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[0:14] -dmwaters- {global notice} Hi all! We're having problems with one of our major european hubs, I'm attempting to work around the problem. I appologize for the problems, and thank you for using freenode!
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[6:10] * nextgens wondering if a jabber gateway could be a good thing for this chan.
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[6:10] <nextgens> indeed, most of us run their node on the same box as they connect to freenode...
[6:11] <nextgens> and jabber could act as a bouncer ...
[6:12] <nextgens> even if we doesn't trust the jabber-bridge, only the jabber you connect to knows your IP
[6:12] <nextgens> :s/jabber/jabber server
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[6:13] <nextgens> it could act as a mixnet ... but the first peer you connect to (the jabber server you're connected to) knows about your ip
[6:14] <nextgens> are some of you interrested in such a gateway?
[6:18] <nextgens> if it isn't a good idea, don't be afraid to blame me ... ;-)
[6:21] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) has joined #FreeNet
[6:31] <PasDNick> nextgens: you'll have to hack down the jabber server, to prevent clients from getting direct connections between them too..
[6:31] <PasDNick> (like file Xfer, and so on)
[6:33] <nextgens> PasDNick, : not a problem as Xfer transferts can't (SHOULDN'T in RFCs) be used ...
[6:33] <nextgens> Jabber is a transport protocol ...
[6:33] <PasDNick> nextgens: but you still have to prevent them from beeing used..
[6:34] <nextgens> and file transferts are handled with a server side component, masquerading address
[6:34] <PasDNick> nextgens: not always
[6:34] <PasDNick> they can be made directly between clients
[6:34] <PasDNick> .. depends of the client used, i agree
[6:34] <PasDNick> if no bytestream proxy is found, many clients will try direct connections
[6:35] <nextgens> PasDNick, : but it could be disabled ;-) whereas using IRC, it couldn't
[6:36] <nextgens> PasDNick, : using my client :-(
[6:36] <PasDNick> nextgens: using IRC i'm pretty sure you can disable them too, the same way you'll disable them within the jabber daemon :)
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[6:36] <PasDNick> .. cause you'll have to hack down the choosen jabber daemon
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[6:40] <PasDNick> nextgens: i guess it would be easier/faster to embed a jabber daemon within i2p (if not already done)
[6:40] <nextgens> PasDNick, : I don't like i2p ;-)
[6:41] <PasDNick> nextgens: ah ? why ? (i must admit i never followed the setup procedure..)
[6:42] <nextgens> PasDNick, : for many reason, including the fact it's hard to setup ;-)
[6:42] <PasDNick> nextgens: hehe :)
[6:43] <PasDNick> nextgens: hopefully, this will change in the future, when i2p is (more) mature
[6:43] <nextgens> PasDNick, : as for freenet I hope ;-)
[6:44] <PasDNick> nextgens: i'm affraid freenet will always be a "project" ... thus not (too) much userfriendly
[6:44] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@abl10.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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[7:07] * nextgens setting up a gateway for personnal use
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[7:13] <nextgens> toad_, : I red your post on devl : some french guy made such a website too...
[7:14] <nextgens> toad_, : http://pagesperso.laposte.net/hhmule/~~phpBB-208~~/index.php
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[7:55] * sdogi (~johnny_E@80-235-38-202-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) has joined #freenet
[7:55] <sdogi> hi
[7:58] <sdogi> let me see, everyone is doing some fine hardcore programming
[8:21] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
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[8:25] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[8:26] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[8:28] <JabberBot> <nextgens> a jabber-bridge is now aviable here : freenet on chat.fritalk.com
[8:29] * nextgens (~toto@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit ("Leaving")
[8:30] <JabberBot> nextgens changes status to away.
[8:34] <xbit> what an annoying shit bot
[8:34] <JabberBot> test joins the Jabber chat.
[8:34] <JabberBot> nextgens changes status to away.
[8:34] <JabberBot> nextgens changes status to away.
[8:35] * xbit kicks jabberbot in the face
[8:35] <JabberBot> test exits the Jabber chat.
[8:45] <sdogi> grin
[8:47] <JabberBot> nextgens joins the Jabber chat.
[8:50] * Max_ (~toto@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[8:51] <Max_> hi
[8:51] <sdogi> hi
[8:51] <sdogi> Redb3ard: you too here :)
[9:02] <JabberBot> Ash-Fox joins the Jabber chat.
[9:02] * pupok (~r00t@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[9:02] <JabberBot> <Ash-Fox> Boo
[9:03] <Ash-Fox> this thing is malfunctioning
[9:03] <Ash-Fox> It's messaging messages privately instead of displaying it in the chat window
[9:03] <JabberBot> <nextgens> Ash-Fox ?
[9:03] <JabberBot> <Ash-Fox> yes?
[9:03] <JabberBot> <nextgens> no
[9:04] <JabberBot> <nextgens> isn't your jabber client buggy?
[9:05] <JabberBot> <Ash-Fox> no
[9:05] * Max_ trying the jabber gateway : it could be nice if it works well
[9:05] <JabberBot> <Ash-Fox> It works fine elsewhere
[9:05] * Max_ (~toto@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
[9:05] <JabberBot> Ash-Fox exits the Jabber chat.
[9:06] <Ash-Fox> I'll just stay here
[9:07] <JabberBot> <nextgens> ash-fox : what client are you using ? I'll try and fix this issue.
[9:07] * xbit (xbit@pppoecl78086.minlos.no) has left #freenet
[9:07] <Ash-Fox> Neos
[9:09] <JabberBot> <nextgens> a closed source windows client :-(
[9:09] <JabberBot> <nextgens> /action downloading and trying with wine
[9:12] <JabberBot> <nextgens> Ash-Fox : does "Voice and Video over IP" works over Jabber using this client?
[9:12] <Ash-Fox> yes
[9:17] * sdogi (~johnny_E@80-235-38-202-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
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[9:23] <JabberBot> <nextgens> /action not working under Wine : trying with vmware
[9:28] * sdogi_ (~johnny_E@80-235-38-246-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) has joined #freenet
[9:29] <JabberBot> Max_ joins the Jabber chat.
[9:30] <JabberBot> <Max_> testing
[9:30] <JabberBot> <nextgens> working :-)
[9:30] <JabberBot> <Max_> yes
[9:32] <JabberBot> <Max_> ash-fox : did you right click on Public Conferencing and choosed JOIN in the "Jabber Explorer"?
[9:32] <Ash-Fox> I recall just clicking services.. entering the address, and clicking join on the freenet chat
[9:37] <JabberBot> <Max_> Ash-Fox: using neos 1.0.87b here it works well :-) as in IRC but even more, there is no need to look at channel logs : great !
[9:37] <JabberBot> <Max_> nextgens : thanks you
[9:38] <Ash-Fox> Neos is one of the things that keeps me on windows :P
[9:39] <JabberBot> <nextgens> PSI isn't that bad on linux ;-)
[9:40] * sdogi (~johnny_E@80-235-36-71-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[9:42] <JabberBot> Max_ exits the Jabber chat.
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[9:46] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@abn230.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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[9:48] <JabberBot> <nextgens> Ash-fox : 'messaging messages privately' : openning a new window each time there is a new message? in an other window?
[9:55] <JabberBot> Max_ joins the Jabber chat.
[9:56] <JabberBot> <Max_> /action : :-( wondering when windows will become STABLE : when freenet will become fast ? ;-)
[9:56] <JabberBot> <nextgens> Max_: lol
[9:58] <JabberBot> <Max_> Ash-Fox: only the list of people in the irc channel is sent privately ...
[9:59] <JabberBot> <Max_> nextgens : Isn't it possible to disable it ?
[9:59] * Ash-Fox doesn't have stability issues on windows
[9:59] <Ash-Fox> Max_, okay
[10:00] <JabberBot> <nextgens> Max_: I'm not a guru in perl but I'll have a look at it..
[10:02] <JabberBot> <Max_> I've to reboot one more time ... I REALLY 'd like to know how do you do Ash-Fox ... bbl
[10:02] <JabberBot> Max_ exits the Jabber chat.
[10:05] <JabberBot> <nextgens> /action tring mt
[10:05] <JabberBot> nextgens exits the Jabber chat.
[10:06] * TLF (~francisco@83.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("Adi?s a todos y a todas, y que les vaya bien. || http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc")
[10:08] <JabberBot> nextgens joins the Jabber chat.
[10:09] <JabberBot> <nextgens> Ash-fox : testing ... I'm running neos on my box
[10:13] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ()
[10:14] <JabberBot> <nextgens> Ash-Fox: sorry but here it seems to work : it only open a new window to send the list once ... true that neos isn't such a bad choice on windows... BUT it isn't GPL :-'(
[10:15] <JabberBot> <nextgens> /action -> going back to PSI ;-)
[10:16] <JabberBot> nextgens has set the topic to: FREENET : IRC bridge with #freenet on irc.freenode.org
[10:16] <JabberBot> nextgens exits the Jabber chat.
[10:17] <JabberBot> nextgens joins the Jabber chat.
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[10:25] <JabberBot> test_jabber changes status to available.
[10:28] <JabberBot> test_jabber exits the Jabber chat.
[10:53] <JabberBot> nextgens changes status to xa.
[10:54] <JabberBot> nextgens exits the Jabber chat.
[10:55] <toad__> hi ppl
[10:56] <toad__> <KenMan> i think at least half of the content is only available through
[10:56] <toad__> frost...
[10:56] <toad__> somebody should do something about this :)
[10:56] * N0One (~toto@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[10:56] <N0One> hi
[10:57] <JabberBot> nextgens joins the Jabber chat.
[10:57] <toad__> <Ash-Fox> http://kano.net/javabench/
[10:58] <toad__> curious.. -server didn't used to be stable for me..
[10:58] * N0One (~toto@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
[11:00] <toad__> <PasDNick> nextgens: i'm affraid freenet will always be a "project" ... thus
[11:00] <toad__> not (too) much userfriendly
[11:00] <toad__> what areas does freenet suck in re user friendliness? IMHO the biggest issue is performance right now...
[11:01] <Ash-Fox> toad_, sounds like you need turbo power! http://bdn.borland.com/article/images/20297/turbomanpage1-lg.jpg http://bdn.borland.com/article/images/20297/turbomancomicstrip1.jpg http://bdn.borland.com/article/images/20297/turbomancomicstrip2.jpg http://bdn.borland.com/article/images/20297/turbomancomicstrip3.jpg
[11:02] <toad__> uhh, Jabber is anonymous?
[11:02] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad__ : no
[11:02] <toad__> <Ash-Fox> Neos is one of the things that keeps me on windows :P
[11:02] <toad__> woah, an IRC client keeps you in windows? /me boggles...
[11:03] <Ash-Fox> tav|offline, it's a jabber client
[11:03] <Ash-Fox> I mean toad__
[11:03] <Ash-Fox> toad__, It's the best one I've ever used, and running it under crossover office takes too many resources
[11:04] <toad__> Ash-Fox: uh, what's those urls?
[11:05] <toad__> Ash-Fox: that is disturbing
[11:05] <Ash-Fox> toad_, hehe :P
[11:05] <toad__> and depressing! we're supposed to be good at stuff like IRC clients! it's not anywhere near the list of Hard Stuff To Do OpenSource (either because it's just plain hard or because geeks don't use it much)
[11:07] <toad__> hmmm
[11:07] <toad__> one possible issue with those benchmarks: "P6-class - Pentium Pro/II, Celeron 266-533MHz, original Athlon, higher", is a hell of a range
[11:07] <toad__> there are different model switches for each
[11:07] <toad__> anyhow the method call benchmark IS impressive
[11:08] <JabberBot> nextgens changes status to away.
[11:08] <toad__> ah, no it isn't
[11:09] <toad__> of course this doesn't disprove "java is bloated" :)
[11:11] <toad__> but memory isn't such a big deal imho
[11:11] <toad__> mostly
[11:15] * toad__ ROFL @ http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/05/0336203
[11:20] <toad__> it's not quite as bad as it initially sounds, of course
[11:20] <toad__> it's pretty ludicrous though
[11:30] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@abn230.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[11:33] <KenMan> hi toad
[11:34] * toad__ wonders if the run-time optimizations the JVM does can be matched by ahead of time profile driven optimization.. it's well known that GCC is a little behind the state of the art..
[11:34] <toad__> hi KenMan
[11:34] <toad__> e.g. conditional inlining in C++
[11:35] <KenMan> have you words with kers yet ?
[11:35] <toad__> nope
[11:35] <toad__> not seen him
[11:36] <KenMan> oh well... if and when we ever meet, i owe you a chicken :)
[11:36] <toad__> KenMan: the numbers continued to suck
[11:36] <toad__> I'm sure I can find something to trade it for
[11:36] <toad__> (we prefer organic chickens, which cost 3x as much)
[11:36] <KenMan> i'm running 500x30x12x250. I changed the rules to 2/3 of RT must be experienced to accept new conns.
[11:37] <toad__> now where was I? yes, the new code SUCKS
[11:37] <KenMan> One organic chicken. I'll remember that.
[11:37] <toad__> KenMan: well I wouldn't have bought you one if I'd lost ;)
[11:37] <KenMan> so we'll share it. I normally can't consume a entire chicken by myself.
[11:38] <KenMan> i think a chicken is the second most common form of currency, after printed paper
[11:38] <toad__> well
[11:38] <toad__> what's the next step then?
[11:39] <toad__> oh also..
[11:39] <KenMan> re the food or the sim ?
[11:39] <toad__> it still sucks with low-churn disabled and newbiehits set back to 200
[11:39] <toad__> so there remain serious bugs in the simulation
[11:40] <KenMan> 'low churn' disabled ? you mean no churn, or lower churn enabled ?
[11:40] <toad__> i mean higher churn
[11:40] <toad__> i mean the old strategy
[11:40] <KenMan> oh. shoot, i don't know. Somehow you must regress through your changes :(
[11:41] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aak167.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[11:41] <KenMan> your main problem is much lower speed, or different pSuccess results ? the second i think
[11:41] <toad__> much different pSuccess
[11:42] <KenMan> back down to no announce, no estpassing, and I can compare things with you...
[11:42] <KenMan> I enabled interleaving inserts with requests, and allow any number of inserts smoothly mixed against the 10K req cycle
[11:43] <KenMan> don't you suspect one feature of your code ? or is it all beginning to give you chills ?
[11:43] <toad__> well, the old code produced better pSuccess
[11:44] <toad__> but was horrible
[11:44] <KenMan> smaller changes with frequent cvs commits in the future ?
[11:45] <toad__> smaller changes would not have unfucked it
[11:45] <KenMan> I'm not even tracking my stuff , maybe I will start to. I mainly want to understand each piece of what I'm working with.
[11:45] <toad__> sometimes you just have to refactor
[11:46] <KenMan> well, i suppose i could enable estpass and/or announce, and we could compare small configs...
[11:46] <toad__> I mainly just wanted to separate and group together the various data structures...
[11:46] <KenMan> I took out the key DB from Main and added 'Keyset' to Node...
[11:46] <KenMan> but I'm not really doing that kind of thing
[11:46] <toad__> you mean to determine whether the problem is estpassing or announce?
[11:46] <toad__> i suspect it's neither...
[11:46] <KenMan> well, yeah. Or discover something else related.
[11:47] <KenMan> conn management then ?
[11:47] <toad__> probably
[11:47] <toad__> but how do i debug that?
[11:48] * pupok (~r00t@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[11:48] <KenMan> compare old code with no conn flux to new code with no conn flux... just to verify
[11:48] <toad__> you mean with fixedc
[11:48] <toad__> err
[11:49] <toad__> you mean with fully connected?
[11:49] <KenMan> use a small RT as changes will be more frequent
[11:49] <KenMan> duh, uhm... no. not fully connected.
[11:49] <KenMan> it doesn't matter. Just check that without conn flux you still have the same basic code.
[11:50] <KenMan> (thus results!)
[11:50] <KenMan> then you can enable it on both, being careful to examine what it is doing in each case.
[11:51] <KenMan> (reread / review your own code for both models)
[11:52] <KenMan> yeah, use your fully connected model for a direct comparison. (btw in network terminology, fully connected only means that each node can reach every other node through some chain of links)
[11:52] * Aladin1975 (~chatzilla@dialin-145-254-132-249.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[11:53] <KenMan> or 'graph terminology' :)
[11:53] <toad__> KenMan: so what's the official term for what I call fully connected?
[11:53] <KenMan> heh, not many people study such things. Lets call it ... hmmm... just ignore my pickiness ;)
[11:54] <KenMan> I suppose 'completely connected' would be academically acceptable to some, i don't really care myself.
[11:54] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-243-211.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[11:57] <KenMan> it's not like i spent years working on graph theory ;) so it doesn't offend me.
[11:58] <KenMan> my sim seems slower than I expected - in ~10 hours , 500x30x12x250 has only reached 30M Qs
[12:00] <KenMan> and it is a new pattern for me. constant connection flux, slowly drifting down success, slowly drifting up load stddev. Constant key redun, constant load, constant success HTL.
[12:01] <KenMan> so the load is SLOWLY concentrating itself onto fewer nodes, but it is hurting, not helping :(
[12:02] <KenMan> I'm wondering if something dramatic is going to happen somewhere down the line, before 100M
[12:02] <KenMan> I doubt it. Also, changing insert:request has a powerful effect.
[12:05] <KenMan> just changing one of the many parameters has a big impact on the resulting behavior
[12:07] <KenMan> ... please stay tuned for one of toad's classic "AhHah, fixed it!" reports ;)
[12:15] * toad_ (toad@82-32-18-233.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds)
[12:17] * toad__ is now known as toad_
[12:19] <toad_> looks like I'll just have to do the traditional thing...
[12:20] <toad_> bump the log up to insanity, and wade through it for a while...
[12:24] * toad_ runs it at 100x100@14, first...
[12:26] * TLF (~francisco@83.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[12:29] * |UK-Monster| (~bbtt@cpc2-warr1-5-0-cust83.bagu.cable.ntl.com) has joined #freenet
[12:29] * |UK-Monster| is now known as lexx
[12:29] <lexx> lo all
[12:29] <toad_> lo
[12:29] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> Toad: Just to make a change from the usual "this is broken, there is a bug, fix it etc." just want you to know that i'm really happy with latest stable. (And i don't think i am alone with that.) Keep up the good work!
[12:29] <lexx> lo toad_ nice to see you agane
[12:30] <toad_> Sonax: thanks!
[12:30] <toad_> Sonax: you run a flog, correct?
[12:30] <toad_> so you insert stuff
[12:30] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> toad: yes
[12:30] <toad_> that means your happiness is in the group targetted by recent changes
[12:30] <toad_> CofE seems pretty happy too
[12:31] <lexx> i got to see that
[12:31] <toad_> not on CofE, on TFE
[12:31] <lexx> heh
[12:32] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> Toad: I have always been happy with freenet :)
[12:32] <lexx> going to start freenet back up (frash install) mine is 3 months old
[12:32] <toad_> Sonax: that's scary
[12:33] <toad_> encouraging too of course
[12:34] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> Toad: What can i say... i like pain?
[12:34] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> Toad: What can i say... i like pain?
[12:35] * jay` (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[12:35] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> Freenet: Come for the anonymity, stay for the self abuse.
[12:35] * jay` is now known as jay
[12:35] <toad_> heh
[12:35] <lexx> heh
[12:35] <toad_> freenet: bring massochistic geeks together since 1997...
[12:35] * sdogi_ (~johnny_E@80-235-38-246-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[12:35] <jay> lo toad_
[12:36] <toad_> not to chanlog: that makes no sense without the preceding lines
[12:36] <toad_> lo jay
[12:39] <toad_> s/not/note
[12:40] * sdogi (~johnny_E@80-235-37-192-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) has joined #freenet
[12:41] <toad_> okay
[12:41] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[12:41] <toad_> difficult to prove...
[12:41] * toad_ thinks he will manually verify, but with a really small network
[12:41] <toad_> say 20 nodes
[12:41] <toad_> and say 5 HTL
[12:42] * Aladin1975 (~chatzilla@dialin-145-254-132-249.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[12:43] <toad_> sim is still not loading native code..
[12:43] <toad_> but the node does
[12:44] <toad_> this is odd
[12:46] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[12:47] <toad_> hi sanity
[12:51] <toad_> oooh
[12:53] <toad_> okay, it's possible that's a kaffe problem..
[12:53] <JabberBot> nextgens joins the Jabber chat.
[12:53] <toad_> nextgens: is that anonymous?
[12:53] <toad_> okay, it's not a kaffe problem
[12:54] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad_: no but it doesn't publish my IP except the server I'm connected to
[12:55] <toad_> some sort of estimator corruption...
[12:56] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad_: and it keeps an other chanlog
[12:57] <toad_> definitely some sort of estimator corruption happening..
[12:57] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[12:58] <toad_> nextgens: so it's a sort of alternate messaging system?
[12:58] * toad_ likes integrated serverside logging
[12:58] <toad_> as long as the ops can hack at it
[12:59] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) has joined #freenet
[13:01] <lexx> is 256mb for the store file still big enuf
[13:01] <toad_> hmmm
[13:02] <toad_> looks like a heisenbug...
[13:02] <lexx> or does it set it to an bigger setting ?
[13:02] <toad_> if try to you debug it it goes away..
[13:02] <toad_> lexx: it's supposed to default to 10% of available disk space on windows
[13:02] <toad_> 256M is a minimum
[13:02] <lexx> i not started it up yet
[13:02] <lexx> so probly why the ini file is reading that way
[13:03] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad: it's an IM but... with serverside gateways (I've got AIMs, ICQs, MSNs and other contacts)... you have to suscribe services from a server... there are tons of public servers... and the main advantage is that if one of them crash, only the specified domain get unreachable contrary to centralized-only systems... and you could use whatever client you'd like
[13:04] <toad_> nextgens: hrrm.. so how is it better than a multi-server-capable IRC client?
[13:04] * lexx starts freenet node and wunders
[13:04] <toad_> I mean use two or more IRC servers on the same channel on the same network and synch them so you can still hear on netsplits?
[13:05] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad_: I think so but I let you judge ... try it using a webclient http://jwchat.sourceforge.net/demo.shtml
[13:05] <toad_> I suppose that's not really easy since the protocol isn't designed to support it, it'd be a bit of a gross hack involving multiple nicks..
[13:06] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad_: no because it natively have IRC like chatting rooms with nick support
[13:06] * d-ArkAngel (~Rob@cpc2-midd2-5-0-cust16.midd.cable.ntl.com) has joined #freenet
[13:07] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad_: give it a try ;-)
[13:07] * d-ArkAngel (~Rob@cpc2-midd2-5-0-cust16.midd.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:08] <toad_> doh
[13:08] <toad_> missed d-ArkAngel
[13:10] <JabberBot> <nextgens> toad_:just go there and login using a noexistent username & password ... click on join chatrooms and specify server=chat.fritalk.com and room freenet
[13:10] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) has joined #freenet
[13:11] <jay> what's up with the jabber advertising?
[13:11] <jay> this is a development channel for freenet
[13:11] <JabberBot> nextgens2 changes status to available.
[13:11] <toad_> don't kill him, i did ask
[13:12] <jay> i won't kill no one
[13:12] <jay> heh
[13:12] <JabberBot> <nextgens> :-$
[13:12] <jay> btw i use gabber ;)
[13:16] * TLF (~francisco@83.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("Adi?s a todos y a todas, y que les vaya bien. || http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc")
[13:16] <toad_> hmmm
[13:16] <JabberBot> nextgens2 exits the Jabber chat.
[13:16] <toad_> that was apparently caused by altannounce...
[13:19] <lexx> from cold start i can open pages up (with an small push to ttl 25)
[13:22] <JabberBot> <nextgens> If this bot is annoying for IRC users, I could make it be less verbose like i2p_iip is : suppressing statuschanges and other messages... should I do it?
[13:23] <jay> id say yes
[13:24] <jay> there's enough join/part spam from ian's irc client
[13:25] <JabberBot> <nextgens> jay : ;-) ok...
[13:25] <plixed_> JabberBot: yes
[13:26] <jay> JabberBot: it's not a big deal but it would be nice :)
[13:27] <plixed_> JabberBot: you can choose in your irc client if you want to see chan joins / parts, the they are msgs from a bot you can not suppress them any more
[13:27] <plixed_> s/the(if/
[13:29] <jay> plixed_: without ignoring everything from the bot
[13:30] <JabberBot> <nextgens> I'll remove join/part messages : should I do the same with /away ?
[13:31] <plixed_> JabberBot: YES
[13:31] <plixed_> away messages do not get broadcasted by default
[13:31] <JabberBot> nextgens changes status to away.
[13:31] <JabberBot> nextgens joins the Jabber chat.
[13:32] <JabberBot> <nextgens> /action I'll join IRC to see my changes
[13:33] * nextgens (~toto@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[13:34] <JabberBot> nextgens changes status to away.
[13:35] <nextgens> quitte anoying indeed : I agree ...
[13:36] * nextgens I'll lunch and fix it
[13:50] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) has left #freenet
[13:53] <toad_> okay, i'm reasonably sure that it works with a fully connected network...
[13:54] <toad_> 25x25@5 is wobbly, but it does seem to be getting there i.e. increasing psuccess, which is pretty high
[13:54] * nextgens restarting bot
[13:54] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[13:54] <toad_> so, next.. 25 nodes, 5 connections each, 10 HTL
[13:55] <toad_> just for debugging purposes of course
[13:55] <toad_> so tons of logging, after checking the trend
[13:56] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[13:56] <JabberBot> <nextgens> test
[13:56] <toad_> test to you too
[13:56] <nextgens> :-) he's no more verbose on IRC ;-)
[13:57] <JabberBot> <nextgens> working ;-) even on statuschange ;-)
[13:58] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-25x25.png
[13:58] <JabberBot> <nextgens> and he still forward all messages to the jabber chan :-)
[13:58] <toad_> that is plainly working...
[13:58] <toad_> imho
[13:58] <toad_> well, learning
[13:58] <toad_> it's pathetically small but that makes it very very fast
[13:59] <toad_> it oscillates a lot
[13:59] <toad_> which is interesting
[13:59] <toad_> oh
[13:59] <toad_> i know why it oscillates!
[13:59] <toad_> duhh!
[14:00] <toad_> hmmm
[14:00] <toad_> no i don't
[14:01] <toad_> i was going to say that it oscillates because we insert on each node in sequence
[14:01] <toad_> but of course that's not why because that happens completely every cycle
[14:02] <toad_> and we don't extract data except on cycle boundaries
[14:12] * toad_ hrrm
[14:22] * nextgens restarting it again
[14:22] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[14:23] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[14:26] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[14:27] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[14:28] * nextgens is now known as nextgens2
[14:31] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[14:32] * JabberBot (~nextgens@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[14:35] <nextgens2> JabberBot, : who
[14:37] <JabberBot> <nextgens> ok, I've done enough testing... it works and will be very handy to me... I do apologize for the disturbance.
[14:37] * nextgens2 (~toto@d80-170-190-75.cust.tele2.fr) Quit ("Leaving")
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[16:26] * TLF (~francisco@223.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("Adi?s a todos y a todas, y que les vaya bien. || http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc")
[16:46] * patryk (~patryk@c-67-172-54-80.client.comcast.net) has joined #freenet
[16:46] <patryk> What is a "stable network reset"?
[16:52] <toad_> patryk: umm, it's when we release a new stable build that is incompatible with nodes running older versions, and get everyone to upgrade
[17:01] <toad_> hmmm
[17:01] <toad_> this sim hasn't even got estimator passing enabled...
[17:02] <toad_> i wonder if estimator passing is the bug
[17:02] <toad_> i.e. if it's broken in the cur code...
[17:08] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-243-211.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[17:08] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-198-70-222-58.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[17:09] <sdogi_> did u guys broke freenet.conf with purposely
[17:09] <sdogi_> s/with//
[17:15] <KenMan> what's that, you broke the estimator passing code ?
[17:15] <KenMan> j/k ;)
[17:16] <KenMan> anyway, new & old line up, without estimator passing, and 'fully connected' ?
[17:19] <KenMan> 500x30x12x250 is progressing rather slow... http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jkcorson/FreeNet/500x30x12x250.png
[17:22] <KenMan> connection churn is quite steady. HTL hasn't budged, generally just a slow downward drift in success. I think 400:10000 is involved. 100:10000 might produce something else, but I'll run this out to at least 90M first.
[17:23] <sdogi_> in what language are u talking
[17:23] <KenMan> intuition says it is not going to change from here on, but we will see.
[17:24] <KenMan> (this is quasi toad-KenMan language)
[17:24] <KenMan> relating to his simulation code and results
[17:24] <sdogi_> grin
[17:24] <sdogi_> freenet tech talk
[17:25] <KenMan> come back in an hour or a day, the political wrongs of the world are frequently discussed here as well :)
[17:26] <sdogi_> whoa success rate drops like crazy
[17:26] <sdogi_> hehe
[17:26] <sdogi_> that would be interasting
[17:26] <KenMan> what are you running, and what are you getting ? how long have you been up ?
[17:28] <sdogi_> me? well i was saying it about that graph
[17:28] <sdogi_> anyway i have been running freenet for some months i guess
[17:28] <sdogi_> this new version ran pretty well
[17:28] <sdogi_> until i had my storage full
[17:28] <sdogi_> then i didn't get anything
[17:28] <sdogi_> it was yesterday
[17:29] <sdogi_> i also discovered that my freenet.conf is almost empty
[17:29] <KenMan> that's normal. 2-5 lines or so ?
[17:32] <sdogi_> yeah
[17:32] <sdogi_> i usually set storage to some gigs but now it has default
[17:38] * sdogi (~johnny_E@80-235-33-109-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) has joined #freenet
[17:41] <sdogi> i though that i'll steal conf file from some earlier version but i discovered it yesterday
[17:42] <sdogi> i hate those resets
[17:52] <sdogi> anyway most of freenet is still unaccessable to me
[17:52] * sdogi_ (~johnny_E@80-235-34-36-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[17:52] <sdogi> wtf
[17:52] <sdogi> oh, my second me left
[17:53] <sdogi> good riddance
[17:53] <toad_> why do you hate resets?
[17:55] * plixed_ (~plixed@p5082343D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
[17:57] <sdogi> toad_: i mean my resets... our phone filter is some how screwed up
[17:57] <toad_> ah ok :)
[17:57] <sdogi> toad_: so my servers connection goes down for 2-3 minutes
[17:57] <sdogi> it totally sucks
[17:58] <sdogi> it usually goes down when i'm using it
[17:58] <sdogi> so my nick changes to sdogi_ , then back to sdogi and then sdogi_ etc
[17:58] <toad_> ah
[17:58] <sdogi> btw does freenet follow my ip change when it happens?
[17:59] <sdogi> i mean my node
[17:59] <toad_> usually yes
[17:59] <sdogi> good
[18:00] <sdogi> so, when is ng routing going to be ready?:) i'm so hoping that some day freenet is going to be bit faster
[18:00] <toad_> we have been using ng routing for a long time
[18:01] <toad_> but there is much to do on freenet
[18:01] <sdogi> ok
[18:02] * plixed (~plixed@p50823A3F.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[18:02] <sdogi> yeah well, i was starting to retrieve websites pretty well but now with new version somehow everything is unaccessable :(
[18:02] <sdogi> i get lot of rejects
[18:04] <toad_> do you have very few connections?
[18:05] <toad_> that usually explains such problems
[18:05] <toad_> bbl
[18:05] <toad_> back monday
[18:05] * toad_ (toad@82-32-18-233.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ("Killed by Cap (Requested by panasync)")
[18:05] <sdogi> i have 13 connections
[18:07] * yonkeltron (~yonkeltro@pcp04665066pcs.wilog501.pa.comcast.net) has joined #freenet
[18:09] <plixed> sdogi: for a broadband connection you should have ~80 connections and the same amount of transfers at least. try reseeding
[18:10] <sdogi> i have never had 80 connections
[18:11] <plixed> it depends on how much bandwidth you have / give freenet
[18:11] <sdogi> can't change it anymore
[18:12] <sdogi> freenet.conf doesn't have that option
[18:12] <sdogi> though i could shape it with qos
[18:12] <sdogi> but that will mess up things i guess
[18:12] <plixed> you can limit
[18:12] <plixed> with freenet
[18:14] <sdogi> from where? with webproxy?
[18:15] <plixed> inputBandwidthLimit, outputBandwidthLimit in freenet.conf
[18:16] <plixed> but if you only have 13 conns without limiting, you have problem with your seednodes.ref, try replacing it with the current one from http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/
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[18:20] * Sugadude (~Sugadude@serifos.eecs.harvard.edu) Quit ()
[18:21] <sdogi> ok
[18:21] <sdogi> anyway
[18:21] <sdogi> i have only three lines in freenet.conf
[18:21] <sdogi> with the recent version
[18:21] <sdogi> i don't know where did the other lines went
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[18:24] <plixed> they were all comments or commented out configuration options, i guess they were deleted by an automatic configuration / update script
[18:25] <plixed> i think in the freenet.tar.gz is an example .conf with all options
[18:28] <sdogi> well
[18:28] <sdogi> i restarted my node with new seeds
[18:29] <sdogi> plixed: though so.. i was just thinking that maby these options were removed with an purpose in mind
[18:29] <plixed> no
[18:30] <plixed> it's the other way around, they are not necessary, they have sane defaults, so they were all comments. only if you want different values than the default one you have to set them
[18:34] <sdogi> ok
[18:53] <sdogi> plixed: now i have 20 connections
[18:55] <plixed> let it run for 24h and see how many you have then
[18:55] <sdogi> oh
[18:55] <plixed> freenet is an exercise in patience ;)
[18:56] <sdogi> yeah well, anyway i haven't usually had over 20 or something like that connections
[18:56] <sdogi> though it has run very long time
[19:30] <patryk> So, I'm curious -- suppose I wanted to retrieve a CHK that was actually stored in my datastore
[19:31] <patryk> should I use localhost:8888/CHK@[Document-name]?
[19:34] * goatee_ is now known as goatee
[19:36] <plixed> patryk: should work
[19:37] <plixed> patryk: not document name, but key, like http://127.0.0.1:8888/SSK@9G4s~jLQJB7ALQg-v2q5xKAJy9YPAgM/CofE//
[19:38] <patryk> plixed: But where in the datastore do I look for "SSK@9G4s~jLQJB7ALQg-v2q5xKAJy9YPAgM/CofE//"?
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[19:40] <plixed> patryk: the data in the datastore is encrypted, so even if you translate the key from URI to hex and find the key in the datastore, you still need to decrypt the content
[19:45] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-243-211.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[19:53] <patryk> I have 118 connections but am still not able to get to CofE or TFE. [I also have about 600MB in my datastore.] Is this still normal?
[19:55] * sdogi (~johnny_E@80-235-33-109-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) Quit (Connection timed out)
[19:56] <sdogi_> be patient
[19:56] <sdogi_> and wait till u die
[19:56] * sdogi_ grins
[19:56] <jay> haha
[19:57] <sdogi_> patryk: as i understand it, this network reset removed most of the content
[19:57] <sdogi_> patryk: maby they haven't updated yet
[19:57] <sdogi_> patryk: or have u?
[19:58] <patryk> heheh
[19:58] <jay> 5099 was a network reset
[19:58] <patryk> Yeah I'm running 5099
[19:58] <sdogi_> patryk: do other sites open?
[19:58] <patryk> So "network reset" means that everyone is inserting all new content?
[19:58] <jay> patryk: how many incoming connections do you have?
[19:59] <patryk> sdogi_: No sites open for me over freenet from here. I've been running for 25 hours
[19:59] <patryk> 70 inbound connections
[19:59] <sdogi_> patryk: well i guess the content remains, but it's accessable when they update... people who have the content
[19:59] <sdogi_> yeah i have problems too
[19:59] <sdogi_> i got access to lots of sites when i upgraded
[20:00] <patryk> jay: I have transferred "2047MiB" of data, but I haven't seen a single image (like the icons on the bookmarks page)
[20:00] <sdogi_> but when my storage got full... hell i can't access anything anymore
[20:00] <jay> there's probably just little content
[20:00] <jay> a major insert bug was just fixed
[20:00] <sdogi_> jay: what bug was it anyway?
[20:00] <jay> patryk: that means your node is working, but everything you request isn't found
[20:01] <jay> sdogi_: something FNP level
[20:01] <patryk> jay: shouldn't those bookmark images be appearing on the main page at least?
[20:01] <patryk> (on the bookmark page)
[20:01] <jay> patryk: those images are from freenet itself
[20:01] <jay> so if they're blank it could mean they aren't in the network
[20:01] <sdogi_> patryk: some appeared to me, but the first two won't
[20:01] <jay> all i have is the Freedom Engine img
[20:02] <jay> there's action on the Frost boards
[20:02] <jay> can't get this? SSK@rBjVda8pC-Kq04jUurIAb8IzAGcPAgM/TFE//thelist.html
[20:02] * patryk is trying SSK@rBjVda8pC-Kq04jUurIAb8IzAGcPAgM/TFE//thelist.html
[20:03] <patryk> Actually I have been able to get 1 file before -- the gpl.txt file
[20:03] <jay> (from TFE) A Message From The Maintainer 1st November 2004, "So far Freenet build 5099 has been working out well for me. Long may it continue to do so."
[20:04] <sdogi_> yeah i see that too
[20:04] <sdogi_> unfortunately it doesn't work for me at all :(
[20:04] <jay> running frost helps things for the node quite a bit
[20:04] <jay> helps the node discover routes
[20:04] <sdogi_> what's frost?
[20:05] <jay> anon usenet-like program
[20:05] * patryk is getting frost
[20:05] <jay> http://jtcfrost.sf.net/
[20:05] <sdogi_> is it for linux too?
[20:05] <patryk> What if I wanted to increase my datastore size, do I have to reset the node? And do I lose stuff by doing it?
[20:06] <jay> nah just change the value in the conf file, then start the node
[20:06] <jay> afaik that will work
[20:06] <patryk> Stopping & starting is ok?
[20:06] <jay> stop first, change then start
[20:06] <jay> that's failsafe
[20:06] <patryk> cool
[20:07] <sdogi_> frost is only for windows?
[20:07] <jay> it's a java proggie
[20:07] <sdogi_> oh
[20:07] <jay> all u need is the .jar file really
[20:08] <sdogi_> this zip scared me
[20:08] <jay> yeah i don't know why he uses zip
[20:08] <sdogi_> well
[20:08] <jay> i think he's a java head
[20:08] <sdogi_> latest snapshot is broken
[20:08] <jay> latest stable works
[20:09] <patryk> HAHAHAH
[20:09] <patryk> "Sending IP Address to NSA"
[20:09] <jay> ah first time froster
[20:09] <sdogi_> where is that stable download anyway
[20:09] <sdogi_> most crappiest homepage i have ever seen
[20:10] <patryk> SSK@rBjVda8pC-Kq04jUurIAb8IzAGcPAgM/TFE//thelist.html --> Data Not Found
[20:10] <sdogi_> try 3 times to be sure
[20:10] <sdogi_> sometimes i get pages like that
[20:10] <sdogi_> forcing them to come to me
[20:11] <jay> sdogi_: hmm dunno
[20:12] <patryk> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/jtcfrost/ <-- complete file list
[20:12] <patryk> but I can't tell which would be the latest stable one
[20:13] <jay> 28-May-2004 is the latest stable
[20:13] <jay> man his page and links are real confusing
[20:14] <jay> im on the mailing list but otherwise how would one know?
[20:15] <sdogi_> don't know.. i managed to find one and downloaded it
[20:15] <sdogi_> fortunately it works too
[20:15] <jay> check off News->Automatic Update
[20:15] <jay> then let it run
[20:16] <patryk> jay: ok, will do
[20:16] <sdogi_> it starts up very long
[20:16] <sdogi_> i guess it's because i hate java
[20:16] <patryk> jay: I see that it has a checkmark next to it
[20:17] <jay> patryk: that's it
[20:18] <patryk> jay: Interesting, messages have already started coming in
[20:18] <patryk> awesome!
[20:18] <jay> nice
[20:18] <jay> you can config it to fetch messages from X days ago as well
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[20:21] <patryk> bumped it up from 3 to 6...
[20:21] <jay> in a minute im going to do some dirt car racing
[20:21] <jay> $2 game
[20:23] <patryk> enjoy
[20:25] <jay> http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-outlaws-sprint-cars/?ui=gamefinder
[20:25] <jay> got a great writeup
[20:26] <patryk> hmmm, just got a msg about 64 chars no longer being a limit, and this interfering with Frost function (in 5099)
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
