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[3:16] <KenMan> tessier wasn't due to visit us for at least another month. Hmmm....
[3:17] <tessier> Yeah, I'm early.
[3:17] <KenMan> I'll say. Nothing has changed, from your perspective. Stop back about a week before turkey day.
[3:18] <tessier> It may be another month before I try freenet again though. Want to try the new code with the smaller max blocksize
[3:18] <KenMan> It may be 2 months before I give FreeNet much respect. Want to see the system begin to work.
[3:18] <tessier> Indeed
[3:19] <KenMan> there are some fundamental (yet complex) problems, but I don't know how to get toad to respect them as significant.
[3:20] <KenMan> I am still very disappointed with his understanding re: rate limiting.
[3:21] <KenMan> even if NGR was near perfect (we know it is not) , rate limiting would prevent it from having enough effect.
[3:25] <tessier> I think they are on the right track with reducing the max block size
[3:25] <KenMan> (stable) request success ratio for past 24 hours is 3.5% . That is an improvement (from 1-2%) , but not enough of one.
[3:25] <tessier> It should help ngr learn a lot faster if they can increase the number of completed transactions
[3:25] <KenMan> as everyone has already said, "so long as the overhead doesnt kill productivity" ...
[3:26] <tessier> I don't see how it could get any worse.
[3:26] <tessier> If ngr gets better the overhead should drastically decrease.
[3:26] <KenMan> "don't see how it could get any worse" ?! oh, you have been away far TOO long !!!
[3:27] <tessier> Is freenet actually performing halfway decently now?
[3:27] <KenMan> no, the fixed overhead of transferring a single block. That's what I mean. Ratio of content:protocolDetails
[3:28] <tessier> Right. But right now so much cpu and bandwidth gets wasted in poor routing decisions. Or at least it used to.
[3:29] <KenMan> Yeah, it is roughly the same success rate, as I showed a minute ago :(
[3:30] <KenMan> CPU use so far has not left the atmosphere ;)
[3:30] <KenMan> Toad wants to produce more code, Ian wants to destruct something, ANYTHING, to reduce.
[3:35] <KenMan> It is hard to quantify effectiveness, because one person saying "man, things are SO much better" carries a lot of weight. I am content to use either successPercent or "total success volume" as a health indicator.
[3:37] <KenMan> success volume has gone down. Success% has risen because total query volume has fallen (relative to a few months ago). So compute what you will from that.
[3:37] <KenMan> People are reporting clear and obvious specialization. But to date, no one has confirmed that it is sticking around on their node.
[3:39] <KenMan> I have pretty clear spec right now. And similar to what I saw over 12 hours ago. Must keep an eye on it!
[3:49] <tessier> I really think they need to throw out all of the anonymizing and crypto etc. and just get the basic routing going.
[3:49] <tessier> Just built a bittorrent replacement as a first step.
[3:49] <tessier> Everything else is really confusing things.
[3:50] * KenMan just realized how to build a 'request spec over time' graphic. More barcodes on the way!!
[3:51] <KenMan> You must accept that toad will never take a step backwards, in any way, shape or form.
[3:51] <tessier> Indeed. And that means no steps forwards too.
[3:52] <KenMan> yes, a lot of big footprints, for sure.
[3:52] <KenMan> but if you never remove the foot, you'll never see the prints...
[3:57] <tessier> It's a generally accepted principle of software engineering that you build the system a little bit at a time, test it, and then build the next bit.
[3:57] <tessier> The freenet team seems to have other ideas.
[3:58] <tessier> wireless is nice
[3:58] <tessier> It means I can sit on the toilet and take a dump and check on the state of freenet all at the same time.
[4:01] <KenMan> and you don't really have competing smells, either
[4:03] <KenMan> I don't think toad has ever been in a 'classic' engineering environment. Thus he chooses what principles to accept , generally.
[4:04] <mikeDOTd> doesn't queueing remove rate-limitings negative influence on NGr?
[4:04] <KenMan> And testing, well... that is where I am most disappointed by his performance. But, overall I am most grateful for toad's efforts.
[4:05] <KenMan> queueing doesn't fully counter the problem. It helps, but not nearly enough. That's one man's opinion.
[4:06] <KenMan> queueing is working against the effects of mRI. All you need to do is compare the average queueing-time (10s) to the average mRI time (100+s), and you will see the problem.
[4:07] <KenMan> the 10s is supposed to allow 'more' nodes to become available than if no queueing were performed.
[4:09] <KenMan> With 100 routes, all giving 100s mRI (an unlikely example), each route has a ~10% chance of becoming available in the 'next' 10s - it adds perhaps 10 extra routes to the pool of choices.
[4:10] <KenMan> But since ALL requests are queued, they are still competing on /equal/ grounds, and should occupy the same number/amount of routing slots.
[4:11] <KenMan> The largest benefit from queueing is to avoid "0 routes available" at the time a request is received (routable).
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[4:13] <KenMan> Yet, strangely, now that queueing is in place - my node has sent out 87521 requests, and received 47929 QRs(RNFs). The rest must be timeouts.
[4:14] <KenMan> unfortunately, i cannot compare this ratio to pre-queueing...
[4:16] <KenMan> i had about 1150 "data found"s ... the rest are timeouts.
[4:17] <KenMan> you see, success rates are deceptive, because they do not account for the multiple requests that go out for each incoming request.
[4:17] <KenMan> So the true success rate is more like 1150/87521 = 1.3% - a far cry from the 3.5% reported in the stats.
[4:18] <KenMan> It is all a matter of perspective, i suppose.
[4:20] <KenMan> queueing has allowed the node to increase its utilization of the capacity provided by the routes. That's about it.
[4:21] <KenMan> oops, I filled my screen without anyone else chatting. Time to go to sleep! ;)
[4:25] <KenMan> oh, one last datapoint - pre-queueing(5091), my node instantly rejected 9777 of 35942 incoming requests due to "0 routes available"
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[4:26] <KenMan> i can't offer a number to compare to today, but I expect queueing probably cut it down 'significantly'
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[5:55] <Usurp> hi all
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[8:19] <ejhuff> sanity: good free curve fit package is in gnuplot. Originally written by a guy who had never heard of the gnu project, it was a pun on new plot. IIRC gnu has adopted it. It does nice scientific graphs but has a clunky interface reminds me of VMS. I suppose there are better things now, I haven't looked recently. It does let you specify a standard deviation separately for each datapoint in the curve fit, and if you do so and actually know the sta
[8:19] <ejhuff> around 1.0 for a good fit...
[8:20] <sanity> ejhuff: thanks for the tip, i have used Gnuplot before, but I didn't know it did curve fitting
[8:21] <sanity> bbiab - lunch
[8:21] <ejhuff> It was added c. 1995
[8:22] <ejhuff> The gnuplot help pages on the curve fit explain what is going on nicely regarding chi^2 as I recall.
[8:32] <ejhuff> ATM my stable node has 8% success on slot d (146/1811) and 52% success on slot d2 (54/104). Don't know if it will continue... count/mean on successful requests detail is 14 for slot f2.
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[9:30] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> Why would my node say: "CANNOT RENAME NODE FILE node-temp TO node"?
[9:34] <cbreak> I think the node wants to change his node file. to do that, he writes the new version and tries to move it in place of the old one.
[9:34] <cbreak> And somehow this fails sometimes :)
[9:37] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> cbreak: I was hoping for some more informative answer, but ok. You know where this temp file should be located? Cant find it... not that i know of anything good to do with it if i find it.
[9:39] <cbreak> A few weeks ago, they fixed one of the reasons for this problem, but obviously not all...
[9:41] <i2p_iip> <Sonax> /me hopes it dosn't happen to much/do to much damage, and goes on with his buisness...
[9:43] <cbreak> I read the problem relates with two different threads trying to write at the same time... And one thread might succeed :)
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[10:21] <cbreak> hmm... fun: the most sucessfull bucket in my "Histogram of successfully requested keys" is d2.
[10:22] <cbreak> 24 keys, in contrast to the second most successfull bucket with 4 keys...
[10:22] <cbreak> someone realy is interested in d2 keys :)
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[13:50] <d-ArkAngel> Hi all
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[14:30] <mooofborg> i'm new to freenet and i'm wondering what the %bar on the main freenet interface means?
[14:31] <cbreak> the Load bar?
[14:31] <mooofborg> yeah
[14:32] <greycat> I think it's hooked into a random number generator :)
[14:32] <cbreak> It's a hint to the nodes load.
[14:32] <mooofborg> mines at 168% and is that good or bad
[14:32] <cbreak> on http://localhost:8888/servlet/nodeinfo/performance/general you will find a more detailed list of components to the load value.
[14:32] <greycat> there's more detailed load breakdown on http://127.0.0.1:8888/servlet/nodestatus/
[14:33] <mooofborg> ok thx
[14:33] <greycat> ah, that one too.
[14:33] <cbreak> Shortly after startup, a nodes load is high, because it has to open a lot of connections.
[14:33] <greycat> wow, my node has survived 7 hours.
[14:33] <cbreak> (This is quite crypto heavy)
[14:34] <cbreak> 8.1 Hour :P
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[14:35] <cbreak> anyone else here on unstable?
[14:35] * greycat remembers the good old days when he could run a node for months at a time without his connection coming apart
[14:35] <mooofborg> yeah i was also wondering if i should run that
[14:35] <cbreak> greycat: Why can't you let your node run constantly?
[14:35] <greycat> cbreak: I *try*, but then when my internet connection stops responding I have to kill it.
[14:36] <cbreak> It is advised to let your node run as regularly as possible.
[14:36] <cbreak> greycat: Mine never did. Sure it is freenet and not something else?
[14:37] <greycat> I've been over this half a dozen times with various people in this and other channels, and nobody has a *clue* what's causing it.
[14:37] <cbreak> does it affect other programs, like web browsers?
[14:37] <greycat> Lowering the max connections freenet can make from 200 to 32 helped. Didn't fully solve it; I still have to run a watchdog script to kill the node when it can't ping yahoo any more -- but it's better.
[14:37] <greycat> It affects **everything**.
[14:38] <greycat> DNS lookups stop working, which is what actually causes the "ping -c 1 www.yahoo.com" to fail.
[14:38] <cbreak> so it goes away after freenet is killed? Realy sounds strange...
[14:38] <greycat> (akadns set the TTL on that RR to 60 seconds, so it has to look it up every time)
[14:38] <cbreak> you could ping the IP?
[14:39] <greycat> no, everything dies.
[14:39] * greycat has to go, sorry...
[14:39] <cbreak> Bye...
[14:39] <cbreak> your problem sounds interesting, but I doubt I could help you ...
[14:40] <i2p_iip> <salgo> the bandwidth limiter in freenet is not performing well, freenet can sometimes flood your output bandwidth for a short time and then the DNS request can not get through
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[14:40] <d-ArkAngel> it did it to me a little on a low spec box, mine was because the DNS cache server on the same box as the freenet node stopped responding tho.
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[14:41] <d-ArkAngel> but a combination of lowering input and output limits, allong with dissableing the native BigInt code seems to have fixed it on that box.
[14:42] <i2p_iip> <salgo> when the outgoing queue on the router/dsl-modem is saturated random packets get dropped
[14:42] <cbreak> keeping freenet alive seems to be quite black magic stuff... :)
[14:44] <d-ArkAngel> mines on a little mini-itx box, so it's kinda a slow system :-)
[14:56] <cbreak> do you have receiving connections listed on the connections page?
[14:56] <cbreak> mine lists a lot of connections, but the pictures only show sending transfers...
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[15:41] <dli_> a simple script in linux to set up firewall for freenet?
[15:42] <greycat> if the linux box *is* the firewall, there's nothing to set up...
[15:42] <greycat> if it's not, then it won't be a "simple script".
[15:43] <dli_> greycat :( I use bastille
[15:46] <cbreak> how does a linux fw work?
[15:49] <KenMan> cbreak: usually very well, if it is configured properly
[15:50] <cbreak> here i use the programm ipfw to set up rules, which are matched against all packets. (Mac OS / BSD)
[15:50] <cbreak> -> Port Based, and simple Protocoll Based Rules.
[15:51] <dli_> cbreak: mine?
[15:51] <cbreak> I use the following setup for freenet: "ipfw add 2010 allow tcp from any to any 20131-20132 in via en0"; "ipfw add 2010 allow tcp from any 20131-20132 to any out via en0"
[15:51] <dli_> cbreak: similar, I use Bastille to set it. :( now, I don't know how to enable freenet
[15:53] <dli_> cbreak: so, from 20131-20132 -> 2010, all tcp?
[15:53] <cbreak> 2010 is the rule number, 20131 is my freenet port range.
[15:53] <cbreak> your freenet node most likely has a different FNP.
[15:53] <dli_> cbreak: the default is 8888, I think
[15:54] <cbreak> no.
[15:54] <cbreak> that is the Freenet Client Port
[15:54] <cbreak> for fproxy I mean
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[15:54] <KenMan> grep listenPort freenet.conf
[15:54] <cbreak> 8888 and 8481 is only for local access.
[15:54] <dli_> cbreak: what's rule number?
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[15:55] <cbreak> to order the rules the firewall has. Rules are checked against sequencialy.
[15:55] <cbreak> Don't know if your FW also works like that...
[15:56] <dli_> cbreak too much for me :(( linux uses iptables
[15:56] <cbreak> In theory all you have to do is allow outgoing connections from your freenet node port and ingoing ones to it.
[15:57] <dli_> there should be a standard iptables script for a default node
[15:57] <cbreak> would not work, since the listenPort= is random.
[15:58] <dli_> cbreak: this is not nice, if I run my firewall, I couldn't run freenet :(
[16:07] <cbreak> after reading a bit on iptables: I have only slight clues how it is suposed to work.
[16:09] <dli_> cbreak: how to?
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[16:10] <cbreak> http://oceanpark.com/notes/firewall_example.html
[16:10] <dli_> cbreak: bastille is a tool to help setting up iptables without knowing much
[16:10] <cbreak> Since I don't use Linux I can't test it, but the following might work:
[16:11] <dli_> cbreak: I can test :)
[16:11] <cbreak> iptables -A INPUT -p tcp -s 0/0 -d 0/0 --destination-port <listenPort> -j ACCEPT
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[16:12] <dli_> cbreak: I suppose -s0/0 can be left out.
[16:12] <cbreak> maybe. It was in the examples.
[16:12] <cbreak> Do you allow all outgoing conns?
[16:13] <dli_> iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport ???
[16:13] <dli_> cbreak: I can
[16:13] <dli_> cbreak: the problem is still incomming
[16:14] <cbreak> the rule I gave you is suposed to allow incomming.
[16:14] <cbreak> -dport is an alias to --destination-por
[16:14] <cbreak> t
[16:15] <dli_> cbreak: I don't know the port number
[16:15] <cbreak> it is inside your freenet.conf
[16:15] <cbreak> try "grep listenPort freenet.conf".
[16:15] <cbreak> to list it fast.
[16:15] <dli_> cbreak: 17936
[16:16] <dli_> iptables -i eth0 -I INPUT -p tcp --dport 17936 -j ACCEPT
[16:16] <dli_> cbreak: do I need to add rule number 2010, like you do?
[16:16] <cbreak> I would use -A not -I
[16:16] <cbreak> the rule number is up to you.
[16:17] <cbreak> If you use -A you don't have to specify one I think.
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[16:17] <cbreak> the man page is http://www.linuxguruz.com/iptables/howto/maniptables.html if you want to read it.
[16:18] <dli_> cbreak: okay:) I will work out with the freenet docs
[16:18] <cbreak> feel free to ask, maybe someone even can help you :)
[16:19] <cbreak> (and tell me if it worked)
[16:19] <cbreak> oh, nice...
[16:20] <cbreak> linux's fw seems to be able to limit the traffic
[16:20] <cbreak> nice++, you can even match against uid and gid...
[16:21] <dli_> cbreak: for incomming? can I do that
[16:22] <cbreak> I doubt it works for incomming, but the flag is documented in the man page.
[16:22] <cbreak> the owner will obviously only be available for localy generated packets... BW Limiting might work.
[16:24] <dli_> cbreak: strange, I couldn't connect to localhost:8888
[16:24] <cbreak> with freenet running?
[16:25] <dli_> cbreak: iptables problem
[16:25] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[16:25] <dli_> cbreak: freenet-0.5.2.1-r8 # iptables -p tcp --dport 8888 -j ACCEPT
[16:25] <dli_> iptables v1.2.11: no command specified
[16:25] <cbreak> your node is running localy?
[16:25] <dli_> cbreak: yes
[16:26] <dli_> cbreak: freenet-0.5.2.1-r8 # iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 8888 -j ACCEPT
[16:26] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[16:26] <cbreak> my fw has a rule to allow all lopback traffic.
[16:27] <cbreak> in iptables this might be "iptables -A INPUT -i lo0 -j ACCEPT"
[16:27] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@host217-37-104-211.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #freenet
[16:28] <cbreak> (Hey, no one here linux user?)
[16:28] <dli_> :)
[16:32] <dli_> cbreak: it works
[16:32] <cbreak> good :)
[16:33] <dli_> iptables -A OUTPUT -m owner --uid-owner freenet -j DROP
[16:33] <dli_> iptables -A OUTPUT -d localhost -p tcp --dport 8888 -m owner --uid-owner freenet -j ACCEPT
[16:33] <dli_> iptables -A OUTPUT -d localhost -p tcp --dport 8481 -m owner --uid-owner freenet -j ACCEPT
[16:33] <dli_> iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 17936 -j ACCEPT
[16:35] * spaetz (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #freenet
[16:35] <dli_> cbreak: the first three are from the freenet readme, wonder why they didn't mention the last one :(
[16:36] <Iakin> [04:53] <KenMan> heh, how about Iakin ? is he still around, or busy working ??
[16:36] <Iakin> I am... somewhat lagged though.
[16:39] * cbreak (~cbreak@dhcp-32-094.via-eth.ch) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[16:39] * cbreak (~cbreak@dhcp-32-094.via-eth.ch) has joined #freenet
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[16:45] * mooofborg (Mooofborg@alb-24-194-155-45.nycap.rr.com) Quit ("Alias!")
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[17:19] <Iakin> [01:51] <d-ArkAngel> "package javax.servlet.http does not exist"
[17:19] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:19] <Iakin> Its in freenet-ext.jar
[17:19] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[17:23] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:24] <d-ArkAngel> yeah I've managed to get that one sorted, but it's complaining about Head.java and Tail.java (or actually the classes) not being found now.
[17:24] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:25] * Usurp_ is back (gone 10:22:43)
[17:26] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[17:26] <d-ArkAngel> and a couple of complaints about ThrottledAsyncEntropyYarrow (something about expecting a "(" tho it's aparently needed in the middle of a method name.... which confuses me.
[17:27] * Usurp_ is now known as Usurp
[17:27] * spaetz (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit ("Leaving")
[17:29] <Iakin> d-ArkAngel, they should be in freenet.diagnostics I think
[17:30] <d-ArkAngel> hmm, well they seem to be missing from my cvs tree.... /me looks at the online version
[17:32] <d-ArkAngel> well I can't see them in either my copy from cvs, or in the web cvs in the diagnostics dir.
[17:34] <cbreak> My Open Connections Page only shows the pictures for connections without or with outgoing transfers.
[17:35] <cbreak> Recieving Transfers are not mentioned, but the pictures are shown in the legend.
[17:35] <Iakin> Tail and Head are decalred in EventDequeue
[17:35] <Iakin> They are inner interfaces
[17:36] * greycat (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) Quit ("Lick Bush in '04")
[17:36] <Usurp> anyone knows why we (or I) get tons of "Consecutive same winner:" errors ?
[17:36] <i2p_iip> <salgo> toad knows about these error but can't reproduce it
[17:37] <Usurp> k then
[17:37] <d-ArkAngel> I wonder why it can't find those interfaces....
[17:38] <d-ArkAngel> Are you able to compile freenet from soruce?
[17:39] <i2p_iip> <salgo> i get this error too, but it's not a big problem like the "too high probability" thing was in 5095
[17:40] <cbreak> Hmm... most I have in the logs are IllegalStateExceptions
[17:41] <Usurp> could the "consecutive same winner" make crash java ?
[17:41] <Iakin> d-ArkAnge, I always compiles from source
[17:42] <Iakin> But I do it using eclipse's builtin compiler
[17:42] <i2p_iip> <salgo> not til know, my node is up with 5096 for 2 days 22 hours and has pushed about 9 gb data around
[17:42] <d-ArkAngel> does eclipse support x86_64 yet?
[17:43] <cbreak> isn't eclipse in java? Should run everywhere.
[17:43] <d-ArkAngel> is it free to download?
[17:43] <Iakin> yup
[17:44] <Iakin> eclipse.org
[17:44] <d-ArkAngel> is that the standard used by the freenet developers then?
[17:44] * d-ArkAngel heads over and sets it downloading.
[17:45] * KenMan (~dogzilla@pcp403292pcs.mntcrm01.md.comcast.net) has joined #freenet
[17:47] <Iakin> d: Yup.. it is
[17:49] * FallingBuzzar1 (~srademach@207.152.112.129) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[17:49] * FallingBuzzar1 (~srademach@207.152.112.129) has joined #freenet
[17:50] <d-ArkAngel> wow the mirror.ac.uk mirror of eclipse is really messed up! lucky this tiscali.dk one seems to work
[17:55] * FallingBuzzar1 (~srademach@207.152.112.129) has left #freenet
[17:57] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) Quit (""Installation rights"... HAHA :')")
[18:04] * tyesinclair (~tyesincla@host217-37-104-211.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[18:19] * sirmis (~sirmis@213-216-251-77-Karjasilta-TR10.suomi.net) has joined #freenet
[18:19] * sirmis (~sirmis@213-216-251-77-Karjasilta-TR10.suomi.net) has left #freenet
[18:20] * toad_ (toad@82-32-16-91.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[18:43] * d-ArkAngel start downloading eclipse from a different mirror in the vague hope that it'll be faster.
[18:44] <d-ArkAngel> this had bloody well let me compile freenet :-)
[18:44] <Usurp> what 'bout yafi ?
[18:46] <d-ArkAngel> yafi?
[18:46] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aau209.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:46] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) Quit ("Client exiting")
[18:49] <d-ArkAngel> w00t 70k/s Much better!
[18:49] <d-ArkAngel> who knows in a month I might even get this simulator compiled ;-)
[18:55] * Sugadude (~Sugadude@207-234-129-95.ptr.primarydns.com) has joined #freenet
[18:55] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:56] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[18:56] <d-ArkAngel> The Link labled Spread Freenet on my node links to http://127.0.0.1:8891/ even tho I'm accessing the node via a none local IP address, is this something that needs changeing in a config file? or is that a bug?
[18:57] <cbreak> does your node autodetect its IP?
[18:57] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:57] <cbreak> And is your IP public?
[18:57] <d-ArkAngel> it's a local network IP address.
[18:57] <d-ArkAngel> it's 192.168.x.x
[18:58] <d-ArkAngel> the other links all guess the location of the node just fine, but this one still looks to locahost.
[18:58] <d-ArkAngel> I guess because it's on a different port number (sound reasonable?)
[18:58] <cbreak> so your node will not be able to autodetect the IP. I asume you didn't configure an ip?
[18:58] <cbreak> my address points to the public ip of my node.
[18:59] <d-ArkAngel> I'm using a DNS name, could that be it?
[18:59] <d-ArkAngel> or do I need to setup something extra in my config to enable that? (since visiting the node by IP address I get just the word "Error")
[18:59] <cbreak> when I had a configured dyndns, the href pointed to the dns:8891
[19:00] <d-ArkAngel> wonder why mines not....
[19:00] <d-ArkAngel> is there more than one place to put it in?
[19:01] <cbreak> ipAddress=dyndns
[19:01] <d-ArkAngel> yup, it's my first line.
[19:02] <d-ArkAngel> ok that's weird. it seems I'm not on the allowedhosts list....
[19:02] <d-ArkAngel> so how come I can access the content on the node I wonder....
[19:02] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[19:02] <i2p_iip> <salgo> then the node should detect your public ip and display it in the "environment" page
[19:03] <cbreak> he won't be able to access the distribution servlet on the publich IP unless he specificaly forwarded it.
[19:04] <d-ArkAngel> well it's got the Ip as Addresses Detected by the Network
[19:04] <d-ArkAngel> and the server IP is right in Transports as the local IP address.
[19:05] <d-ArkAngel> so I can't see why it would be putting 127.0.0.1 as the link address....
[19:05] <d-ArkAngel> unless for some reason it's falling back on that address.
[19:08] <d-ArkAngel> in mainport.allowHosts can I use 192.168.1.* to allow all my local machines access to the node?
[19:09] <i2p_iip> <salgo> yes, you can make the mainport and the fcp port accessible for the lan
[19:09] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[19:09] <cbreak> maybe as 192.168.1.0/24
[19:10] <cbreak> don't forgett to add localhost to the list too.
[19:10] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[19:10] <d-ArkAngel> yeah I'll leave that in.
[19:11] <d-ArkAngel> hmm, with .0/24 it's not showing me the love....
[19:12] <i2p_iip> <salgo> well, i put in all ips i needed, not a whole network...
[19:12] <d-ArkAngel> I'll leave it settle a moment, it's hardly the fastsest at starting up any more. maybe it'll start working in a momnt.
[19:13] <cbreak> is something in the log regarding parsing errors?
[19:13] <d-ArkAngel> The problem is I've god DHCP setup because I have a few hardwired machines, and there are a couple of wireless laptops that need to hook in.
[19:13] <d-ArkAngel> I'll look
[19:13] * xolo (1000@xoder.rh.rit.edu) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[19:13] <cbreak> think about dns or an ssh tunnel :)
[19:14] <d-ArkAngel> think about a script to generate a list of all the possible IP's as a string so I can paste them into the config file more like :-)
[19:15] <d-ArkAngel> oh wait it's responding now.
[19:15] <d-ArkAngel> just takes a couple of min to warm up. (like my old ass TV :-) )
[19:17] <d-ArkAngel> Still shows that link as 127.0.0.1 tho. and deliberatly going to port 8891 on the node just gives me the word "Error"
[19:18] <cbreak> is ssh tunneling possible?
[19:18] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[19:18] <d-ArkAngel> sure, but it seems un-necisary dosn't it?
[19:18] <cbreak> quote from the page "This page cannot be accessed from other computers on the Internet"
[19:19] <cbreak> maybe it doesn't follow the same rules.
[19:19] <cbreak> as fproxy.
[19:19] <d-ArkAngel> strange, I would have thought that page would have been accessable based on the same rules as the node content.
[19:19] <i2p_iip> <salgo> try to remove the "%" from the line with "distribution.allowedHosts=*" in the config
[19:20] <d-ArkAngel> well lynx on the box in question seems to work ok
[19:20] * d-ArkAngel hasn't got that line in his config :-)
[19:20] * d-ArkAngel adds it
[19:20] <cbreak> oh, nice "%distributionURIOverride="
[19:22] <i2p_iip> <salgo> i am not really shure what this override rule does...
[19:22] <cbreak> distribution.allowedHosts seems to controll the accessability of the generated pages.
[19:22] <d-ArkAngel> well I've added it, I'll just sit back and wait for my node to start up...
[19:22] <i2p_iip> <salgo> no, the distributionURIOverride rule
[19:23] <cbreak> that should change the uri which is used on fproxy.
[19:23] <cbreak> "# URI to distribution servlet, e.g. for SSL tunneling"
[19:24] <d-ArkAngel> ok, now that's VERY strange. I've added the two lines you've mentioned. Now it links to the performance page? Wierd
[19:24] <cbreak> hmm... :)
[19:25] * d-ArkAngel removed the URIOverride option and starts the restart process again
[19:25] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[19:26] <i2p_iip> <salgo> i can't see why changing a part of an url (not the ip/host or port) is neccesary for ssl tunneling
[19:27] <d-ArkAngel> for the internal links it generates maybe? assuming it's needing absolutes anywhere.
[19:28] <cbreak> you would make a link to https:// protocoll instead of http://
[19:28] <cbreak> and you would use an other port for the tunnell
[19:30] <i2p_iip> <salgo> the port is controlled with the distribution.port rule
[19:30] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[19:31] <cbreak> but that seems to affect the port of the servlet itself. If you tunnel it over ssl, the port used on the fproxy servlet link has to be different.
[19:31] <i2p_iip> <salgo> right
[19:31] <cbreak> you would only allow local connections directly, external ones have to use the tunnel, which then would be encrypted.
[19:31] <cbreak> (I think :)
[19:32] <cbreak> what shell do you use?
[19:32] <d-ArkAngel> so no matter what, it'll only allow connections from 127.0.0.1 so it must be SSH tunneled?
[19:33] <cbreak> to generate pages yes, but the generated pages should be accessible from everywhere.
[19:33] * d-ArkAngel generates a page to see what is going on.
[19:33] <cbreak> (well, if you port forward and all...)
[19:34] <d-ArkAngel> (so should that link not be shown on the node homepage to users who are accessing from another machine on the network then?)
[19:35] <cbreak> If you make a public node, then you would use a special option, I think.
[19:36] <d-ArkAngel> fun, "Come back later - the node has started to try to download the missing files from freenet, it will put them in /root/freenet/distrib when they have
[19:36] <d-ArkAngel> been downloaded.
[19:36] <cbreak> yes. it needs windows stuff...
[19:36] <cbreak> all those useless .exe files... (you could download them yourself and save network traffic...)
[19:37] <d-ArkAngel> interesting that it's going to try and get them through freenet. I wonder what the chances are.
[19:37] <cbreak> on unstable the files wherent available last time I tried...
[19:37] <d-ArkAngel> well I'm on stable, so I might get lucky.
[19:41] <i2p_iip> <salgo> i had a few times problems getting the readme from the link in the node interface...
[19:42] <d-ArkAngel> I've been using a page full of dilbert commics to see how my node is getting on with the network.
[19:43] <d-ArkAngel> the interesting thing is that having restarted it, it's failing to get the comics that it has been getting first time for the last two days. but it's getting a totaly different set
[19:43] <d-ArkAngel> (tho there is some overlap)
[19:43] <i2p_iip> <salgo> tried the readme a few minutes ago, result: DNF
[19:44] <cbreak> d-ArkAngel: a dbr page?
[19:44] <d-ArkAngel> dbr?
[19:44] <cbreak> date based redirect. the only "updateable" keytype.
[19:44] <d-ArkAngel> got the readme first time just now
[19:45] <cbreak> the readme should be local. strange...
[19:45] <d-ArkAngel> SSK@OLEHtIqF1umhSi1xzuQHCOscTa4PAgM,dtP4zBQkY2W4dDEhI3HbeQ/comics/db/1//
[19:45] <cbreak> d-ArkAngel: looks more like a static, edition based page. strange, they should not be able to change...
[19:45] <d-ArkAngel> it's not the page that's chanceing....
[19:46] <d-ArkAngel> it's that it's finding a totaly differnet subset of the images linked on the page
[19:46] <i2p_iip> <salgo> i always had problems with the readme-link, i saw it working only once
[19:46] <cbreak> ah... ok.
[19:46] <d-ArkAngel> (it's an old page, so the routing isn't very good with it.
[19:46] <cbreak> salgo: that one: http://localhost:8888/servlet/nodeinfo/documentation/readme
[19:48] <i2p_iip> <salgo> yes it says: "Click here to read the README file." and gives the key http://127.0.0.1:8888/CHK@ix0Z0wFt5jfWFGmbIZaLud~VOIsPAwI,2MBdgGPT57XMzl0AxpSKyA?mime=text/plain
[19:48] <i2p_iip> <salgo> and this link times out again and again
[19:48] <cbreak> hmm... on unstable its an embeded file.
[19:49] <i2p_iip> <salgo> that sounds like a really good idea :-)
[19:49] <d-ArkAngel> it's not redirecting on mine either, and I'm on stable....
[19:49] <cbreak> salgo: which build?
[19:50] * d-ArkAngel tries the key, to see if that works.
[19:50] <d-ArkAngel> DNF here too.
[19:50] <i2p_iip> <salgo> 5096, but i observe this behaviour since a few months/builds
[19:52] <i2p_iip> <salgo> thinking of that, i never updated the config-file, has something changed there?
[19:54] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-238-121.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[20:11] <toad_> <d-ArkAngel> The Link labled Spread Freenet on my node links to http://127.0.0.1:8891/ even tho I'm accessing the node via a none local IP address, is this something that needs changeing in a config file? or is that a bug?
[20:11] <toad_> this is for security
[20:11] <toad_> if we have the dist servlet page creation interface accessible from non-localhost, then they can probe your node, get its ref, and connect to it, with no user intervention
[20:12] <i2p_iip> <gott> *GIVES TOAD A HUG*
[20:12] <d-ArkAngel> ok, but should perhaspes that not show when you're accessing the node from another machine
[20:12] <toad_> hi gott!
[20:12] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: perhaps
[20:12] <d-ArkAngel> just a thought, save idiots like me from being confuzeld :-)
[20:12] <i2p_iip> <gott> hi toad !
[20:12] <d-ArkAngel> In other news, I've just managed to compile freenet! woo hoo! :-)
[20:13] <d-ArkAngel> now if only I could work out how to make eclipse run the simulator.... :-)
[20:13] <i2p_iip> <gott> lots of people were making complaints about freenet success rates a while back. specifically KenMan.
[20:13] <i2p_iip> <gott> lots of people were making complaints about freenet success rates a while back. specifically KenMan.
[20:19] <toad_> gott: hu
[20:19] <toad_> gott: any details?
[20:20] <i2p_iip> <gott> <KenMan> With 100 routes, all giving 100s mRI (an unlikely example), each route has a ~10% chance of becoming available in the 'next' 10s - it adds perhaps 10 extra routes to the pool of choices.
[20:21] <i2p_iip> <gott> <KenMan> But since ALL requests are queued, they are still competing on /equal/ grounds, and should occupy the same number/amount of routing slots.
[20:22] <i2p_iip> <gott> <KenMan> Yet, strangely, now that queueing is in place - my node has sent out 87521 requests, and received 47929 QRs(RNFs). The rest must be timeouts.
[20:22] * kiwi_uk (~kiwi_uk@212.219.225.104) Quit ("Leaving")
[20:25] <d-ArkAngel> toad: any chance you could help me get the simulator to run, eclipse is like a whole other world to me. I did java before all these IDE's showed up :-(
[20:26] <i2p_iip> <gott> toad, I am going to sleep
[20:26] <i2p_iip> <gott> toad, I am going to sleep
[20:26] <i2p_iip> <gott> wish me good night
[20:27] <d-ArkAngel> Night.
[20:27] <i2p_iip> <gott> thank you, d-ArkAngel. But you are not toad.
[20:27] <i2p_iip> <gott> I wait for toad.
[20:28] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: build it
[20:28] <toad_> ant clean jar
[20:28] <d-ArkAngel> true, but goodnight all the same ;-)
[20:28] <toad_> then run it
[20:28] <toad_> what's the big friggin deal?
[20:28] <i2p_iip> <gott> thank you d-ArkAngel
[20:28] <d-ArkAngel> yeah I've done that. (tho I had to get eclipse to do it, as ant kept complaing about Head and Tail.
[20:28] <i2p_iip> <gott> *hug*
[20:28] <i2p_iip> <gott> toad ! where's my good night kiss ?
[20:28] <toad_> head and tail??
[20:28] * toad_ hugs gott
[20:29] <i2p_iip> <gott> excellent.
[20:29] <d-ArkAngel> yeah it lots of errors about not being able to find the class Head and the class tail.
[20:29] <i2p_iip> <gott> good night ! good work on Freenet and good luck with the rest of it.
[20:29] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: that's bizarre
[20:29] <toad_> what are you compiling it with?
[20:29] <i2p_iip> <gott> don't you ever give up hope, toad. you'll fix the bugs someday :)
[20:29] <d-ArkAngel> Someone said they'de compiled it using eclipse. which I've downloaded and that seems to work ok now.
[20:29] <toad_> do you have lots of different JVMs installed?
[20:30] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@dhcp102.mtcc.iit.edu) has joined #freenet
[20:30] <d-ArkAngel> 1.5.0 and 1.4 J2EE
[20:30] <toad_> are you sure about that?
[20:30] <toad_> anyway could you paste what happened, slowly?
[20:30] <toad_> some of it?
[20:31] <d-ArkAngel> sure
[20:31] <d-ArkAngel> let me make it do it again :-)
[20:34] <d-ArkAngel> rahter than flood the chan...
[20:34] <d-ArkAngel> http://www.scabserver.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=38
[20:34] <d-ArkAngel> or I can if you want...
[20:35] * toad_ reads
[20:36] <toad_> eeek
[20:36] <toad_> you're probably running ant in the wrong directory
[20:36] <toad_> it's something stupid like that anyway...
[20:36] <d-ArkAngel> from inside the same DIR as the .xml file
[20:36] <toad_> or, far more likely, you have another JVM installed
[20:36] <toad_> are you running linux other than LFS?
[20:36] <d-ArkAngel> Fedora core 2
[20:37] <toad_> most distros install the free JVMs.. which are crap..
[20:37] <toad_> so it could just be a PATH issue
[20:39] <d-ArkAngel> Well I guess I'll just have to start learning how eclipse works. :-(
[20:39] <toad_> it should be possible to just use ant
[20:39] <toad_> i use ant to create the jar
[20:39] <toad_> if it's not something's broken
[20:40] <toad_> 99.99% chance you've just got gcj or kaffe or something installed as well as the sun vm
[20:40] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Anyone know why I'd be able to retrieve some site manifests through fproxy but not another FCP client, aside from HTL?
[20:40] <toad_> this is of course all sun's fault...
[20:40] <toad_> FillaMent: no idea...
[20:40] <d-ArkAngel> if they were open everyone would include it I suppose.
[20:41] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Hmm... because the YoYo updater can only retrieve about a dozen sites. Doesn't even manage to get my flog, inserted on the same node.
[20:41] <toad_> that's very strange...
[20:41] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Everything worked fine when Reskill was running the same code
[20:41] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: exactly
[20:42] <toad_> FillaMent: what are you using to fetch it?
[20:42] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Old version of FcpTools that came with frost that were written by someone other than Jantho.. don't remember who.. name's in the source
[20:43] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I'm slowly working on my own FCP API... but it's very slow and I don't always have access to a running node when I have time to work on the API
[20:46] * cbreak (~cbreak@dhcp-32-094.via-eth.ch) Quit ("leaving")
[20:47] <d-ArkAngel> I think I found what ants trying to do. it's using the gcc-java compiler....
[20:49] <toad_> |Europe's famous Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) will now be monitoring the U.S. elections.
[20:49] <toad_> woah, cool!
[20:49] * dli_ (~dli@anna-bhat.uchicago.edu) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:50] <d-ArkAngel> neat, does that mean we get a vote too? :-)
[20:50] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Maybe they can sort it out
[20:50] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Maybe they can sort it out
[20:50] <toad_> [OT] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3666898.stm
[20:50] <toad_> FillaMent: I hope so, I'm looking forward to jeb bush being publicly tarred and flogged :)
[20:51] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> I'm scared of an America governed by bush for another four years
[20:52] <d-ArkAngel> I'm scared of America.
[20:53] <d-ArkAngel> there's too much power there to be guided by any government that's constantly engaged in a popularity contest.
[20:54] <toad_> [ot] | voters in the state of Oregon have no choice - the election there is entirely mail based. - yikes!
[20:54] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> You need only fear the leaders. The people are too divided on any given issue to affect the world
[20:54] <toad_> no, fear the money
[20:55] <d-ArkAngel> fear the fear :-)
[20:56] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: did you get the compiler working?
[20:56] <d-ArkAngel> no I've found the problem, I'm just hunting to try and find the solution. bloody "helpful" pre installed "stuff"
[20:56] <toad_> :)
[20:57] <Usurp> fear the electronic vote...
[20:57] <d-ArkAngel> it seems that eclipse knows how to get it to use the compiler it wants, and I would have thought that /etc/ant.conf would have been the place to do it for command line, but no such luck
[20:58] <toad_> just put the sun java ahead of the built-in java in the PATH
[20:58] <toad_> PATH=$JAVA_HOME/bin:$JAVA_HOME/jre/bin:$PATH
[20:58] <toad_> export PATH
[20:58] * Ash-Fox (~N@aap86.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[20:58] <toad_> hi Ash-Fox
[20:58] <toad_> [OT] Usurp: and the all-postal vote
[20:59] <Usurp> sun java's not absolutely perfect.... or is it the windows part that makes it crash ?
[20:59] <Ash-Fox> hello toad_
[20:59] <toad_> Usurp: sun java's a PITA
[20:59] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Fear the vote of stupid people
[20:59] <toad_> unfortunately free java has major bugs related to NIO
[20:59] <Usurp> toad_: exact
[20:59] * Ash-Fox had to fight this damn evil windows box to get it to use openvnc instead of the wireless network
[20:59] <d-ArkAngel> lol... "file:/root/freenet/freenet/build.xml:128: Error running gcj34 compiler"
[20:59] <d-ArkAngel> that's what I get for un-installing it :-)
[20:59] <toad_> FillaMent: ... and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'cos there's bugger all down here on earth!
[20:59] <Ash-Fox> now... I need to test this thing.... brb
[21:00] <toad_> (from the python galaxy song)
[21:00] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> The Meaning of Life
[21:00] <Usurp> toad_: candidates will have hackers if the electronic vote gets on the road
[21:00] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: woah
[21:00] <toad_> Usurp: maybe... isn't it cool that we have the diebold files on freenet?
[21:00] <toad_> that is, if you can actually download them at the moment...
[21:00] <i2p_iip> <FillaMent> Anyone here do any C++ programming as a job? Not necessarily now
[21:01] <Usurp> toad_: im sure we can :)
[21:02] <toad_> might be an idea to make sure they're still available on stable...
[21:03] <Usurp> they even made experiments with a chimpanzee
[21:04] <toad_> shit
[21:04] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:04] <Usurp> and the chimpanzee managed to erase the results of the vote
[21:04] <toad_> my simulation OOMed!
[21:05] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[21:05] <d-ArkAngel> OOMed?
[21:05] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:06] <d-ArkAngel> Out Of Memory?
[21:06] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[21:07] <Usurp> sanity: DSL problems ?
[21:07] <toad_> yup
[21:07] <toad_> he's not here..
[21:08] <d-ArkAngel> woo hoo! I've downloaded a clean biuld of ant, and it's worked :-)
[21:08] <Usurp> zzzing ?
[21:08] * toad_ hrrm
[21:08] * Ash-Fox (~N@aap86.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[21:09] <d-ArkAngel> if I had a spare day I'd bloody get rid of all this "junk" and do a clean distro where I know what's what.
[21:09] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:09] <Usurp> if only windows java from sun had better garbage collector....
[21:10] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[21:10] <toad_> i'm amazed that it's that bad, there's really no possible excuse for it
[21:10] <d-ArkAngel> they can't make it too good, it might catch on and start binning all the MS threads that are running ;-)
[21:11] <Usurp> <g>
[21:11] <toad_> huh?
[21:12] <d-ArkAngel> Sorry, I was just takeing an optertunity to diss windows ;-)
[21:12] <Usurp> there are many :))
[21:13] <d-ArkAngel> if only it weren't so grandmother friendly...
[21:14] <Usurp> I hope thats irony
[21:14] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:14] <d-ArkAngel> kinda. I'd have said mother, but my mum uses linux.
[21:15] <toad_> :)
[21:15] <Usurp> lets bet that sanity uses a windows connection :)
[21:15] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[21:15] <toad_> no, he uses a mac
[21:15] <d-ArkAngel> my net connection is being a little wierd, but based on this box at the moment, I'm not shocked.
[21:16] <Usurp> ok, then he is using a PC emulator ;))
[21:16] <toad_> lol
[21:16] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[21:16] <d-ArkAngel> no, he's installed IE on it :-)
[21:16] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: your mum uses linux??
[21:16] <toad_> my mum doesn't even use linux!
[21:16] <d-ArkAngel> yeah, my mum, and my fiencee (don't laugh at the spelling ;-) )
[21:17] <toad_> unfortunately the more demanding users are often the hardest to convert
[21:17] <Usurp> d-ArkAngel: notice IE is available on mac ;)
[21:17] <d-ArkAngel> yeah I know, I've had to write DHTML work arround specal for it.
[21:17] <d-ArkAngel> last time I reformated thier PC I put Mnadrake on it. they didn't comment on the for over a month when they asked why it looked different.
[21:18] <Usurp> it even runs better on linux using wine
[21:18] <d-ArkAngel> internet + e-mail + WordProcessor + Spreadsheet and she was fine.
[21:19] <d-ArkAngel> yeah I've heard that, but other than as a test to see how well wine is working I think that's and EVIL thing to even speak of....
[21:19] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[21:19] <Usurp> now even the Army has linux...
[21:19] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: well, when linux can run The Sims 2, The Sims + all EPs, SimCity, Dreamweaver and Frontpage, she might think about it...
[21:20] <toad_> Usurp: IE 6.0 runs on wine?
[21:20] <d-ArkAngel> The sims and things is fair enough, but Dreamweaver? wow.
[21:20] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) has joined #freenet
[21:20] <d-ArkAngel> can't you get dreamweaver for Linux care of the fact that there's a Mac OSX version?
[21:21] <toad_> i don't think so
[21:21] <d-ArkAngel> or is that just my wishful thinking?
[21:21] <Usurp> toad_: IE 5 runs well, a guy named Frank wrote instructions on how to install it
[21:21] * toad_ nods, knew about IE5
[21:21] <d-ArkAngel> IE6 dosn't even run well in windows half the time ;-)
[21:22] <Usurp> frankscorner.org
[21:23] <Usurp> on frank's corner I see that IE 6.0 SP1 is supported and documented
[21:24] <d-ArkAngel> :-) I've played Diablo 2 under wine, that was working pretty well, and that was quite some time ago.
[21:24] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:25] * d-ArkAngel wonders how bad java would be on linux using the windows JRE under wine....
[21:25] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[21:25] <Usurp> I did the translation of some utilities in wine, like regedit, notepad and others...
[21:26] <d-ArkAngel> fraid I was just a luser on that project.
[21:26] * seberino_ is now known as seb______
[21:26] * seb______ is now known as seb-
[21:27] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: lots of stuff runs under cedega/winex
[21:27] <toad_> that's more or less commercial though
[21:27] <Usurp> hehe, winex is not wine :)
[21:28] <toad_> it runs more than wine does...
[21:28] <toad_> and they send back a lot of stuff to wine
[21:28] <toad_> basically all the non-3d stuff, afaics
[21:28] <Usurp> yeah, but give $$
[21:28] * seb- is now known as seb--
[21:28] <toad_> and copy protection code will never run on regular wine
[21:29] <toad_> copy protection code is an abomination, but it's ubiquitous on windows apps...
[21:29] * seb-- is now known as seb-
[21:29] <toad_> especially games
[21:30] <Usurp> if they were cheaper, copy protection would be useless...
[21:30] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[21:30] <Usurp> and wine can already open some protected content... like DVDs
[21:30] <toad_> why would there be code to read DVDs in wine?
[21:31] <Usurp> the code is in DVD readers, not in wine
[21:31] <Usurp> and some of them run happily on wine
[21:31] <d-ArkAngel> pitty most of the game copy protections don't work.
[21:31] <d-ArkAngel> tho it's not much of a surprise
[21:32] <Usurp> 'cause these are hardware protections
[21:32] <d-ArkAngel> since if we could emulate them in linux, then that'd be them rendered useless anyways.
[21:32] <toad_> eh?
[21:32] <toad_> most of these are by no means hardware
[21:32] <toad_> serious copy protection hardware has yet to be inflicted on the world
[21:33] <Usurp> fortunately some companies understood that they can develop for linux
[21:33] <d-ArkAngel> toad, I realise I'm being a pain (and a useless idiot too) but how to I launch a class from in a .jar file when it's not the one in the manifest (i.e. what's the command line I need to launch the simulator :-) )
[21:34] <d-ArkAngel> I swear it's the last question :-)
[21:35] <Usurp> testers are never useless
[21:35] <toad_> java -cp freenet.jar:freenet-ext.jar <fully qualified class name> -- <arguments>
[21:35] <toad_> e.g. java -cp freenet.jar:freenet-ext.jar freenet.node.simulator.Main -- fastestimators pcaching nonewbie
[21:36] <d-ArkAngel> no but there's a point at which a tester takes up more of the developers time then he's worth
[21:36] <d-ArkAngel> cool thanks.
[21:37] * toad_ fixes BigBug in new non-fully-connected simulator code...
[21:38] <Usurp> do you know what "Got a TWCM that was not finished!" means ?
[21:38] <toad_> it's still taking a rapidly increasing time per cycle though...
[21:39] <toad_> Usurp: it means a send timed out in a trailer transfer
[21:39] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:39] <toad_> or something like that
[21:39] <Usurp> ty
[21:39] <d-ArkAngel> .9984 success ratio. that's a lot higher than the old fully connected graphs were....
[21:40] <toad_> hehe, not for long...
[21:40] <Usurp> if only I could have more download than upload...
[21:40] <d-ArkAngel> hmm, yeah it does seem to be falling slightly.
[21:40] <toad_> Usurp: eh?
[21:40] <d-ArkAngel> and I see what you mean about the slowdown of the cycles.
[21:40] <d-ArkAngel> up to nearly 15 seconds.
[21:41] * toad_ commits...
[21:41] <toad_> the current non-fully-connected sim code is crap
[21:41] <toad_> update...
[21:41] <toad_> to 60246...
[21:41] <Usurp> basically I always have upload transfer > download transfer
[21:41] <toad_> Usurp: I don't understand
[21:42] <toad_> Usurp: you mean your bandwidth usage?
[21:42] <toad_> or transfer rates? or what?
[21:42] <Usurp> yup
[21:42] <toad_> any decent peer to peer will on average have upload = download
[21:42] <toad_> because they have to add up
[21:42] <toad_> upload > download just means your node is a net contributor - it is serving data from the store
[21:42] <toad_> this is a good thing
[21:43] <toad_> alternatively it could indicate some insert mess :(
[21:43] <Usurp> atm I have 40 kB dl and 80 kB upl
[21:43] * Ash-Fox (~N@aap86.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[21:43] <toad_> kB or kbit?
[21:43] <Usurp> kB
[21:43] <toad_> 80kByte uplink is impressive.. what's your connection?
[21:44] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-238-121.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[21:44] * toad_ strongly recommends anyone playing with simulations upgrade to 60246...
[21:44] <Ash-Fox> finally... I figured out how to get the vnc connection to work as the default connection instead of the wi-fi....
[21:44] <Usurp> 6M for download
[21:44] <Ash-Fox> err vpn
[21:44] * Ash-Fox kicks windows
[21:44] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[21:44] <Usurp> and 1M for upload
[21:44] <toad_> Ash-Fox: that doesn't make much sense either :)
[21:45] <Ash-Fox> toad_, for some reason, windows xp on my laptop decided that the wi-fi network should receive all the IP packets instead of the VPN... which was on the network
[21:46] <toad_> traitor ;)
[21:46] <Ash-Fox> toad_, in the end, I figured out all I had todo was enter "1" into the TCP/IP settings of the metric....
[21:46] <d-ArkAngel> lol @ traitor
[21:46] <Ash-Fox> argh... now my text is jumbled up
[21:46] <Ash-Fox> toad_, I pretty much cannot get my bluetooth or wi-fi card to work on linux :P
[21:47] <toad_> yeah, i have heard bad things about wifi cards...
[21:47] <d-ArkAngel> I've not had any problems with mine, what wi-fi card is giving you trouble?
[21:47] <d-ArkAngel> and I'm using a BT keyboard in native BT mode now.
[21:48] <toad_> what's BT?
[21:48] <toad_> oh
[21:48] <d-ArkAngel> Blue Tooth
[21:48] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[21:48] <toad_> that means anyone within 3 blocks can intercept your typing?
[21:48] <Ash-Fox> oh, and linux does NOT support my IRDA port
[21:48] <d-ArkAngel> isn't it annoying when you ask a question, and then just as you send it you work out the answer?
[21:48] <d-ArkAngel> no, it's encrypted
[21:48] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: how?
[21:49] <toad_> I mean how's the crypto set up?
[21:49] <toad_> typing in a password?
[21:49] <d-ArkAngel> (tho I can't get the mouse to connect using the encrypted mode :-) so they can see me waving the mouse pointer arround if they so desire :-) )
[21:49] <toad_> (on both ends)?
[21:49] <d-ArkAngel> yeah
[21:49] <toad_> which is stored in flash on the keyboard?
[21:50] <Ash-Fox> Right... now to setup the VPN client on my slackware server
[21:50] <d-ArkAngel> yeah, probably not as clever as flash, it's probably just low power ram.
[21:50] <toad_> cool, now just have the problem of having enough entropy in the password...
[21:50] * Ash-Fox hopes the server is willing to cooperate today -.-
[21:50] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: at least it gets wiped when you take the batteries out that way ;)
[21:51] <d-ArkAngel> it gets wiped every time I boot windows :-)
[21:51] <d-ArkAngel> dag nab it :-)
[21:51] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-213-023-254-211.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[21:51] <d-ArkAngel> the windows drivers are automatic, but the linux ones need a kick to get started, so I have to SSH in with my laptop after I've been into windows to give it the needed kick :-) )
[21:52] <d-ArkAngel> still it's been a while since I've been into windows. and given I'm running linux 24x7 in case you feel the need to simulate anything, I think windows will be gone for a long time :-)
[21:53] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: what sort of kick?
[21:54] <d-ArkAngel> basically I have to ask the devices to pair with the OS.
[21:54] <d-ArkAngel> in windows the drivers will do it when I press the "blue button" on the BT token, but in linux that's a non starter
[21:54] <toad_> from the OS end, or from the device end?
[21:54] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:55] * sanity (~ian@81-178-94-146.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[21:55] <d-ArkAngel> you press a button on the keyboard and that sets it looking for a partner.
[21:56] <d-ArkAngel> in linux you have to ssh in and tell the PC to look for a incooming connection. In windows you can press the button on the dongle and it starts looking.
[21:56] <toad_> why can't you just have linux automatically do it on bootup?
[21:57] <d-ArkAngel> because I'm to lazy to try and pick apart the FC boot scripts to decde where to put it :-)
[21:57] <toad_> vi /etc/init.d/dothingy ; update-rc.d dothingy defaults
[21:57] <toad_> (on debian)
[21:58] <toad_> creative laziness is a virtue
[21:58] <d-ArkAngel> yeah I'd probably guess the same. but as I say it only happens once in a blue moon anyway, so I'm never quite bothered enought to spend the time working it out, and then spending the time booting and shutting down windows :-)
[21:58] <toad_> ahh ok
[21:58] <d-ArkAngel> besides, it's further incentive to keep away from windows :-)
[22:02] <d-ArkAngel> toad, I think I see the reason it gets slower between each step...
[22:03] <d-ArkAngel> oh wait, no my mistake. :-(
[22:03] <d-ArkAngel> hmmm, 2am. Time for me to catch some sleep.
[22:05] * toad_ (toad@82-32-16-91.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Excess Flood)
[22:05] * toad_ (toad@82-32-16-91.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[22:06] <Usurp> excess flood ?? I dont see the point
[22:06] <toad_> i don't think i tried to paste anything...
[22:06] <toad_> very odd...
[22:07] <Usurp> very toad ? ;)
[22:07] <d-ArkAngel> it's the kind of thing that starts happening at this time of night.
[22:07] <d-ArkAngel> I'm off to hide under the covers till it stops.
[22:07] <d-ArkAngel> night guys
[22:07] <Usurp> 'night
[22:08] <d-ArkAngel> (and girls as applicable ;-) )
[22:09] <toad_> yeah, right
[22:09] <toad_> no girls here, the porn puts them off...
[22:09] <toad_> or something...
[22:09] <d-ArkAngel> you need to meet some different girls ;-)
[22:10] <toad_> well, girls who'd like the project's politics are probably rabid feminists...
[22:10] <toad_> who therefore wouldb
[22:10] <toad_> who therefore would be put off by the porn
[22:10] <toad_> it's not the geekiness - there ARE geek girls out there
[22:10] <toad_> some of them even IRC, or at least moo
[22:11] <toad_> I suppose IRC is more of a public forum, so they'd probably pretend to be guys
[22:11] <d-ArkAngel> so we need a geeky rabid feminists lesbian!
[22:11] <d-ArkAngel> lol
[22:12] <d-ArkAngel> it's funny the sorts of things that seem like normal conversation in the middle of the night. :-)
[22:12] <d-ArkAngel> i really am going now.
[22:12] <d-ArkAngel> night
[22:15] <toad_> heh
[22:15] <toad_> |The project's current Paypal balance is $237.53. The project requires approximately $2,000 per month to pay for its full time developer, Matthew Toseland.
[22:16] <toad_> we sent me a was last week...
[22:16] <toad_> bbl
[22:19] <d-ArkAngel> FYI the box is on, the JDK and ant are both based in thier own dirs off /usr if you want to use these CPU's for anything.
[22:19] <d-ArkAngel> night
[22:20] * d-ArkAngel (~robert@cpc2-midd2-5-0-cust16.midd.cable.ntl.com) has left #freenet
[22:33] * Usurp_ (syl@trudaine-8-82-230-34-86.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #freenet
[22:34] * Usurp_ is having problems too :) bloody winblows ;)
[22:35] * Usurp (syl@trudaine-8-82-230-34-86.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[22:35] * Usurp_ is now known as Usurp
[22:58] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@dhcp102.mtcc.iit.edu) Quit ("Client exiting")
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.