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[6:00] <freeswankr____> Have anyone an idea who much data will go thru my internetconnection when I have permanent connection (because I have a 2GB limit per month)
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[6:52] <Iakin5> freeswankr: That depends on the speed of the connection
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[6:57] <Iakin5> 128kBit/s -> theoretical capacity of 40 gig/month
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[7:01] <freeswankr____> Hello Lakin5: 1Mbit down 128 kbit up ; is this right: the only way to limit the capacity is to limit bandwith in the config??
[7:09] <Iakin5> fs: Either use the settings in the config, or use an external bandwidth limiter like NetLimiter.. I would probably recommend the latter method
[7:09] <Iakin5> (since it is more exact)
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[7:38] <toad_> hmmm
[7:38] <toad_> 26 FProxy requests, max age=28620966, min age=21913130:
[7:39] <toad_> that's not good - those values are in milliseconds!
[7:39] <toad_> definitely some major fproxy problems somewhere
[7:39] <toad_> bbiab
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[8:12] -lilo- [Global Notice] Hi all. I just wanted to take this opportunity to welcome the folk at the KDE Developer Conference, and mention that you've got your own special server, irc.akademy.kde.org .... have a great time, and as always, thank you for using freenode! :)
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[9:29] <Iakin5> Heh
[9:29] <Iakin5> Aug 25, 2004 3:29:14 PM (freenet.node.rt.StandardNodeEstimator, YThread-265, NORMAL): Took 3060156ms to get EarlyTimeout!
[9:29] <Iakin5> at freenet.node.rt.StandardNodeEstimator.earlyTimeout(StandardNodeEstimator.java:1166)
[9:29] <Iakin5> at freenet.node.rt.NGRouting.earlyTimeout(NGRouting.java:249)
[9:29] <Iakin5> 3000 seconds for an _early_ timeout ;)
[9:30] <Iakin5> Wonder what a non-early one can reach ;)
[9:35] <toad_> :)
[9:35] <toad_> probably related to the bug i'm working on
[9:38] <toad_> hmmm
[9:38] * toad_ found a queueing bug, but not sure if it explains the symptoms...
[9:43] <toad_> looks like the request-takes-forever is indeed caused by queueRun() not running... somehow...
[9:45] <toad_> presumably doReschedule() is entered and gets stuck?
[9:45] <toad_> PRI 25/08/2004 14:59:42.648 (freenet.node.ConnectionOpenerManager, YThread-203, NORMAL): doReschedule took 526150ms
[9:45] <toad_> woah
[9:46] <toad_> okay, that's why :(
[9:46] <KenMan> :o
[9:49] <toad_> aha
[9:49] * toad_ found another possibility too...
[9:50] <toad_> another queueing bug
[9:50] <toad_> might cause a near-infinite loop...
[9:53] <KenMan> the 4 smallest mRI values from my routes (right now) : 105ms , 133ms , 181ms , 533ms . The largest = 2271264ms .
[9:54] * KenMan wonders if toad is still against setting boundaries, so that nodes can only differ by ~1 order of magnitude ...
[9:55] <toad_> yes
[9:55] <toad_> for the time being
[9:56] <KenMan> just checking. You already have seen the troubles it causes...
[10:06] * toad_ waits for eclipse to respond... and waits... and waits...
[10:07] <Iakin5> [16:04] <toad_> PRI 25/08/2004 14:59:42.648 (freenet.node.ConnectionOpenerManager, YThread-203, NORMAL): doReschedule took 526150ms
[10:07] <Iakin5> Heh
[10:08] * toad_ is going to ensure that doReschedule doesn't run inline, and fix some bugs (including a near-infinite loop) in QueueManager
[10:08] <toad_> later I can deal with doReschedule taking ages in more detail if needed
[10:09] <KenMan> so Iakin notices funny JVM clock behavior also ?
[10:12] * KenMan notes that Iakin is probably using Windows . yet still sees the problem. Could Sun be intentionally bending time ?
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[10:15] <toad_> KenMan: that's from my node
[10:15] <toad_> and it's not a time issue
[10:15] <toad_> COM.doReschedule really did take 10 minutes
[10:15] * toad_ merging fixes to his local pre-5092...
[10:16] <KenMan> sorry, i was refering to the devl posts between you two...
[10:16] <Iakin5> KenMan: I dont know if it affects the actual system time..
[10:16] <toad_> which i am using exclusively for testing atm...
[10:16] <Iakin5> But I have seen signs of just that happen in the past
[10:20] <Iakin5> Seems like it happens under intense memory pressure
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[10:22] <toad_> what?
[10:23] <Iakin5> toad: Clock issues
[10:23] * toad_ going to commit some major queueing bugfixes soon..
[10:23] <toad_> Iakin5: the actual system clock, or the node freezing for periods of time?
[10:24] <KenMan> the values of time, as reported sequentially by the JVM
[10:26] <Iakin5> ...seems to go backwards now and then..
[10:26] <KenMan> in the past, i have found hourly data existing for the next to come hour (say 4:00 summary when it's only 3:17) , which implies that the JVM once delivered a time that was "in the future"
[10:28] <cbreak> "Can Java solve non-deterministic Problems by twisting the space-time continoum?"
[10:29] <toad_> lol
[10:29] <KenMan> well, it is reassuring to know that those Sun engineers feel comfortable engaging in time travel
[10:29] <toad_> you mean NP-complete, of course
[10:33] * toad_ restarts semi-stable node
[10:33] * toad_ will soon have some juicy bugfixes to commit to unstable...
[10:40] <toad_> okay, restarting...
[10:41] <toad_> 58 open conns
[10:41] <toad_> doReschedule taking long times...
[10:43] <toad_> 27 FProxy requests, max age=114232, min age=8406:
[10:45] <toad_> 29 FProxy requests, max age=201531, min age=28382:
[10:45] * toad_ opens all the controversy pages (well almost all) on yoyo, and all the yoyo pages, and TFE, for testing...
[10:45] <toad_> 28 FProxy requests, max age=223060, min age=1702:
[10:45] <toad_> still going up...
[10:45] <toad_> 28 FProxy requests, max age=245221, min age=23863:
[10:46] <toad_> still going up :(
[10:46] <toad_> some queue runs taking ages too...
[10:47] <toad_> PRI 25/08/2004 16:03:45.704 (freenet.node.QueueManager, Network reading thread, NORMAL): Queue run took 51626
[10:47] <toad_> hmmm
[10:47] <toad_> PRI 25/08/2004 16:06:33.377 (freenet.node.QueueManager, YThread-136, NORMAL): Queue run took 44408
[10:48] * toad_ hmm, probably just caused by cpu being pegged...
[10:49] <toad_> hopefully that's a temporary thing caused by startup...
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[10:49] <KenMan> how many incoming queries per minute ??
[10:52] <toad_> PRI 25/08/2004 16:03:45.704 (freenet.node.QueueManager, Network reading thread,
[10:52] <toad_> NORMAL): Queue run took 51626
[10:52] * toad_ hmmm
[10:53] * toad_ thinks the cpu usage is probably caused by queuerun and doreschedule...
[10:53] <toad_> PRI 25/08/2004 16:07:37.328 (freenet.node.QueueManager, YThread-142, NORMAL): Qu
[10:53] <toad_> eue run took 63893
[10:55] * toad_ finds that one to debug...
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[11:00] <matahari> does anyone know why sometimes my freenet.conf file gets over-written to contain only 2 lines
[11:00] <matahari> listenport=bla
[11:00] <matahari> seedNodes=seednodes.ref
[11:01] <matahari> hmm i think i accidentally ran preconfig.sh and thats what did it - nvm
[11:07] <toad_> hmmm
[11:07] <toad_> possibly caused by logging...
[11:07] * toad_ reduces logging slightyl...
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[11:08] <toad_> i may have to do some optimization here though...
[11:10] <gregh> hm. fred has successfully pegged my dsl connection
[11:13] <toad_> :(
[11:13] <toad_> gregh: what did you set outputBandwidthLimit to?
[11:14] <gregh> I left it at the default
[11:14] <toad_> okay, how fast is your DSL?
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[11:14] <gregh> perhaps I could try changing that, but I was reading stuff that said it was kind of inoperable
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[11:14] <gregh> I have 256kbits/sec outbound
[11:15] <toad_> hmmm
[11:15] <toad_> the default limit is 12000
[11:15] <toad_> which should be adequate for a 256kbps link...
[11:15] <gregh> http://hewgill.net/mrtg/
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[11:15] <gregh> it's not completely pegged, but it sure is laggier than usual :)
[11:17] <toad_> well you could reduce the bwlimit...
[11:18] <gregh> will try that
[11:18] <toad_> hmmm
[11:18] <toad_> definitely the slow queueRun's are because of the CPU being pegged
[11:19] <toad_> well probably hmmm
[11:19] <gregh> mine, or yours? :)
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[11:19] <toad_> hashtable lookups aren't THAT expensive... hmmm
[11:19] <toad_> hi jay
[11:19] <toad_> gregh: mine :)
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[11:20] <jay> lo toad
[11:20] <toad_> could be just the major-cpu-usage-caused-by-lots-of-fproxy-requests thing
[11:20] <toad_> i've heard reports of that since ages
[11:20] <toad_> so that's probably it
[11:21] <toad_> so i'll commit the fixes anyway
[11:33] <matahari> hello. i am trying to set up a private network of nodes to make it easier to test stuff. is there a minimum number of nodes you need? i was using just two and getting RNF errors.
[11:36] <Iakin5> toad, the three heaviest object allocators in the JVM right now is Continous.add() (diags), a LinkedList.add() in QueueManager and then the BigInt ops in routing..
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[11:36] <toad_> ok
[11:36] <toad_> what are the heaviest diags?
[11:36] <Iakin5> ..they allocate just about equally many objects..
[11:36] <toad_> PRI 25/08/2004 16:46:36.070 (freenet.node.QueueManager, Keep-alive message sende
[11:36] <toad_> r, NORMAL): Queue run took 275053
[11:36] <Iakin5> (shortlived objects that is)
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[11:43] <Iakin5> toad: tickerDelay, jobsExecuted, messageSendQueueSize and messageSendTimeTrailerChunk I think
[11:45] <toad_> i thought that may have changed recently with queueing?
[11:46] <toad_> you should check
[11:47] <Iakin5> That was recent data..
[11:47] <Iakin5> The new thing is that LinkedList.add() has surfaced ;)
[11:47] <toad_> hmmm
[11:48] <Iakin5> and _that_ is definitely due to queueing ;)
[11:48] <toad_> okay, which one is it?
[11:48] <Iakin5> Your two nested loops?
[11:48] <Iakin5> :)
[11:48] <Iakin5> A wild guess..
[11:48] <toad_> which linkedlist.add?
[11:48] <toad_> there isn't one in the loops
[11:48] <toad_> there is one for expiry
[11:51] <Iakin5> myRequests.add(qe);
[11:51] * Sugadude (~Sugadude@207-36-86-132.ptr.primarydns.com) has joined #freenet
[11:51] <Iakin5> ..it is not within those loops though..
[11:51] <Iakin5> nodes.add(new NodeElement(ph, timeToSendWindow));
[11:52] <Iakin5> another one.. not inside the nested loops either though..
[11:53] <Iakin5> My 'requestsQueued' has shows a mean value of between 60 and 100..
[11:53] <toad_> hmmm
[11:54] <cbreak> mine averages around 9
[11:54] <Iakin5> So each loop creates at least so many obects.. and the queue is run something like 400 times / minute at my node
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[11:55] <Iakin5> -> (2 to 3)*60*8 LinkedList.add():s per second
[11:55] <Iakin5> ~1000/second
[11:56] <Iakin5> ...when counting it low ;)
[11:56] * matahari (~matahari@munyoo.cs.mu.OZ.AU) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[11:57] <ejhuff> clock issues (mentioned 2 hours ago): did you try setting ntpd to slew mode? Running freenet, I was getting frequent clock steps of +/- a few seconds. Now it slews back and forth but doesn't finish slewing one way before starting back the other.
[11:57] <Iakin5> toad: still no idea about these:?
[11:57] <Iakin5> Aug 25, 2004 6:02:47 PM (freenet.node.ds.FSDataStoreElement$KeyInputStreamImpl, Finalizer, ERROR): Please close() me manually in finalizer: Key: 24b32ed65c0cfc31aea51b8a95f558955274a188140302 Buffer: freenet.fs.dir.NativeFSDirectory$ExternalNativeBuffer@79a6b0:0x1 : 24b32ed65c0cfc31aea51b8a95f558955274a188140302:temp:1050081:de0d8ab54e150330 New: true ( 0 of 1049900 read)java.lang.IllegalStateException: unclosed
[11:57] <toad_> 4 FProxy requests, max age=479187, min age=293369:
[11:57] <toad_> hmmm
[11:57] <toad_> s
[11:57] <Iakin5> They started along with queueing
[11:57] <toad_> so it doesn't have anything to do with # requests...
[11:58] <ejhuff> bbl
[11:58] <Iakin5> bbl
[12:02] <toad_> hmmm
[12:03] <toad_> cpu usage probably just caused by all the connection openers...
[12:03] <toad_> if i come back in an hour or two it may have settled down
[12:03] <toad_> bbiab
[12:06] * toad_ hmmmm
[12:06] <toad_> also some cpu profiling would probably be a good idea
[12:06] <toad_> anyway bbl
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[12:24] * toad_ has an idea for major optimizations of queueing
[12:24] <toad_> will implement later
[12:28] <hirvox> how about upping lastGoodBuild for a change?-)
[12:28] <toad_> good idea
[12:28] <toad_> i haven't been running unstable much lately
[12:28] <cbreak> I still have two 60158...
[12:31] <Iakin> No.. please dont up lastGoodBuild yet
[12:31] <Iakin> Not until the new issues has been fixed
[12:31] <toad_> okay, got a plan
[12:31] <Iakin> good!
[12:31] <Iakin> :)
[12:31] <toad_> should be significantly cheaper than the current
[12:32] * Iakin ordered a new 300Gb disk today..
[12:32] <toad_> not quite n steps, but not n*m any more anyway (n=requests,m=nodes)
[12:32] <KenMan> daaang, IDE ?
[12:32] <Iakin> ..need more space for freenet data :)
[12:32] <Iakin> Yup.. a SATA DiamonMax 10..
[12:32] <Iakin> 300Gig, 16 meg cache and NCQ
[12:32] <toad_> making use of the existing sorted estimates... will also reduce object churn
[12:33] <Iakin> (for which I dont have a controller though)
[12:33] <toad_> Iakin: nice
[12:33] <toad_> they're not available here yet iirc..
[12:33] <Iakin> Heh.. well.. I was initially looking for the new Seagate disks..
[12:33] <toad_> maybe when i have some money i'll get one... it'd be cheaper than going for scsi
[12:33] <Iakin> but they seem to no be available here yet..
[12:34] <Iakin> I am pretty much out of diskspace everywhere right now
[12:34] <toad_> and almost as fast (well it would be if it was 10k rpm anyway :) ) - NCQ is as fast as SCSI
[12:35] <toad_> okay, bbl
[12:35] <toad_> when i come back i will implement the queueing speedup
[12:36] <toad_> hopefully node will have settled cpu-wise by then...
[13:23] <hobx_> "I set up a test network with two nodes, and when I tried to insert with HTL 20 I got RouteNotFound"
[13:23] <hobx_> hmm...
[13:24] <KenMan> i can't figure for the life of me what could be wrong ?!!
[13:24] <jay> frost-flamewarz, "Can't someone in the right place at the right time gather a couple of crackheads in the neighborhood and 'reprogram' them to assasinate both Bush and Kerry"
[13:24] <jay> sounds reliable to me
[13:25] <KenMan> but then who would we blame the economy on, and education, and terrorism, and ... all those things that are solely and completely due to one man's actions.
[13:25] <vsalento> off topic question: I get I/O error when reading from my 240G external usb-disk... is the disk broken or can it be software bug (linux 2.6.7)?
[13:25] <jay> KenMan: prolly an angry kid
[13:26] <jay> vsalento: my comment on crackheads was on topic ;)
[13:26] <jay> vsalento: my first guess would be software
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[13:27] <jay> id try it on windows actually
[13:27] <vsalento> i use reiserfs so windows is out of question
[13:27] <jay> howso?
[13:28] <vsalento> the problem is that if I unmount the disk then it is possible that I cannot remount it if even one of the superblocks is not accessible
[13:28] <vsalento> I don't want install any odd support for reiserfs for windows...
[13:29] <jay> i see
[13:29] <vsalento> luckily I have md5sums for 90% of files on the disk... so if I can salvage the data somehow I can verify whether there are errors
[13:30] <jay> you can't even pull data off of it right now?
[13:30] <vsalento> but I'd like to know whether the disk is really broken and whether I can return it and get a new one ... and since SMART doesn't work for external disks I cannot get any real data about it
[13:31] <vsalento> well I can... but don't have enough free space where to put 200GB+ of data
[13:31] <jay> the best way to determine that it's linux causing problems for hardware is to try it under windows or another kernel build
[13:32] <jay> but for relatively devices linux is always a little behind the curve
[13:32] <jay> err relatively *new* devices
[13:32] <jay> vsalento: heh.. not sure what you can do in this case
[13:33] <vsalento> well I'm going to build newest kernel and try that... and there aren't anything *extremely* important stuff on the disk... (I'm currently backing up everything important on the same computer) :)
[13:35] <jay> i actually have an install of XP called "Garbage XP" that i use for all kinds of perhaps damaging tests
[13:35] <vsalento> I just hope the problem is in software since if it is hw problem I need to get somewhere a empty 260GB disk where I can copy partition dump from that
[13:35] <jay> so i don't ruin the one i use for professional reasons
[13:35] <jay> vsalento: yeah that's rough
[13:36] <jay> what about 1,000 cd's?
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[13:36] <jay> eheh
[13:36] <vsalento> I just don't understand why reiserfs can't work if there are bad blocks on the device... of course those are rare but still it shouldn't decline to mount the disk
[13:36] * sanity_ (~ian@81-178-115-22.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[13:37] <jay> i still use ext3 on my boxen
[13:37] <vsalento> cd's don't work... I need to take partition dump so that I can mount it and fix superblocks from that... reiserfsck breaks things if there are bad sectors on the disk
[13:37] <vsalento> I should too :(
[13:38] <jay> i was joking about the cd's ;)
[13:38] <vsalento> alright :)
[13:38] <jay> ive heard varying reports on reiserfs.. some good some bad
[13:38] <jay> your problem might have nothing to do specifically with the file system tho
[13:39] <vsalento> one advice: NEVER use it on external disks... I have read too much problems about that after I filled the disk
[13:39] <jay> ah
[13:39] <jay> new advice
[13:39] <jay> ive only seen it used on internal hard drives
[13:39] <jay> seen/heard
[13:40] <vsalento> well I have used it for that purpose and when I got that external disk I didn't think that it would cause any trouble... sure I was wrong
[13:41] <jay> heh life is learning
[13:42] <jay> im embarrassed to think of all the stuff i've learned after the fact
[13:43] <vsalento> also 240GB + USB 1.1 (12 Mbit/s) is not good combination... took 3 days to calculate md5sums for every file on disk. And it seems I need to do it again.
[13:44] <jay> ouch
[13:44] * jay rubs his forehead
[13:44] <jay> that sucks
[13:46] <jay> brb
[13:59] <jay> freenet:CHK@fqzSENHu0DyTCPG5iayUSe31hakLAwI,TtbnXDMGw6ZxzzJr1LcVdA/JerkeyBoys-AngryCamperDad.mp3 (unstable)
[14:10] <Redb3ard> heh
[14:10] <Redb3ard> really do need a freenet:// prefix for URLs
[14:11] <Redb3ard> anyway to hack mozilla to accept that?
[14:13] <jay> yes since it's the protocol
[14:14] <jay> a mozilla plug-in over FCP would be the hack
[14:14] <jay> nsapi i would guess
[14:17] <jay> perhaps it should be fcp:// actually
[14:31] <Redb3ard> well, whatever
[14:31] <Redb3ard> ;)
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[14:48] <toad_> [OT] reiserfs has always worked well for me... but i've never used it on external disks...
[14:49] <toad_> [OT] and yes you do need a partition dump
[14:49] <toad_> [OT] <vsalento> also 240GB + USB 1.1 (12 Mbit/s) is not good combination... took 3 days to calculate md5sums for every file on disk. And it seems I need to do it again. - eeeeeeeek! USB 1.1 mass storage! insane...
[14:50] <toad_> jay: legal to download?
[14:50] <toad_> jay: freenet:<key> if the browser uses FCP to a prespecified node, or has an integrated node (!!), etc
[14:51] <toad_> jay: fcp://127.0.0.1:7841/KSK@gpl.txt if it's over FCP to a foreign server
[14:51] <toad_> but ian has a number of good reasons why we don't want to require a protocol plugin
[14:51] <toad_> the main one being that we'd need to ensure that all the major browsers supported it
[14:52] <cbreak> links, links, links!
[14:53] <toad_> links, lynx, konqueror, mozilla (firefox, mozilla, etc etc), Opera, Internet Exploder, that really small browser, etc etc...
[14:53] <toad_> plus we have to do our own filtering ANYWAY
[14:53] <toad_> so having the browser work over FCP would be a mixed blessing
[14:54] <toad_> as we'd have to provide the filter in FCP
[14:55] <cbreak> that would prevent the unmodified transfer of HTML Documents over freenet.
[14:55] <toad_> cbreak: no it wouldn't
[14:55] <toad_> of course you could turn it off
[14:55] <toad_> but we can't rely on each browser plugin having its own filter
[14:56] <cbreak> there is fproxy. so no need for anything different.
[14:56] <toad_> cbreak: yes and if you'
[14:56] <toad_> re using fproxy...?
[14:57] <toad_> what's the point of a protocol helper plugin?
[14:57] <cbreak> there is no need for anything new, I think :)
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[15:01] <jay> jay: legal? not sure
[15:01] <jay> oops
[15:01] <jay> toad_: not sure
[15:02] <jay> toad_: a plugin could do away with fproxy
[15:02] * Sugadude (~Sugadude@207-36-86-132.ptr.primarydns.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[15:02] <toad_> jay: a plugin maintained for each browser, installed by the user if they reinstall the browser, and using a filter in the node via FCP?
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[15:03] <jay> toad_: that's the idea
[15:03] <jay> it's not the only one
[15:03] <jay> how hard is it to write a plug in that's supported by the major web browsers?
[15:04] <jay> don't they use a standard api or something..
[15:04] <toad_> the sort of people that run freenet use nonstandard web browsers more than most
[15:04] <cbreak> what is the point in a platform independant freenet in java, if it only completely works with major browsers?
[15:04] <jay> cbreak: if all browsers supported the same plug-in api then it would work in all of them
[15:05] <jay> but i haven't done nsapi programming in many years
[15:05] <jay> do they all support something like NSAPI?
[15:05] <cbreak> there are some browsers, that do not seem to support plugins.
[15:05] <jay> like?
[15:05] <jay> lynx?
[15:05] <cbreak> links
[15:06] <cbreak> mine supports some kind of NSBundle
[15:06] <jay> yeah lynx doesn't support Flash either
[15:06] <jay> that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a flash plug in
[15:06] <toad_> you can build plugins for lynx and links reasonably easily
[15:06] <cbreak> Firebird seems to support XSI
[15:06] <toad_> i believe konqueror now support netscape plugins
[15:07] <vsalento> toad_: USB 1.1 mass storage! insane... - my server only has USB 1.1 support and I needed more hd space so there were not much options
[15:07] <jay> toad_: in kde i can write an ioslave and use freenet:// url's in konq without a plugin
[15:07] <jay> toad_: that's what kio_freenet is
[15:07] <cbreak> vsalento: Firewire?
[15:08] <vsalento> not supported in that computer although the external disk would support it
[15:08] <jay> toad_: konq does indeed support ns plugins
[15:09] <vsalento> I could replace the second etherner card with either firewire/usb 2.0 card and get ethernet controller that uses either firewire/usb and then plug the disk to that ... maybe that could work
[15:10] <vsalento> the problem is that my epia mini-itx box only has space for one pci-card/hd drive
[15:11] <cbreak> there are external Ethernet HDs. (More or less a file server en miniature)
[15:15] <vsalento> cbreak: yes there are but they are expensive... home-build solutions are more cheaper
[15:15] <cbreak> yes :)
[15:33] <cbreak> still no fcpputsite in the new fcptools. Why was it removed?
[15:34] <jay> cbreak: i haven't retro-fitted it with the new fcplib yet
[15:34] <jay> cbreak: i didn't write the old putsite either
[15:34] <cbreak> ah, ok :)
[15:34] <jay> cbreak: i likely won't get to it until i finish fcpget completely
[15:35] <jay> then ill do putsite around fcplib 1.0
[15:35] <jay> and then build something else..
[15:36] <toad_> hmmm
[15:36] <toad_> queue run is taking only a couple of seconds mostly now...
[15:36] <toad_> but cpu usage is still 100%
[15:36] <toad_> hmmm
[15:36] <toad_> well, not mostly
[15:36] <toad_> peak
[15:43] <hobx_> wtf is it about nerds that they want to play lawyer and think that the law is some sort of game about finding loop holes.
[15:44] <cbreak> it isn't?
[15:45] <hobx_> no
[15:46] <hobx_> regulations, perhaps. Not law.
[15:46] <cbreak> It seems most lawyers have not noticed that... :)
[15:47] <hobx_> I'm talking about "I'll encrypt my data with rot13 encoding and then the police can't read it without breaking the DMCA" type stupidities
[15:47] <hobx_> Or "I'll have the software encrypt what I store on my computer and then claim I couldn't know what it was"
[15:48] <vsalento> well although some might write that I don't think they really consider doing that in real situation
[15:49] <vsalento> when people are just talking they say stupid things... not everyone would act like that
[15:50] <cbreak> you should be able to claim you have forgotten the decryption key, or you just don't want to tell... (which may still cause problems...)
[15:51] <vsalento> there are laws at least in UK where you go to jail if you cannot remember the decryption key (if I remember correctly)
[15:52] <cbreak> yes.
[15:54] <vsalento> I'll try new kernel so have to part... brb.
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[15:58] <jay> he's talking about the Dev list
[15:58] <jay> err Tech actually & chat
[15:59] <jay> and the anti riaa nonsensical discussion
[15:59] <jay> Newsbyte: u around?
[15:59] * jay kicks iip_i2p
[16:01] <toad_> heh
[16:01] <jay> hobx: i wouldn't mind it if it didn't bleed over into tech from chat
[16:02] <toad_> first to fix the SendData NPE... if possible...
[16:03] * toad_ has a web site hosted on this PC, and has registered a domain for mum... for a long time the ISP explicitly disallowed such things. Life has fractionally improved :)
[16:03] <jay> accessable from port 80?
[16:04] <jay> i have to run my local one on 81 or the isp shuts me down
[16:04] <toad_> [OT] hobx: by the above you mean that you think freenet's crypto is pointless and that freenet is probably illegal without any new laws being needed? ;)
[16:04] <jay> if i get an outside request
[16:04] <toad_> jay: my ISP's AUP says you must run them on the standard ports
[16:05] <toad_> and if the bandwidth is excessive they'll contact you
[16:05] <jay> interesting
[16:05] <toad_> and you need to keep them up to date
[16:05] <toad_> w.r.t. security
[16:05] <toad_> but you are allowed to run servers! yay!
[16:05] <jay> i do that anyway but 'coptimum online' doesn't care
[16:10] <hobx_> Obviously crypto is useful. But I find the whole encrypt locally to keep myself ignorant, based on some half-assed amature reading of the law pretty sad.
[16:11] <toad_> you mean what newsbyte says?
[16:11] <toad_> don't you generalize it to plausible deniability is worthless, freenet carries child porn, shut down your node and abandon hope?
[16:14] <hobx_> I don't know the law exactly, but hopefully the fact that it was a common service and somebody else put it there would mean one wouldn't go straight to jail.
[16:14] <toad_> hopefully so
[16:14] <hobx_> But I don't think a court would hesitate to say "censor these keys or else"
[16:14] <gregh> of course you can't prove that somebody *else* put it there
[16:14] <toad_> sure, and a court wouldn't hesitate to require you to run a special app to delete them if necessary
[16:15] <toad_> court orders can ask for just about anything
[16:15] <hobx_> gregh: Happily the burden of proof isn't on the defendent yet.
[16:15] <gregh> well, true.
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[16:16] <hobx_> If you feel like arguing with "newsbyte" you can point out that all the "anti-circumvention" laws make exceptions for law enforcement purposes.
[16:19] <toad_> hobx: which don't apply to the RIAA, correct?
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[16:24] <cbreak> In germany it was revealed, that the GVU (An industry society for "copyright") is often used to examine confiscated CDs...
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[16:26] <toad_> cbreak: huh?
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[16:28] <cbreak> they seem to be allowed to examine confiscated CDs, as an expert.
[16:29] <jay> newsbytes laws border on insanity
[16:29] <jay> his ideas even
[16:30] <jay> trying to circumvent specific laws in existance is suicide imo
[16:30] <toad_> I would like to install Freenet on my computer but I do not have Internet
[16:30] <toad_> anymore so I cannot download it. Could you please, tell me how I could
[16:30] <toad_> download it. Could you send me a CD so I could install it? I would
[16:30] <toad_> appreciate an awnser.
[16:30] <toad_> hrrm
[16:30] <toad_> maybe i should have bounced that to myself only
[16:30] <vsalento> no luck with new kernel... I started running badblocks on the disk and at least there are 80 bad sectors starting from sector 5881 ... not nice :(
[16:30] <toad_> it would have been considerably kinder...
[16:30] <toad_> oh well
[16:30] <hobx_> brightened my day
[16:31] <hobx_> recommend RFC1149
[16:31] <jay> toad_: heh
[16:32] <cbreak> somehow I don't think this person would have much joy with a Freenet CD Verson without net connection... (Even if one with also often RNFs...)
[16:32] <hobx_> hmm
[16:32] <toad_> hobx: is that the one on carrier pigeon IP?
[16:32] <jay> yeah
[16:32] <hobx_> I say why not?
[16:33] <hobx_> Take the couple of megs of data that people can get, put it on the disk with the node.
[16:33] <hobx_> I bet his experience will be ten times better than anybody elses.
[16:34] <jay> yeah and hardcode the htl @ 0
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[16:35] <cbreak> hmm... that would simplyfy routing by some magnitudes...
[16:36] <KenMan> so FreeNet should migrate into the CD publication business then ?? a monthly subscription or something ? to tide us over until the network works ?
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[16:36] <toad_> KenMan: even better
[16:36] <hobx_> Ever considered downloading the five reachable pages and putting them in the distribution?
[16:36] <toad_> steganographic transport via dead letter boxes with CD-Rs in them
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[16:36] <hobx_> You could claim O(1) scalability
[16:37] <toad_> hmmm
[16:38] <cbreak> hmm... O(log(n))? (Seek time in a sorted DS)
[16:38] <toad_> why is it still using 100% cpu?
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[16:41] <hobx_> cbreak: DS is a hashtable
[16:41] <hobx_> toad_: Because you put an infinite loop in there somewhere.
[16:41] <cbreak> hmm... Ok... :)
[16:41] <hobx_> (you asked)
[16:41] <toad_> hobx_: a tree can be faster than a hashtable, if the hashtable doesn't fit into RAM
[16:41] <toad_> or even if it doesn't fit into cache sometimes
[16:42] <hobx_> Did I say otherwise?
[16:42] <toad_> i thought there was an infinite loop...
[16:42] <toad_> ah
[16:43] <KenMan> CHOO
[16:43] <Iakin> toad: Or of the hashCode methods are lousy
[16:43] <Iakin> hit ctrl-break a couple of times to see where the code is executing
[16:43] <KenMan> iakin lousy, or just "so damned great that we use it ALL the time" ??
[16:44] <Iakin> ?
[16:44] <KenMan> ;)
[16:45] <toad_> at freenet.support.LoggerHook.log(LoggerHook.java:76)
[16:45] <toad_> at freenet.node.StateChain.received(StateChain.java:205)
[16:45] <toad_> at freenet.node.StateChain.received(StateChain.java:61)
[16:45] <toad_> - locked <0x4913db90> (a freenet.node.StateChain)
[16:45] <toad_> at freenet.node.StateChainManagingMessageHandler$ChainContainer.run(Stat
[16:45] <toad_> eChainManagingMessageHandler.java:332)
[16:45] <toad_> - locked <0x4913db90> (a freenet.node.StateChain)
[16:45] <toad_> at freenet.node.StateChainManagingMessageHandler$ChainContainer.received
[16:45] <toad_> (StateChainManagingMessageHandler.java:285)
[16:45] <toad_> how can that be using 40% of the cpu usage?
[16:46] <toad_> hmmm
[16:46] <toad_> i can't attach debugger to a running java app unless i had remote debugging on, right?
[16:46] <Redb3ard> bah
[16:47] <hobx_> It wouldn't surprise me at all if log() was taking 40% CPU. Last I saw the code you had put it an insane number of log statements.
[16:47] <toad_> hmm, this was doReschedule()...
[16:47] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) Quit ("bbl")
[16:47] <toad_> hobx_: sure but why does this particular thread ..?
[16:47] <toad_> there are loads of others and they're all logging stuff
[16:47] <Iakin> toad: right
[16:48] <toad_> hmmm
[16:48] <toad_> the last 2 stack dumps have this thread in ConnectionOpenerManager.rescheduleNow()
[16:48] <toad_> but before that it was still using tons of CPU
[16:48] <toad_> and it was in StateChain.received...
[16:48] <toad_> ah, and doReschedule
[16:49] <toad_> doReschedule, statechainsomething, statechainsomething, doreschedule, doreschedule
[16:49] <toad_> okay, so it's doReschedule that's the problem...
[16:50] <toad_> possibly because of races that cause excessive recalculation...
[16:50] <cbreak> is there a way to sample a java application to find out where the most time is spent? (I have one for C/...)
[16:52] <toad_> yes
[16:53] <toad_> cpu profiling either is difficult to interpret because it includes I/O, blocking and so on, or it takes so much overhead as to make the results grossly unrealistic, though
[16:54] <toad_> bbl
[17:05] <KenMan> holy crap, sven's low-bw node stats on devl indicate RNFs due to looped requests are 10x more common than due to route exhaustion (RNF) !!
[17:06] <KenMan> it is just the opposite here , with a 'high bw' node (18K/s outbound)
[17:06] <KenMan> of course, he was on unstable and I'm on stable, so it's not fair to compare
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[18:04] * toad_ bac
[18:04] <toad_> k
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[18:09] <puphone> Quiet in here
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[18:15] -dmwaters- (global notice) Hi all! it appears that we're having problems with one of our main rotation servers. I apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for your patience.
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[18:36] -NickServ- This nickname is owned by someone else
[18:36] -NickServ- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[18:36] -ChanServ- [#freenet] This is the FreeNet channel (http://freenet.sourceforge.net)
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[18:36] <hobx> Man, I wanted to buy some W ketchupm but it costs 63 bucks to have it shipped here
[18:37] <hobx> Which I would pay, but I bet UPS is owned by some nasyu libral!
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[18:39] <puphone_> You want ketchup?
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[18:40] <KenMan> he wants 'W' brand ketchup, not that Kerry brand, apparently.
[18:41] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) Quit ()
[18:41] <cbreak> Try Heinz Ketchup, it's one of the best.
[18:42] <KenMan> that's the Kerry brand.
[18:42] <cbreak> it is?
[18:42] <KenMan> yeah, john kerry's wife owns it.
[18:42] <cbreak> so kerry is into ketchup. better than bush into oil :) (No reason to start a war...)
[18:43] <KenMan> he specifically asked for 'W' ketchupm , which must be the Bush brand.
[18:43] <KenMan> I've never even heard of it, so it MUST be good.
[18:44] <cbreak> interesting asumption.
[18:45] <KenMan> or maybe it is some kind of liquor, after all, this *is* hobx asking...
[18:47] * KenMan finds it hard to believe that any product of high quality cannot be had in Sweden...
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[19:01] <KenMan> uh oh, John Ashcroft is on the let's kill P2P rampage : as seen on slashdot.org
[19:01] <cbreak> he's the one who wanted to hide that statue, isn't it?
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[19:03] <KenMan> I don't know, probably. Anyway, this involved the DirectConnect network - that's not Kazaa, right ? Kazaa=FastTrack I think...
[19:03] <cbreak> DirectCOnnect is over IRC, I think.
[19:04] <cbreak> mostly with XDCC servers. I tried that once. Even longer queues than freenet...
[19:05] <KenMan> Each of the five raided DirectConnect hubs contained 40 *petabytes* of data !! that's a million gigabytes !
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[19:05] <cbreak> I wonder how they count that.
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[19:06] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[19:06] <KenMan> but then , they are quoting Ashcroft, so perhaps he really meant kilobytes. "Yeah, terrorists and drug dealers work in kilos. That's what I meant to say!"
[19:06] <cbreak> Multiply connected leechers with biggest HD Size maybe...
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[19:07] <KenMan> ah, yes. That would be typically sneaky if they counted all the peers connected to the hubs...
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[19:07] <KenMan> toad, would you consider banning sanity's connection ? oh, wait - probably not...
[19:08] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) has joined #freenet
[19:10] <KenMan> http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=internetNews&storyID=6070156§ion=news
[19:15] <salahx> Well looks liek DirectConnect isn't safe anymore either
[19:16] <cbreak> somehow I doubt they realy mean 40 Petabytes.
[19:16] <Sugadude> Maybe they mean PITA Bytes. ;)
[19:16] <cbreak> Pico?
[19:17] <salahx> YEah, I call BS on that one
[19:17] <Sugadude> PITA (adj.): Pain In The Ass
[19:17] <salahx> I don't think every headdrive in the US Miliary combined would be 40 Petabytes
[19:17] <cbreak> maybe they encoded all movies in ... uhm... something REALY inefficient
[19:18] <Sugadude> 1GB of chaff for every byte?
[19:19] <cbreak> Pico as in 10^-12 :)
[19:20] <Sugadude> Bytes are measured in binary products, so it's Pici. :)
[19:20] <cbreak> hmm...
[19:21] <cbreak> Somehow I doubt anyone had the need to express Pici Bytes before...
[19:21] <salahx> hehe
[19:22] <salahx> Most people woudl figure Freenet sroage is in pedobytes....
[19:23] <cbreak> no comment on that one...
[19:23] <salahx> Looks like it won't be long until the first capital copyright infiringmentt case...
[19:23] <Sugadude> capital==death?
[19:24] <salahx> YEp
[19:25] <cbreak> I wonder if they have no worse problems than copyright infrigment in the US...
[19:26] <salahx> Sure, itss just out kleaders have their priorties mized up
[19:26] <Sugadude> *cough* Bush, Kerry, foreach(Person politician in Congress+Senate) *cought*
[19:37] <KenMan> it's a good thing that FreeNet isn't used for copyright violations, that would just attract the kind of reputation we don't need.
[19:37] <cbreak> who knows... :)
[19:37] <KenMan> well, i suppose it could be, but I don't believe it is.
[19:38] * Sugadude wonders where KenMan's head is...
[19:38] <Sugadude> Or eyes, or node.
[19:38] <cbreak> I think it is... And I have good reason to think so :)
[19:38] <KenMan> I'm just stating my position publicly.
[19:40] <Sugadude> Yeah, and KaZaA is being used to distribute legal content. :)
[19:40] <KenMan> no, i know that one is probably the most popular for (C) violations.
[19:40] <salahx> well I've never downlaod any illegal content so I wouldn't know if there is any...
[19:41] <cbreak> :)
[19:41] <salahx> In fact, given the way Freenet owrks, the data might not even exist until you attemtp to retrieve it
[19:42] <Sugadude> Nah, it was there before, but you might have caused it to be on a node by requesting it. Kind of like plating evidence.
[19:43] <cbreak> hmm... If the keyfiles in the datastore are statisticaly independent from the content...
[19:43] <KenMan> and i thought perhaps salahx was suggesting a permanent private store that could insert files on demand...
[19:44] <salahx> Acutlaly such an idea has floated around, called FRUIT
[19:45] <cbreak> non expiring freenet content?
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[19:46] <salahx> yeah
[19:46] <Sugadude> It has been implemented twice: Frazaa and Frost.
[19:46] <salahx> THe problem, of course, is "Routing doesn't work"
[19:47] <Sugadude> And data has to be requested by more that one person to propagate through the network.
[19:47] <cbreak> The way frost intends to solve the problem would work. Well... If it would work...
[19:48] <salahx> right, by reuqesting the file from people you;ve amrked as GOOD
[19:48] <cbreak> (Frost inserts seem to stop after a few percents...)
[19:48] <Sugadude> It works, if you wait long enough and the person doesn't give up too soon. :/
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[19:50] <cbreak> downloading still has problems... (bad blocks, maybe...)
[19:50] <salahx> Bad blocks ?
[19:51] <Sugadude> That has been fixed a long time ago, AFAIK. It was because of Frost's brain-fucked FEC implementation.
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[19:51] <salahx> The FEC stuff will make your head spin though
[19:51] <cbreak> files sometimes are decoded with mistakes. FProxy decodes without mistakes.
[19:53] <salahx> I'd love tio implement a C FEC en/de-coder but the formula makes my head spin
[19:53] <Sugadude> I think there is already a C FEC implmentation by Onion Networks.
[19:54] <Sugadude> (Newer Freenet versions use it)
[19:54] <salahx> yeah but its JNI
[19:55] <Sugadude> So? It might be abstracted to have encodeFec() and decodeFec().
[19:55] <salahx> maybe I Should take a look
[19:57] <Sugadude> Besides transliterating something from Java to C shouldn't be too hard, even without understanding the fomulas involved.
[19:59] <toad__> <cbreak> so kerry is into ketchup. better than bush into oil :) (No reason to start a war...) - LOL
[20:00] <Sugadude> Hmm, ketchup, that reminds me, I'm hungry.
[20:00] <toad__> <cbreak> mostly with XDCC servers. I tried that once. Even longer queues than freenet... - hey, freenet doesn't queue, well not like other p2ps. that's why it's so slow ;)
[20:01] <toad__> most classical P2Ps don't come anywhere close to freenet's latency
[20:01] <toad__> we use it differently, of course
[20:02] <Sugadude> What I hated about DC is that you needed to share huge amounts of data just to connect to a server.
[20:02] <toad__> <salahx> Looks like it won't be long until the first capital copyright infiringmentt case... - huh?
[20:03] <toad__> I happen to know for certain that Co$ copyright content is on freenet
[20:03] <toad__> I know that because I downloaded some of it
[20:03] <toad__> COME AND GET ME YOU IDIOTS!
[20:04] <Sugadude> toad__: Is that an invitation, because you know I'd be more than willing to do it. ;)
[20:04] <salahx> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/25/2230211&tid=99&tid=103&tid=95&tid=1
[20:05] * thelema (~thelema@adsl-65-65-203-44.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:05] <toad__> right, 1-100GB
[20:05] <toad__> that's not especially large
[20:06] <Sugadude> It is when you have a 800MB HD. :/
[20:07] * toad__ has spent some hours getting http://amphibian.dyndns.org/ and http://simechoes.org/ working. They're hosted locally. My ISP lets me do this, finally. This will save ?60/annum we pay to them, and let us have infinite space. :) Just in case you were wondering.
[20:07] <mikeDOTd> . o O ( <Sugadude> i run my datastore on a floppy disk )
[20:07] <toad__> the latter is for a friend
[20:07] <toad__> lol
[20:07] <toad__> now, where was i?
[20:07] <toad__> ah yes
[20:07] <toad__> CPU usage = 100%...
[20:08] <toad__> even after however many hours...
[20:08] <toad__> and virtually no traffic
[20:08] <toad__> Checkpoint: Check for connections to open 1
[20:08] <toad__> Checkpoint: Opening connection 1
[20:08] <toad__> freenet.interfaces.LocalNIOInterface$ConnectionShell 1
[20:08] <toad__> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 1
[20:08] <toad__> freenet.node.states.data.TrailerWriteCallbackMessage:true:true 1
[20:09] <salahx>
[20:09] <salahx> Class Threads used
[20:09] <salahx> Checkpoint: Opening connection 1
[20:09] <salahx> freenet.interfaces.LocalNIOInterface$ConnectionShell 4
[20:09] <salahx> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 13
[20:09] <salahx> freenet.node.states.data.TrailerWriteCallbackMessage:true:true 10
[20:09] <salahx>
[20:10] <toad__> my point is: ONE THREAD EACH AND IT'S STILL PEGGED !
[20:11] <toad__> and most of it is being used by pid 6007 = 0x1777
[20:11] <toad__> which is, guess what, running doReschedule() :<
[20:12] <cbreak> must be awfully complex, that function...
[20:12] <toad__> hmmm
[20:12] <toad__> mostly it takes 500ms or so
[20:12] <toad__> and since it only runs every few seconds that's not a problem
[20:12] <toad__> but sometimes it takes MINUTES
[20:12] <toad__> or more perhaps
[20:13] <salahx> why so long?
[20:13] <toad__> i'm not exactly sure, i think it ends up recalculating all the estimates on all the nodes for some reason...
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[20:17] <toad__> woah
[20:17] <toad__> the 22:00 to 23:00 log file is 11.3GB
[20:17] <toad__> that must be a record even for me...
[20:37] <toad__> hmmm
[20:37] <toad__> some sort of wierd infinite loop involving rescheduling of COM
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[20:39] <neil-> hi, question all.... is freenet usable as an anonymous p2p network?
[20:40] <neil-> or is the selection still fairly small
[20:40] <cbreak> selection of what?
[20:40] <neil-> mp3's mostly
[20:40] * toad__ hmmm
[20:40] <cbreak> I have seen at least twenty different MP3 files on freenet.
[20:40] <toad__> heh
[20:40] <cbreak> most likely there are more :)
[20:40] <neil-> 20
[20:40] <neil-> hahaha
[20:40] * toad__ restarted, cpu usage is moderate... hmmm...
[20:41] <neil-> seriously though..the selection of files is still small right
[20:41] <cbreak> yes.
[20:42] <cbreak> you may not find what you want.
[20:43] <cbreak> and since you can not search freenet, you may have to post a request on frost... (a message board sw for freenet)
[20:44] <neil-> are there any good anonymous p2p options out there?
[20:44] <cbreak> besides freenet? Maybe entropy, but it is smaller.
[20:44] <toad__> it depends what you mean by anonymous and what you mean by p2p
[20:45] <toad__> you may want to try freenet anyway, it's not what you expect from a "p2p", but a lot of people find it something interesting nonetheless
[20:45] <cbreak> Maybe "Mute" finaly works and "Kast" has been resurected.
[20:47] <toad__> also there's a fair amount of content on Frost, more than on fproxy
[20:48] <toad__> however i cannot help you much if you openly confess to criminal activity on the channel :)
[20:49] <neil-> i guess
[20:49] <neil-> the best source to 'safely' get mp3's
[20:50] <toad__> well have a look, you may find something to keep you on freenet. There are several hundred freesites listed on TFE, many of which are retrievable.
[20:50] <toad__> and Frost reputedly has a lot more files
[20:50] <neil-> frost huh
[20:50] <neil-> have a url about that?
[20:51] <cbreak> jtcfrost.sf.net
[20:51] <toad__> anyone got any of the homepage links or alinks yet?
[20:51] <toad__> neil-: that url, it runs on top of freenet
[20:51] <toad__> provides message boards with searchable file lists
[20:51] <toad__> freenet itself provides mostly a means of "browsing" freenet as if it were part of the WWW
[20:51] <neil-> hmm ok
[20:51] <neil-> does freenet run ok on win32?
[20:52] <toad__> as well as it does on any platform, with minor issues to do with config that you hopefully won't run into
[20:52] <toad__> yay, FIND is about to load... hopefully...
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[21:04] <toad__> bbl
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.