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[5:26] <joltrush> has anyone mentioned http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0406152 ?
[5:27] <joltrush> i don't know if it's of any interest to freenet developers or not - i thought i'd mention it just incase
[5:35] <hobx_> I have
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[5:36] <joltrush> is it of any use?
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[5:36] <hobx_> Not really.
[5:36] <hobx_> Their defenition of scalable is not the same as mine.
[5:36] <joltrush> oh
[5:36] <hobx_> The cost per query with there system is still O(n)
[5:37] <hobx_> It is probably a good proposal for searching in an entirely unstructured network though, so if I were writing Gnutella och kazaa I would take note.
[5:39] <joltrush> ok
[5:39] <hobx_> They claim to be sublinear for power law distributions with large Tau, but that is simply using the centralization inherent in such a skewed distribution.
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[5:41] <hobx_> (percolation sounds advanced, but all it means is a flooded search where you forward along each connection with some probability p instead of 1.)
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[5:42] <stazz> is freenet generally quite unusable for people? I mean, basically everything except the YoYo-portal fails to load for me?
[5:43] <hobx_> I think such is the case for everybody.
[5:43] <stazz> so there's no way to tune it up a bit?
[5:47] <sanity_> stazz: the first 24 hours or so are quite rough, but it improves after that
[5:48] <stazz> I used freenet some time ago, I figured giving it a large chunk of my HD and unlimited upstream would keep it running quite nicely.
[5:48] <stazz> I waited for a week before trying it out, well, the results were quite similar in what I'm getting now
[5:48] <sanity_> stazz: how long has it been running for?
[5:49] <stazz> ~18hours now
[5:49] <sanity_> hobx: have you had a chance to think about a proof of the LRU thing
[5:49] <sanity_> stazz: hmz, it should be starting to improve
[5:49] <sanity_> stazz: stable or unstable?
[5:49] <stazz> stable
[5:50] <sanity_> stazz: hmz
[5:50] <sanity_> stazz: have you set up port forwarding (if you are behind a firewall)?
[5:50] <stazz> you see.. I'm not quite sure about that :)
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[5:52] <stazz> what's the port-range for freenet? :E
[5:52] <stazz> that should be forwarded
[5:52] <sanity_> stazz: its randomly selected on installation
[5:52] <sanity_> stazz: check the listenPort parameter in your freenet.conf/ini file
[5:52] <stazz> so the one in my freenet.conf should be the one I need?
[5:52] <sanity_> yes
[5:53] <stazz> the listenport?
[5:53] <sanity_> yes
[5:53] <stazz> ok. will try.
[5:55] <toad_> hi sanity_
[5:55] <toad_> new graphs
[5:55] <sanity_> toad: oh?
[5:55] <sanity_> toad: anything interesting?
[5:55] <toad_> 1sec
[5:58] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2.png
[5:59] <toad_> random sucks w/ and w/o pcaching ;)
[5:59] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-norandom.png
[5:59] <stazz> sanity_: I'm able to open FIND, at least, so there might be some improvement. funny I didn't think about the firewall-issue, since it really was working somewhat "well" :E
[5:59] <toad_> fastestimators follow the non-fastestimator versions pretty well
[6:00] <toad_> and the graphs of the nonewbie lines continue to rise
[6:00] <sanity_> toad: i think you have a few too many lines on that graph, it is getting confusing
[6:00] <sanity_> well, the nonewbie thing is reassuring
[6:00] <toad_> 10 M queries, and we have only ~ 0.95...
[6:00] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-norandom-nonewbiepcaching.png
[6:00] <toad_> and that's the graph of all the newbie lines
[6:01] <toad_> which ALL suck
[6:01] <toad_> so it's either start high and fall slowly (newbie) or start low and rise slowly (nonewbie) ;)
[6:01] <toad_> as oskar points out newbie is probably pretty useless; I'll test announcements later today
[6:02] <toad_> sanity_: the big thing here IMHO is that fastestimators work
[6:02] <sanity_> yes
[6:02] <sanity_> well, and that NGR works :-)
[6:02] <toad_> no i mean the big thing this cycle
[6:03] <sanity_> ah, ok
[6:04] <toad_> it's irritating that we only reach 95% success after over 10 million requests though...
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[6:06] <sanity> ARGH!
[6:07] <sanity> why do i keep getting cut off?!
[6:07] <toad_> which is 100,000 requests per node
[6:07] <sanity_> well, how much has fallen out of the network?
[6:07] <toad_> that's another good point from ALL these simulations: NGR learns SLOWLY !
[6:07] <toad_> maybe our alchemy needs adjusting?
[6:07] <sanity_> which alchemy?
[6:07] <sanity_> hey, have you tried it with different numbers of buckets?
[6:07] <toad_> Overall success ratio: 0.9388
[6:07] <toad_> Still in store: 495/500: 0.99
[6:07] <toad_> hmmm
[6:07] <toad_> it fluctuates quite a bit
[6:07] <toad_> sanity_: good point, this is all running on 8 buckets
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[6:07] <toad_> so next:
[6:08] <vsalento> toad: if successrate is rising what is the limit for it? I mean how many files are still present on the network?
[6:08] <vsalento> toad: and have you tested whether the results are same for each simulation run?
[6:08] <toad_> ditch newbie, try announcements, try with 8, 16 and 32 buckets, with 0.05 and 0.1 and 0.2 alchemical movement factors.. also change the 5% random routing to 5% route-by-inexperience and make sure decisions are randomized if choosing between several inexperienced nodes
[6:09] <toad_> ditch newbie, try announcements, try with 8, 16 and 32 buckets, with 0.05 and 0.1 and 0.2 alchemical movement factors.. also change the 5% random routing to 5% route-by-inexperience and make sure decisions are randomized if choosing between several inexperienced nodes
[6:09] <toad_> vsalento: they're not
[6:09] <toad_> they vary slightly
[6:09] <toad_> because I'm using a hard random source
[6:09] <toad_> I suppose I ought to average it...
[6:10] <vsalento> but the graph profile is still the same I hope
[6:10] <toad_> http://amphibian.dyndns.org/simulations2-nonewbie.png
[6:11] <toad_> vsalento: hmm?
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[6:11] <toad_> vsalento: look at the fastestimators lines, compared to the lines which are otherwise identical
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[6:11] <stazz> is it normal that freenet eats up 60-70% of CPU on a 2100+ ? :)
[6:11] <toad_> brown against red, for example
[6:12] <toad_> err not brown
[6:12] <toad_> red against the yellowish color
[6:12] <toad_> stazz: probably not
[6:12] <toad_> stazz: did you set something silly like logLevel=debug?
[6:12] <toad_> are you using Frost or anything?
[6:12] <stazz> I used the defaults, mostly
[6:12] <toad_> and how long has the node been up?
[6:12] <stazz> hour an hour maybe.
[6:13] <toad_> it uses more CPU on startup, obviously, to open connections
[6:13] <stazz> for an hour even.
[6:13] <toad_> it might just be that
[6:13] <stazz> Yeah.. but I was just supprised to see it spawn ~220 java processes eating up all my cpu for a few minutes at a time, too..
[6:14] <toad_> 220? that's strange
[6:14] <toad_> show me the thread usage summary on the Environment page
[6:14] <stazz> did I mention I'm on linux?
[6:15] <stazz> Pooled threads running jobs 80 (66,7%)
[6:15] <stazz> Pooled threads which are idle 40
[6:15] <stazz> if those are what you mean
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[6:20] <toad_> stazz: yes, the box below that
[6:21] <stazz> Pooled thread consumers?
[6:21] <stazz> should I paste them or?
[6:26] <toad_> yes
[6:27] <stazz> Checkpoint: Opening connection 50
[6:27] <stazz> freenet.interfaces.LocalNIOInterface$ConnectionShell 6
[6:27] <stazz> freenet.message.DataRequest 6
[6:27] <stazz> freenet.message.QueryRestarted 13
[6:27] <stazz> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 37
[6:27] <stazz> freenet.node.states.data.TrailerWriteCallbackMessage:true:true 2
[6:27] <stazz> the amount of processes has come down a bit, to rough 170
[6:27] <toad_> looks like your node is pretty busy
[6:27] <toad_> running Frost or FUQID?
[6:28] <stazz> If they're something optional, nope :)
[6:36] <toad_> okay
[6:36] <toad_> well what's your specific problem?
[6:37] <toad_> it uses too much CPU, or it just doesn't work?
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[6:39] <stazz> toad_: Well, I consider the 40% cpu-load enormous
[6:39] <stazz> the pages are quite unresponsive, too, but I think I should wait some more.
[6:58] <toad_> bbiab
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[7:09] <stazz> should list-items in freenet.conf be separeted with space or a comma ?
[7:10] <sanity> comma IIRC
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[9:39] <hobx_> netsplit. party time
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[10:47] * thelema|away is now known as thelema
[10:48] <thelema> hi all
[10:48] <thelema> http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/live-bookmarks.html <- imagine sharing bookmarks over freenet
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[10:57] <toad_> hi thelema
[11:01] <i2p_iip> <gott> Good day, toad.
[11:01] <i2p_iip> <gott> isn't that what you say in england ?
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[11:04] <thelema> toad_: what's next on your plate?
[11:04] <Archeron> morning folks.
[11:05] <Archeron> Are these errors anything to worry about:
[11:05] <Archeron> :ERROR: Resource name [freenet/support/CPUInformation/libjcpuid-x86-freebsd.so] was not found
[11:05] <Archeron> WARN: Native CPUID library jcpuid not loaded - will not be able to read CPU information using CPUID
[11:05] <hobx_> thelema: I got them all working on sims!
[11:05] <Archeron> NOTICE: Resource name [net/i2p/util/libjbigi-freebsd-none.so] was not found
[11:05] <Archeron> INFO: Native BigInteger library jbigi not loaded - using pure java
[11:06] <thelema> hobx: got what all working on sims?
[11:06] <Archeron> does this tell me there is something else I can do to improve performance?
[11:06] <thelema> Archeron: yes. compile a libjbigi for your computer.
[11:06] <Archeron> thank you.
[11:06] <hobx_> Matthew and Ian
[11:08] <Archeron> thelema: where do I get this lib source?
[11:08] <thelema> hobx: more / still?
[11:08] <thelema> Archeron: grab the CVS tree.
[11:09] <toad_> Archeron: what CPU are you using?
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[11:09] <Archeron> p3 coppermine
[11:09] <toad_> hobx: eh?
[11:09] <Archeron> X2
[11:09] <toad_> oh yeah
[11:09] <toad_> oh, freebsd.. yeah...
[11:10] <toad_> :|
[11:10] <toad_> build a libjbigi, etc...
[11:10] <Archeron> so this is part of the freenet CVS tree?
[11:10] <toad_> yeah, in the Contrib module
[11:11] <toad_> thelema: yes, for now
[11:11] <Archeron> whats the cvs root?
[11:12] <toad_> go to freenet.sf.net for details
[11:12] <toad_> err sf.net/projects/freenet
[11:12] <Archeron> thanks
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[11:16] <toad_> hmmm
[11:16] <toad_> there may be something broken
[11:16] <toad_> with dodo...
[11:17] <i2p_iip> <gott> I challenge toad, son of frog, from the Kingdom of England, to a duel.
[11:17] <i2p_iip> <gott> I challenge toad, son of frog, from the Kingdom of England, to a duel.
[11:17] <i2p_iip> <gott> I challenge toad, son of frog, from the Kingdom of England, to a duel.
[11:17] <i2p_iip> <gott> I challenge toad, son of frog, from the Kingdom of England, to a duel.
[11:18] <toad_> if i send a mail from dodo to amphibian, it gets through
[11:18] <toad_> if i send a mail from amphibian to dodo, it doesn't
[11:21] <hobx_> I haven't gotten an email addressed to freenetproject.org for 5 days
[11:22] <thelema> toad_: any delivery errors? what mail server running on dodo?
[11:23] <toad_> i think it's a problem here
[11:23] <toad_> how do i force exim to send queued messages?
[11:23] <toad_> ah
[11:23] <toad_> exim -qf
[11:24] <i2p_iip> <gott> by the way, those repeated messages from eyekon aren't my fault.
[11:26] <hobx_> you emptied the queue and I still got no mail
[11:26] <hobx_> how depressing
[11:26] <toad_> hmm?
[11:26] <toad_> all the messages i had queued for the lists were sent
[11:26] <toad_> and came back to me
[11:26] <toad_> including at least 2 messages to tech
[11:26] <toad_> so it's not a problem with dodo
[11:27] <toad_> unless you've been unsubscribed
[11:27] <hobx_> nono
[11:27] <hobx_> I probably just didn't get any mail
[11:27] <hobx_> The mailing lists go to my gmail account anyways.
[11:27] <toad_> ah
[11:27] <toad_> well i didn't send you any direct mail :)
[11:28] <hobx_> Not exactly jumping up and down waiting for mail from you.
[11:28] <toad_> ;)
[11:28] <hobx_> However, I was hoping for some mail that if it was lost due to server problems I will personally strangle anyone who touches that machine.
[11:29] <toad_> well there is no evidence of server problems on dodo
[11:30] <hobx_> you got my hopes up for nothing :-(
[11:30] <hobx_> :-)
[11:30] <i2p_iip> <gott> I demand you rename that server.
[11:30] <toad_> ;)
[11:34] <toad_> hobx: any opinions on fast estimators? using doubles instead of bigints for estimating?
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[11:38] <thelema> The existing code uses full
[11:38] <thelema> BigInteger precision in report, but only double precision in guess,
[11:38] <thelema> for some unclear reason (perhaps performance or code clarity),
[11:38] <thelema> toad_: really?
[11:39] <toad_> thelema: didn't you write that code?
[11:39] <toad_> i think iakin did actually
[11:39] <toad_> in interpolate()
[11:39] <thelema> toad_: what code is it?
[11:39] <toad_> p is a double
[11:39] <thelema> FloatBucketStore?
[11:39] <toad_> SBKE.interpolate
[11:39] <thelema> iakin wrote SBKE.interpolate.
[11:39] <toad_> no, BucketStore has some severe and hard to identify bugs
[11:39] <toad_> was reverted
[11:39] <toad_> simulations tell me this :)
[11:40] <hobx_> Using biginterger is stupid.
[11:41] <thelema> toad_: would it be a waste of time for me to get bucketstore (specifically FloatBucketStore) working?
[11:42] <toad_> thelema: you need to compare it line for line with SBKE - there is something, i'm not sure what it is, but simulations with BucketStore produce success rates way lower than with SBKE
[11:42] <toad_> thelema: I have however got a FastSBKE class which i'm about to commit
[11:42] * Sugardude (~Sugadude@the.dogs.bollo.cx) has joined #freenet
[11:42] <thelema> so yes, it'd be a waste of time.
[11:42] <toad_> so it'd just be refactoring for the sake of refactoring, no performance gain
[11:52] * toad_ close to committing new code...
[11:53] <toad_> success rates with FastSBKE are ~ identical to success rates with SBKE
[11:53] <toad_> but FastSBKE runs a lot faster :)
[11:53] <toad_> this means we can do more longer simulations
[11:53] <toad_> it also means we can deploy it - it PROBABLY makes no difference on real networks too
[11:53] <Archeron> man... that libjbigi is quite a build...
[11:53] <toad_> in which case it could save people a lot of CPU usage
[11:54] <toad_> Archeron: :)
[11:54] <toad_> Archeron: did you build the jcpuid as well?
[11:54] <Archeron> not yet...
[11:54] <Archeron> it barfed huge when I ran the build script though
[11:54] <toad_> what did?
[11:55] <Archeron> build.sh
[11:55] <Archeron> it doesn't like my jdk
[11:56] <Archeron> lots of this kind of stuff:
[11:56] <Archeron> /usr/local/jdk1.4.2/include/jni.h:45: error: `jint' does not name a type
[11:56] <Archeron> /usr/local/jdk1.4.2/include/jni.h:237: error: expected `)' before '*' token
[11:56] <Archeron> etc
[11:58] * Sugadude (~Sugadude@pakastelohi.cypherpunks.to) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[11:59] <toad_> hmmm
[11:59] <toad_> no idea...
[11:59] * Sugardude is now known as Sugadude
[12:01] <toad_> hmmph
[12:01] <toad_> CofE is obviously asleep
[12:01] <toad_> 5093
[12:01] <toad_> 3rd September
[12:01] <toad_> ..
[12:01] <Archeron> what does jcpuid do?
[12:02] <toad_> tells the node what version of jbigi to use
[12:02] <Archeron> oh... so one without the other is useless?
[12:02] <toad_> pretty much
[12:02] <toad_> there might be an override, it was discussed, but i don't recall it being implemented
[12:03] <Archeron> so how do I install these so they will be used?
[12:03] <thelema> toad_: you don't *need* jcpuid
[12:03] <toad_> thelema: oh?
[12:03] <thelema> <Archeron> NOTICE: Resource name [net/i2p/util/libjbigi-freebsd-none.so] was not found
[12:04] <thelema> if he can supply a libjbigi-freebsd-none, it'll use thta.
[12:04] <toad_> ahhh
[12:05] <toad_> is that faster than the pure java?
[12:06] <thelema> yes. it defaults to that name if it can't detect the cpu
[12:06] <toad_> that's for 486, isn't it?
[12:07] <toad_> or is it pentium?
[12:07] <toad_> or are you saying he just has to copy the appropriate one for his CPU over it
[12:07] <toad_> and he'll get full speed?
[12:07] <thelema> toad_: he has to build it, so he could build it for whatever.
[12:08] <thelema> yes, he could put whatever one he wants in that named file.
[12:08] <Archeron> ok. cool
[12:10] * i2p_iip (~changate@host.teitel.net) Quit ("Leaving")
[12:10] <toad_> hmmm
[12:10] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[12:11] <toad_> a surprisingly large number of RNFs...
[12:11] <toad_> on unstable
[12:11] * Hory` (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) has joined #FreeNet
[12:11] <toad_> several nodes cleanly rejecting.. i wonder why..
[12:11] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[12:12] <toad_> anyway nothing in the log so probably not due to these changes... and i am opening a lot of pages over only ~ 27 connections...
[12:14] * NY_FireFly (~chatzilla@208.1.215.67) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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[12:31] * toad_ changes topic to 'Upgrade to 5095 (5089 is mandatory, more recent builds have queueing, major queueing bugfixes, fixes to seednodes generation; upgrade ASAP!) | Unstable: Upgrade to 60231 | Logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ | #freenet-politics and #freenet-chat are available for offtopic discussions'
[12:40] <toad_> 60231 is out...
[12:41] * kers (~kers@184.ppp135.rsd.worldonline.se) Quit ("Leaving")
[12:44] <Ash-Fox> If the continuum told you once, they've told you a thousand times... DON'T PROVOKE THE BORG!
[12:49] <Iakin> [11:45] <joltrush> has anyone mentioned http://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0406152 ?
[12:49] <Iakin> [11:58] <hobx_> They claim to be sublinear for power law distributions with large Tau, but that is simply using the centralization inherent in such a skewed distribution.
[12:49] <Iakin> But ofcourse
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[13:23] <toad_> Ash-Fox: just a non sequitur, or any particular significance?
[13:23] <Ash-Fox> no particular significance
[13:25] <Iakin> Hmm.. Firefox's new plugin download/install support is _really_ nice
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[13:54] * nextgens (~nextgens@d83-177-129-97.cust.tele2.fr) has joined #freenet
[13:54] <nextgens> hi all
[13:54] * FallingBuzzard (~srademach@207.152.112.129) has joined #freenet
[13:56] <toad_> hi
[13:56] <ShaunMacPherson> hi
[14:00] <nextgens> have you seen Zorix today?
[14:00] <ShaunMacPherson> hmmm he quit recently
[14:04] <nextgens> :-( thx
[14:04] <ShaunMacPherson> He had a connection time out, so he will be back i guess
[14:19] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) Quit (No route to host)
[14:37] <i2p_iip> <Newsbyte> toad, you there?
[14:43] <ShaunMacPherson> Toad was here a little while ago
[14:53] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) Quit ("brb")
[14:53] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) has joined #freenet
[14:56] <Canar> meh
[14:56] <Canar> tried new seednodes.ref, tried waiting forever, still can't access FUQID
[15:03] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-68-4-76.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[15:03] * nextgens is now known as nextgens|away
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[16:05] * nextgens|away (~nextgens@d83-177-129-97.cust.tele2.fr) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
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[16:06] <stazz> could you guys give me a rough estimations of the speed which pages should load in?
[16:07] <nextgens> Zorix : hi
[16:08] <stazz> I mean.. pages, excluding the largest portals, seem to load forever, or if at all.
[16:08] <nextgens> Zorix : did you manage to do something usable?
[16:14] <nextgens> Zorix :ping
[16:37] * nextgens (~nextgens@d80-170-40-148.cust.tele2.fr) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
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[17:16] <Zorix> hmm
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[17:39] <nextgens> ping
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[17:49] * pittaman (~mistery_b@d51A410CA.kabel.telenet.be) Quit ("My quits are usually very intelligent, but you wouldn't know ;)")
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[18:05] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-246-084.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[19:14] <toad_> hi
[19:15] <toad_> hmmm
[19:16] <toad_> looks like announcement makes very little difference in the test scenario...
[19:22] * _L_ (~L@hd5e242c4.gavlegardarna.gavle.to) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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[19:42] <toad_> bbiab
[19:42] <toad_> bbl even
[20:08] <soros> toad, i love you
[20:27] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-64-45-226-133.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:46] * Ashutto (~Cantide@adsl-ull-82-210.42-151.net24.it) has joined #freenet
[20:46] <Ashutto> Hello
[20:56] * Ashutto (~Cantide@adsl-ull-82-210.42-151.net24.it) Quit ("puchi puchi !!!")
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
