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[0:44] <KenMan> if you can see the moon, I think it is coming out of lunar eclipse right now. It is red on one side and white on the other.
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[2:31] <KenMan> WB lostlogic. Working to right my wronged system - heat ruined a DDR stick :( one 256MB left to hobble along on...
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[3:22] <tessier_> Is it just me or have the freenet mailing lists practically died compared to a year ago?
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[3:58] <KenMan> tessier_: there are more lists than before. You only see the immense traffic if you subscribe to them. Gmane surely doesn't show any traffic anywhere.
[3:59] <tessier_> What other lists are there besides -dev and -tech?
[3:59] <tessier_> and -chat and -support I guess
[3:59] <tessier_> I am on all of them. -dev traffic is way down from what it used to be and -tech barely gets a dozen posts a week
[4:00] <KenMan> besides, you weren't invited back for another 3 weeks,remember !? ("a week before thanksgiving")
[4:01] <KenMan> it would be useful if you tried 5099, and compared to what you saw a year ago.
[4:01] <tessier_> -support seems to be getting quite a bit of traffic. I rarely read that one.
[4:02] <tessier_> I don't know what made me think to pop in here.
[4:02] <KenMan> 5099 represents just about the best we can do, until the groundbreaking simulation effort breaks some ground.
[4:02] <KenMan> well, either dig in and report your experience to toad, or come back in 3 more weeks.
[4:02] <tessier_> I think it will have to be the latter because I am really swamped with work now.
[4:02] <KenMan> if nothing major has broken by then, it probably never will :(
[4:03] <KenMan> i am not a betting man, but I view the odds as 50:50 ...
[4:04] <KenMan> Clearly toad is not (yet) convinced that FreeNet canNOT work, or he wouldn't be here anymore.
[4:04] * KenMan quips 'time will tell'
[4:05] <KenMan> sanity and hobx have taken it upon themselves to determine (in secret) whether or not their vision/version of FreeNet can possibly work.
[4:05] <KenMan> And toad may just keep at it, if only to spite them :)
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[4:41] <tessier_> If it's secret how do you know?
[4:48] <kers> tessier_: you verify with NSA
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[7:11] <kevloral> g'morning all
[7:11] <d-ArkAngel> morning
[7:12] <d-ArkAngel> FIreFox 1.0RC1 is finaly up for download (after how many near releases? :-) )
[7:12] <d-ArkAngel> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/
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[7:15] <nextgens> hi all
[7:15] <d-ArkAngel> hi
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[7:26] <nextgens> Zorix : ping
[7:37] <nextgens> Did anyone use cgupnpjava? (A java UP&P SDK)
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[14:06] <toad_> yay http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20041026-4352.html
[14:07] <cbreak> :)
[14:10] <toad_> hehe, from the opinion: "See, e.g., Lawrence Lessig, Free Culture 187 (2004) (noting the danger that "in America fair use simply means the right to hire a lawyer to defend your right to create")."
[14:13] <toad_> ahem
[14:13] <toad_> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/27/038257
[14:13] * toad_ mumbles something about freenet ;).. although it's probably protected in the UK, so I probably shouldn't
[14:14] <Redb3ard> heh
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[14:19] <toad_> okay, this one is just a little surrealistic... http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/tcc/tccboot.html
[14:21] <Ribs> toad_: If you're not too busy... How do I work out what to put into the 'key' field when I insert a file with the web interface?
[14:23] <Redb3ard> weird
[14:23] <Redb3ard> its like gentoo on crack...
[14:24] <Redb3ard> you just dont compile from scratch, you do it at every boot!
[14:24] <cbreak> you can enter an SSK or KSK key, or the string "CHK@"
[14:25] <toad_> Ribs: CHK@
[14:25] <toad_> for a CHK
[14:25] <Ribs> okay, I need to read up on what these things are!
[14:26] <Ribs> best wait for my node to integrate again tho, can't load anything atm
[14:26] <cbreak> read nubile
[14:26] <cbreak> it may be old, but it still has some informational value.
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[14:27] <Ribs> is a CHK a 'one-time' freesite?
[14:27] <cbreak> it is a hash key
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[14:28] <cbreak> the key is based on the hash of the inserted file.
[14:32] <Ribs> cbreak: which ensures the file isn't corrupt when it's downloaded?
[14:33] <cbreak> no. well, I think the hash is checked, but it can not correct transfer errors.
[14:33] <cbreak> for that we have FEC Splitfiles.
[14:34] <Ribs> I have a lot to learn
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[14:52] <Redb3ard> lhee noox
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[15:11] <toad_> cbreak: yes
[15:11] <toad_> CHK is to show that the file isn't corrupted
[15:11] <toad_> we can prove that the file isn't corrupt
[15:11] <toad_> what we can't do is correct errors
[15:13] <plixed> FYI: my node runs 5099 w/ jre 1.5.0-b64 + nptl (no LD_ASSUME_KERNEL) + kernel 2.6.9 for about 3h without problems
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[15:21] <toad_> plixed: cool
[15:21] <toad_> it'll crash
[15:21] <toad_> eventually
[15:21] <toad_> or hang
[15:21] <toad_> or do something equally annoying
[15:22] <plixed> let's see how long it takes
[15:24] <plixed> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 120 (88/32/200), Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 120 (68/52), Total amount of data transferred 497 MiB
[15:24] <toad_> can anyone get ANY of the Diebold Democracy Carnival files from the new stable?
[15:24] <toad_> I'm not asking you to reinsert them (yet), but can you get them?
[15:24] <plixed> key?
[15:24] <toad_> IMNSHO they are important for our public relations as well as being important in their own right
[15:24] <toad_> http://127.0.0.1:8888/ssk@ijROtU5Ksue7Q5N4UZefFioV76EPAgM/1
[15:25] <toad_> the PDFs are under a CC license so don't be afraid to get them
[15:25] <toad_> (and read them)
[15:25] <toad_> the other stuff belongs to Diebold but is plainly in the public interest
[15:29] <plixed> got the diebold file list
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[15:32] <toad_> yup, can you get any of the files?
[15:41] <plixed> i just put them all into fuqid
[15:41] * toad_ hmmz
[15:42] <toad_> i have to run an htl=28 line somewhere...
[15:45] <plixed> bbv_chapter-1.pdf is done
[15:46] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-epass-0.025-400x50-supersmooth.png
[15:46] <toad_> observe purple!
[15:46] <Ribs> woo!
[15:46] <Ribs> uploading!
[15:47] <Ribs> ahem :)
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[15:56] <Ribs> toad_: I'm really liking Freenet now :)
[15:57] <toad_> Ribs: hmm?
[15:57] <toad_> you don't mind the slowness and the overload and the inability of it to just work, the lack of a search engine and the general suckiness?
[15:59] <Ribs> toad_: I've just uploaded my first freesite
[15:59] <toad_> cool
[15:59] <Ribs> the novelity is overwhelming me atm ;)
[15:59] <toad_> is it legal? if so, where?
[15:59] <Ribs> It's more than legal, it's pointless
[16:00] <Ribs> mearly a test site
[16:00] <cbreak> hmm... is purple intended to be good or bad? It looks quite bad to me... (well, apart from it being more or less stable)
[16:00] <Ribs> all it says is 'can you see this?' -- CHK@IaJ5kgYKTJLuQZfpxWn2VpdULyQKAwI%2c0rItat3FU1GOtA5AIB9i3w/index.html
[16:00] <plixed> toad_: you should add legal in which country ;-)
[16:01] <toad_> cbreak: it's supposed to be good.. it isn't :(
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[16:02] <cbreak> its interesting that the ones with less HTL are performing better... maybe a sim bug?
[16:02] <plixed> diebold_memos.txt is done
[16:02] <toad_> cbreak: definitely a sim bug
[16:02] <toad_> cool
[16:03] * toad_ uploads new jar with disk save throttling to spaetz.dyndns.org...
[16:03] <toad_> haing just revealed one of the places i run sims i expect it to be DoSd to death.. :)
[16:04] <cbreak> want to see my freepage? SSK@lETQsw020DlLnn53VPL7k2nioFAPAgM,TTwtpveTJUt1FrK1iIfziw/changelog//
[16:04] <Redb3ard> cool
[16:04] <Redb3ard> ill be sure to put up a page on the internet saying that cbreak runs SSK@lETQsw020DlLnn53VPL7k2nioFAPAgM,TTwtpveTJUt1FrK1iIfziw/changelog//
[16:05] <Redb3ard> and that cbreak is ~cbreak@dhcp-32-094.via-eth.ch
[16:05] <Redb3ard> ;)
[16:05] <cbreak> should be obvious :)
[16:05] <plixed> "Can you seeeeee this??? :))"
[16:06] <cbreak> but of course I could just have claimed a page I liked for my own :)
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[16:09] <Ribs> plixed: Dude!
[16:09] <Ribs> How cool is that?!
[16:09] <Ribs> :D
[16:10] <toad_> eh?
[16:10] <toad_> Redb3ard: put it up on freenet, then he can't force the provider to take it down ;)
[16:11] <plixed> " I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. That,
[16:11] <plixed> or Duder. His Dudeness. Or El Duderino.
[16:11] <plixed> "
[16:11] <Redb3ard> id just like to point out that nothing can protect your anonymity if you willingly give it up
[16:11] <Ribs> I'll calm down now
[16:11] <Redb3ard> or accidentally, for that matter
[16:15] <toad_> yup, security is hard. well duh. ask the americans in iraq ;)
[16:15] <toad_> Cruft was eventually blown
[16:15] <cbreak> I doubt I can lose anonymity on freenode. I have none :)
[16:15] <toad_> CofE has been very careful
[16:15] <toad_> but still, perhaps you can even find him
[16:15] <Ribs> Who's Cruft?
[16:16] <toad_> Thoughtcrime is rumoured to have been blown by a software bug...
[16:16] <toad_> Ribs: very old freesite owner
[16:16] <toad_> no longer extant
[16:16] <toad_> the site, that is
[16:16] <Ribs> and he blew is 'cover'?
[16:16] <Redb3ard> on my own network, i doubt that im very anonymous at all
[16:17] <Redb3ard> the rest have been fairly careful the whole time, i think
[16:17] <toad_> he got an email saying his flog entries give enough info to show he's XYZ, one of the devs
[16:17] <toad_> err not email
[16:17] <toad_> NIM or something
[16:17] <toad_> CofE's primary weakness is hushmail
[16:17] <toad_> but there aren't that many alternatives
[16:19] <cbreak> one reason to have multiple identities
[16:19] <Redb3ard> true
[16:20] <Redb3ard> on mine, activity often gives clues to time zones
[16:20] <Redb3ard> so i dunno
[16:20] <Redb3ard> personally, i think that its just as likely you work third shift in the US, as it is that you're in central asia
[16:21] <toad_> [toad@hard-core toad]$ du simsave/nonfullyconnected/nfcnodes\=400/nfcrt\=50/htl\=23/storesize\=100-fetchfrac\=0.025/pcaching-probref-longestimators-fastestimators-altannounce-probeinexperience-randomizewhenequal-estimatorpassing/movementfactor\=0.05-buckets\=8-newbiehits\=200/2004-10-22-14-42-36/
[16:21] <toad_> 2696604 simsave/nonfullyconnected/nfcnodes=400/nfcrt=50/htl=23/storesize=100-fetchfrac=0.025/pcaching-probref-longestimators-fastestimators-altannounce-probeinexperience-randomizewhenequal-estimatorpassing/movementfactor=0.05-buckets=8-newbiehits=200/2004-10-22-14-42-36/
[16:21] <toad_> yeah, timing is an issue
[16:21] <toad_> Mailman could just have been excessively paranoid in True Names
[16:33] * toad_ wonders if d-ArkAngel is around...
[16:33] <toad_> has emailed him...
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[16:58] -lilo- [Global Notice] Hi all. There's a news item up on the freenode site. Topics: New #accounting channel for not-for-profit entities, PayPal fee-free day and donations. Have a great day, and thank you for using freenode! :)
[16:59] -lilo- [Global Notice] News page: http://freenode.net/news.shtml
[17:01] <toad_> hmmm
[17:01] <toad_> my downlink is saturated; i wonder why..
[17:01] <toad_> any easy way to find out?
[17:01] <d-ArkAngel> it's all that horse porn you're downloading
[17:01] <toad_> :)
[17:02] <d-ArkAngel> netstat might show you what connections are active
[17:02] <d-ArkAngel> tho I've never found a good way to see what % each is using
[17:02] <cbreak> you could "lsof" to find out the open sockets and then selectively kill the processes :)
[17:02] <cbreak> (Or shield the ports with a FW :)
[17:02] * bd_ (~bd_@Student70.mssm.org) Quit ("Installing new DVD writer")
[17:02] <plixed> iptraf
[17:10] <toad_> hmmm
[17:10] * toad_ pinging amphibian.dyndns.org from hard-core
[17:10] <toad_> crap results
[17:10] <d-ArkAngel> my connection has slowed to a crawl again...
[17:10] <toad_> i kill the download
[17:10] <toad_> and it recovers
[17:10] <toad_> okay
[17:10] <toad_> lets call it 4kB/secv
[17:11] <d-ArkAngel> see I can understand why it has such an impact...
[17:11] <toad_> lets see what happens to the ping...
[17:11] <toad_> well, it's started...
[17:11] <toad_> and the ping seems okay..
[17:11] <toad_> so far...
[17:11] <toad_> it has definitely risen a bit but not enough to be worrying
[17:12] <toad_> hmmm
[17:12] <toad_> now it's rising quite a bit
[17:12] <toad_> it's variable
[17:12] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: how does it "feel" ?
[17:12] <d-ArkAngel> yeah....
[17:12] * d-ArkAngel feels it
[17:12] <toad_> i'm surprised that rsync doesn't have an adapt-bandwidth-to-target-ping option, that'd be useful...
[17:12] <d-ArkAngel> hmmm, there's deffinately some badness. seems ok tho...
[17:13] <toad_> ok, lets call it 4
[17:13] <toad_> bbiab
[17:13] <d-ArkAngel> I just can't understand why this kills it, and yet I can download/upoload stuff otherwise without these problems...
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[17:57] * cbreak (~cbreak@dhcp-32-094.via-eth.ch) Quit ("leaving")
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[18:47] <kevloral> esto... irc-hispano no tiene acceso por ipv6, verdad?
[18:47] <kevloral> uh, sorry, wrong channel
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[19:17] <toad_> hi
[19:17] <d-ArkAngel> hi
[19:17] * plixed (~plixed@p50823D29.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
[19:20] <toad_> hmmm
[19:20] * toad_ started a command line fetch of CofE... yesterday...
[19:20] <toad_> it's still going!
[19:20] <d-ArkAngel> what causes you to hmmm master toad?
[19:20] <d-ArkAngel> Church of England?
[19:20] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[19:23] <toad_> Content of Unrighteousness
[19:23] <toad_> err
[19:23] <toad_> Content of unrightEousness
[19:23] <toad_> ;)
[19:23] <d-ArkAngel> is that the same thing? :-)
[19:23] <toad_> hehe
[19:23] <toad_> not quite
[19:24] <toad_> the transfer is going acceptably and not messing your link up?
[19:24] <d-ArkAngel> my link seems ok
[19:24] <d-ArkAngel> I've not had much else happening on the network, but I guess it's working well enough
[19:25] <d-ArkAngel> [OT] - George Bush has seen off some stiff competition to win Total Film magazine's movie Villain of the Year, the London Evening Standard reports.
[19:25] <toad_> LOL
[19:26] <toad_> in what movie? fahrenheit 9/11?
[19:26] <d-ArkAngel> yup
[19:27] <toad_> "platelet deficiency" is another way of saying "low white blood cell count", right?
[19:27] <d-ArkAngel> kinda
[19:27] <toad_> (that question is totally off topic, of course)
[19:28] <d-ArkAngel> platelets are a small things that are designed to plug small holes in your circulatory system
[19:28] <d-ArkAngel> I think...
[19:28] <toad_> platelets not the same as white blood cells?
[19:28] <toad_> i thought WBCs were part of the immune system?
[19:28] <d-ArkAngel> I don't think so... not 100%
[19:29] <d-ArkAngel> they are
[19:29] <d-ArkAngel> WBC's are the immune response, but platelets are something related to scab formation I think...
[19:29] <d-ArkAngel> (be aware I'm a geek not a doctor :-) )
[19:29] <toad_> okay, so that IS actually new information
[19:30] <toad_> and it might even be treatable
[19:30] <toad_> cool (for arafat anyway.. whether it's cool for everyone else remains to be seen!)
[19:30] <d-ArkAngel> google always knows the answer... http://sln.fi.edu/biosci/blood/platelet.html
[19:31] * toad_ down calls the thunder, in a trolling sense, by referring to The Conflict That We Dare Not Name
[19:31] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[19:32] <toad_> okay, if I was to run obwlog constantly, and bwlog, that would cost how much disk space?
[19:32] <toad_> Thu Oct 28 23:33:47 BST 2004 1125645573 12869
[19:32] <d-ArkAngel> on the subject of blogging I know nothing I'm afraid.
[19:32] <toad_> 46 characters per second...
[19:32] <toad_> not blogging
[19:32] <toad_> other kind of log
[19:33] <toad_> 1.4GB/year
[19:33] <toad_> no problem, i'll never have that uptime, just always overwrite it
[19:33] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[19:33] <toad_> hmmm
[19:33] <toad_> i need a ping anchor
[19:33] <toad_> what can i ping all day long and it won't mind?
[19:34] <d-ArkAngel> microsoft.com
[19:34] <toad_> heh, no, they'd get me kicked off my ISP for DoSing them
[19:34] <toad_> freenetproject.org? no, it's hosted by sf.net...
[19:34] <d-ArkAngel> that's who I used for all my network tests.
[19:34] <toad_> dodo.freenetproject.org...
[19:35] <toad_> M$.com doesn't respond to ping anyway
[19:35] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) Quit (Client Quit)
[19:35] <d-ArkAngel> as well as the base domain for any fake e-mails I need (you know on dumb sites where you get lots of junk mail)
[19:35] <toad_> i just create a one-off email address on amphibian
[19:35] <toad_> and delete it when i don't need it any more
[19:36] <d-ArkAngel> I used to do that, then I found out exactly how much bandwidth all the junk was costing me. :-)
[19:36] <toad_> well, for ones that promise not to send spam :)
[19:36] <toad_> i have them redirect to my main account
[19:36] <d-ArkAngel> I put a catch all account, and it caught 800 junk mails in one day
[19:36] <toad_> wow
[19:36] <d-ArkAngel> sorry, two days
[19:37] <toad_> any ideas for spam killers? we had some problems with spamassassin on dodo...
[19:37] <d-ArkAngel> (I meant to say two days...)
[19:37] <toad_> okay, I want a script...
[19:37] <toad_> it makes a log
[19:37] <d-ArkAngel> spamassassin is good
[19:37] <d-ArkAngel> but there's a better one that's based arround authentication of sender address.
[19:38] * yonkel-cluster (~yonkeltro@pcp04665066pcs.wilog501.pa.comcast.net) has joined #freenet
[19:38] <d-ArkAngel> tmda
[19:38] <d-ArkAngel> that's the one I was thinking of
[19:39] <toad_> <DATE> <TIME> <Bandwidth inbound used since last write> <Bandwidth inbound used since last write> <Ping to dodo.freenetproject.org> <ping to some convenient US site><ping to 192.168.1.2><cpu usage><system load>
[19:39] <toad_> then i can cross reference this against logs of the node doing wierd shit
[19:40] <d-ArkAngel> http://tmda.net/
[19:40] * toad_ doesn't like host-based blacklists...
[19:41] <d-ArkAngel> but that's the clever bit
[19:41] <toad_> challenge/response is interesting...
[19:41] <d-ArkAngel> I never put anything in the blacklist
[19:41] <toad_> but it needs to quote the entire email
[19:41] <d-ArkAngel> it's just convinetnt in case any spamer goes to the effort.
[19:41] <toad_> otherwise I'm not going to bother with it
[19:42] <d-ArkAngel> yeah, it sents it back with something like "you sent this ...." was this really you?
[19:42] <d-ArkAngel> if someone replies then it adds them to the whitelist.
[19:42] <toad_> yeah, i've seen them
[19:42] <toad_> they ask you to confirm via a web address, and don't quote the original email
[19:42] <toad_> i don't bother usually
[19:43] <d-ArkAngel> it uses public key crypto, all you do is hit reply and send
[19:43] <toad_> does it quote at least the subject of the email?
[19:43] <d-ArkAngel> it's templateable, mine sent the title, and a copy of the body of the e-mail
[19:43] <d-ArkAngel> it's fairly customisable
[19:43] <toad_> what's the default?
[19:44] <toad_> one thing that would definitely be helpful would be "vmstat 1" style logs
[19:44] <toad_> but i'd need it to include the date
[19:44] <d-ArkAngel> try out sending to it... tmdatest@tmda.net
[19:46] <d-ArkAngel> in fact I was lying about the subject... it's the e-mail addres... it uses mail addresses like "robert-confirm-338239829@scabserver.com"
[19:46] <toad_> cool
[19:46] <toad_> that goes to /dev/null, right?
[19:46] <toad_> if i confirm it?
[19:46] <toad_> or it bounces it back to me?
[19:46] <d-ArkAngel> "To see what the confirmation process looks like, send me a test message, and then reply to the confirmation request. "
[19:46] <d-ArkAngel> from thier webpage
[19:46] <d-ArkAngel> so I assume that it's not read
[19:47] <toad_> wait a minute
[19:47] <toad_> all i need is an off the shelf monitoring thingy
[19:47] <toad_> know any good ones?
[19:48] <d-ArkAngel> monitoring of what?
[19:48] <toad_> i just want logs (and graphs) with minute or second accuracy of the cpu usage and network bandwidth over a single interface over the last say week
[19:48] <toad_> know any nice ones?
[19:48] <toad_> preferably with debian packages?
[19:48] <d-ArkAngel> nope
[19:49] * toad_ tries on freshmeat
[19:49] <d-ArkAngel> I've used a tool called SIM before that monitors things like that, but it takes actions on conditions rather than logging I think
[19:49] <toad_> hmmm if i can ever get to freshmeat...
[19:50] <toad_> there must be sysadmins around on #freenet ... anyone know anything that does what i'm looking for?
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[20:01] <toad_> hmmm
[20:01] <toad_> Big Sister, perhaps
[20:02] <d-ArkAngel> on which note I'm going to go get some sleep.
[20:02] <d-ArkAngel> night all
[20:03] * d-ArkAngel (~robert@cpc2-midd2-5-0-cust16.midd.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[20:27] <toad_> shit
[20:27] <toad_> i found what might be an nio library bug
[20:27] <toad_> or might just be a code misunderstanding, but if it is, then the api REALLY sucks
[20:27] <toad_> BucketTools.copy(Bucket, Bucket)
[20:27] <toad_> observe
[20:28] <toad_> it creates a wrapper channel for each bucket, one to write, one to read
[20:28] <toad_> now, the problem is this:
[20:28] <toad_> the wrapper input channel will read from the InputStream
[20:28] <toad_> IF the InputStream returns -1, rather than throwing, which is valid i think, then the wrapper channel will return 0
[20:29] <toad_> with the result that we go around the loop again
[20:29] <toad_> and again
[20:29] <toad_> and again
[20:29] <toad_> forever
[20:30] <toad_> yep, returning -1 is valid
[20:31] <toad_> okay
[20:31] <toad_> i'll implement a workaround, write a trivial test case, and report it to sun, tomorrow
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[23:39] <KenMan> found & fixed a bug in my key ref-counting code - with static connections, success does stabilize...
[23:40] <KenMan> IMHO this is good thing
[23:45] <Zorix> 5100?
[23:45] <Zorix> :P
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
