Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:22] * dystopia_ (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) has joined #freenet
[0:23] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[0:23] * dystopia_ is now known as dystopia
[0:40] * plixed (~plixed@c160022.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #freenet
[0:48] * bd_ (~bd_@Student70.mssm.org) has joined #freenet
[1:02] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-246-103.abhsia.telus.net) Quit ("\(^_^)/' No Soliciting!!! Unless you have legs way, way up and really, really big tits....")
[1:16] * plixed (~plixed@c160022.adsl.hansenet.de) Quit (Connection timed out)
[1:18] * bd_ (~bd_@Student70.mssm.org) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[1:23] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[1:23] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) has joined #freenet
[1:28] * plixed (~plixed@c159073.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #freenet
[1:28] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[1:28] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[1:35] * dystopia_ (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) has joined #freenet
[1:36] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[1:36] * dystopia_ is now known as dystopia
[1:57] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-246-103.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[2:05] * spaetz_ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #freenet
[2:31] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[2:32] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) has joined #freenet
[2:48] * KenMan (~dogzilla@pcp403292pcs.mntcrm01.md.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[2:49] * kevloral (~kevloral@CZ1-RAS-8-u-0179.du.onolab.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[2:52] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) Quit ("Client exiting")
[2:56] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@abb19.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[3:00] * spaetz__ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #freenet
[3:00] * spaetz__ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:03] * Usurp is away: night all
[3:11] * dystopia_ (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) has joined #freenet
[3:12] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[3:12] * dystopia_ is now known as dystopia
[3:39] * spaetz__ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #freenet
[3:51] * spaetz_ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[4:25] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) has joined #FreeNet
[4:41] * ShaunMacPherson (~ShaunMac@Sudbury-HSE-ppp3977962.sympatico.ca) has left #Freenet
[5:02] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@abb19.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[5:08] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) Quit ("Visit http://CyberLore.net for recommendations on the best games, websites and freeware. Don't settle for anything else!")
[5:11] * spaetz__ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[5:16] * d-ArkAngel (~Rob@213-131-104-86.onyx.net) has joined #freenet
[5:17] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@170.252.64.1) has joined #freenet
[5:18] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@170.252.64.1) has left #freenet
[5:21] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs68206255-46.houston.rr.com) Quit ()
[6:08] * nextime (~nextime@ns0.nexlab.net) Quit ("Guest26086 has no reason")
[6:58] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aaq67.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[6:58] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer))
[6:58] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aaq67.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[6:58] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[6:59] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aaq67.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[7:02] * bd_ (~bd_@Student70.mssm.org) has joined #freenet
[7:22] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-245-123.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[7:28] * kevloral (~kevloral@CZ1-RAS-8-u-0179.du.onolab.com) has joined #freenet
[7:28] <kevloral> g'morning all
[7:34] * nextime (~nextime@ns0.nexlab.net) has joined #freenet
[7:43] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-246-103.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[7:49] * Debolaz1T (~debolaz@agimle423.krs.hia.no) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[7:50] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-246-103.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[8:06] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) has joined #FreeNet
[8:14] <toad_> A Message From The Maintainer
[8:14] <toad_> 27th October 2004
[8:14] <toad_> I have decided not to recognise the latest stable builds, and their routing resets, until such time as they officially exist via some kind of general announcement that doesn't involve relying on Freenet users avidly following the development mailing lists. An update on the main project web site would be nice for example ...
[8:14] <toad_> hey, i posted to support as well! ;)
[8:14] <toad_> but he has a point
[8:22] <Ash-Fox> I never check the mailing lists or website
[8:22] <Ash-Fox> you should make freenet retrieve a DNS TXT record that contains the news :P
[8:29] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aaq67.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[8:38] <d-ArkAngel> "The Maintainer"? some sort of shadowy overlord?
[8:38] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[8:44] <toad_> Freenet Emergency Broadcast System...
[8:44] <Redb3ard> wait a second
[8:45] <Redb3ard> you said that was a dumb idea, when you read my article toad
[8:45] <toad_> hmm?
[8:45] <toad_> what was?
[8:45] <Redb3ard> <toad_> Freenet Emergency Broadcast System...
[8:45] <toad_> ahhh
[8:45] <Redb3ard> ;)
[8:46] <d-ArkAngel> toad_: what's the reason for a routing reset when you fixed the insert bugs?
[8:46] <toad_> that was just a comment on the above; we will implement a project freesite eventually, when we figure out how to secure it
[8:46] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: so that the bugfixes propagate
[8:46] <toad_> and we know that any remaining problems are not caused by them
[8:47] <d-ArkAngel> just to remove the old "buggy" nodes from the network in one step then?
[8:47] <toad_> yeah basically
[8:47] <toad_> today i have to:
[8:47] <toad_> - update the web page
[8:47] <Redb3ard> just kidding dude
[8:47] <toad_> - look into insert multiplication bug
[8:48] <toad_> - run an htl=28 line to compare with the others; maybe the simulations are broke because of a code change
[8:48] <toad_> - make a safe (can't be exploited to explode memory) QR breakdown on the Open Connections page
[8:48] <d-ArkAngel> toad, I re enabaled rsync last night (the HDD reached fullness.
[8:49] <toad_> so?
[8:49] <d-ArkAngel> I can't seem to SSH in from the outside....
[8:49] <d-ArkAngel> can you?
[8:49] <toad_> is that scabserver?
[8:49] <d-ArkAngel> yeah
[8:50] <toad_> debug1: Connecting to www.scabserver.com [80.5.67.16] port 1234.
[8:50] <toad_> debug1: Connection established.
[8:50] <toad_> debug1: identity file /root/.ssh/id_dsa type 2
[8:51] <d-ArkAngel> it just takes forever to get connected and times out before it accepts my username/password
[8:51] <toad_> debug1: Found key in /root/.ssh/known_hosts:46
[8:52] <toad_> it seems to be getting there, sloowly
[8:52] <d-ArkAngel> the only thing i can think of is maybe rsync is using huge volumes of small packets and the 600Mhz linux router isn't able to cope....
[8:52] <toad_> auth succeeded
[8:52] <toad_> waiting for console
[8:52] <toad_> got console
[8:52] <toad_> which is also fscking slow :|
[8:52] <d-ArkAngel> the slowness applies to all network connections via that internet connection.
[8:53] <toad_> hmmm
[8:53] <toad_> that's not good
[8:53] <d-ArkAngel> it's very strange that it should have such a devistateing effect.
[8:53] <toad_> do i have a dozen rsync's running at once on it?
[8:55] <toad_> it is.. kill them
[8:55] * toad_ kills them
[8:56] * toad_ needs to figure out a way to do lockfiles in bash...
[8:58] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-245-123.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[8:58] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) Quit ("Going to the moon")
[9:00] <toad_> okay, done that, it works
[9:00] <toad_> now you'll only have one at a time :)
[9:02] <toad_> nonfullyconnected/nfcnodes=400/nfcrt=50/htl=23/storesize=100-fetchfrac=0.025/pcaching-probref-longestimators-fastestimators-altannounce-probeinexperience-randomizewhenequal-estimatorpassing/movementfactor=0.05-buckets=8-newbiehits=200/2004-10-22-14-42-36/2004-10-23-00-05-06
[9:02] <toad_> bbiab
[9:05] * jabawok_w (~jabawok_w@203-59-59-49.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[9:09] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-246-103.abhsia.telus.net) Quit ("\(^_^)/' No Soliciting!!! Unless you have legs way, way up and really, really big tits....")
[9:11] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) Quit ("Visit http://CyberLore.net for recommendations on the best games, websites and freeware. Don't settle for anything else!")
[9:11] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-246-103.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[9:22] * jabawok_w (~jabawok_w@203-59-59-49.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #freenet
[9:31] <d-ArkAngel> toad_ even with just the one rsync running, it's being just as slow for me to connect...
[9:31] <d-ArkAngel> I've looked and there's 0.00 load on the router machine, so that thought of mine is essential void...
[9:36] * robilad (~topic@mpiat2313.ag2.mpi-sb.mpg.de) has joined #freenet
[9:39] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[9:39] * pupok_ (~r00t@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[9:39] * spaetz_ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #freenet
[9:40] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[9:45] * FallingBuzzard (~srademach@207.152.112.129) has joined #freenet
[9:48] * pupok_ (~r00t@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[9:51] * spaetz_ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit ("leaving")
[10:03] * kevloral is now known as kevlAway
[10:10] * cbreak (~cbreak@dhcp-32-094.via-eth.ch) has joined #freenet
[10:19] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) has joined #freenet
[10:28] * spaetz_ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #freenet
[11:07] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@170.252.64.1) has joined #freenet
[11:07] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@170.252.64.1) has left #freenet
[11:15] * toad_ hehe @ SSK@1QMRixJVfL0LgQiou90NyAtag7YPAgM,MeeWHGZ2fA8LTiqAi3za8w/gems//
[11:15] * kevlAway (~kevloral@CZ1-RAS-8-u-0179.du.onolab.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[11:16] <toad_> of course it's an intractable problem
[11:16] <toad_> that's why you need a paper trail (because paper trails can't be faked, sure )
[11:17] * toad_ fears that the only way to secure an election is to give people receipts, but if you give people receipts they'll be able to sell their votes
[11:17] <toad_> SSK@WL4cWt7Pq6MEHz7ekBfW2gsSqSQPAgM/devl//
[11:18] <toad_> ummm
[11:18] <toad_> where are the messages?
[11:19] <plixed> usually people vote for the party which promises them money
[11:19] <cbreak> no message.
[11:20] <toad_> plixed: so how come the democrats get in?
[11:20] <toad_> or Labour in the UK?
[11:20] <toad_> parties which are nominally committed to spending?
[11:21] <plixed> not all are rich, some get their money from the state
[11:22] <toad_> or perhaps, "it's the economy stupid"
[11:22] <toad_> i.e. even the rich vote New Labour because they don't think the tories can be trusted with the economy
[11:22] <Redb3ard> i cant vote
[11:23] <Redb3ard> voting for either is a losing proposition
[11:23] <Redb3ard> i dont want to vote for the one that gives me more money, because either handout is chump change
[11:23] <Redb3ard> i want to vote for a party that actually gives a damn about fixing things
[11:23] <toad_> oh, they all do that
[11:24] <toad_> they just fix them in ways you don't like :)
[11:24] <Redb3ard> fix, as in repair
[11:24] <Redb3ard> not fix, as in "the fix is in"
[11:25] <d-ArkAngel> if it's a fix there's no point voteing.
[11:25] <d-ArkAngel> ;-)
[11:25] <toad_> how about "create a new problem, and then fix it" ?
[11:25] <Redb3ard> how about fix all our old ones first
[11:25] <toad_> nah, that's no fun
[11:25] * plixed_ (~plixed@c159073.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #freenet
[11:26] <toad_> you can pretend to tax and spend while at the same time pretending not to, by e.g. freezing your spending for the first term, then apparently spending lots, while spending real terms less than thatcher did ;)
[11:26] <d-ArkAngel> no, it's more like "*TRY* and fix the problem, fail, and create a dozen nice shiny new problems to promise to fix next election"
[11:27] <toad_> well, i hope that's not true _now_, but...
[11:27] * plixed_ (~plixed@c159073.adsl.hansenet.de) Quit (Client Quit)
[11:27] <toad_> how about "fix problem by translating it into new problems" ? that's the normal human activity
[11:27] <toad_> e.g. fix the problems in iraq by invading and creating new ones
[11:27] <toad_> fix the problems in the middle east by funding both sides of the iran-iraq war
[11:28] <d-ArkAngel> lol @ "spend less than thatcher" .... and he didn't even get his revolution ;-)
[11:28] <toad_> fix the problems in afghanistan by paying for the taliban... !
[11:29] <d-ArkAngel> well when they're happy killing each other, they're not killing us right? (gotta love armchair politics)
[11:29] <toad_> fix the illusory problems of piracy (and the real problems of open source!) by introducing mandatory DRM...
[11:29] <toad_> and software patents
[11:29] <toad_> and whatever else hollywood decides is necessary to destroy the western economies
[11:29] <toad_> and then blame it on outsourcing
[11:30] <toad_> 2020: our tech industry is in the shit, not because we let hollywood and a few others destroy all innovation in our tech industry, but because of those filthy indians!!
[11:31] <toad_> ;)
[11:31] <d-ArkAngel> lol
[11:31] <toad_> on that note.. i need to contact kers
[11:31] * plixed_ (~plixed@c159073.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #freenet
[11:31] <Redb3ard> it doesnt help, outsourcing
[11:32] <toad_> so? what do you want to do about it?
[11:32] <Redb3ard> lessen the powers of corporations
[11:32] <Redb3ard> encourage capital in non-inc companies where people are at least partially accountable
[11:32] <toad_> how, precisely? and in any case, if it's cheaper to have call centers in india, why shouldn't call centers be in india?
[11:33] <d-ArkAngel> The time for the insurrection is near
[11:33] <Redb3ard> of course, not a perfect fix, and definitely not a quick one
[11:33] <Redb3ard> would take 50 years for that approach to rectify things
[11:33] <toad_> a lot of nonprofits are totally corrupt too
[11:33] <toad_> but i do prefer cooperatives to floated corps, of course
[11:33] <Redb3ard> toad, cheaper now
[11:33] <Redb3ard> if you could save $5 today, but it means you dont get a million dollars tomorrow, which would you do?
[11:34] <Redb3ard> spend the $5, or keep it?
[11:34] <toad_> Redb3ard: what do you mean?
[11:34] <Redb3ard> corporations only see today
[11:34] <Redb3ard> or more literally, 3 months out
[11:34] <toad_> no, investors can see the long term - look at all the speculation in the oil market
[11:34] <toad_> of course, often they don't
[11:34] <toad_> but they can
[11:34] <Redb3ard> speculation is a short term gain
[11:34] <d-ArkAngel> actually having worked for a BIG corp, they often don't look beyond the golf course...
[11:35] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: same goes for government institutions
[11:35] <Redb3ard> why would you buy and sell IBM stock for a few extra pennies, when if you sit on it for 30 years, it *always* goes up
[11:35] <Redb3ard> because you're short term
[11:35] <toad_> can't see beyond the latest round of expensive hardware backhanders
[11:35] <Redb3ard> you're gambling
[11:35] <toad_> well to be fair not always hardware ;)
[11:35] <Redb3ard> a small business owned by one man has at least a 10 yr outlook
[11:35] <Redb3ard> maybe 30 or 40 years
[11:36] <Redb3ard> corporations, 3 months
[11:36] <Redb3ard> a day trader, 30 minutes
[11:36] <d-ArkAngel> you'd be amased how often there's a big debate about the future direction of the company being xxxx and then suddenly someone spends $40,000,000 on servers from company yyyy that don't do what you need, and you get told to find a use for them so people don't get sacked for it.
[11:36] <toad_> i know what we can do, we'll do thin-client windows XP on the whole institution! it'll cost a million for software and another million for hardware and it'll suck, but we can make backhanders galore..
[11:36] <Redb3ard> so, when that call center goes to india, and someone who might have made it over here long enough to become productive, and the typical american consumer 5 years down the line....
[11:37] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: because some exec who had no idea what he was doing got a nice looking sales brochure
[11:37] <Redb3ard> in 5 years, theyll be in a ghetto instead, and not buying anything
[11:37] <d-ArkAngel> or in fact my job went to central spain
[11:37] <Redb3ard> more simply
[11:37] <toad_> Redb3ard: yeah, so? there are other jobs - there'd better be other jobs
[11:37] <toad_> you have two options
[11:38] <toad_> 1 is to keep the jobs here
[11:38] <toad_> this basically boils down to imperialism
[11:38] <Redb3ard> would you rather lose a little money, and make sure that everyone in your own country is richer in a few years, considering that you make stuff that richer people will want to buy?
[11:38] * plixed (~plixed@c159073.adsl.hansenet.de) Quit (Connection timed out)
[11:38] <toad_> I'm not especially loyal to my country
[11:38] <d-ArkAngel> on a global scale outsourceing is better.
[11:38] <Redb3ard> as for "other jobs", at some point there wont be other jobs
[11:38] <d-ArkAngel> share the wealth
[11:39] <toad_> outsourcing is good because it helps the people who get the jobs, and the rich countries can afford to reskill
[11:39] <Redb3ard> in the early 90s, clinton said we'd be service industry
[11:39] <Redb3ard> programmers and developers, and whatnot
[11:39] <toad_> no, because india won't always be massively cheaper labour than the west
[11:39] <toad_> as they get more jobs, jobs will become more expensive
[11:39] <Redb3ard> those were the jobs, that would replace all our lost manufacturing jobs
[11:39] <Redb3ard> but, there is nothing to replace them
[11:39] <Redb3ard> biotech?
[11:39] <Redb3ard> unlikely
[11:39] <toad_> new markets
[11:39] <toad_> just after WWII, they had similar problems
[11:39] <Redb3ard> thats an industry that at most, needs a few thousand, *highly trained/educated* workers
[11:39] <toad_> so they invented new stuff that everyone had to buy
[11:40] <Redb3ard> there is no new "next industry"
[11:40] <toad_> in the 80s, they figured out how to make people buy a car more than three times in a lifetime
[11:40] <Redb3ard> we cant all be day traders and lawyers
[11:40] <toad_> nowadays, they've got huge emerging markets in the third world, funded by exactly the globalization that is moving the jobs around
[11:40] <toad_> if the jobs go to india, then that means there are more consumers buying more stuff for more money in india
[11:41] <toad_> which means more jobs total
[11:41] <Redb3ard> yeh
[11:41] <Redb3ard> except that i dont live in india
[11:41] <toad_> and india will slowly catch up in terms of wages
[11:41] <Redb3ard> more so, india wont let me immigrate
[11:41] <d-ArkAngel> have you asked them?
[11:41] <toad_> end result: we both have roughly similar economies
[11:41] <Redb3ard> so, ill get to live in a third world country in my old age, without ever having moved to another country
[11:41] <d-ArkAngel> and then we both start outsoruceing to ethiopia....
[11:41] <toad_> Redb3ard: I'm sure they'd be happy to have you, by indian standards you're well off - as long as you line up a job in advance and learn the language
[11:42] <Redb3ard> no, they wont
[11:42] <Redb3ard> read an article, india loves investors
[11:42] <Redb3ard> so if im bringing in $1 million USD, to start up a factory there, im welcome
[11:42] <Redb3ard> but if im just moving there, i cant
[11:42] <Redb3ard> literally
[11:42] <toad_> Redb3ard: no, america may be slightly poorer, but india will be a lot richer; whether it ends up richer than america, i don't know, but neither will be as poor as india is _NOW_, and I don't give a shit what the nationalist perspective is
[11:42] <cbreak> they are a bit overcrowded there...
[11:43] <Redb3ard> toad, assuming a nice, slow averaging out
[11:43] <d-ArkAngel> they'll start outsourceing just like we did.
[11:43] <toad_> sure
[11:43] <toad_> and that's a problem because...?
[11:43] <Redb3ard> but, other things tend to bounce quite a bit, before reaching an equilibrium
[11:43] <toad_> you can't outsource to Uganda
[11:43] <d-ArkAngel> eventually we'll all be outsourced to each other
[11:43] <Redb3ard> whos to say this wont be like that?
[11:43] <toad_> not unless you're CocaCola anyway
[11:43] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: we already are
[11:43] <d-ArkAngel> and half the world population will descibe them selves as a middle manager :-)
[11:43] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: that's what the multinational corps are
[11:43] <Redb3ard> yeh
[11:44] <Redb3ard> and thats when they say "jokes on you" we dont need middle managers
[11:44] <toad_> you CAN outsource to Uganda if you first make peace and deal with the aids problem
[11:44] <toad_> or if you're a totally lawless corp who prefers to avoid government regulation :)
[11:44] <d-ArkAngel> but people starting to outsource there will start to solve such problems anyway...
[11:44] <toad_> Redb3ard: so it's better that there are jobs in the West and poverty in the Rest?
[11:44] <d-ArkAngel> "most" places the problems stem from economic hardships
[11:45] <Redb3ard> toad, i dont object to raising the rest of the world up
[11:45] <Redb3ard> i do object to lowering ourselves to accomplish that
[11:45] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: sure, and often that results from imperialism - you must buy our subsidized goods, but you're not allowed to sell us stuff you're good at
[11:45] <Redb3ard> besides, not about raising them up
[11:45] <Redb3ard> if it were, we could have done that a long time ago
[11:46] <toad_> these things take time
[11:46] <Redb3ard> its about exploitation, but just not enough that it pisses off activists
[11:46] <toad_> and I'm not saying that anything here is motivated by altruism
[11:46] <toad_> and I'm sure there's major injustice involved
[11:46] <Redb3ard> mind you, i dont want tarriffs and what not
[11:46] <toad_> but I can't see the west as the victims here
[11:46] <Redb3ard> those are unfair
[11:46] <Redb3ard> i said castrate corporations
[11:47] <toad_> how?
[11:47] <d-ArkAngel> no matter how much you try and exploit a group of people, if you're giving them money you can't exploit them forever, because eventually you've got as much money as they do
[11:47] <toad_> right
[11:47] <Redb3ard> haha
[11:47] <cbreak> yes! First time more than 100 connected Nodes :)
[11:47] <toad_> more even distribution of economics is a good thing
[11:47] <Redb3ard> money itself is manipulated
[11:47] <Redb3ard> toad, you say that while the bank of england manipulates everything so that htey own a good 97% of the worlds economy
[11:48] <toad_> Redb3ard: eh?
[11:48] <Redb3ard> im all for evenly distributing it
[11:48] <toad_> the bank of england does not own 97% of the world economy...
[11:48] <Redb3ard> exaggeration, but not off by so many orders of magnitude
[11:49] <d-ArkAngel> that's was pre WW2, when the americans fucked the ? over in exchange for their support.
[11:49] <toad_> Redb3ard: well, castrating the corporations might be a good thing, but it won't stop outsourcing. protectionism will stop outsourcing.
[11:49] <Redb3ard> toad, it would stop outsourcing
[11:49] <toad_> how?
[11:49] <Redb3ard> just not quickly enough
[11:49] <toad_> how?
[11:49] <Redb3ard> does a small business with 12 employees suddenly outsource 6 of them to india?
[11:49] <Redb3ard> no
[11:50] <Redb3ard> does a small corporation with 6000 employees outsource 5000 to india?
[11:50] <d-ArkAngel> but they might buy paper from india
[11:50] <Redb3ard> yes
[11:50] <toad_> no, but it might want to deal with an indian corp rather than an american one, which was cheaper
[11:50] <toad_> right, they'll already buy stuff from india
[11:50] <Redb3ard> make corporations less powerful than they are currently, and they wont be the preferred method of doing business anymore
[11:50] <Redb3ard> when thats the case, wont be as many to outsource things
[11:51] <toad_> are you arguing the Green Party position here that we should build tariff walls and make all our own food, paper, microchips, as locally as possible, to save on transport pollution?
[11:51] <Redb3ard> no tarriffs
[11:51] <Redb3ard> already said that
[11:51] <d-ArkAngel> The IT & communications revolutions have made it just as easy for people to work from home as from work
[11:51] <d-ArkAngel> but that home can be anywhere in the world
[11:51] <toad_> Redb3ard: then what is to stop people buying stuff from india?
[11:51] <Redb3ard> i said simply castrate corporations
[11:51] <toad_> the bottom line is if you want to keep the jobs in the US, you have to not trade with places that might compete with domestic producers
[11:52] <Redb3ard> 4 yr renewable charters, which can be axed for any, or no reason at all
[11:52] <d-ArkAngel> so a sudden burst of outsoruceing is ineviatble
[11:52] <toad_> of goods, services, or whatever
[11:52] <Redb3ard> no "virtual citizen" rights
[11:52] <Redb3ard> no ability to contribute to political campaigns
[11:52] <Redb3ard> and a few other things
[11:52] <toad_> for example, the steel industry got "outsourced" to the East a long time ago
[11:52] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) has joined #FreeNet
[11:53] <Redb3ard> what happens when a corp outsources, and 3000 of their angry laid off ex employees lobby state legislature to have the corporate charter yanked?
[11:53] <Redb3ard> corps will be a little more careful about outsourcing, at that point
[11:53] <toad_> Redb3ard: if it wasn't within the corp, it'd be between two corps
[11:53] <toad_> two smaller corps
[11:53] <toad_> corp A sells newspapers
[11:53] <toad_> this means they pay corp B to print them
[11:53] <Redb3ard> maybe 2 smaller ones are better
[11:53] <toad_> which buys paper from corp C
[11:54] <Redb3ard> i mean, tarriffs arent the answer, unions arent the answer
[11:54] <toad_> B finds they can get equally good paper cheaper from X, which is an indian paper maker
[11:54] <Redb3ard> but i think that weaker corps is
[11:54] <toad_> so what do they do? they buy from X
[11:54] <toad_> now, perhaps you can stop this by launching a "Buy US" campaign
[11:54] <toad_> and persuading B to buy from C
[11:54] <Redb3ard> ugh
[11:54] <toad_> but that's just protectionism by the back door
[11:55] <Redb3ard> im not saying my policy would reverse things
[11:55] <Redb3ard> they wont go back the way they were
[11:55] <toad_> there are many, many problems in the world
[11:55] <Redb3ard> but it would discourage more jobs being outsourced
[11:55] <toad_> maybe
[11:55] <Redb3ard> weaker corps are good all around, in any event
[11:55] <toad_> it wouldn't stop outsourcing
[11:55] <d-ArkAngel> what we need is a big solar flare to come and nock out all the com's technology. that'll stop them outsourceing call centers out there.
[11:55] <toad_> perhaps so
[11:56] <toad_> LOL
[11:56] <Redb3ard> wouldnt stop, maybe, but slow it
[11:56] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: that'd stop us too! ;<
[11:56] <d-ArkAngel> yeah but we could go back to an agricultural base, and that'd stop outsourceing.
[11:56] <toad_> right, that's the primitivist solution
[11:57] <toad_> the green party is sort of moderate primitivist
[11:57] <d-ArkAngel> after all you can't outsource cows. :-)
[11:57] <Redb3ard> whats wrong with that?
[11:57] <toad_> make everything as close to the consumer as possible, and ignore the inefficiency, because it saves on transport, and it makes lots of jobs
[11:57] <Redb3ard> id miss my computer, but theres nothing shameful about growing your own food, farming
[11:57] <toad_> lots of worthless jobs, mind you, but lots of jobs
[11:57] <Redb3ard> efficiency is something i want in an internal combustion engine
[11:57] <toad_> Redb3ard: you'd have to trade unless you only wanted to eat what you grew on your plot
[11:57] <Redb3ard> not in society
[11:58] <Redb3ard> people arent machines, they shouldnt be treated like such
[11:58] <d-ArkAngel> the benefit of the current trend is that as a society we have more free time to develop "interesting" things.
[11:58] <d-ArkAngel> like freenet
[11:58] <toad_> right
[11:58] <Redb3ard> thats the kind of shit elitists are always scrabbling to do
[11:58] <toad_> as peasant farmers, we don't have the resources to do much
[11:58] <Redb3ard> we wouldnt need freenet, if things werent bad
[11:58] <toad_> in fact, we'd almost certainly have to trade
[11:58] <d-ArkAngel> if we were all working 12 hour days milking damn cows then that'd right bugger up the development process.
[11:58] <toad_> and probably we'd collectivise the farms so we could grow more than we absolutely needed
[11:59] <Redb3ard> we need freenet, because theyre treating us like machines, trying to wrench out every last little bit of efficiency
[11:59] <d-ArkAngel> it'd be almost as bad as spending hours arguing about outsourceing of jobs when we have no ability to do anything about it.
[11:59] <toad_> subsistence farming is exactly that
[11:59] <toad_> subsistence
[11:59] <Redb3ard> we have the ability to do something about outsourcing
[11:59] <Redb3ard> just not the solution
[11:59] <toad_> we do?
[11:59] <toad_> like what?
[11:59] <Redb3ard> dunno
[12:00] <d-ArkAngel> ;-)
[12:00] <Redb3ard> but if i did know, i doubt that id find that im unable to do it
[12:00] <d-ArkAngel> I think that the main thing to live by is "it'll all work out ok in the end"
[12:00] <toad_> okay, tell me when you come up with a practical solution that you can actually have some influence over. :)
[12:00] <Redb3ard> it wont all work out in the end
[12:00] <toad_> well there are numerous evil trends
[12:00] <d-ArkAngel> as long as speech is free, and information is easy to share... nothing too bad will happen.
[12:00] <toad_> it's just that I don't think that outsourcing is one of them
[12:00] <Redb3ard> speech isnt free
[12:00] <toad_> there are plenty of others
[12:01] <toad_> most of which involve megacorps
[12:01] <Redb3ard> in the US, im not allowed to protest in front of our president
[12:01] <Redb3ard> even peacefully
[12:01] <d-ArkAngel> well assasinate him and get one you can protest in front of ;-)
[12:01] <toad_> LOL
[12:01] <toad_> shoot bush, cheney wins the election.. not a good idea!
[12:01] <Redb3ard> something as simple as a sign that says "bring our troops home" and the secret service trucks me down the road to a temporary "protesters cage"
[12:02] <Redb3ard> not enough bullets to shoot them all
[12:02] <d-ArkAngel> it'd make for an interesting election tho....
[12:02] <Redb3ard> the republican party could pull alternate candidates out of its ass faster than we could keep track of
[12:02] <d-ArkAngel> political last man standing
[12:02] <Redb3ard> each slighltly more evil than the last
[12:03] <d-ArkAngel> time to step up the plan to genocide then
[12:03] <Redb3ard> and if you think that the democrats will fix anything... then you know nothing of american politics
[12:03] <d-ArkAngel> rather than exterminateing an ethnic base we could just exterminate politicians
[12:03] <Redb3ard> on tv, they always use the "D" and "R" abbreviations next to names
[12:04] <d-ArkAngel> "Anyone caught having opinions will be shot on sight" :-)
[12:04] <Redb3ard> "D" stands for diet republicans, less calories, same great taste
[12:04] <Redb3ard> politicians?
[12:04] <Redb3ard> i wish we could
[12:04] <Redb3ard> but theyre too damn sneaky
[12:04] <d-ArkAngel> ahh and that's how you spot them...
[12:04] <Redb3ard> 100,000 of them would hide as businessmen or lawyers, or whatever, until the great purge is over
[12:04] <d-ArkAngel> "Are you a politician" "No comment" *BANG*
[12:05] <Redb3ard> and 5 years later, back with a vengeance
[12:05] <d-ArkAngel> but the thing is that they'd have learned an important lesson...
[12:05] <d-ArkAngel> stay the hell out of politics it's bad for your health
[12:06] <d-ArkAngel> how about executing politicians after they've been in service for so long?
[12:07] <d-ArkAngel> make sure that people are dedicated to the cause (not just wanting to get to write a book afterwards and make lots of money)
[12:07] <Redb3ard> robbing banks is hazardous to your health
[12:07] <Redb3ard> doesnt stop people
[12:08] <d-ArkAngel> no, but they don't mess about doing it.
[12:08] <d-ArkAngel> they tell you what they're doing wave the gun in your face and get the job done
[12:08] <Redb3ard> yes
[12:08] <Redb3ard> thats why i like them more than politicians
[12:09] <d-ArkAngel> no pansying arround waiting for the right time to burry the bad news, and trying to "spin" things in a positive light
[12:10] <d-ArkAngel> they walk right up to you, give you the bad news and then you give them all your money.
[12:10] <Redb3ard> FDIC
[12:10] <Redb3ard> theyre stealing from the government
[12:11] <toad_> <d-ArkAngel> "Anyone caught having opinions will be shot on sight" :-) - LOL!
[12:11] <d-ArkAngel> you like that little twist there? :-)
[12:12] * d-ArkAngel thinks it's time to found the MMFP Party (Mass Murderers For President)
[12:12] <toad_> heh
[12:12] <Redb3ard> heh
[12:12] <toad_> you know, there are things we CAN do to improve the world...
[12:12] <Redb3ard> thats their unofficial name as it is
[12:12] <Redb3ard> how many has bush killed?
[12:12] <d-ArkAngel> toad: finish the work on the simulator?
[12:12] <toad_> how many have been killed by each and every american president?
[12:12] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: which work?
[12:13] <toad_> more to the point, how many civilians?
[12:13] <d-ArkAngel> toad: all of it :-)
[12:13] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: the simulator isn't finished
[12:13] <toad_> and probably never will be
[12:13] <Redb3ard> theres a difference
[12:13] <Redb3ard> FDR got alot killed, but it was justifiable
[12:13] <toad_> FDR?
[12:13] <toad_> was that WWII?
[12:14] <d-ArkAngel> I thought it was a train...
[12:14] <toad_> that was pretty messy...
[12:14] <Redb3ard> if 1000 american troops had died in afghanistan hunting osama, that would be justifiable
[12:14] <Redb3ard> but instead, he picks a random arab country, attacks it instead
[12:14] <Redb3ard> frankling delano roosevelt
[12:14] <Redb3ard> dont expect you guys to know every president, but that one should be important to you, id think
[12:15] <toad_> okay, I won't tell you my opinions on iraq, except for this: Clinton's (and Bush snr's) policy of containment probably killed a MILLION iraqi civilians, over ~ 10 years. the war has killed 16,000 so far.
[12:15] <Redb3ard> toad, i could buy those numbers
[12:15] <toad_> as did the iran:iraq war in the 80s, where at times the west funded/sold arms to both sides
[12:16] <Redb3ard> hussein is a fuckwad
[12:16] <Redb3ard> i have no sympathy, and i hope he's publically executed
[12:17] <cbreak> he is not the only one.
[12:17] <Redb3ard> but, it wasnt the fight to fight, and not at that time
[12:17] <Redb3ard> and if it did have to be fought now, bush is the wrong one to do it
[12:17] <toad_> Redb3ard: like I said, if I told you what I thought about iraq, we'd be here all day
[12:17] <Redb3ard> with all the halliburton shit going on
[12:17] <toad_> and we don't have time, there's little we can do about it, and there's much we can do about other issues
[12:21] <toad_> ping
[12:21] <Redb3ard> pong
[12:21] <toad_> :)
[12:22] * toad_ just checking there isn't a network glitch :)
[12:22] <Redb3ard> freenode?
[12:22] <toad_> how's your network?
[12:22] <Redb3ard> give me a break
[12:22] <Redb3ard> my wifi card dropped me for 7 minutes the other day....
[12:22] <Redb3ard> when i got it back up, freenode still held my connection
[12:22] <Redb3ard> my network is experiencing problematic and low growth
[12:23] <Redb3ard> people with the skills to connect and invite others arent interested
[12:23] <plixed_> freenode kicks you after about 20 minutes or so
[12:23] <Redb3ard> and those interested, are slow learners
[12:23] <Redb3ard> not that they arent trying
[12:34] * toad_ attempts to update the website...
[12:34] <Redb3ard> never did use the favicon i made, did ya?
[12:34] <Redb3ard> haha
[12:34] <toad_> hmmm, how do i use it?
[12:35] <toad_> just put it in the root directory?
[12:35] <toad_> as what filename?
[12:35] <toad_> favicon.ico?
[12:35] <d-ArkAngel> <head><link rel="icon" href="http://www.blizzhackers.com/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon">
[12:35] <d-ArkAngel> that helps too
[12:36] <d-ArkAngel> (with your URL of course ;-) )
[12:36] <toad_> okay, how do i add a binary file to cvs...
[12:36] * d-ArkAngel has no idea.
[12:37] <cbreak> flag -kb
[12:38] <toad_> is there a standard filename for favicons?
[12:38] <toad_> does it pick it up from the domain or from the link rel or both?
[12:38] <cbreak> for example add in a cvswrappers "*.jpg -k 'b'"
[12:38] <d-ArkAngel> yeah, favicon.ico
[12:38] <toad_> cvs add -kb favicon.ico ?
[12:38] * d-ArkAngel stole the example from www.google.com
[12:39] <cbreak> It's a long time since I last used CVS :)
[12:39] <toad_> anyway, useful tip (the fact that it's not necessarily per domain)
[12:40] <toad_> hmmm
[12:40] <d-ArkAngel> some browsers don't work without the tag, and some browsers ignore the tag.
[12:40] <toad_> firefox doesn't recognize favicon.ico
[12:40] <toad_> even though it can read the .ico when it's local
[12:40] <toad_> apache sending the wrong mime type probably...
[12:40] <toad_> how to fix?
[12:41] <toad_> 1 HTTP/1.1 200 OK
[12:41] <toad_> 2 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:43:04 GMT
[12:41] <toad_> 3 Server: Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) PHP/4.1.2
[12:41] <toad_> 4 Last-Modified: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:41:17 GMT
[12:41] <toad_> 5 ETag: "1c6a39-23a-417fc19d"
[12:42] <toad_> 6 Accept-Ranges: bytes
[12:42] <toad_> 7 Content-Length: 570
[12:42] <toad_> 8 Connection: close
[12:42] <toad_> 9 Content-Type: text/plain
[12:42] <toad_> 10 X-Pad: avoid browser bug
[12:42] <toad_> yikes
[12:42] <toad_> text/plain !
[12:42] <cbreak> you could eddit your /etc/httpd/mime.conf
[12:42] <toad_> no, it's on sf
[12:42] <toad_> but i think we have an equivalent thingy
[12:42] <toad_> or do we?
[12:42] <toad_> hmmm
[12:42] <toad_> i ought to be off now
[12:42] <cbreak> maybe you could do something with .htaccess
[12:43] <toad_> File: favicon.ico Status: Up-to-date
[12:43] <toad_> Working revision: 1.1
[12:43] <toad_> Repository revision: 1.1 /cvsroot/freenet/website/favicon.ico,v
[12:43] <toad_> Sticky Tag: (none)
[12:43] <toad_> Sticky Date: (none)
[12:43] <toad_> Sticky Options: -kb
[12:43] <toad_> okay, that's binary, right?
[12:44] <cbreak> it looks like binary for me :)
[12:44] <plixed_> you can force the mime type for a specific file within a .htaccess usually
[12:45] <d-ArkAngel> you could put
[12:45] <d-ArkAngel> AddType image/x-icon .ico
[12:45] <d-ArkAngel> in the .htaccess
[12:45] <toad_> ok
[12:45] <toad_> where would the config file be?
[12:45] <toad_> no .htaccess in ~freenet/htdocs/
[12:46] <d-ArkAngel> just make one, it's just a text document...
[12:46] <plixed_> .htaccess files apply to the dir they are in, i think child dirs inherit the configs
[12:47] <d-ArkAngel> yeah, and they all inherit from the master.
[12:47] <d-ArkAngel> but there's no problem with them inheriting that a .ico file has a image/x-icon mime type...
[12:47] <toad_> yay, we have a favicon
[12:47] <toad_> bbl
[12:48] <d-ArkAngel> c ya
[12:48] * plixed_ (~plixed@c159073.adsl.hansenet.de) Quit ("Verlassend")
[13:08] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[13:09] * d-ArkAngel (~Rob@213-131-104-86.onyx.net) Quit (Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer))
[13:10] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) has joined #freenet
[13:16] * mnencia (~mnencia@150.217.34.3) has joined #freenet
[13:16] * mnencia (~mnencia@150.217.34.3) has left #freenet
[13:41] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) Quit (Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer))
[13:41] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) has joined #FreeNet
[13:50] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[13:53] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) has joined #freenet
[14:03] * jabawok_w (~jabawok_w@203-59-59-49.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[14:04] * jabawok_w (~jabawok_w@203-59-59-49.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #freenet
[14:09] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@170.252.64.1) has joined #freenet
[14:09] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@170.252.64.1) has left #freenet
[14:14] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[14:27] * Toast (~Toast@82-34-170-133.cable.ubr03.maid.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[14:44] * jabawok_w (~jabawok_w@203-59-59-49.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:45] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aba43.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[14:54] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) Quit ("Client exiting")
[15:26] <spaetz_> toad_: does the simulator run under kaffe? kaffe uses the native gmp library. So it might actually be faster than the blackdown jre which doesn't use jbigi
[15:30] <cbreak> afaik the simulator uses fast estimators, which don't use big integers.
[15:31] <cbreak> also, freenet can use native big integer support when built in freenet-ext.jar.
[15:31] <spaetz_> cbreak: the simulator.log complains that no libjbigi is appropriate for my amd64
[15:31] <spaetz_> it warns about using a pure java implementation
[15:32] <cbreak> hmm... maybe your platform is not one of the supported ones...
[15:32] <spaetz_> I guess one would just need to write some processor identification code
[15:33] <spaetz_> the gmp lib supports amd64 so it *should* work
[15:33] <spaetz_> Anyway, I'm away for a while. later...
[15:33] <cbreak> bye
[15:33] * spaetz_ is now known as spaetzAway
[15:56] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) has joined #FreeNet
[15:59] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ()
[16:00] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[16:00] * sanity (~ian@81-178-109-149.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:05] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs68206255-46.houston.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[16:09] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-245-123.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[16:39] * spaetzAway (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit ("Verlassend")
[16:43] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:45] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) has joined #freenet
[17:34] * Hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:41] * Hory (~Miranda@82.76.81.56) Quit (No route to host)
[17:45] * jaklite (auderssen@201.130.169.61) has joined #freenet
[17:45] * jaklite (auderssen@201.130.169.61) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:52] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-245-123.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[17:59] * FallingBuzzard (~srademach@207.152.112.129) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:04] * lsrkgjklnr (JustMe_@cs68206255-46.houston.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[18:05] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs68206255-46.houston.rr.com) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[18:05] * lsrkgjklnr is now known as JustMe_
[18:09] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) Quit ("Client exiting")
[18:24] * cbreak (~cbreak@dhcp-32-094.via-eth.ch) Quit ("leaving")
[18:42] * plixed (~plixed@pD9E25EF1.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[18:44] * Toast (~Toast@82-34-170-133.cable.ubr03.maid.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 232 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:52] * bender1 (~postal@adsl-d173.213-81-199.telecom.sk) has joined #freenet
[18:53] * bender1 (~postal@adsl-d173.213-81-199.telecom.sk) has left #freenet
[19:01] * plixed_ (~plixed@pD955129C.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[19:07] * plixed (~plixed@pD9E25EF1.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[19:09] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-245-123.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[19:13] * goatee (~goatee@ip216-239-88-4.vif.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[19:48] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-245-123.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[20:06] * goatee (~goatee@ip216-239-89-234.vif.net) has joined #freenet
[20:07] * goatee_ (~goatee@ip216-239-89-234.vif.net) has joined #freenet
[20:07] * goatee (~goatee@ip216-239-89-234.vif.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[20:14] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:23] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-0-219.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:31] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@195.157.199.85) has joined #freenet
[20:31] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@195.157.199.85) has left #freenet
[20:42] * toad_ wonders whether or not to quote a seriously offtopic story
[20:42] <toad_> (news story)
[20:42] <toad_> with the potential to start a seriously offtopic flame war
[20:50] <toad_> the simulator does run on kaffe
[20:57] <toad_> SSK@1QMRixJVfL0LgQiou90NyAtag7YPAgM,MeeWHGZ2fA8LTiqAi3za8w/gems//
[20:57] <toad_> appears to actually be original to freenet
[21:07] * plixed (~plixed@p50823D29.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[21:09] <toad_> hi plixed
[21:10] <plixed> hi toad_ :)
[21:10] * toad_ hmmz
[21:10] <toad_> mostly can't get to the diebold files
[21:10] <toad_> on freenet
[21:11] <toad_> does FUQID just keep hammering the same files forever, if you let it?
[21:11] <toad_> if so, and it seems likely, that's a great reason for per node fts...
[21:12] <plixed> you can configure fuqid to keep on hammering forever
[21:12] <toad_> what's the default?
[21:13] <plixed> good question ;)
[21:14] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) has joined #freenet
[21:14] <toad_> hi lostlogic
[21:14] <lostlogic> hey, dude
[21:14] <lostlogic> what's up?
[21:14] <lostlogic> how's new stable?
[21:15] <toad_> not great
[21:15] <lostlogic> :-(
[21:15] <toad_> not terrible though
[21:15] <toad_> well
[21:15] <toad_> i dunno
[21:16] <toad_> lostlogic: SSK@1QMRixJVfL0LgQiou90NyAtag7YPAgM,MeeWHGZ2fA8LTiqAi3za8w/gems// - original content, apparently, judging by a brief googling
[21:17] <lostlogic> Hmm... so you're saying "lostlogic, put your node back, you pansy"
[21:17] <toad_> back where?
[21:17] <lostlogic> it's down
[21:17] <toad_> awwww
[21:17] <plixed> the default behaviour of fuqid 1.4 is to start up to 10 threads and retry up to 4 times, then wait for 10 mins and start the download again
[21:18] <lostlogic> I need to get another connection to serve on or something -- the latency introduced by running freenet kills my DNS, mail and web performance :-(
[21:18] <toad_> that's odd
[21:18] <toad_> why can't you just use the bandwidth limits?
[21:19] <lostlogic> toad_: always increases my latency... *fires it back up for a few days to see hwo it goes* it might be better now that I've beefed up the system it runs on actually
[21:20] <plixed> the election rig loads extremly fast
[21:20] <toad_> Found the List Of Ineligible Voters on BitTorrent, no idea how accurate it is. According to the PDF details it was a word document last saved by a user called dlarson with a date of 02/07/2004.
[21:20] <toad_> hmmm
[21:21] <toad_> considering the election was in 2000, that seems like it might be a fake :)
[21:21] <lostlogic> chuckle
[21:21] * plixed_ (~plixed@pD955129C.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
[21:25] * Usurp (syl@trudaine-8-82-230-34-86.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ("Client exiting")
[21:25] * toad_ should go to bed...
[21:29] <plixed> some good news, my node is back since a few hours, i even managed to recover the 32g datastore, the node moved from XP to linux
[21:30] <toad_> hehe
[21:30] <toad_> welcome back to the underworld
[21:30] * lostlogic forgot to update his node before turning it on... *twiddles*
[21:31] <toad_> lostlogic: both the jar and the seednodes
[21:31] <lostlogic> ya
[21:31] <toad_> and maybe the ext.jar too.. how long has it been down?
[21:31] <toad_> and set a sensible bandwidth limit
[21:31] <lostlogic> I've got the latest ext-jar (with the more native stuff)
[21:31] <lostlogic> define sensible
[21:32] <toad_> depends on your connection
[21:32] <toad_> half the theoretical bandwidth of your conn, at most, upstream
[21:32] <lostlogic> what % do you think of theoretical peak upstream
[21:32] <lostlogic> ok
[21:32] <lostlogic> so on a 786kbps, that'd be 45000ish?
[21:32] <toad_> if that works well you might think about increasing it
[21:32] <toad_> woah
[21:32] <toad_> try it
[21:33] <toad_> no month limits?
[21:33] <lostlogic> yeah, no month limits
[21:33] <lostlogic> damn, what has every file in CVS changed since I last updated?
[21:34] <plixed> lostlogic: you have 786 kbps upstream?
[21:34] <lostlogic> ja
[21:34] <lostlogic> it's not nearly enough ;-)
[21:35] <lostlogic> node go on.
[21:35] <lostlogic> with two processors to play on now :-D
[21:37] <plixed> freenet is not cpu bound, it only eats up upstream bandwidth (my observation with <500kbs up)
[21:37] <toad_> depends how much bw you have
[21:38] <lostlogic> just jvm crashed during startup
[21:38] <toad_> iakin's nodes used to be cpu bound
[21:38] <toad_> but he had 10Mbps uplink
[21:38] <lostlogic> lol mine was back when I had 10Mbps too :)
[21:38] <toad_> and fixed size files will make it use more cpu for routing
[21:39] <lostlogic> toad_: any reports of jvm crashes during startup?
[21:39] <toad_> bbl zzz
[21:39] <plixed> it uses about 10% of an 1.4 mhz athlon
[21:39] <plixed> s/mhz/ghz/
[21:39] <toad_> 1.4 ghz ;)
[21:40] <lostlogic> plixed: it uses a lot ram, and it has spikes at times... on my 1800+ it would cause unacceptable desktop performance at times
[21:41] <plixed> yes, it needs ram, a lot of it ;)
[21:48] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-0-219.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[22:33] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) Quit ("Going to the moon")
[22:36] * plixed_ (~plixed@p50823D29.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[22:40] * plixed_ (~plixed@p50823D29.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:44] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) has joined #freenet
[22:47] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:59] * plixed (~plixed@p50823D29.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
[23:02] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) has joined #freenet
[23:02] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[23:02] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) has joined #freenet
[23:04] * goatee_ is now known as goatee
[23:32] * KenMan (~dogzilla@pcp403292pcs.mntcrm01.md.comcast.net) has joined #freenet
[23:39] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-0-219.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[23:50] <lostlogic> KenMan: wave
[23:56] * KenMan (~dogzilla@pcp403292pcs.mntcrm01.md.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.