <Redb3ard> understanding how the machine uses memory, how the OS does is important
[12:22] <KenMan> toad - unless you can achieve success of 1.04 with 25x5 they are absolutely useless
[12:22] <toad_> you need some sort of references
[12:22] <Redb3ard> speaking of games
[12:22] <Redb3ard> im still diddling around with freenetciv, toad
[12:22] <toad_> being able to twiddle them is a C specific low level thingy
[12:22] <Redb3ard> since obviously there is such a high demand for anonymous turn-based strategy games
[12:22] <toad_> KenMan: what do you mean by 1.04?
[12:22] <sdogi> Redb3ard: freenetciv? :D
[12:23] <KenMan> you must achieve better than perfect, is all
[12:23] * toad_ wondered about Empire over freenet, but since I haven't played it, I don't know
[12:23] <sdogi> Redb3ard: like freenetfreeciv?
[12:23] <Redb3ard> sdogi, i could also make it free software!
[12:23] <Redb3ard> at which point it is actually:
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[12:23] <Redb3ard> free-freenetfreeciv
[12:24] <toad_> KenMan: the original idea was so i could go through the logs and find the bugs..
[12:24] <KenMan> oh yeah, then mebbe it is not worthless after all. Good luck. bbl
[12:25] * KenMan crosses his fingers for toad
[12:25] <sdogi> Redb3ard: girn
[12:25] <sdogi> s/girn/grin/
[12:25] <toad_> KenMan: why is it useless?
[12:25] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> Empire earth?
[12:25] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> Empire earth?
[12:25] <toad_> i mean it's useless irl, but why is it useless to show scalability or to show where freenet's going?
[12:25] <toad_> newsbyte: no
[12:26] <toad_> newsbyte: old turn based strategy game, often has updates many hours apart
[12:26] <toad_> played over a period of days
[12:26] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> so, toad, how are things?
[12:27] <sdogi> i remember empire earth that was real time strategy
[12:27] <sdogi> it came later i guess
[12:28] <sdogi> anyway speaking of turn based games, master of magic was pretty good dos game, sort of like civilization.. well actually almost like a rip, but much cooler
[12:29] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I see freenet got mentionned on /. the 6th again
[12:29] <sdogi> btw, i saw lot of talk about that fuquid is much better when inserting/downloading files, what's the difference?
[12:29] <toad_> maybe instead of running turn based strategy on freenet, we should make freenet fast enough to run RTSs? :)
[12:30] <sdogi> oh yeah
[12:30] <Redb3ard> toad, how?
[12:30] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> maybe we just should make freenet run, p?riod? ;-)
[12:30] <sdogi> when some node starts rejecting packets then some guy just halts on the battle field and is killed :)
[12:31] <Redb3ard> heh
[12:31] <toad_> yup
[12:32] * KenMan was trying to be sarcastic
[12:33] <toad_> KenMan: that's your problem
[12:33] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yes, well...but how is freenet these days? It's like all is gone dead on the lists, no1 says anything anymore about the subject. What did the simulators ultimately reveal about NGR and all that?
[12:34] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-246-189.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[12:36] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> /me prods toad
[12:36] <toad_> huh?
[12:37] <toad_> what I have recently discovered is that simulations have bugs too; I always knew this, but it is annoying
[12:39] <sdogi> how are u doing simulations anyway? with large computer park?
[12:39] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> yes. But what is the conclusion thusfar?
[12:39] <toad_> there have been lots of conclusions
[12:39] <toad_> e.g. the newbie thing i reported recently on devl
[12:40] <toad_> i'd like to simulate my proposed solution, but the simulator is broke
[12:40] <toad_> n
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[12:41] <toad_> hi jay
[12:41] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[12:41] <jay`> hey bro
[12:41] * jay` is now known as jay
[12:42] <jay> initial test with fcpput show it can insert files > 128M
[12:42] <jay> im about to code splitfile retrieval for fcpget and i'll release 1.0 of fcplib
[12:42] <jay> *and* inserts seem to be working much better
[12:43] <jay> toad_: good job on inserts
[12:45] <toad_> thanks
[12:47] <jay> i've been fixing all kinds of minor bugs throughout fcplib.. made unit tests for lots of things
[12:47] <jay> metadata, uri parsing, etc.
[12:47] <jay> im psyched it's working so well
[12:47] <jay> except for a win32/winsock bug
[12:48] <jay> "Software caused connection to abort"
[12:50] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> I see you got payed, toad
[13:17] <toad_> bbl, going aikido
[13:24] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> aikido?
[13:24] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> for a xian coder?
[13:24] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> surp^rises keep popping up
[13:28] <jay> Newsbyte: you're surprised that christians live a normal life?
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[14:25] <Hirvox> http://nightwatch.mine.nu/jpackage-sun-1.5.0-jre.php3
[14:34] <jay> if it's anything like it is for BSD then it will be a pain in the ass, albeit possible
[14:34] <jay> i mean BSD 1.4.x
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[15:36] <greycat> wow, this is the longest my node's been up continuously in a *long* time
[15:36] <greycat> Total amount of data transmitted/received519 MiB/289 MiB
[15:36] <greycat> uptime 17 hours 11 minutes
[15:37] <plixed_> got 7 days / 28 GB here ;)
[15:37] <JabberBot> <nextgens> 0 days, 22 hours, 38 minutes
[15:37] <JabberBot> <nextgens> 643 MiB/215 MiB
[15:38] <plixed_> with java 1.5 / NPTL
[15:40] <plixed_> i vote that the NPTL does not get disabled for java 1.5 by default, it looks very stable to me
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[16:58] <sdogi_> anyone here?
[16:59] <Redb3ard> i am
[16:59] <Redb3ard> sort of
[16:59] <sdogi_> Redb3ard: cool
[16:59] <sdogi_> Redb3ard: ahm..
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[17:34] <sdogi_> http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/10/30/1322227
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[18:35] <toad_> [18:24:52] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> aikido?
[18:35] <toad_> [18:25:02] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> for a xian coder?
[18:35] <toad_> [18:25:15] <i2p_iip> <newsbyte> surp^rises keep popping up
[18:35] <toad_> [18:28:44] <jay> Newsbyte: you're surprised that christians live a normal life?
[18:35] <toad_> heh
[18:35] <toad_> [20:40:28] <plixed_> i vote that the NPTL does not get disabled for java 1.5 by default, it looks very stable to me - it wasn't stable for me..
[18:36] <toad_> but maybe i should reverify that
[18:38] <leexgx-Zzz> lo toad_
[18:39] <toad_> LOL @ http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/10/30/1322227
[18:40] <toad_> leexgx-Zzz: hi
[18:41] * toad_ is a debian user; might be persuaded to switch to gentoo, but it's main alleged advantages are largely bogus, and it forces you to config just about everything by hand in the config files; otherwise, it's a Better Debian, or so I'm told.. :)
[18:41] <toad_> |This distribution is popular with those who always count in binary, and are politically correct in a free software kind of way. Many are suspected of having been nursed on a TTY. Debian users take pride in the fact that their distribution is always several releases behind the latest version of the kernel, but makes up for that by being more difficult to install and use.
[18:42] * toad_ doesn't think free software is politically correct
[18:42] <toad_> in coming years, we may find that it's downright politically subversive
[18:43] <toad_> anyway how are you leexgx-Zzz ?
[18:43] <toad_> more importantly how's your node, freesite, and frost board?
[18:43] <leexgx-Zzz> nice
[18:43] <leexgx-Zzz> forgot about that
[18:43] * leexgx-Zzz starts it back up
[18:44] <leexgx-Zzz> i was doingloading an file i wanted
[18:44] <leexgx-Zzz> ?
[18:44] <leexgx-Zzz> downloading
[18:44] * leexgx-Zzz is now known as leexgx
[18:44] <toad_> newsbyte: why is there a conflict better coder-xtian-aikido? lots of coders do aikido (e.g. Thelema)..
[18:48] <leexgx> i still getting inbound connections after 1 day of freenet not running
[19:03] * leexgx prods toad_
[19:06] <Redb3ard> attack of the christian aikido coders
[19:08] <leexgx> heh
[19:08] <leexgx> can an linux be an server for windows network ?
[19:09] <leexgx> last time i tryed to get linux see an windows network cida failed
[19:09] * leexgx last time he used linux ?
[19:15] <leexgx> i should of kept on messing with linux
[19:18] <leexgx> any one still around?
[19:19] <leexgx> feal like i am talking to my self :P
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[20:46] <toad_> leexgx: yes
[20:47] <toad_> leexgx: for just about anything you want to serve for windows you can get a linux server
[20:47] <toad_> except (legally) battle.net
[20:47] <toad_> e.g. for filesharing, you want Samba
[20:47] <toad_> for webserving, you want Apache, probably
[20:48] <toad_> and for freenet, you want Freenet!
[20:48] <KenMan> hey toad, i'm ready to hear how estimator passing is supposed to work. Like a 2 to 20 line explanation... if you have the time.
[20:48] <toad_> internet connection sharing should be straightforward, depending on your distro...
[20:49] <toad_> KenMan: uh, we pass estimators around :)
[20:49] <toad_> in the StoreData
[20:49] <KenMan> well, yeah, but in that case, it only would help if 2 peers share a middleman ?
[20:49] <KenMan> and have a direct connection ? what am i missing ?
[20:50] <toad_> hmm?
[20:50] <toad_> A->B->C->D->E
[20:50] <toad_> E has the data
[20:50] <toad_> E sends a storedata back along the chain, pointing to E
[20:50] <toad_> D puts in its estimators for E
[20:50] <toad_> C puts in its estimators for E
[20:50] <KenMan> if C has E for a peer, right ?
[20:51] <toad_> B opens a connection to E, and puts E's estimators from the storedata from C into its RT
[20:51] <toad_> yeah, otherwise it wouldn't have any estimators for it :)
[20:51] <toad_> you end up with the closest estimators, not necessarily the best ones, but that helps protect things
[20:51] <toad_> against malicious estimators
[20:52] <KenMan> okay... i think i've got it. Does this relate to source resets (perfectly) ?
[20:52] <leexgx> last time itryed samba it did not work
[20:52] <KenMan> A can never find out about E , if C resets the source to 'C' , right ?
[20:53] <KenMan> s/never//
[20:53] <toad_> leexgx: distribution?
[20:53] <leexgx> dono
[20:53] <toad_> leexgx: it has some issues on debian sid, but i doubt you're using that if you're new to linux
[20:53] <leexgx> last time was probly 2-4 years ago
[20:53] <leexgx> :P
[20:53] <toad_> leexgx: you don't know what distro you were using? or you don't know what distro you are using?
[20:54] <leexgx> i not useing any at this time
[20:54] <leexgx> i refase that
[20:54] <leexgx> [02:00:14] [leexgx]: last time was probly 2-4 years ago
[20:54] <leexgx> linux
[20:54] <leexgx> not used it 2-4 years
[20:54] <toad_> right
[20:54] <leexgx> heh
[20:54] <toad_> well, samba does work very well for many sysadmins, people, corporations, and so on
[20:54] <leexgx> downloading ferdo now
[20:55] <leexgx> wunder is there an good one to start on
[20:55] <toad_> it used to work well for me, but there's a horrible bug in the debian sid package; i suspect that it needs a change of maintainer for the debian package...
[20:55] <toad_> leexgx: what are you downloading?
[20:55] <toad_> fedora?
[20:55] <leexgx> my first go at linux was redhat 3
[20:55] <leexgx> my last was an 2 floppy ver of linux
[20:55] <toad_> http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/10/30/1322227
[20:56] <leexgx> it works wunderfull
[20:56] <leexgx> i even downloaded x windows with ice window man
[20:56] <leexgx> got it working after 4 hrs
[20:56] <leexgx> or was that days
[20:56] <toad_> ummm, X windows on a 2 floppy distro?!
[20:57] <leexgx> nope
[20:57] <leexgx> just the linux plus tools
[20:57] <leexgx> downloaded x windows
[20:57] <leexgx> at that time if i rember i was on an modem
[20:57] <toad_> well, if you're a geek and don't mind learning fast, get debian or gentoo
[20:57] <toad_> if not, most seem to recommend Fedora Core 2
[20:57] <leexgx> i probly stil be useing it if i had not mesed with the swap file on it
[20:57] <toad_> I've also heard good things about SuSE..
[20:58] <toad_> lol
[20:58] <leexgx> it cida wiped out the fat16 file system out
[20:58] <toad_> oops
[20:58] <leexgx> i was running linux on fat16 it work good
[20:58] <toad_> you discovered the fdisk tools that you never used in windows? :)
[20:58] <leexgx> i changed the swap file before
[20:58] <leexgx> nope
[20:58] <toad_> or you ran mkswap on your data partition?
[20:59] <leexgx> it was chageing the swap file useing one of there tools
[20:59] <toad_> linux on fat16? via umsdos?
[20:59] <leexgx> i was running it on an fat16 file system
[20:59] <KenMan> that's the only way
[20:59] <leexgx> i think that whay it was
[20:59] <leexgx> what
[20:59] <leexgx> *
[20:59] <leexgx> i loved it
[20:59] <toad_> well i don't know what you did to kill your fat16.. :)
[21:00] <leexgx> even better was getting the internet working on it
[21:00] <toad_> but i'm sure there are lots of ways
[21:00] <leexgx> i do
[21:00] <toad_> yeah, modems are a PITA
[21:00] <toad_> slightly more so on linux
[21:00] <leexgx> when i edited the swap file settgs i must of put in increct letter in it
[21:01] <toad_> :|
[21:01] <toad_> you were editing the config file?
[21:01] <leexgx> got loads of errors then it stoped when i rebooted :(
[21:01] <leexgx> yep
[21:01] <toad_> /etc/fstab? or something else?
[21:01] * bluephile (bluephile@69-160-215-63.clvdoh.adelphia.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:01] <leexgx> i had done it before with sucess
[21:02] <leexgx> it was fun setting up dail up
[21:02] <KenMan> toad_ just to clarify - estimators in storedata can never travel further than 'hops since reset' , correct ?
[21:02] <leexgx> i had to exit to windows to obtane my DNS and gateway settings as linux was not
[21:02] <toad_> KenMan: yes
[21:03] <KenMan> modems do suck. I have to set up an autodialer to test whether a provider's modem bank is hokey...
[21:03] <KenMan> toad_ thank you. I understand it now :)
[21:03] <leexgx> i cida found that stuped at the time why could linux not get the DNS and gateways setings
[21:03] <toad_> leexgx: it should be able to get the gateway setting even then
[21:03] <toad_> i think it can get the DNS settings too
[21:03] <toad_> now
[21:03] <leexgx> now yes
[21:03] <toad_> but not sure whether it could then
[21:04] <leexgx> then no
[21:04] <leexgx> this was before i got an new pc
[21:04] <leexgx> (133pr amd K5 )
[21:04] <leexgx> 32mb ram
[21:04] <leexgx> lol
[21:04] <toad_> that was the new pc?!
[21:04] <toad_> 5 years ago?!
[21:04] <leexgx> more
[21:04] <toad_> i.e. in 1999?
[21:04] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-39-169.cust.tele2.fr) Quit ("Leaving")
[21:04] <toad_> ah ok
[21:04] <toad_> 10 years ago would make sense
[21:04] <leexgx> i cida never tryed it agane
[21:05] <leexgx> nowi got vmware
[21:05] <leexgx> and some sper pcs to play with
[21:05] <toad_> vmware probably won't work for games
[21:05] <leexgx> going to turn this compaq 486 66 dx 16mb with ISA only into an router :P
[21:05] <toad_> if you were hoping to run windows stuff under linux via vmware
[21:06] <toad_> yay, i did that once
[21:06] <leexgx> lol
[21:06] <leexgx> i ran lindows once
[21:06] <toad_> until I figured out I could run all the servers on my workstation, and physically displace it into a closet downstairs via long cables
[21:07] <toad_> so I can leave it on overnight without having to listen to it whirr all night
[21:07] <leexgx> ?
[21:07] <leexgx> with linux
[21:07] <leexgx> i asum
[21:07] <toad_> box downstairs. long cables go upstairs. monitor, keyboard, mouse, sound system, upstairs.
[21:07] <toad_> could do it with windows as easily, but you have no easy access to the CD drive
[21:07] <leexgx> linux was stable it never crashed (aprt form when i broken it it)
[21:07] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Why not VNC?
[21:07] <KenMan> woah, really ? no CPU in your room ?
[21:08] <toad_> yup
[21:08] <leexgx> i hate it when its quite
[21:08] <toad_> FillaMent: because I'd have to buy a terminal to run VNC on, and because it wouldn't run games
[21:08] <KenMan> that's impressive. How is the video quality with long cable ?
[21:08] <leexgx> like my 8 hdds under my bed humming
[21:08] <toad_> if it ran games, I'd have to buy two beefy PCs - one to run games on and one to run freenet on
[21:09] <toad_> if I do what I've done, I only need the one
[21:09] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Reasonable
[21:09] <KenMan> then you'd never have conflicts, and you could still be here on IRC with one hand while you battled aliens with the other hand ;)
[21:09] <toad_> it's not hard; if you have a suitable room to put it in, and permission to lay cable
[21:09] <leexgx> i like to run linux but i become more of an noob to linux to an novice now :(
[21:09] <toad_> you absolutely must have a cable of the appropriate length though, chaining VGA cables is BAD
[21:10] <leexgx> world roung
[21:10] <toad_> KenMan: picture quality is very good; 1280x1024 works well
[21:10] <leexgx> need sleep
[21:10] <toad_> leexgx: :)
[21:10] <KenMan> night leexgx...
[21:10] <toad_> leexgx: recommend you install linux at some point anyway
[21:10] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> And crappiness of one cable gets amplified every time you connect it with another
[21:10] <leexgx> mite have an play tomoro i got an sper 200hdd that i can play on
[21:10] <toad_> probably you should go for RedHat Fedora Core 2
[21:10] <Redb3ard> slackware!
[21:10] <leexgx> theres and 3 now
[21:10] <KenMan> yeah, or Core3 just came out...
[21:10] <toad_> well 3 then
[21:11] <leexgx> it does not work to well on vmware
[21:11] <leexgx> i get 4 screens all pink
[21:11] <leexgx> whe its installing
[21:11] <toad_> if you want to be really geeky, go for debian or gentoo, depending on the balance of configuration-work and compiling-time versus up-to-date-packages and customization and ultaoptimizations
[21:11] <leexgx> it should fly on me pc installing
[21:11] <toad_> leexgx: dual boot
[21:11] <KenMan> i bet a 10-30' VGA cable is rather pricey !!
[21:12] <leexgx> 200gb WD 8mb
[21:12] <toad_> KenMan: not especially
[21:12] <toad_> belkin.com
[21:12] <KenMan> how long did you need to go ?
[21:12] <leexgx> do not trust linux after wipeing that por 486 (lost scsi drivers as well)
[21:13] <leexgx> more so if i am going to be messing
[21:13] <KenMan> do you realize that alien craft hovering over your continent can probably pick up your transmission ? with an antenna that long ?
[21:13] <toad_> 10 meters? 15? something like that?
[21:13] <toad_> no, it's shielded, of course
[21:13] <leexgx> heh
[21:13] <toad_> it wouldn't get anywhere like that length if it wasn't
[21:13] <toad_> http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=16
[21:13] <leexgx> just not sure what to do once i have installed linux
[21:14] <toad_> leexgx: hmm?
[21:14] <leexgx> and have the gui up
[21:14] <toad_> get on IRC and come back here :)
[21:14] <KenMan> run freenet and save the freeworld
[21:14] <toad_> install linux. get internet working. install freenet. install irc. come back here and await further instructions.
[21:14] <KenMan> play tuxracer ! or xmahjongg
[21:14] * leexgx azureus is now running at 180KB down and 22k up
[21:15] <toad_> out of?
[21:15] <leexgx> download will be fnished in 3hrs 30 mins
[21:15] <leexgx> 2.2gb
[21:15] <leexgx> downloaded 340mb allready
[21:15] <leexgx> buring my line
[21:15] <toad_> KenMan: or gltron, or half-life (with wine), or warcraft 3 (with winex, maybe with wine), or...
[21:16] <toad_> you downloading fedora?
[21:16] <leexgx> going to take me 2 days to up it back
[21:16] <leexgx> yep
[21:16] <leexgx> DVD
[21:16] <KenMan> omg - 100 foot VGA cables... I didn't know screens had gotten that big yet !
[21:16] <leexgx> ?
[21:16] <KenMan> i'd use binoculars to read the screen
[21:16] <toad_> :)
[21:17] <toad_> leexgx: what's your bandwidth?
[21:17] <toad_> 1536/256?
[21:17] <leexgx> one asks how do i connect to irc useing linux will it have an app on there some whare
[21:17] <leexgx> nick
[21:17] <leexgx> nice
[21:17] <leexgx> yep
[21:17] <leexgx> 1500/256
[21:17] <KenMan> that's $3 / foot though ! and you said it wasn't costly...
[21:17] <leexgx> top end is 182/29k
[21:17] <toad_> uh, the shorter ones aren't costly
[21:18] <toad_> I certainly didn't pay hundreds of dollars for it
[21:18] <leexgx> wish i had more like 1500/512
[21:18] <toad_> me too
[21:18] <leexgx> what you got
[21:19] <leexgx> ffs forgot about the 400pII next to me
[21:19] <toad_> same as you
[21:19] <leexgx> keep on kicking it
[21:19] <toad_> only on blueyonder instead of ntl
[21:19] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-198-70-222-58.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[21:19] <KenMan> i can get 4000/384 for an extra $10/month.
[21:19] <leexgx> imust have 4 old pcs in my room
[21:19] <toad_> KenMan: cool
[21:20] <toad_> KenMan: but what does it cost for /512 ?
[21:20] <toad_> an extra $100/mo ?
[21:20] <leexgx> got an gbabit network
[21:20] <KenMan> they don't offer that. Or else, yeah at least that much more
[21:20] <toad_> $200/mo more likely probably
[21:20] <toad_> leexgx: nice.. with a hub?
[21:20] <leexgx> yep
[21:20] <leexgx> 5 port hub
[21:20] <leexgx> me server and shuttle
[21:21] <toad_> you run a 400MHz P2 on gigabit?!
[21:21] <leexgx> + an cheap ?20 router pluged into it
[21:21] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad: You going to be hanging around for a few minutes?
[21:21] <toad_> ?20 gigabit router? where do you get THOSE from?
[21:21] <leexgx> if i had the card yes
[21:21] <toad_> ah
[21:21] <leexgx> fs
[21:21] <toad_> I see
[21:21] <leexgx> no
[21:21] <leexgx> router
[21:21] <toad_> 5 port gigabit hub
[21:21] <leexgx> 60 for 5 port
[21:21] <leexgx> 120 for 8 port
[21:22] <leexgx> ?
[21:22] <toad_> ?20 router.. why do you have a router if you have cable?
[21:22] <leexgx> not $
[21:22] <toad_> FillaMent: hmm?
[21:22] <leexgx> err
[21:22] <leexgx> 1 ip shared to 3 pcs
[21:22] <leexgx> need an router of some cind
[21:22] <toad_> ah, you run windows... :)
[21:22] <leexgx> did used to use me server
[21:22] <KenMan> if all you use is Win, Internet Connection Sharing is perfect
[21:23] <leexgx> but i do not trust it
[21:23] * toad_ has a server, which happens to also be my workstation...
[21:23] <leexgx> so i use an hw router
[21:23] <toad_> KenMan: indeed.. assuming it's stable..
[21:23] <leexgx> that is about 27?
[21:23] <toad_> leexgx: don't trust what?
[21:23] <KenMan> that's the mistake people 'round the world make every day
[21:23] <toad_> I wouldn't trust a hardware router :)
[21:23] <leexgx> windows bunit in router
[21:23] <leexgx> why toad_
[21:23] <toad_> well maybe a WRT54G, but they cost more...
[21:23] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> On freenode... have something to show you in a few minutes
[21:23] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> On freenode... have something to show you in a few minutes
[21:23] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> On freenode... have something to show you in a few minutes
[21:23] <leexgx> :P
[21:24] <toad_> KenMan: I didn't actually say windows doesn't have ICS
[21:24] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[21:24] * yonkeltron (~yonkeltro@pcp04665066pcs.wilog501.pa.comcast.net) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[21:24] * Gunnar (~gunnar@34.80-203-209.nextgentel.com) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[21:24] * goatee (~goatee@ip216-239-88-78.vif.net) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[21:24] <leexgx> ?
[21:24] <toad_> KenMan: I actually thought of it, I just sorta implied linux was more suitable for servers, which is true.. but maybe a lie by implication
[21:24] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) has joined #freenet
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[21:24] * goatee (~goatee@ip216-239-88-78.vif.net) has joined #freenet
[21:25] <leexgx> i got an pre made firewall running on linux that runs of 1 floppy
[21:25] <toad_> leexgx: I dunno, just I want control over the firewall really
[21:25] <toad_> if it's going to do NAT, then it's got the potential to cause problems, and it also makes sense to run e.g. email on it
[21:25] <leexgx> with ADSL routers thay are not scure
[21:26] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad: It's still inserting now, but... SSK@WxBcPJd1ppZSZ~C8IJI-DHx94oIPAgM/betayoyo/3//
[21:26] <toad_> ADSL routers? i thought you were on cable?
[21:26] <leexgx> the DSL/cable routers are norm ok
[21:26] <leexgx> i am
[21:26] <toad_> FillaMent: well, tell me tomorrow when it's inserted..
[21:26] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad: Mostly of interested would be the Update Logs link, as I described
[21:26] <leexgx> ADSL routers norm need the DMZ stting to an none working ip
[21:26] <toad_> leexgx: hmm?
[21:27] <toad_> leexgx: well, for freenet you need to forward the port
[21:27] <leexgx> contaxent ADSL chip sets any router from ?30 to ?90
[21:27] <leexgx> have this problem
[21:27] <toad_> yeah
[21:27] <leexgx> all ports are reported as open or closed
[21:28] <leexgx> all DSL/cable modes are by defult all blocked
[21:28] <leexgx> takes me 10 secs to foward an port
[21:28] <toad_> if more than ?50 to spend, I'd go for the WRT54Gs, they have 2 wireless ports, and basically are a tiny linux PC
[21:28] <KenMan> the place i went today, to fix computers... they are near some woods. And down the hill, near a little stream, sat their old server !
[21:29] <toad_> you can therefore do anything with them and control your own security settings
[21:29] <toad_> KenMan: woah
[21:29] <KenMan> it had misbehaved!
[21:29] <leexgx> the one i have found is called bering
[21:29] <toad_> if you go down in the woods today...
[21:29] <KenMan> i will find all their private corporate data, which mainly consists of porno viewed off the internet
[21:29] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I have a mortal fear of broadband routers... I've bricked two doing firmware updates and another just died.. 2 were linksys WRT series. I just run a smoothwall box on a K6 500 now
[21:30] <toad_> KenMan: and blackmail them :)
[21:31] <toad_> FillaMent: interesting...
[21:31] <leexgx> http://leaf.sourceforge.net/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=910&page_id=36
[21:31] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: That SSK should be retrievable now
[21:32] <toad_> lots of updated sites today...
[21:32] <leexgx> any way i ask tomoro
[21:32] <leexgx> need sleep
[21:32] <leexgx> its 2:30 am here now
[21:32] <leexgx> 2:39
[21:32] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: I'd just like to know what other info would be useful in the logs from YoYo
[21:32] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: I'd just like to know what other info would be useful in the logs from YoYo
[21:33] <leexgx> nn all
[21:33] * leexgx is now known as leexgx-zz
[21:35] <toad_> hmm, lovely
[21:35] <toad_> FIND:
[21:35] <toad_> naphtala's Freesite
[21:35] <toad_> The Freesite from naphtala for everyone interested in controverse thematics...
[21:35] <toad_> :focus design (deprecated)
[21:35] <toad_> zip
[21:35] <toad_> now, where exactly in that description does it say he's a nonce ? :|
[21:35] <toad_> s/nonce/pedo
[21:36] * sdogi_ (~johnny_E@80.235.40.46) Quit (Connection timed out)
[21:37] <toad_> Couldn't retrieve key: SSK@WxBcPJd1ppZSZ%7eC8IJI-DHx94oIPAgM/betayoyo/3//yoyo.html
[21:37] <toad_> The key you are trying to fetch does not exist in the freesite it is supposed to be contained in, which was found. This is a permanent error. You can click here to go to the parent site or return to gateway page.
[21:37] <toad_> FillaMent: one broken link at least...
[21:38] <toad_> Couldn't retrieve key: SSK@WxBcPJd1ppZSZ%7eC8IJI-DHx94oIPAgM/betayoyo/3//nim.html
[21:38] <toad_> The key you are trying to fetch does not exist in the freesite it is supposed to be contained in, which was found. This is a permanent error. You can click here to go to the parent site or return to gateway page.
[21:38] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: Maybe you didn't see the word 'beta' in the reference ;)
[21:38] <toad_> :)
[21:38] <toad_> alpha perhaps :)
[21:38] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: I'll go Rho
[21:39] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: Anyway, did you get the update log?
[21:39] <toad_> |A behavior is on the bad side of the line when it becomes an interference in your life or the lives of those around you. It's unhealthy when the behavior prevents you from doing things that 'normal', 'functional' people could do without too much trouble.
[21:39] * toad_ hmmz, that could be misinterpreted :)
[21:40] <toad_> FillaMent: not yet
[21:40] <toad_> e.g. I can't do what everyone else does, because I think it's wrong
[21:41] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: I've never claimed that anything I wrote was lucid, unambiguous, or even remotely correc
[21:43] <toad_> ;)
[21:43] * toad_ hmmz, should I comment on that bit? Hmm, probably not a good idea..
[21:44] <toad_> dbdump.txt?
[21:44] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I do, however, throw my ideas out there as best as I can and hope that people have a general idea what I'm pointing at. If I try to nail things down exactly, I'll never get an entry done
[21:44] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: Yeah, dbdump.txt
[21:45] <toad_> not got it yet
[21:45] <toad_> FillaMent: sure
[21:45] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: Looking at it now I think I need to expand the date into the actual times... for got that the java.sql.Date.toString() only spits out the date
[21:46] <toad_> I suppose language is inherently ambiguous; you try to get rid of ambiguity, you end up with legalese
[21:46] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: I think one end of the spectrum in ambiguity, the other end is conciseness
[21:49] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: As for the dbdump, what's missing? (and note that what's there is just to show the format, I'm not running the updater regularly yet)
[21:50] <toad_> unfortunately it hasn't appeared yet
[21:50] <toad_> still DNFing
[21:51] * toad_ reads FillaMent's blurb on what the new yoyo will do.. impressive!
[21:51] <toad_> |In proper form, I've created Anonymity Awareness Month. Unfortunately, I can't tell you which month it is.
[21:51] <toad_> heh
[21:51] <toad_> no, that'd be Secrecy Awareness Month
[21:52] <toad_> or perhaps anonymity awareness month...
[21:54] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: Stop taking jokes like a programmer =)
[21:54] <toad_> sorry
[21:54] <toad_> it's not that I don't find them funny, it's just... nevermind
[21:55] <toad_> it's just me being geeky (or AS?) i suppose
[21:55] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: Oh, and thanks for the impressive remark. It's going to do a lot more, primarily in generating statistics
[21:55] <toad_> |2004 - 11 - 07
[21:55] <toad_> I really have nothing to say right now... what good is freedom of speach then?
[21:55] <toad_> LOL
[21:55] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: You're being a programmer. "This would be better if it said /this/." "There's a whole in this argument"
[21:56] <toad_> sonax got at least one of his links wrong...
[21:56] <toad_> http://127.0.0.1:8888/SSK@zdF3raHDyW9%7eBozcbXumra%7e1Oj4PAgM%2cir1aZjV61mwofQpcXD9HDQ/SonaxFlog//SSK@dCIvl-ClOnbMAEJ9-6q7tiID-44PAgM,ys-OxDTtTOgEECZloXsp9g/charles_dickens_banevogteren//
[21:56] <toad_> need a leading /
[22:03] * sdogi (~johnny_E@84.50.16.239) has joined #freenet
[22:07] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> /me kicks eyeKon
[22:10] <toad_> aha
[22:10] <toad_> it loaded
[22:10] <toad_> explain the top bit?
[22:10] <toad_> ah, i see
[22:13] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> toad_: Fields... I think the only thing needing explanation is type NDB: node build
[22:15] * toad_ wonders why FIND doesn't have alinks... naphtala's alink clearly shows everything I need to know about naphtala's site; would be useful in the new/updated section
[22:15] <toad_> i suppose it's a matter of loading time, since he has chosen to have everything on one page
[22:17] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Never been a fan of the single page deal
[22:20] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Well, my back hurts and I'm tired... going to take a nap. If there's anything else that would be useful for you in the dbdump, let me know
[22:25] <KenMan> toad - restricting sim searchs to nodes that don't contain the search key should help maximize estimator development - good idea ? I've already implemented it...
[22:25] <KenMan> it raised the average HTL by 0.5 or so , but no *obvious* benefit otherwise. It may be too subtle to recognize...
[22:32] * toad_ LOL @ KuroNeko - search for "alchemy: not just for the dark ages any more!"
[22:33] <toad_> KenMan: eh?
[22:33] <toad_> well i ought to go to bed
[22:33] <toad_> much as this Actual Freenet Content is amusing
[22:33] <KenMan> g'night amphibious toad ...
[22:34] <KenMan> I decided to avoid the trivial case of searching for a key that already exists on the first (randomly chosen) node
[22:36] <KenMan> at least, i made it an option...
[22:36] <toad_> *KuroNeko does not in any way advocate the the capture and torture of Freenet developers. Well, ok, most of the time.
[22:36] <KenMan> perhaps he feels that you give him cause, on occasion ?
[22:37] <KenMan> or it may be one of the other freenet developers who sometimes causes him grief ;)
[22:38] <KenMan> like that Goteborgian Svensk, Iakin
[22:39] <KenMan> he is always breaking things (just before he makes them better)...
[22:45] <toad_> | Ahem, er, quite. So to wrap up, after a bit of a crash my node's been giving me RNF's (Really can Not be Fucked, for all you newbies) all over the place, so no inserts today I'm afraid. I hope the little fu... er... node sorts itself out pronto, or I might be forced to hunt down Toad and have him debug it line by line, clean my carpet and re-decorate my bathroom - at gunpoint.*
[22:45] <toad_> that's the context, so yes he was thinking of amphibian
[22:45] <toad_> but the best bit (about me anyway) on that site is the whole "Alchemy: Not just for the Dark Ages any more!" thing
[22:47] <KenMan> so long as we have publishers, freenet can never fail!!
[22:48] <toad_> ;|
[22:49] <toad_> as long as we have publishers, we know that we haven't completely killed it yet
[22:51] <KenMan> tat's ta spirit , leapy-legs ...
[22:51] <toad_> heh
[22:51] <KenMan> go to bed, before the werewolf detects your wakefulness in the early morn...
[22:58] <KenMan> 3D gnuplot takes a little practice
[23:28] <KenMan> but now I can visualize load distribution and key redundancy distribution over time
[23:49] * asciiwhite (~kvirc@ppp210-219.lns2.syd3.internode.on.net) has joined #freenet
[23:49] <asciiwhite> hello fellas
[23:49] <asciiwhite> anyone here know what type of encryption freenet uses ?
[23:50] <Hirvox> AFAIR it's AES, let me check..
[23:53] <Hirvox> yes, there's Rijndael and Twofish in the codebase, I'll check which one it actually uses..
[23:54] <asciiwhite> thx]
[23:54] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I believe it's twofish
[23:54] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> That used to be the default
[23:54] <Hirvox> Rijndael seems to be the one that's actually used, it has more references in the code
[23:55] <asciiwhite> what level of encryption is Rijndael ?
[23:56] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Rijndael ~ AES... 256 bit private key, it's the new US gov't standard
[23:56] <Hirvox> and, of course, DH/DSA and SHA-1 for public key crypto and hashes
[23:57] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> As for level, crypto isn't something that stratifies too well
[23:58] <asciiwhite> i've always wondered by the usa has a low standard and alot of other country dont
[23:59] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Low standard?
[23:59] <asciiwhite> that is in Aussie we can go higher then 256
[23:59] <asciiwhite> at one stage wasnt USA 128 limit
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
