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[9:26] <toad_> hi Redb3ard , lolo-laptop
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[9:32] <Redb3ard> hey toad
[9:35] <Redb3ard> haha, chatzilla
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[9:42] <toad_> newbie routing is unrealistic and harmful long-term... announcements implemented via partial newbie routing are also harmful
[9:42] <toad_> should try announcements implemented via fake estimators...
[9:42] <hobx_> you try not having a complete graph
[9:43] <hobx_> 100% uninteresting
[9:43] <toad_> hobx_: huh?
[9:43] <toad_> there's no such thing as a complete graph!
[9:44] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-nonewbie.png
[9:44] <toad_> all the interesting lines have reached at least 14M requests
[9:55] <hobx_> I said graph, not lot
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[9:55] <hobx_> plot
[9:56] <hobx_> Graph = a set of vertices (nodes) and a set of edges
[9:56] <hobx_> it has nothing to do with plots that are sometimes always called graph
[9:56] <hobx_> complete graph = a graph where every vertex has an edge to every other vertex.
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[10:06] <toad_> an incomplete graph will be seriously slow
[10:06] <toad_> so i am trying to find out why even with a complete graph it learns so slowly
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[10:11] <toad_> hobx_: I thought your problem was with routing, not with connections?
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[10:47] <toad_> okay, 3 last options implemented... need to see what these do... after that will implement uber-simulation
[10:47] <toad_> i.e. simulation with relatively realistic connections, say 400 nodes, 25 connections each, that should be about as fast as the current code
[10:47] <toad_> maybe 200 with 50
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[10:58] <toad_> hi robilad
[10:58] <Redb3ard> i give up
[10:58] <toad_> Redb3ard: on what?
[10:59] <Redb3ard> i cant figure out the google puzzle
[10:59] <robilad> hi toad_
[10:59] <Redb3ard> {the first 10 digit prime found in consecutive digits of e}.com
[11:00] <toad_> Redb3ard: why is that so hard?
[11:00] <toad_> surely there are relatively fast tests to check primality of such small numbers?
[11:00] <Redb3ard> oh, i got that one
[11:00] <Redb3ard> the next website has a tougher problem
[11:03] <Redb3ard> http://7427466391.com/
[11:03] <Redb3ard> the first 4 seem similar enough
[11:03] <Redb3ard> but i cant figure out the similarity
[11:04] <toad_> hmmm
[11:04] * toad_ thinks he will go get some food
[11:04] <ShaunMacPherson> Redb3ard thats interesting, its a clue hunt for nerds :)
[11:04] <toad_> when i get back, the sims won't have finished, so i'll leave them running... but start to work on the Real Sim
[11:05] <toad_> i.e. the non-fully-connected sim
[11:05] * toad_ thinks 400 nodes with 25 connection limit each is reasonable
[11:05] <Redb3ard> shaun,i only learned algebra in highschool
[11:05] <toad_> maybe 200 with 50 also
[11:05] <Redb3ard> trig, and what little calculus i can manage, taught myself
[11:05] <Redb3ard> i can barely tell you what a logarithm is
[11:05] <toad_> with bidi, newbies-get-to-stay-for-N-hits, optional announcement, and StoreData
[11:06] <Redb3ard> so, if the function f(5) is somehow log based... i dont think i stand a chance
[11:06] <ShaunMacPherson> Who knows, just look it up on wikipedia although most of the math articles on Wikipedia are super pendantic
[11:06] <ShaunMacPherson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
[11:06] <Redb3ard> e is like pi, its a non-repeating fraction that goes on forever
[11:06] <ShaunMacPherson> I will help :)
[11:06] <Redb3ard> its important in logs
[11:06] <ShaunMacPherson> e is the natural log
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[11:07] <Redb3ard> yeh, i knew enough
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[11:07] <ShaunMacPherson> its useful for lots of interesting crapola
[11:07] <Redb3ard> and there are only so many 10 digit primes
[11:07] <toad_> it's the function that rises more slowly than any other
[11:07] <ShaunMacPherson> esp growth rates
[11:07] <Redb3ard> i was able to come up with it pretty quick
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[11:07] <toad_> it's the inverse of the function that rises faster than any other
[11:07] <toad_> (both while still being continuous)
[11:08] <toad_> bbiab
[11:08] <Redb3ard> so, have you been to that site?
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[11:08] <ShaunMacPherson> I went to that site that compares teh functions, how did u get there though?
[11:08] <toad_> oh, one other point... need to sim both LRU and current bidi conn strategy
[11:09] <Redb3ard> i used online resources to check e against a few 10 digit primes i found
[11:10] <Redb3ard> got lucky, i guess
[11:10] <ShaunMacPherson> it wants us to log in
[11:10] <Redb3ard> slashdot already said it was google... so a whois could probably have found it
[11:10] <Redb3ard> it wants you to log in?
[11:10] <Redb3ard> its asking me another puzzle
[11:11] <Redb3ard> fuck
[11:12] <ShaunMacPherson> is it?
[11:12] <ShaunMacPherson> lets c ompare
[11:12] <ShaunMacPherson> 7182818284
[11:12] <ShaunMacPherson> thats my first #
[11:13] <Redb3ard> 8182845904
[11:13] <Redb3ard> 8747135266
[11:13] <Redb3ard> 7427466391
[11:13] <Redb3ard> __________
[11:13] <ShaunMacPherson> me too
[11:14] <Redb3ard> 1 to 2, has a 5 digit string that shifts left
[11:14] <Redb3ard> others seem less similar
[11:14] <Redb3ard> they dont increase...
[11:15] <ShaunMacPherson> hmm
[11:15] <Redb3ard> are they just parts of e?
[11:15] <ShaunMacPherson> i got a plan
[11:15] <ShaunMacPherson> devide each by the first
[11:16] <ShaunMacPherson> they divide evenly
[11:16] <Redb3ard> duh
[11:17] <ShaunMacPherson> to 9 decimal places
[11:17] <ShaunMacPherson> though
[11:17] <ShaunMacPherson> each
[11:17] <Redb3ard> no
[11:17] <Redb3ard> look
[11:17] <Redb3ard> f(1) is the first 10 digit prime in E
[11:17] <Redb3ard> f(2) is the second digit prime
[11:17] <Redb3ard> check the other 3, theyre primes too
[11:18] <ShaunMacPherson> that first number isn't prime ;)
[11:18] <Redb3ard> bah
[11:18] <Redb3ard> some are even
[11:18] <ShaunMacPherson> yes...
[11:18] <ShaunMacPherson> :)
[11:18] <ShaunMacPherson> they all divide evenly
[11:18] <Redb3ard> i got confused
[11:18] <ShaunMacPherson> to 10 digits
[11:18] <Redb3ard> only the 4th
[11:19] <ShaunMacPherson> if you divide #2 by #1 its even
[11:19] <ShaunMacPherson> to 10 digits, its surprising they dont repeat
[11:20] <Redb3ard> im getting 1.139225
[11:21] <ShaunMacPherson> 1.13922496441649000000
[11:21] <ShaunMacPherson> thats what i got
[11:21] <ShaunMacPherson> is there a program that we can use to factor them?
[11:28] <ShaunMacPherson> http://www.brendonwilson.com/profile/000172.shtml here is the solution :>
[11:29] <Redb3ard> willing to give me a hint, before i just look at it?
[11:34] <Redb3ard> bah
[11:34] <Redb3ard> so they are sequences of e
[11:42] <ShaunMacPherson> we'd never figure that out
[11:42] <ShaunMacPherson> well, not me at least :)
[11:42] <ShaunMacPherson> apparently at the end it gives you an email address to submit your resume to work for google
[11:44] <ShaunMacPherson> brb, service pack 2 for windows xp totally screwed up my computer and im having to redo all the drivers for it (and reboot)
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[13:20] <jay> irc spam.. eesh
[13:21] <toad_> /join #bxl-ffii
[13:23] <jay> toad_: cool
[13:34] <jay> why would anyone upload thx1138 to freenet?
[13:34] <toad_> what is it?
[13:35] <i2p_iip> <anon> for the same reason they upload porn?
[13:35] <jay> toad_: old spielberg movie
[13:35] <jay> from the 80's i think
[13:36] <jay> there's porn on freenet?
[13:36] <i2p_iip> <anon> heh =:-O
[13:37] <jay> fascinating
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[14:05] <jay> toad_: is build 5095 in cvs under the tag 'stable' ?
[14:05] <toad_> jay: yes
[14:06] <jay> im tweaking it for diagnostic reasons wrt fcplib
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[14:37] <Archeron> is this a bad thing:
[14:37] <Archeron> Pooled threads running jobs: 246 (205%) [Rejecting incoming connections and requests!]
[14:37] <Archeron> it has been that way for a bit.
[14:56] <toad_> probably
[14:56] <toad_> show me the Environment page thread usage box
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[15:36] <d-ArkAngel> Hi all
[15:37] <d-ArkAngel> I tried running freenet on my file server, but it's got such a small processor that it was totaly crippled :-)
[15:37] <d-ArkAngel> So now I'm trying to get it running on my dual Opteron box.
[15:38] <d-ArkAngel> but I'm having troubles with getting it to run, anyone able to help me a little?
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[15:44] <Archeron> d-ArkAngel: can you be more specific? "It doesn't run doesn't tell us much.
[15:44] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: you here?
[15:44] <Archeron> toad_: iit seems to have calmed down over lunch.
[15:44] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: we can help, probably...
[15:44] <toad_> Archeron: hmm?
[15:44] <Archeron> <toad_> show me the Environment page thread usage box
[15:44] <toad_> ahhh good
[15:45] <Archeron> it was all load due to thread limit.
[15:45] <toad_> okay, I'll be back in ~ 5 mins, then I'll do some more graphs, then I'll get to writing the new non-fully-connected simulator code
[15:45] <toad_> Archeron: interesting - but why was it over the thread limit for so long?
[15:45] <toad_> what were all the threads doing?
[15:45] <toad_> bbiab
[15:46] <Archeron> no idea... now by quite a while I mean an hour or so. No idea what they were doing.
[15:47] <Archeron> Could have something to do with frost. I started it up after reading something about it helping nodes get connected on the "Proper care and feeding..." freesite.
[15:49] <d-ArkAngel> yeah, sorry I'm trying to do a dozen things at once ;-)
[15:49] <d-ArkAngel> let me start it and I'll show you the messages I get
[15:58] <Archeron> if there are a lot of messages, please just dump them in a page in your web server or use a pastebin.
[15:58] <d-ArkAngel> sure
[15:59] <d-ArkAngel> well the first thing I ran into was errors about libc.so.6, a little google told me to dissable part of the start-freenode.sh
[16:00] <d-ArkAngel> the bit setting the LD_ASSUME_KERNEL
[16:00] <toad_> hmmm
[16:00] <toad_> that might not be the right answer - did it work?
[16:00] <d-ArkAngel> which did seem to make it move one step further
[16:01] <d-ArkAngel> now I get a huge number of messages, and some java threads start, but seem to get "stuck"
[16:01] <toad_> can you get to the web interface?
[16:01] <d-ArkAngel> yes
[16:03] <d-ArkAngel> http://www.scabserver.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=33
[16:04] <d-ArkAngel> that's the messages I see as it starts.
[16:05] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: okay, inevitable consequence of freebsd
[16:05] <toad_> is it freebsd?
[16:05] <d-ArkAngel> I'm not running freebsd
[16:05] <toad_> or am i thinking of somebody else?
[16:05] <d-ArkAngel> it's fedora
[16:05] <toad_> hmmm
[16:05] <toad_> strange
[16:06] <d-ArkAngel> FC2, x86_64
[16:06] <toad_> x86-64 is supposed to run x86 binaries
[16:06] <toad_> are you using the x86 JVM or the x86-64 JVM?
[16:06] <d-ArkAngel> sun's x86-64 one.
[16:06] <toad_> java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /tmp/jbigi46369lib.tmp: /tmp/jbigi46369lib.tmp: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[16:06] <toad_> now that IS odd...
[16:06] <toad_> I don't kn ow
[16:07] <toad_> but it should work regardless, just slowly
[16:07] <d-ArkAngel> the thing that makes me think it's not running is that there's almost no load on the CPU (not enough to show up on the TOP list)
[16:08] <d-ArkAngel> and it crippled the other box I ran it on.
[16:08] <d-ArkAngel> which was a via mini-itx board.
[16:09] <toad_> can you get to the Web Interface?
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[16:10] <d-ArkAngel> yeah, it seems I can even browse freenet...
[16:10] <toad_> strange
[16:10] <toad_> firewalled?
[16:10] <d-ArkAngel> there is a firewall, but it's setup to allow incomming connections (worked just fine on the other box)
[16:12] <d-ArkAngel> the other interesting thing is that there is only one java process running.
[16:12] <d-ArkAngel> that's not right is it?
[16:13] <toad_> it might be if it's using NPTL
[16:13] <toad_> that shows up as one process
[16:13] <toad_> although java's stability with nptl is unclear
[16:13] <d-ArkAngel> and the thread has only used 5 seconds of CPU time since it started (it takes 4 getting through startup)
[16:14] <toad_> that's surprisign
[16:14] <toad_> connections?
[16:14] <d-ArkAngel> 7
[16:14] <d-ArkAngel> 6 out: 1 in
[16:15] <toad_> not unreasonable
[16:15] <toad_> i don't think there's any reason to be worried (yet)
[16:16] <d-ArkAngel> the other node I had loads of connections quite quickly and seemed to use lots of CPU time. this one is useing next to none, and it's using native java bigInts
[16:16] <d-ArkAngel> the native code, how optimised is that? could it be using SSE instructions?
[16:17] <toad_> not THAT optimised
[16:17] <d-ArkAngel> cos the tiny VIA chip in the other box might not have all the standard abilites (it's a fanless 800Mhz chip)
[16:17] <toad_> unstable? different code on the two machines?
[16:17] <toad_> well the tiny VIA chip is essentially an 800MHz cyrix 6x86
[16:17] <toad_> it's especially bad at FP
[16:18] <d-ArkAngel> hencs the "optomisations" might actually make it harder...
[16:18] <toad_> but generally it's a LOT slower than the dual opterons
[16:18] <d-ArkAngel> :-)
[16:18] <d-ArkAngel> true, but it was 100% load all the time, 4-5 threads runnable. this box has still only used 5 seconds of runtime
[16:19] <toad_> hmmmm http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-nonewbie.png
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[16:28] <toad_> will be interesting to see where altannounce goes...
[16:28] <toad_> i don't think sparseprobe makes much diff for the first few million requests...
[16:29] <toad_> randomizewhenequal seems to make a significant difference though...
[16:29] <toad_> bbl
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[16:53] <d-ArkAngel> What is the "Load" bar meant to indicate?
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[17:20] <toad_> d-ArkAngel: composite of various things, but 100% is "just right", more and we try to reduce load, less and we try to increase the number of requests we handle
[17:23] <d-ArkAngel> just cos it's reading 40% on my system, and there is still no CPU load, is it really that different from my via, about Load/Bandwidth
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[17:24] <toad_> go to the General page
[17:24] <toad_> it shows how it's calculated
[17:26] <d-ArkAngel> it's still saying I've only used 5 seconds of CPU time. I'm just having a hard time believing that all is well when it's being so... efficient? :-)
[17:26] <toad_> might be an nptl bug or something
[17:28] <d-ArkAngel> this is on jdk 1.5 I wonder if something major has changed that's helping the performance... (*wishful thinking*)
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[17:33] <toad_> bbiab
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[17:51] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit ("Visit http://CyberLore.net for recommendations on the best games, websites and freeware. Don't settle for anything else!")
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[18:13] <Zorix> the CofE dude doesnt seem to have much faith in freenet anymore
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[18:48] <d-ArkAngel> does bandwidth limiting work at the moment? freenet seems to be working quite well, but it's eating all my bandwidth :-)
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[19:21] <toad_> dystopia: yes
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[19:21] <toad_> doh
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[19:22] <toad_> <Zorix> the CofE dude doesnt seem to have much faith in freenet anymore
[19:22] <toad_> strange that really
[19:22] <toad_> what's he pissed off about? not long ago he was saying things were improving...
[19:24] <kers> somebody has stolen my freenet coffee mug :/
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[19:46] * toad_ wonders how many cents we make on a coffee mug.. :)
[20:00] <toad_> bbl zzz
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[21:18] <Redb3ard> if its anything like some "save the kids" charity...
[21:18] <Redb3ard> overhead is 99.999999% percent
[21:18] <Redb3ard> so you guys earn 1 cent for every 22 billion sold
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
