Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:01] <mikeDOTd> hello
[0:02] <ShaunMacPherson> :)
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[4:22] <donmartin> are there any problems with freenet currently? i started my node but cannot access anything. connections are on 0 ...
[4:29] <Iakin5> Show me the first few rows of the routingtable status page
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[4:33] <donmartin> I guess that was a bit too much data for freenode :).
[4:33] <donmartin> okay, here again:
[4:33] <Iakin5> :)
[4:34] <donmartin> Number of known routing nodes1
[4:34] <donmartin> Number of node references0
[4:34] <donmartin> Number of newbie nodes0
[4:34] <donmartin> Number of uncontactable nodes1
[4:34] <donmartin> Contacted and attempted to contact node references0
[4:34] <donmartin> Contacted node references0
[4:34] <donmartin> Contacted newbie node references0
[4:34] <donmartin> Connections with Successful Transfers0
[4:34] <donmartin> Backed off nodes0
[4:34] <Iakin5> ok.. heh
[4:34] <donmartin> Connection Attempts0
[4:34] <donmartin> Successful Connections0
[4:34] <donmartin> does not look good, no ? :(
[4:34] <Iakin5> download a new seednodes.ref
[4:34] <donmartin> i did a ./update.sh
[4:34] <Iakin5> and restart the node
[4:35] <Iakin5> hmm.. I am on windows.. so I don't know what the script is supposed to do really
[4:35] <donmartin> just downloaded 5091 and so on. that was about 30 mins ago ...
[4:35] <Iakin5> try getting the seednodes.ref file manually instead
[4:35] <donmartin> update.sh downloads http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-latest.jar and http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/seednodes.ref.bz2 and checks for a newer http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-ext.jar
[4:36] <Iakin5> try getting the seednodes.ref instead..
[4:36] <Iakin5> maybe the .bz2 is out of date or something
[4:36] <donmartin> thats freenetproject.org/seednodes.ref or /snapshots/freenodes.ref ?
[4:36] <Iakin5> Additionally.. is there any error messages in your log files?
[4:36] <Iakin5> (close to the beginning)
[4:37] <Iakin5> ./snap.../seednodes.ref
[4:39] <donmartin> freenet.log looks good while starting up, then there are some "RouteNotFound Fetching (running) freenet: [...]"
[4:39] <Iakin5> Yea, they result from the same issue
[4:40] <donmartin> are you runnig stable or unstable?
[4:40] <donmartin> stable I guess (seednodes.ref) :)
[4:40] <Iakin5> yup..
[4:41] <donmartin> I also tried unstable half an hour ago with same result, thats why I was wondering
[4:41] <Iakin5> also make sure that the web interface really states v5091 on the first page..
[4:41] <donmartin> ok, seednodes.ref and unpacked from seednodes.ref.bz2 are identical :/
[4:42] <donmartin> web UI greets with 5091 and load of 0%
[4:42] <donmartin> connections are 0 ... sniff ...
[4:43] <Iakin5> is number of known routing nodes still 0 too?
[4:43] <donmartin> no, its still 1
[4:44] <Iakin5> ah, yea
[4:45] <Iakin5> Then I have no idea.. sounds like the node doesn't properly read up the seednodes file
[4:45] <Iakin5> Maybe you could try cranking up the loglevel somewhat
[4:45] <Iakin5> and see if anything results from that
[4:47] <donmartin> i remember that i had some problems on another machine some time ago when the seednodes was bigger than 10 or 15 MB. then I got java.out-of-memory-errors.
[4:47] <donmartin> but this machine is a 2.4 GHz CPU with 1 GB of RAM ... should be enough ...
[4:48] <donmartin> and yet I didn't get any java error
[4:54] <donmartin> yup, thats it :(
[4:54] <donmartin> just took the first 100.000 lines from seednode.ref and threw the rest to /dev/null, started freenet, got 3 connections ...
[4:54] <donmartin> so, is this a bug in freenet or in java ?
[4:57] <Iakin5> donmartin: Java will only use as much memory as you tell it..
[4:57] <Iakin5> it doesn't care about how much there actually is in the machine
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[5:55] <leex-Zzzz> doaodao
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[8:35] <iip_i2p> <mule> wb eyekon :) we have been missing you
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[9:59] <hobx_> Oh happy day!
[10:00] <hobx_> My posting ban has been lifted from Slashdot!
[10:00] * hobx_ waits patiently for the next Apple story
[10:01] <Redb3ard> heh
[10:01] <Redb3ard> how did you get banned?
[10:01] <Redb3ard> you're founding member of the GNAA?
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[10:05] <sanity> worse, he criticised apple
[10:06] <Redb3ard> dont think they ban for that
[10:06] <Redb3ard> mod you into oblivion, maybe
[10:06] <sanity> Redb3ard: either did we
[10:06] <Redb3ard> weird
[10:06] <Redb3ard> im still going for the elusive 5, troll
[10:06] <sanity> Redb3ard: turns out they ban you *if* you are modded into oblivion (which can only happen if some people are modding you up, and some down)
[10:06] <Redb3ard> got a 4,troll and a 5, flamebait though
[10:06] <Redb3ard> ah
[10:07] <Redb3ard> +1 funny can really hurt
[10:07] <Redb3ard> since it doesnt count towards karma
[10:07] <Redb3ard> but lets people mod you back down, which does count
[10:07] <Redb3ard> forget all of them, but there are some weird interactions
[10:08] <Redb3ard> nice how taco breaks moderation, because he wants to discourage joking
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[10:16] <sanity> ./ moderation is a mess, but they aren't exactly receptive to criticism of it
[10:17] <toad_> of course not :)
[10:19] <toad_> actually i thought that was what meta-moderation was for?
[10:23] <hobx_> Nobody does it.
[10:23] <hobx_> And they have too many mod points, so mm can't keep up anyways.
[10:23] <hobx_> Plus people through them away on dumb shit, like modding down anyone who criticises your particular golden cow.
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[10:24] <hobx_> to be fair, I got a +5 the other day (from home, which wasn't banned) for another post attacking apple. So it seems to be a mood thing.
[10:25] <toad_> heh
[10:25] <toad_> your work address is banned?
[10:26] * toad_ has a friend who has 12 IPs redlined from lambdamoo :)
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[10:33] <Iakin5> toad, seen the recent Queueing-related issues?
[10:33] <Iakin5> DNV's
[10:34] <Iakin5> and 'SendData took effect before sent' or whatever it was?
[10:36] <hobx_> nevertheless is one word... I love english.
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[10:57] <sanity> hobx: that was a good comment re: apple, i might even link to it in my sig
[10:58] <cbreak> url?
[10:59] <KenMan> not much to report with 5092-pre1 ... qph is moderately higher , but otherwise things are about the same. Percent backedOff is maybe a little lower, but not much :( it probably would be better if the qph hadn't risen.
[11:01] <sanity> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=118438&cid=10006334
[11:02] <KenMan> for last 24 hours, requestSuccess=3.3% (1982/60076) routingSuccess=1.8% (942/50578)
[11:03] <sanity> KenMan: that is good, right?
[11:03] <toad_> Iakin5: yeah, looking...
[11:03] <KenMan> sanity: no, it is very comparable to the numbers I had before :( just higher qph means slightly lower success
[11:04] <sanity> ok
[11:04] <cbreak> sanity: That comment contains a few mistakes... :)
[11:04] <toad_> well i don't see why queueing would result in qph rising
[11:04] <sanity> yeah, unstable isn't performing too well for me
[11:04] * interrupt (~chatzilla@64.122.23.213) has joined #freenet
[11:05] <KenMan> i do have somewhat more peers than previously, but i think queueing is just 'filling in the gaps' in regards to mRI...
[11:05] <KenMan> hi toad
[11:05] <KenMan> ill have to upgrade to pre2 soon
[11:05] <toad_> filling in the gaps?
[11:06] <toad_> what is pre2?
[11:06] <KenMan> all that jazz we spoke of in relation to backedOff and % utilization of a single route over time...
[11:07] <KenMan> pre1 is what you gave me friday... or early saturday. I could have played with cvs to get more up to date, but I just let this run...
[11:08] <sanity> cbreak: grammatical, or logical?
[11:08] <KenMan> i do hope things will get better when 5092 is widely deployed . (fingers crossed)
[11:09] <toad_> there are loads of bugs in current CVs
[11:09] <cbreak> sanity: some arguments asume wrong facts. For example the writer seems to exclude the fact, that Apple Users have hacked the DRM a few Times
[11:09] <toad_> S
[11:09] <toad_> as iakin5 has pointed out
[11:10] <KenMan> well, here's another graph, fwiw : http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jkcorson/FreeNet/5092-pre1c.png
[11:10] <KenMan> the low green is my mRIs out, high green is average mRI from routes
[11:12] <cbreak> sanity: Also, the author excludes all other, earlier implementations of drm (CSS, RC, Windows Media, ...) when he speaks of DRM finaly finding adapters.
[11:12] <KenMan> adopters.
[11:12] <cbreak> I am citing the article :P
[11:16] <digger3> is the bandwith limiting broken in 5091?
[11:21] * vsalento (~vsalento@cs136227.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[11:21] <toad_> cbreak: DRM that isn't supported by TC hardware is not an especially serious issue
[11:22] <toad_> and anti-piracy hacks have been around forever
[11:22] * vsalento (~vsalento@cs136227.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
[11:23] <cbreak> yes. But unfortunately TCPA is quite sucessfull... IBM already sold some notebooks with the neccessary chip.
[11:23] <toad_> KenMan: the purple line seems reasonably stable...
[11:23] <toad_> cbreak: it's not used by anything yet though, because you need OS support
[11:23] <toad_> and it's not like writing a driver for a graphics card
[11:24] <cbreak> yes. (I read MS has recently stripped down their "seperate thrusted nexus kernel" for Longhorn :)
[11:27] <toad_> i read all sorts of things. Many of them are immediately rescinded.
[11:27] <toad_> but could you get me a URL?
[11:28] <cbreak> It was in a magazine (the ones made from dead trees). maybe I find something on the topic :)
[11:40] <toad_> yeah well
[11:40] <toad_> probably FUD of one sort of another
[11:41] <cbreak> maybe :)
[11:41] <toad_> you can't have half a TC DRM implementation
[11:41] <toad_> any more than you can have a half-nuclear bomb
[11:42] <sanity_> cbreak: firstly, apple has sued those that have hacked their DRM using the DMCA, and many /.ers defended their actions
[11:43] <toad_> whose?
[11:43] <toad_> apple's?
[11:43] * toad_ notes that the relevant tools are available on Freenet :)
[11:43] <sanity_> cbreak: and Windows Media users are not known for actively defending the DRM functionality of that software. Many apple users are.
[11:44] <cbreak> there are idiots on all platforms :/
[11:45] <toad_> apple users are fanatics. this has been known since the beginning
[11:46] <sanity_> toad: true, what is surprising is that they now seem to dominate /.
[11:46] * sanity_ speaks as an apple user (albeit not a fanatical one)
[11:46] <toad_> well, all users of alternative platforms are often fanatics
[11:47] * sanity is surprised that nobody has followed up that thread on chat
[11:47] <toad_> BUT OSS USERS HAPPEN TO BE RIGHT! :)
[11:47] <cbreak> hmm...
[11:47] <sanity> yeah, although a particularly confusing breed of fanatic is the mac fanatic that was once an OSS fanatic
[11:47] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-240-239.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[11:48] <toad_> sanity: any ideas on how to make operations not take a zillion years on java? the average time is pretty good, but the maximum time is the problem
[11:48] <sanity> what do you mean by "operations"?
[11:48] <toad_> sanity: very confusing yes. Also rather sad considering the war is hotting up nicely.
[11:48] <toad_> subroutines
[11:49] <sanity> ?
[11:49] <sanity> methods?
[11:49] <toad_> yes
[11:49] <toad_> specifically, ConnectionOpenerManager.doReschedule(), and QueueManager.runQueue()
[11:49] <sanity> write the code more efficiently?
[11:49] <toad_> no
[11:49] <toad_> it's not that sort of issue
[11:49] <toad_> i suspect it's some insane locking issue or something
[11:50] * TLF (francisco@77.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[11:50] <sanity> hmm, are there debugging tools to track down deadlocks?
[11:50] <toad_> it's emphatically NOT a problem of sloppy coding in that method - no matter how bad things are, it should not take THREE MINUTES to process the queue!
[11:50] * g4lt-ii (~galt@134.50.70.28) has joined #freenet
[11:50] <sanity> anyway, i gotta run, i am meeting a friend
[11:50] <toad_> i don't think it's a deadlock. It could be a livelock.
[11:50] <toad_> heh
[11:50] <toad_> seeya
[11:50] <sanity> ok#
[11:50] <sanity> post to devl, i will respond there
[11:52] * galt (~galt@134.50.70.28) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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[12:00] * verl (~verlverl@h165n2fls33o877.telia.com) Quit ()
[12:02] <toad_> brb
[12:12] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) has joined #FreeNet
[12:21] * ninja_ (im10ninjas@82-133-110-130.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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[12:27] * Iakin thinks some of toads new diag variables is counted upon _a lot_ of times
[12:31] <toad_> Iakin: :|
[12:31] <toad_> what are your typical values?
[12:31] <toad_> do you see thread overload? significantly increased CPU usage?
[12:37] * mikeDOTd_ (~mikedotd@plutonium.nexthop.net) has joined #freenet
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[12:41] * verl (~verlverl@h165n2fls33o877.telia.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[12:43] <Redb3ard> well, my stupid wifi card went nuts for nearly 8 minutes
[12:43] <Redb3ard> and freenode still didnt drop me
[12:43] <Redb3ard> thats just plain funky
[12:43] <Iakin5> toad:
[12:43] <Iakin5> Somewhat more CPU.. not much though
[12:44] <Iakin5> Not much more thread usage either..
[12:44] <Iakin5> Just very many of error-log messages
[12:44] <Iakin5> 'Please close() me manually'
[12:44] <Iakin5> 'Got DNV...'
[12:45] <Iakin5> And then the usual bunch..
[12:45] <Iakin5> The close() and DNV messages are new since queueing..
[12:45] * verl (~verlverl@h165n2fls33o877.telia.com) has joined #freenet
[12:51] <toad_> hmmm
[12:51] <toad_> if we have an insert at htl 1
[12:51] <toad_> and we pass it on at htl 1
[12:51] <toad_> and the target passes it on at htl 1
[12:51] <toad_> and the target then times out
[12:51] <toad_> by the time the reply comes back from the target, we will also have timed out
[12:52] <toad_> bit of a fundamental problem with timeouts and htl really.. :(
[12:55] <cbreak> wasn't there a sugestion to replace htl with ttl?
[13:02] <toad_> bbl
[13:03] <Redb3ard> htl/ttl seem like primitive ways to deal with the problem
[13:03] <Redb3ard> but barring AI packets that can recognize when its just time to give it up and croak, i have nothing better to offer
[13:03] <cbreak> hmm... IP uses htl I think.
[13:05] <Redb3ard> yeh, dont like it there either
[13:06] <cbreak> If there was a way to determine that you can't get nearer to the destination, one could use that...
[13:06] <Redb3ard> ok, the problem isnt quite as bad as i make it out
[13:06] <Redb3ard> first off, we can agree that no packet should wander around the network forever
[13:06] <Redb3ard> it either finds its destination, tries for awhile longer, or it should die
[13:07] <Redb3ard> but, there are optimization strategies going on
[13:07] <Redb3ard> what happens when the packet is close, will finally make it, but the host has already given up on it, re-issues it?
[13:08] <cbreak> a probabilistic approach would allow to drop packets with a fixed probability. Buth like you say: Timeouts are also a problem...
[13:10] <Redb3ard> hmm
[13:10] <Redb3ard> only the last successful node should be allowed to timeout
[13:10] <Redb3ard> A-B-C-D
[13:11] <Redb3ard> if a passes it on to B, and we get some sort of ack there... A is no longer allowed to just time out on its own, will have to await timeout notification from B
[13:11] <cbreak> not good. what if a node forgets about a packet? (Because it was stoped)
[13:11] <Redb3ard> since b is the only one that can determine now, if it will fail or succeed
[13:11] <Redb3ard> more importantly, what happens with a malignant node
[13:12] <Redb3ard> pretends to pass a request, then just lets the other guy hang
[13:12] <cbreak> yes. the famous black hole nodes...
[13:12] <Redb3ard> or maybe its not even malicious, mabe B dies, power outtage or something
[13:12] <Redb3ard> screw this
[13:12] <Redb3ard> bring back circuit switching
[13:13] <cbreak> hmm?
[13:13] <Redb3ard> this is only an issue on a packet switched network, of course
[13:14] <Redb3ard> circuit switching is more overhead, but allows for direct connections
[13:14] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ("Leaving")
[13:14] <cbreak> depends. sometimes it does not even allow a connection :)
[13:14] <cbreak> Packet Networks are far more redundant.
[13:22] <Redb3ard> cell networks
[13:22] <Redb3ard> thats where its at
[13:23] <Redb3ard> just wish i could find the oc12 blade for mine... pretty sad when a $20 gigabit card can outperform my ATM155 lan
[13:29] * interrupt (~chatzilla@64.122.23.213) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.64f [Mozilla rv:1.7/20040707]")
[14:01] <Ash-Fox> Heh, I got a e-mail about someone asking me the pupose of this text record in my DNS of my domain: quickfox.org. 5M IN TXT "We are the borg, lower your firewalls and surrender your computers, we will add your biological and technological distinctivness to our own. Resistance is futile."
[14:02] <Ash-Fox> Apparently it causes a SPF enabled mailserver to crash
[14:03] <hirvox> lol
[14:03] <cbreak> understandable
[14:03] <cbreak> the borg are powerfull oponents. (Unless you are on the voyager and have lots of Plotholes on your side...)
[14:04] <hirvox> is there any RFCs that specify the maximum length of a TXT record?
[14:04] <Ash-Fox> nope
[14:04] <Ash-Fox> I'm thinking about sticking some HTML in a TXT record, so people looking up domain info on my domain on a site will get a nice suprise :P
[14:05] <Redb3ard> plotholes
[14:06] <Redb3ard> more useful to voyager than wormholes, and used 10 times as often
[14:06] <digger3> why does freenet still use about 100% of my upstream while I said it to use about 40%?
[14:06] * ninja_ (~im10ninja@82-133-110-130.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[14:06] <Redb3ard> digger, because it really wanted to use 250% of your upstream
[14:06] <Redb3ard> but that setting lowered it to 100
[14:07] * ninja_ (~im10ninja@82-133-110-130.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[14:09] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-082-082-233-239.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[14:09] <digger3> Redb3ard: :P but seriously I've set my outputBandwidthLimit=12000 and it still goes at 30kb/s
[14:09] <Redb3ard> i dunno dude
[14:09] <Redb3ard> personal experience, its bandwidth greedy
[14:10] <Redb3ard> toad will be back sooner or later, im sure he can give the technical nitty-gritty
[14:10] <digger3> sure, but I guess it's a simple question, and Toad's way to busy :)
[14:12] * \_\Guybrush\_\ (~beber@ARennes-204-1-9-252.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #freenet
[14:12] <\_\Guybrush\_\> hello
[14:14] <Ash-Fox> Hello
[14:15] * TLF (francisco@77.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[14:18] <\_\Guybrush\_\> I've just tried freenet on Linux, I don't know how I can download something
[14:19] <cbreak> tryed TFE? The link is on the start page of freenet
[14:19] <\_\Guybrush\_\> i look
[14:20] <\_\Guybrush\_\> tfe ?
[14:21] <cbreak> the freedom engine. Maybe there are other links on the page by now...
[14:22] <\_\Guybrush\_\> merci
[14:24] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs6669187-74.houston.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[14:24] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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[14:27] <\_\Guybrush\_\> cbreak> have you got an url ?
[14:27] <cbreak> for tfe? http://localhost:8888/SSK@rBjVda8pC-Kq04jUurIAb8IzAGcPAgM/TFE//
[14:28] <\_\Guybrush\_\> it's ok :)
[14:28] <\_\Guybrush\_\> but I've a "Route Not Found" :(
[14:29] <cbreak> freenet needs a few hours/days of runtime to find good peers, and get known to the network.
[14:38] * Beber (~Beber@ARennes-204-1-9-252.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #freenet
[14:38] * Beber is now known as Helaine
[14:47] * TLF (francisco@25.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[14:50] * Zv2S (~rfc1413@squirrel.owl.de) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[14:51] <\_\Guybrush\_\> thanks cbreak
[14:52] * ray_ (~ray@flingpoo.com) has joined #freenet
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[15:01] * ZwiSter2 (~ZwiSter@p54808985.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[15:06] * thelema (~thelema@adsl-65-65-203-187.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[15:12] * g4lt-ii is now known as galt
[15:24] * robilad (~topic@mpiat2313.ag2.mpi-sb.mpg.de) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[15:27] * TLF (francisco@25.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[15:45] <\_\Guybrush\_\> what does mean that ?
[15:45] <\_\Guybrush\_\> SSK@rBjVda8pC-Kq04jUurIAb8IzAGcPAgM/TFE//
[15:45] <\_\Guybrush\_\> RouteNotFound, reason: I/O error storing DataReply
[15:46] <cbreak> how big is your datastore?
[15:46] <cbreak> and can freenet write to it?
[15:47] <\_\Guybrush\_\> I've allocated 1GB
[15:49] <cbreak> hmm... no clue...
[15:49] <\_\Guybrush\_\> :/
[15:49] <cbreak> have you ever recieved a page from freenet sucessuflly?
[15:50] <\_\Guybrush\_\> I don't understand
[15:50] <\_\Guybrush\_\> Highest seen bytes downloaded in one minute: 138584
[15:50] * sanity_ (~r00t@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[15:50] * pupok (~janie@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[15:51] * sanity_ (~r00t@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[15:51] <cbreak> did you ever get something other than Route Not Found errors?
[15:51] * pupok (~janie@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[15:51] <\_\Guybrush\_\> no
[15:51] <\_\Guybrush\_\> In the Current Download Page ?
[15:51] <\_\Guybrush\_\> on the web interface ?
[15:52] <cbreak> Current Downloads lists mainly SplitFile Downloads
[15:52] <cbreak> for example: can you recieve KSK@gpl.txt
[15:52] <\_\Guybrush\_\> I've nothing in Spitfile downloads
[15:53] <cbreak> yes. of course not :)
[15:53] <\_\Guybrush\_\> how can I get KSK@gpl.txt ?
[15:53] <cbreak> enter the key ("KSK@gpl.txt") in the Key box on the main page
[15:54] <cbreak> and press the "Request" button.
[15:54] <\_\Guybrush\_\> ok, i try it
[15:56] * \_\Guybrush\_\ is now known as Guybrush
[15:56] <cbreak> you should at least get a Data Not Found error...
[15:59] <Guybrush> my computer is slow tonight :)
[15:59] <Guybrush> it's searching
[15:59] <cbreak> freenet is known for its slowness. Patience is neccessary.
[16:00] <Guybrush> ;)
[16:00] <Ash-Fox> Patience is what causes you to get caught by the FBI!
[16:00] <Guybrush>
[16:00] <Guybrush> Couldn't retrieve key: KSK@gpl.txt
[16:00] <Guybrush> Hops To Live: 15
[16:00] <Guybrush> Error: Route Not Found
[16:01] <Guybrush> lol Ash-Fox
[16:01] <Guybrush> I'm under a NAT alsa
[16:01] <Guybrush> also
[16:02] <cbreak> nat? hmm...
[16:02] <cbreak> how many open connections have you?
[16:04] <Guybrush> 32
[16:05] * goatee_ (~goatee@ip216-239-83-190.vif.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[16:06] <cbreak> maybe your peers are just overloaded... but I have never seen an I/O related RNF Error...
[16:07] <Guybrush> :(
[16:08] <Guybrush> so I'm waiting now
[16:08] <Guybrush> for better peats
[16:08] <Guybrush> pears
[16:08] <cbreak> I wish you luck :D
[16:08] <Guybrush> :)
[16:13] * Guybrush [mp3+] - (Playing: Les V.R.P. - Le roi de la route) - (2:40 of 4:46) - (55.94%)
[16:13] <Guybrush> oups
[16:13] <Guybrush> scuse
[16:15] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-240-239.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[16:16] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-240-092.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[16:26] <Guybrush> normaly it's working directly ?
[16:27] <cbreak> directly? I don't know. But after one day or so you should get something...
[16:28] <cbreak> Most common mistake is to have an NAT without Port Forwarding or old seednodes.
[16:28] <Guybrush> okey, thanks
[16:28] * thelema (~thelema@adsl-65-66-63-28.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) has joined #freenet
[16:28] <Guybrush> I have port forwarding
[16:28] <cbreak> but since you have open connections, It should work better than it does.
[16:29] <Guybrush> and after how can I find something to download ? with tle ?
[16:29] <Guybrush> tfe
[16:29] <Guybrush> ?
[16:29] <cbreak> TFE lists other pages, on them you might find stuff to download.
[16:29] <Guybrush> :)
[16:30] <cbreak> an other very popular source is frost, a java message board client
[16:30] <cbreak> jtcfrost.sf.net
[16:32] <Guybrush> it's look good :)
[16:32] <cbreak> but if you are mainly interested in downloading content, freenet might not be your first choiche.
[16:33] <Guybrush> I heard freenet to be the futur of eMule & co
[16:33] <cbreak> Yes. Maybe in a few years :)
[16:33] <Guybrush> I don't use p2p because of not crypt and anonymous
[16:33] <Guybrush> and freenet is that
[16:33] <cbreak> ATM freenet is slow, uses a lot of resources, and does not allways work.
[16:33] <Guybrush> yes
[16:34] <Guybrush> it's else in development
[16:34] <cbreak> Also it is not searchable, like other P2P Networks. If you want to publish something, you have to insert it.
[16:34] <Guybrush> it's ok for me
[16:34] <cbreak> good :)
[16:35] <cbreak> just don't be disapointed, freenet might be the future, but now it is quite alpha.
[16:35] <Guybrush> i'am not
[16:35] <ray_> Is it possible to implement some sort of dynamic pages in Freenet to make it searchable?
[16:36] <cbreak> No Server Side Dynamics
[16:36] <ray_> I mean, to me it seems like it's just a giant hash table, and just like a hash table, you can't search it.
[16:36] <cbreak> And to implement client side dynamic content, you have to bypass the Anonymity Filter.
[16:36] <Guybrush> searching file use a lot of bandwidth, not good
[16:36] <ray_> I know, but the design of it seems to inhibit searching. I'm wondering if it were ever possible.
[16:37] <cbreak> frost builds an index of inserted files, and makes that searchable.
[16:37] <ray_> Guybrush: Actually, I don't think it's possible even if you had all the bandwidth in the world.
[16:37] <Guybrush> lol
[16:38] <ray_> I saw that some people implemented some sort of e-mail using Freenet, I wonder how that works.
[16:38] <cbreak> maybe similar to FMB
[16:38] <Guybrush> i've worked for a french isp, p2p use 80% of the heart network, a lot is for search. it's not good to implement a search functions I think
[16:39] <cbreak> every user has an SSK, and messages are inserted into that.
[16:39] <cbreak> Guybrush: That is broadcast search. Freenet could never use that kind of search.
[16:40] <cbreak> If something is inserted into freenet, you can only recieve it if you know its key. It is encrypted, so no searching.
[16:41] <ray_> Guybrush: That's what I meant when I said that bandwidth won't help you search. =)
[16:41] <ray_> Unless of course you decided to try every single key.
[16:41] <ray_> And each key would also require waiting for other freenet nodes to retrieve to send to you.
[16:43] <cbreak> a CHK Key not only contains a routing part (used to find the content in the network), but also a Crypto Part. So you can't even search your local data store :)
[16:46] <Iakin5> Hmmm.. how can SSK@Sc6qV~D6iFhaYord6HtbjJ8MaEYPAgM/YoYo//Video.jpg be 106 kbyte?
[16:46] <Iakin5> Transfer of 101 bytes started. Done.
[16:46] <Iakin5> ...Followed redirect...
[16:46] <Iakin5> Transfer of 6658 bytes started. Done.
[16:46] <Iakin5> ...Followed redirect...
[16:46] <Iakin5> Transfer of 106783 bytes started. Done. 16384 bytes transferred. 32768 bytes transferred. 49152 bytes transferred. 65536 bytes transferred. 81920 bytes transferred. 98304 bytes transferred. Done.
[16:46] <Iakin5> Heh.. I got both Cofe, Yoyo and TFE..
[16:46] <Iakin5> First time in a _Very_ long time?
[16:48] <cbreak> hmm... it looks only like 1.6 KB here...
[16:48] * ZwiSter2 (~ZwiSter@p54808985.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[16:54] <digger3> Iakin5: huh? that's not normal?
[17:06] * ray_ (~ray@flingpoo.com) Quit ("Lost terminal")
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[17:43] <cbreak> hmm... a NoSuchMethodException...
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[17:53] <KenMan> i had a non-fatal OOM, and also suffered another NTP 'incident' - i don't know exactly what happened first - looks like the OOM :(
[17:57] <KenMan> fred seems to be running fine now, but a restart is probably called for (the diagnostics are now suspect) ...
[18:00] <KenMan> after the blackout incident (i was not here to monitor it) I had 18861 queries in an hour, which i don't doubt. It almost looks like my ISP went dead for 1.5 hrs
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[18:43] <leex-Zzzz> grr i want to do loads of things but cant think of the things i want to do
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[19:05] <toad_> <Iakin5> Hmmm.. how can SSK@Sc6qV~D6iFhaYord6HtbjJ8MaEYPAgM/YoYo//Video.jpg be 106 kbyte? - it's a container
[19:05] <toad_> ;)
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[19:06] * Guybrush (~beber@ARennes-204-1-9-252.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit ("Mes couilles sur ton nez on dirait un dindon")
[19:07] <yonkeltron> i am going to build an openmosix cluster in my basement.....would it be a good idea to run freenet on the cluster?
[19:09] <digger3> yonkeltron: yes, if it's got enough bandwidth
[19:09] <toad_> <digger3> Redb3ard: :P but seriously I've set my outputBandwidthLimit=12000 and it still goes at 30kb/s - that's not good, usually it more or less respects the bwlimits...
[19:10] <toad_> you sure that's not kiloBITS/sec?
[19:10] <yonkeltron> digger3: my house has a 3mbps cable pipe
[19:11] <toad_> <\_\Guybrush\_\> RouteNotFound, reason: I/O error storing DataReply - ouch. Perhaps the disk is full?
[19:11] <yonkeltron> digger3: is that enough bandwidth?
[19:12] <iip_i2p> <oOo> As long as you are talking of upload
[19:13] <toad_> <ray_> I know, but the design of it seems to inhibit searching. I'm wondering if it were ever possible. - no, it is feasible to implement searching
[19:13] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[19:13] <yonkeltron> iip_i2p: well i think i want to give something back to the community. freenet seems to be one of the best ways
[19:13] <toad_> <Guybrush> i've worked for a french isp, p2p use 80% of the heart network, a lot is for search. it's not good to implement a search functions I think - only because they are broadcast
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[19:14] <toad_> <cbreak> hmm... a NoSuchMethodException... - yikes, running what build?
[19:15] <toad_> yonkeltron: freenet is heavily threaded
[19:15] <toad_> non-shm clusters don't work well with threads
[19:15] <toad_> ALSO, you should know mosix is ancient, where it's at with clusters is the compaq/hp Single System Image work (ssi.sf.net i think)
[19:16] <toad_> much much better single system image... mosix just pretends to be one, and isn't very good at it
[19:16] * nphase (nphase@cdm-24-250-143-238.bcst.cox-internet.com) has joined #freenet
[19:17] <toad_> hi nphase
[19:17] <nphase> hi toad
[19:17] <toad_> got a freenet node?
[19:17] <nphase> im checking it out
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[19:17] <nphase> wait
[19:17] <nphase> what is freenet
[19:17] <toad_> well be warned, it won't work instantly
[19:17] <nphase> i know
[19:17] <nphase> i just read
[19:17] <toad_> http://freenetproject.org/ - you didn't know?
[19:18] <nphase> wel
[19:18] <nphase> im reading it now
[19:19] <nphase> how much processing power does it require?
[19:19] <toad_> depends
[19:19] <toad_> some crazy people run it on 200MHz PCs
[19:19] <nphase> well
[19:19] <nphase> i have two boxes
[19:19] <toad_> CPU usage has varied a lot...
[19:20] <toad_> you need to run it in the background, more or less constantly
[19:20] <nphase> a 2.8ghz and a 1.2ghz
[19:20] <toad_> so it requires some dedication...
[19:20] <nphase> 2.8 is for development
[19:20] <toad_> it should run on either of those
[19:20] <nphase> and 1.2 is for like AIM and winamp and occasionally tv
[19:20] <toad_> but it may cause significantly more load on the 1.2
[19:20] <nphase> (tuner card)
[19:20] <toad_> you'll need to turn it off if you want to e.g. watch a DVD, probably
[19:23] <nphase> eh
[19:23] <nphase> thx tho
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[19:29] <toad_> hmmm
[19:29] <toad_> this is really bizarre
[19:30] <toad_> one moment its a TransferInsert
[19:30] <toad_> the next moment its a TransferInsertPending
[19:30] <toad_> but it's logging it as a transferinsert
[19:30] <toad_> SEC 23/08/2004 16:41:59.504 (freenet.node.states.request.TransferInsert, YThread
[19:30] <toad_> ...
[19:30] <toad_> at freenet.node.states.request.RequestInitiator.<init>(RequestInitiator.
[19:30] <toad_> java:34)
[19:30] <toad_> at freenet.node.states.request.RequestState.scheduleRestart(RequestState
[19:30] <toad_> .java:153)
[19:30] <toad_> at freenet.node.states.request.Pending.receivedAccepted(Pending.java:547
[19:30] <toad_> )
[19:30] <toad_> at freenet.node.states.request.TransferInsertPending.receivedMessage(Tra
[19:30] <toad_> nsferInsertPending.java:267)
[19:31] <toad_> and then it goes back to a TransferInsert
[19:32] <toad_> it's not running 2 at once since they're on the same thread
[19:32] <toad_> yet it seems to be handling a different message the other time...
[19:33] <toad_> ah i see
[19:33] <toad_> we logged the init-exception...
[19:34] <leex-Zzzz> haveing fun toad_
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[19:40] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit ("Visit www.CyberLore.net for recommendations on the best games, websites and freeware. Don't settle for anything else!")
[19:41] <toad_> hmmm
[19:41] <toad_> this is strange
[19:41] <toad_> InsertPending.endRoute()
[19:41] <toad_> always returns an AwaitingInsert
[19:41] <toad_> even if called by TransferInsert with a DataInsert
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[19:49] <Ash-Fox> toad_, I see you http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/23/peeping_tom_worm/
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[19:51] <leex-Zzzz> lol
[19:51] <leex-Zzzz> nice one Ash-Fox
[19:57] <toad_> hehe
[19:57] <toad_> i don't have a webcam though
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[20:52] * toad_ chasing some insert bugs, have written some code...
[20:53] <toad_> will commit tomorrow
[20:53] <toad_> bbl
[20:56] <toad_> List: Support@freenetproject.org
[20:56] <toad_> From: ed@advertisinggateway.com
[20:56] <toad_> Subject: co-bundle
[20:56] <toad_> Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list
[20:56] <toad_> Hello please contact me asap regarding co-bundling my adware application.
[20:56] <toad_> Is this something you can do?
[20:56] <toad_> Ed Kuras
[20:56] <toad_> Advertising Gateway, Inc.
[20:56] <Redb3ard> impossible
[20:56] <Redb3ard> my wifi card was down for 11 minutes that time
[20:56] <Redb3ard> freenet still didnt drop me
[20:56] <Redb3ard> wtf kind of timeout do these guys run?
[20:56] <toad_> do you think it would amuse the list?
[20:56] <toad_> or should i silently dump the message?
[20:59] <Redb3ard> um
[20:59] <Redb3ard> that needs to get put on the web
[20:59] <Redb3ard> that guy deserves to be embarrassed
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[21:21] * toad_ finds it quite amusing that they would want to adware-ize freenet
[21:21] <toad_> it's not like it'd be a major source of revenue!
[21:21] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:21] <toad_> for them, i mean..
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[21:23] <toad_> hmmm
[21:23] * toad_ starts up stable node w/ unstable-hacks
[21:23] <toad_> 2 conns
[21:23] <toad_> now 5...
[21:28] <toad_> hmmm
[21:28] <toad_> more RNFs of course...
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[21:29] <toad_> one way to fix this would be to allow requests to be routed to connections which were not open at the time of the request being routed...
[21:29] <toad_> making the class NGRouting more of a cache...
[21:31] <toad_> anyone got any of the alinks yet? I have 3 alinks, but only CofE has actually loaded...
[21:33] <toad_> i mean i have 3 alinks, but of the sites, only CofE has actually loaded
[21:34] <toad_> and that's unchanged :(
[21:35] <toad_> bbl
[21:35] <Redb3ard> wheh
[21:35] <Redb3ard> cya
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[22:40] <KenMan> that's funny - we have a class called 'EatData' :)
[22:40] <KenMan> i hope it is an herbivore !!
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
