Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:00] <Malditus> Err that is integrated to a point where it aproaches peak efficiency...
[0:13] <salahx> about 24-48 hrs.
[0:35] <KenMan> it is bizarre how well success correlates to incoming query rate. FRED has certainly been happiest on my node when qph is under 1000...
[0:35] <salahx> not to suprising
[0:36] <salahx> Just like we humans start dropping things when we're overwhelemed, so does Fred :)
[0:36] <KenMan> no, of course it also means backoff is at its lowest as well...
[0:37] <KenMan> just imagine what Fred could do if it lost its human aspects... :)
[0:39] <salahx> Fred carries a LOT of state
[0:39] <salahx> like irc deamons do
[0:41] <KenMan> yeah, but just like the irc servers, there is a certain signal to noise ratio :(
[0:43] <salahx> if its anything liek Frost, WHAT signal ?
[0:43] <KenMan> ;)
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[1:36] <KenMan> hi goatie !
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[4:25] <Iakin5> [03:12] <Jarod> even if I am behind a firewall?
[4:25] <Iakin5> [03:13] <salahx> Yep
[4:25] <Iakin5> [03:13] <toad__> it should?
[4:25] <Iakin5> [03:13] <salahx> One of the nicer features added to Freenet is "bidirection" connection, so you can still send and recieve behind a firewall
[4:25] <Iakin5> [03:13] * toad__ hasn't tried recently...
[4:25] <Iakin5> The node that exhibits those 16405 errors is such a one
[4:26] <Iakin5> It works ok except for lots of timeouts
[4:30] <Iakin5> [04:03] <KenMan> 5091 - sentData for 16 hours (915/1708)=54% , recvData for 16 hours (519/927)=56%
[4:30] <Iakin5> [04:04] <toad__> KenMan: hmmm
[4:30] <Iakin5> [04:04] <toad__> what about sentDataNonInserts ?
[4:30] <Iakin5> [04:05] <KenMan> that one is much better - 714/848=84% :)
[4:30] <Iakin5> Same here
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[7:18] <Iakin5> toad: I started an download of the TFE first page, checked the 'Current downloads' page, saw that the download followed a redirect, started a transfer of 1708 bytes.. then RNF:d
[7:19] <Iakin5> Isn't it abnormal that something suddenly RNF:s after the transfer has started?
[7:20] <Iakin5> Or is it so that that 'started transfer of 1708 bytes' message indicates an 'accepted' message received or something?
[7:21] <Iakin5> Reloading the TFE initial page it would seem that those 1708 bytes actually arrived to my cache after all
[7:21] * Gunnar (~gunnar@34.80-203-209.nextgentel.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[7:25] <Iakin5> ...since the current downloads page then showed that the request immediately followed yet another request when it had downloaded those 1708 bytes
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[8:23] <L3CY> anyone know where i can get a freenet reference file thats not the one which comes with freenet?
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[8:51] <Redb3ard> im getting better at working with allegro's gui code
[8:51] <Redb3ard> maybe ill be a programmer yet
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[9:37] <parc> hey folks
[9:37] <parc> I'm having extreme difficulty getting a route since the new stable branch :|
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[9:39] <lolo-laptop> parc: you reseed?
[9:40] <parc> I run ./update
[9:40] <parc> downloaded the full tarball of the stable branch and run ./update every night
[9:40] <parc> dont think I've gotten any route since the new stable snapshot
[9:40] <lolo-laptop> reseed your node.
[9:40] <greycat> update.sh downloads a new seednodes file, but un-touches it back to 1970.
[9:41] <greycat> try touching it...
[9:41] <parc> I touched it
[9:41] <parc> try again
[9:42] <parc> at least it's nice to have the seednodes bzip2'ed
[9:42] * parc restarts
[9:43] <greycat> um... update.sh didn't unzip it?
[9:43] <parc> yeah it does... I was commenting on the fact that update takes a lot less time
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[9:44] <parc> hmm my load is going up... thats a good sign
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[9:48] <parc> the touch trick seems to have brought it to life; doh!
[9:48] <parc> Thanks
[9:48] <parc> any reason the seednodes is 1970'ed ?
[9:49] <greycat> so that it won't reseed you by default
[9:50] <parc> thanks
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[10:00] <parc> hrm still hopeless connectivity
[10:00] <parc> wonder if it will warm up
[10:01] <KenMan> it helps if you light a fire under it... run Frost.
[10:01] <parc> oooh an inverse fire; I'll try it
[10:01] <toad__> hi
[10:02] <KenMan> hey toad, how are things today ?
[10:03] <toad__> <hobx> jay: The principles are quiet simple. If you want to be truly anonymous you have to use:
[10:03] <toad__> <hobx> 1) Onion routing. Each remailer peals off a layer of encryption, and finds another encrypted message and who it is encrypted for. At least three layers are needed.
[10:03] <KenMan> btw i love your MRIPeerPacket reduction code (5s maximum repetition), it is a nice improvement.
[10:03] <toad__> <hobx> 3) Defeat traffic analysis attacks by fake traffic, padded messages, etc.
[10:03] <toad__> <hobx> 3) Defeat timing analysis by delaying messages
[10:03] <toad__> <hobx> There is more, but with those three things I think you can build something that is pretty anonymous in practice.
[10:03] <toad__> <hobx> Freenet is not it though.
[10:03] <toad__> 1) is possible (although hard)
[10:04] <toad__> hopefully we'll get an approximation of 3) via queueing
[10:04] <toad__> we have SOME 2), there are open questions as regards how to efficiently do it... I want to avoid full blown constant rate links if possible...
[10:05] <Redb3ard> haha
[10:05] * toad__ is not convinced that freenet w/ htl is a LOT worse than crowds. But I have posted a proposal to get rid of htl.
[10:05] <Redb3ard> of the 3, which would hurt freenet the most?
[10:06] <Redb3ard> i think #1 with its 20 layers of encryption
[10:06] <Redb3ard> #2 though, would certainly slow things to a crawl also
[10:06] <Redb3ard> well, the first #3, not #2 exactly
[10:07] <parc> like everything else we have infinite bandwidth to do these dont we?
[10:07] <Redb3ard> yes
[10:07] <toad__> <KenMan> interesting, for past 10 hours, my node took in 16660 queries and put out 32878 total queries - ouch
[10:08] <Redb3ard> yes, kenman needs to triple that, with fake messages that do no one any good
[10:08] <parc> interesting for the past 2 hours my node seemed to do nothing
[10:08] <toad__> no, #3 just means 3 extra hops at the beginning
[10:08] <toad__> lol
[10:08] <Redb3ard> #3 #1, or #3 #2 ?
[10:09] <toad__> <KenMan> I am uncertain whether routingSuccessRatio includes messages which "could not even make it off my node" - i expect it does. 16656 unique Q in, 14615 unique Q out... - i think it does...
[10:09] <toad__> <KenMan> okay, what i think is this - either outboundAggregateRequests (32878) includes these 7514 or it doesn't. That is simple enough. - not sure
[10:11] <parc> I love it; my load is 80% and I've managed to not get a single page up
[10:11] <parc> oh well
[10:11] <KenMan> parc, if you are serious about your affections, then you are well suited to running Freenet
[10:11] <KenMan> :p
[10:11] <parc> :D
[10:12] <parc> shame it's chewed up every last shred of upload bandwidth I have though
[10:13] <KenMan> reduce maxNodeConnections and outgoingBandwidthLimit
[10:13] <parc> I've done the latter
[10:13] <KenMan> and it not workie ?
[10:14] <toad__> <Iakin5> The node that exhibits those 16405 errors is such a one
[10:14] <toad__> <Iakin5> It works ok except for lots of timeouts
[10:14] <toad__> <Iakin5> [04:03] <KenMan> 5091 - sentData for 16 hour
[10:14] <toad__> i wonder how soon we can make 60197 mandatory on unstable...
[10:14] <toad__> <Iakin5> toad: I started an download of the TFE first page, checked the 'Current downloads' page, saw that the download followed a redirect, started a transfer of 1708 bytes.. then RNF:d
[10:14] <toad__> <Iakin5> Isn't it abnormal that something suddenly RNF:s after the transfer has started?
[10:14] <toad__> no
[10:15] <toad__> to get TFE you have THREE requests
[10:15] <Ash-Foxeus> freenet is working poopier than usual :/
[10:15] <toad__> get the DBR, get the update, and get the ZIP
[10:15] <KenMan> Ash-Foxeus: which one - stable unstable or both ?
[10:15] <Ash-Foxeus> both :P
[10:15] <parc> KenMan, cant say that it does
[10:16] <KenMan> parc: what exact setting have you used ?
[10:16] <toad__> parc: your nodes are all connectable? what does the routing table page say?
[10:16] <toad__> KenMan: hi
[10:16] <parc> 12000 outgoing; I have 128Kit upload
[10:16] <parc> toad__, where's that?
[10:17] <KenMan> those are almost equal ... push it down to 9000 and see what happens...
[10:17] <toad__> <parc> shame it's chewed up every last shred of upload bandwidth I have though - that's a good sign
[10:17] <parc> sorry if I'm delayed; I get massive lag because of that
[10:17] <toad__> show me the header of your RT page... go to advanced mode, node status, routing table
[10:17] <parc> KenMan, 128 is 16k
[10:18] <KenMan> yes, but ISP and modem behavior can take down some difference. Just try it and see what happens...
[10:18] <toad__> parc: reduce it
[10:18] <toad__> i recommend 8000 for a 128kbps uplink
[10:18] <toad__> brb
[10:18] <parc> ok
[10:18] <parc> thanks
[10:19] <Iakin5> [16:33] <toad__> i wonder how soon we can make 60197 mandatory on unstable...
[10:19] <Ash-Foxeus> make a new network
[10:19] <toad__> KenMan: hi
[10:19] <Iakin5> toad, I get that kind of timeouts from 60197 nodes too..
[10:19] <toad__> KenMan: any opinions on request/transfer coalescing?
[10:19] <KenMan> toad__: hi
[10:19] <parc> toad__, routing summary?
[10:19] <Iakin5> [16:34] <toad__> to get TFE you have THREE requests
[10:19] <toad__> Iakin: it's caused by the downstream nodes
[10:20] <toad__> the source nodes
[10:20] <toad__> parc: yes
[10:20] <toad__> parc: the top 5 lines
[10:20] <Iakin5> Aha.. so then my refresh-wasn't fast enough
[10:20] * KenMan figures he should go read devl to know what req/xfer coalesce means ...
[10:20] <parc> umm
[10:20] <parc> toad__, #flood ok?
[10:21] <toad__> KenMan: if a request comes in after another request for the same key has already started a download, we should tie them and return the downloaded data
[10:21] <Iakin5> toad: Any specific reason to why it is after segment exactly?
[10:21] <Iakin5> ..mostly
[10:21] <toad__> parc: not necessary imho for 5 lines
[10:21] <toad__> Iakin5: a perversity of your node...
[10:21] <parc> 5 lines start with.. ?
[10:22] <KenMan> toad__: definitely.
[10:22] <toad__> Number of known routing nodes 202
[10:22] <toad__> Number of node references 201
[10:22] <toad__> Number of newbie nodes 9
[10:22] <toad__> Number of uncontactable nodes 2
[10:22] <toad__> Contacted and attempted to contact node references 200
[10:22] <toad__> Contacted node references 62
[10:22] <toad__> Contacted newbie node references 8
[10:22] <toad__> Connections with Successful Transfers 52
[10:22] <toad__> Backed off nodes 30
[10:22] <toad__> parc: those 9 lines
[10:22] <parc> Number of known routing nodes 391
[10:22] <parc> Number of node references 391
[10:22] <parc> Number of newbie nodes 42
[10:22] <parc> Number of uncontactable nodes 0
[10:22] <parc> Contacted and attempted to contact node references 391
[10:22] <parc> Contacted node references 48
[10:22] <parc> Contacted newbie node references 41
[10:22] <parc> Connections with Successful Transfers 10
[10:22] <parc> Backed off nodes 47
[10:22] <toad__> okay
[10:22] <toad__> it'll improve
[10:22] <toad__> hopefully :)
[10:22] <parc> haha
[10:22] <parc> ok thanks
[10:22] <KenMan> hey, how come toad__ gets only 30 of 62 nodes backed off ??!?
[10:23] <parc> I'll wait with the new 8000 setting
[10:23] <toad__> KenMan: second question: what about request coalescing?
[10:23] <toad__> and is it a valid argument for abolition of htl
[10:23] <toad__> ?
[10:23] <KenMan> i like it a lot, think it is a good idea. In fact, I thought it was already implemented :p
[10:24] <KenMan> i don't know just what I think about doing away with HTL... it is confusing at first glance
[10:24] <toad__> KenMan: with the exception of inserts
[10:24] <toad__> where we'd have a 3 phase request
[10:25] <toad__> Iakin5: well, in theory, the downstream node should timeout and then tell you it's timed out
[10:25] <toad__> but the timing is going to be a bit odd
[10:26] <KenMan> but an RNF works just as well, huh ?
[10:26] <toad__> so it's quite likely you'll time out first...
[10:26] <toad__> KenMan: hmm?
[10:26] <KenMan> as a transfer aborted
[10:26] * parc (~crap@c211-28-147-198.thoms1.vic.optusnet.com.au) Quit ("Leaving")
[10:27] <Iakin5> toad: check iakin.poweruser.org/freenetlogs/freenet.zip
[10:27] <toad__> do i have to? :(
[10:27] <toad__> what am i looking for?
[10:27] <Iakin5> just 1 meg
[10:27] <Iakin5> wc -l 16405
[10:28] * toad__ is now known as toad_
[10:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o toad_
[10:31] <toad_> Iakin5: how many DNVs?
[10:32] <toad_> also 16405 happens on several different messages
[10:32] <toad_> therefore the count is inflated
[10:32] <toad_> i have no idea why it's almost always 16405 when sending to your node
[10:33] <toad_> i do know that on mine it isn't usually
[10:33] <Iakin5> toad: I just saw one of them..
[10:33] <Iakin5> haven't seen any in ages
[10:33] <Iakin5> toad: I have _only_ outbound connections
[10:34] <Iakin5> ..since it is on a firewalled company machine..
[10:34] <Iakin5> MAybe that can have something to do with it?
[10:34] <toad_> i don't see why that would have any impact...
[10:34] <Iakin5> could you make try?`
[10:34] <toad_> you'll find it eventually
[10:34] <Iakin5> Bah.. I have tried for a week now
[10:35] <Iakin5> It would be interesting to see if a firewalling has that effect for some reason
[10:35] <toad_> i don't see how
[10:35] <toad_> but i recommend you have a look at the code, find out where the outbound equivalent would happen
[10:35] <toad_> and have a look at that
[10:35] <Iakin5> As you see.. the number of them is pretty far from insignificant..
[10:36] <toad_> that's only because you have 1kqph successful queries :)
[10:36] <Iakin5> nope.. actually the node cannot fill up its bw
[10:36] <Iakin5> Seems like other nodes avoid it..
[10:37] <toad_> cpu usage?
[10:37] <Iakin5> Eventhough it has a large store, fast speed, fast CPUs and as many outbound connections as possible open
[10:37] <Iakin5> It is a dual AthlonMP 2200+
[10:37] <Iakin5> ~10-20%
[10:37] <toad_> i'd expect you to get lots of requests... what's your outgoing MRI?
[10:37] <Iakin5> w8
[10:38] <Iakin5> .. restarting it..
[10:39] <Iakin5> will get baclk to you on that a little bit later.. gf waits for me..
[10:39] <Iakin5> grr.. takes forever to start with a large store
[10:40] <Iakin5> toad:
[10:40] <Iakin5> http://localhost:9888/servlet/nodestatus/diagnostics/outgoingRequestInterval/hour
[10:40] <Iakin5> Mean is about 20 to 30
[10:40] <toad_> Iakin5: how am i supposed to access that?
[10:40] <toad_> okay, well the fact that your node isn't getting many requests is interesting
[10:40] <Iakin5> hourly peaks at 60..
[10:40] <Iakin5> ok, bbl
[10:40] <toad_> are you stable?
[10:40] <toad_> or unstable?
[10:41] <Iakin5> unstable
[10:41] <Iakin5> bbl
[10:41] <leexgx> has unstable been updated yet
[10:42] <toad_> with what?
[10:42] * leexgx is now known as leexgx-work
[10:42] <leexgx-work> lie ver
[10:42] <leexgx-work> like
[10:42] <leexgx-work> mine is 99
[10:42] <KenMan> outgoingRequestInterval/hr is somewhat more valid than it used to be, but... consider that the most frequent contributors to the average are those with the lower values...
[10:43] <toad_> even so, that's a very low value
[10:43] <KenMan> it makes it artificially low...
[10:43] <toad_> hourly peaks at 60ms?
[10:43] <toad_> that's LOW
[10:44] <KenMan> yes, it is... historically typical for his node for some reason...
[10:45] <KenMan> if memory serves me, his node always gave mine an mRI below 1000ms anyway
[10:46] <KenMan> and don't you have some code that drives mRI lower in an attempt to attract more requests ?
[10:47] <KenMan> perhaps it is some unusual behavior emanating from that code... ?
[10:48] <KenMan> on the other hand, the number of transfers over time has been steadier than I've seen it in a long time. Both in-xfers and out-xfers drift between 20 and 30...
[10:48] <KenMan> this is in stable...
[10:49] <KenMan> this can only be a good sign.
[10:55] <toad_> KenMan: well, why is your node RNFing if his node has such a low MRI?
[10:55] <toad_> ignoring all other nodes?
[10:55] <toad_> and how much traffic does your node send his?
[10:56] * leexgx-work (~bbtt@cpc2-warr1-5-0-cust27.bagu.cable.ntl.com) Quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
[10:56] <toad_> and what does routing think of it?
[10:57] <KenMan> well, i'm on stable, so I shouldn't have his unstable node as one of my routes right now... but usually he was my top route taking the most requests...
[10:58] <KenMan> when he was present in my RT
[10:59] <KenMan> he was quite often the first line in the table
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[11:08] <toad_> brb
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[11:14] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aba29.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[11:18] <KenMan> hummingbirds freak me out when they get too close to me, but i guess i was asking for it by wearing a bright orange hat today.
[11:19] <KenMan> usually my first perception is the noise, not visual. Then I look and this heavily respirating creature is right there, with big eyes.
[11:20] <KenMan> the feeling is like a small helicopter buzzing right over me
[11:22] <KenMan> except the volume suggests a BIG helicopter, when they get within about 2-3 feet of my ear
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[11:35] <Redb3ard> haha
[11:35] <Redb3ard> my girlfriend has hummingbird feeders everywhere
[11:37] <Jarod> damn
[11:37] <Jarod> freenet still isn't loading anything
[11:38] <Jarod> 14 hours 44 minutes
[11:38] <mikeDOTd> any suggestions on filling maxNodeConnections? I haven't hit that max (200) since 5084
[11:38] <Jarod> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 24 (0/24/200)
[11:38] <Jarod> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 29 (5/24)
[11:38] <Jarod> Data waiting to be transferred None
[11:38] <Jarod> Total amount of data transferred 580 MiB
[11:38] <hobx_> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/18/1345258&tid=93&tid=1&tid=218
[11:38] <toad_> Jarod: what happens when you try?
[11:39] <toad_> hobx: /me bookmarks...
[11:39] <Jarod> Couldn't retrieve key: SSK@rBjVda8pC-Kq04jUurIAb8IzAGcPAgM/TFE//
[11:39] <Jarod> Hops To Live: 15
[11:39] <Jarod> Error: Route Not Found
[11:39] <Jarod> Attempts were made to contact 0 nodes.
[11:39] <Jarod> * 0 were totally unreachable.
[11:39] <Jarod> * 0 restarted.
[11:39] <Jarod> * 0 cleanly rejected.
[11:39] <Jarod> * 24 backed off.
[11:39] <Jarod> yesterday it said 1 restarted
[11:40] <Jarod> I guess 14 hours isn't long enough to wait
[11:40] <toad_> Based on principles similar to those proposed for so-called "Trusted Computing", RPOW allows third parties to dynamically and remotely verify what program is running on the RPOW server. The RPOW server is implemented on a high-quality secure processor, the IBM 4758 PCI Cryptographic Coprocessor, which has been validated to the highest level of security publicly available, FIPS-140 level 4. The 4758 is a self-contained single-board com
[11:40] <toad_> has its own device key, generated on-board, which never leaves the card. That key can issue cryptographically signed attestations which describe the software configuration running on the card, including the SHA-1 hash of the application program.
[11:40] <toad_> yikes
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[11:50] <Jarod> after 14 hours, shouldn't some stuff work?
[11:50] <Jarod> or should I just keep waiting?
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[11:55] <toad_> lol
[11:56] * toad_ gets message bounced by content filter in response to emails responding to that worm... because of the word "love" in the subject line ! ;)
[11:56] * toad_ thinks that's slightly over-zealous...
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[12:08] <toad_> hi
[12:09] <Jarod> ?
[12:13] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
[12:13] <hobx_> toad_: I smell a modern tragedy in the making.
[12:14] <Jarod> what is a technique in which you can hash a file, in which the hash represents the file + the hash embedded in the file?
[12:15] <hobx_> "Oh, why didn't you tell me you loved me before I trolled away all my karma?"
[12:15] <hobx_> "I did, but the filter got it!"
[12:16] <hobx_> jarod: Huh?
[12:17] <Jarod> how can I hash a file, such that the hash is contained in the file itself?
[12:18] <hobx_> I can't believe people are still having those silly amateur lawyer discussions.
[12:18] <hobx_> freenet-chat must be some version of hell.
[12:25] <Redb3ard> and i felt a great anguish, not unlike a million legitimate mailing list admins crying out in pain
[12:26] <Redb3ard> hobx, i havent been to freenet-chat, but the 9th circle is already reserved for SCO minions
[12:27] <Redb3ard> and i think the 7th is for the creators of New.net windows mangling software
[12:29] <sanity> hobx: chat has been inactive for years, it is only in the last month or so that it has been revived
[12:29] <sanity> personally i would rather those conversations get soaked up by chat than pollute the useful lists :-)
[12:30] <Redb3ard> whats the channel name again?
[12:34] <Iakin5> [17:02] <toad_> hourly peaks at 60ms?
[12:34] <Iakin5> [17:02] <toad_> that's LOW
[12:34] <Iakin5> But it is the truth..
[12:36] <Ash-Fox> "One final point to note is that Newham will be using Internet Explorer. Steel explained that this is because Microsoft is very serious about addressing security concerns. ?"
[12:36] <Ash-Fox> "Open source vendors are currently experiencing more vulnerabilities and receiving more security advisories than Microsoft. In addition, Microsoft has made a substantial investment in further improving security levels with its Trustworth Computing initiative"
[12:38] <toad_> <sanity> personally i would rather those conversations get soaked up by chat than pollute the useful lists :-) - agreed :)
[12:38] <toad_> Ash-Fox: LOL
[12:38] <Redb3ard> ah cmon... i wanna see the trollery
[12:38] <Redb3ard> where, where!
[12:38] <toad_> Ash-Fox: ummm
[12:38] <toad_> the latter one is just scary
[12:38] <Ash-Fox> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/16/msoft_newham_10yr_deal/
[12:39] <toad_> it's amazing what people will say with a straight face if they stand to gain enormously financially
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[12:40] <toad_> |Although CapGemini makes a big noise about being independent from Microsoft, the study was indeed funded by the software firm .
[12:40] <toad_> yeah...
[12:40] <Redb3ard> yes
[12:40] <Redb3ard> independent studies are some kind of communist thought propaganda
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[12:41] <toad_> sadly they have a point as regards migration costs
[12:41] <toad_> Redb3ard: fascist, not communist
[12:41] <toad_> Redb3ard: fascism, in its economic sense, is the default political system of mankind :(
[12:41] <Redb3ard> oh, sorry
[12:42] <Redb3ard> im about 10 years behind on who are enemies are
[12:42] <Redb3ard> wait
[12:42] <toad_> and yes, communism in practice has a lot in common with it :)
[12:42] <Redb3ard> shouldnt that be terrorist propaganda?
[12:42] <Redb3ard> new decade and all?
[12:42] <toad_> heh
[12:43] * toad_ is not going down THAT route :)
[12:43] <toad_> although I have been known to mumble about the national security implications of M$'s dominance :)
[12:43] <toad_> and TC for that matter
[12:44] <Iakin> toad: Where can I find the DSA identity my node sends to other nodes?
[12:44] <toad_> Iakin: hmmm
[12:44] <toad_> not sure
[12:44] <toad_> you can get the reference
[12:44] <toad_> but i don't think that actually includes the fingerprint
[12:45] <Redb3ard> personally, the communists were always my favorite enemy
[12:45] <Redb3ard> the terrorists are so cheesy, you know?
[12:46] <Redb3ard> you tell a little kid theres a commie under the bed that will slit his throat in the middle of the night, and you'll make him a neurotic
[12:46] <Redb3ard> do the same with terrorist, at best he ends up a cycnic
[12:46] <Redb3ard> just not the same
[12:47] <toad_> heh
[12:48] <hobx_> I don't read devl, so if you want me to read it you have to forward the mail in question
[12:49] <toad_> LOL
[12:49] <toad_> Message bounced by server content filter
[12:49] <toad_> for my message Subject: [freenet-dev] Getting rid of HTL, and impact on per node failure tables
[12:49] <toad_> !
[12:50] * pupok (~janie@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[12:52] <hobx_> toad_: What is it about the "fixed length key" thing that is going to make anonymity a lot worse?
[12:54] <toad_> hobx_: the fact that even smallish freesites will be divided into splitfiles
[12:55] <toad_> hobx_: and large files will be divided into HUGE numbers of files
[12:55] <toad_> the idea is to have all keys exactly 32kB long
[12:55] <toad_> this simplifies routing, means nodes have more data to go on when making routing choices, means new nodes will bootstrap faster, and helps to prevent traffic analysis
[12:55] <toad_> but as you see above, it makes correlation attacks much easier
[12:56] <Redb3ard> hmm
[12:56] <Redb3ard> couldnt the reverse also be true?
[12:57] <toad_> the reverse?
[12:57] <Redb3ard> i mean, seeing large files zips by, might give you an idea what is in them
[12:57] <toad_> yes, that's part of the advantage
[12:57] <Redb3ard> gee, theres only 3 ~720meg files on freenet... wanna guess which he is downloading?
[12:58] <toad_> heh
[12:58] <Redb3ard> also, anyone on the backbone would have an even easier time seeing who really requested it
[12:58] <toad_> you'll find there's many MANY gigs of stuff been inserted over the years
[12:58] <Redb3ard> since it wont blend with other requests
[12:58] <toad_> and much of it isn't even spiderable
[12:58] <toad_> Redb3ard: we pad filesizes to powers of 2 from 1kB to 1MB
[12:59] <toad_> and 1MB files are the most common size
[12:59] <toad_> even in BIG datastores
[13:00] <Redb3ard> well, for bigger ones, that could still narrow is significantly, even rounded to the meg
[13:00] <toad_> hobx_ isn't interested in talking... I'm going to aikido...
[13:00] <Redb3ard> i mean, i bet there is one somewhere that is 517 megs....
[13:00] <toad_> back ~ 23:00 GMT
[13:00] <Redb3ard> but i wont bet that there are 300 of them
[13:00] <toad_> Redb3ard: huh?
[13:00] <toad_> Redb3ard: no
[13:00] <toad_> you can only see that there are files of exactly 1MB
[13:01] <toad_> anything larger is split up into smaller files
[13:01] <hobx_> sorr
[13:01] <toad_> never downloaded a splitfile?
[13:01] <hobx_> y
[13:01] <toad_> hobx_: you get my point?
[13:01] <Redb3ard> ah
[13:01] <hobx_> was reading about Hal's money
[13:01] <toad_> hobx_: about correlation attacks?
[13:01] <Redb3ard> i never succeeded in downloading much of anything, actually
[13:02] <hobx_> well
[13:02] <hobx_> I think it is a bad idea.
[13:02] <toad_> also i forwarded a mail about the difficulties of premix routing to tech for you
[13:02] <hobx_> I avoided every arbitrary size constant I could.
[13:02] <toad_> hobx_: you'll have an opportunity to convince me later, but i suggest you look into the archives and find my various mails justifying it
[13:03] <toad_> IMHO there are at least 6 good reasons to do ti
[13:03] <toad_> it
[13:03] <toad_> bbl back ~~ 23:00 GMT
[13:03] <hobx_> But it is a bad idea regardless of the good reasons.
[13:03] <hobx_> Whatever size you make the partitions now, it will suck later.
[13:04] <toad_> hobx_: i do value your input just as i value thelema's, KenMan's, and ian's :)
[13:04] <toad_> bbl
[13:04] <hobx_> (And why are you calling constant size files constant size keys? That kind of had me confused....)
[13:04] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[13:05] <hobx_> On a good they, they might be a smart all put together as I am, so that is probably fair.
[13:05] <hobx_> On a good day
[13:10] <jay> Redb3ard: you're coding over there?
[13:11] <Redb3ard> a game
[13:12] <Redb3ard> the allegro toolkit and C, on linux
[13:13] <Redb3ard> haha, ill go the self-publisher route
[13:14] <Redb3ard> $5 for a cd-r, and in 3 years when im $15 richer, i can say i was a success at something
[13:15] <jay> heh
[13:15] <hobx_> write it for cellphones instead
[13:15] <hobx_> that is where the money is
[13:15] <jay> true
[13:16] <jay> its a new software revolution
[13:16] <jay> sort of
[13:16] <hobx_> The games are small a simple, so it is enough to have a nifty idea.
[13:16] <jay> i meant evolution actually
[13:17] <hobx_> I wonder if somebody has tried to make a Wolf3D for phones.
[13:17] <Redb3ard> a multiplayer game that needs keyboard support?
[13:18] <jay> well keyboard support isn't ideal
[13:18] <hobx_> Wow, I can get strippoker
[13:18] <jay> i heard someone playing pacman the other day
[13:18] <hobx_> since when did wolf have multiplayer?
[13:18] <jay> the original wolf3d didn't
[13:18] <jay> i finished that game
[13:19] <jay> or am i thinking of castle wolfenstein?
[13:19] <hobx_> difference?
[13:20] <jay> is there one?
[13:20] <jay> it was years ago
[13:20] <hobx_> Don't know. I don't remember.
[13:20] <hobx_> I mean the one with the blue walls anyways.
[13:20] <jay> hitler was the last guy i remember
[13:20] <hobx_> I don't think the phones could go for doom level graffics.
[13:21] <jay> not yet
[13:21] <jay> but the sky is the limit really
[13:21] <jay> 20 years ago none of this crap even existed
[13:21] <jay> let alone playing online games on a cellphone
[13:21] <hobx_> This looks pretty close: http://www.mophun.com/main_games.php?mode=previewgame&game_id=555
[13:22] <hobx_> But I think it is just one of those one view at a time RPG type games.
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[13:23] <hobx_> Fuck that
[13:23] <hobx_> it's draw poker.
[13:23] <hobx_> Who the hell plays draw poker...
[13:23] <jay> heh
[13:23] <jay> they do on ESPN
[13:24] <hobx_> Hmmm. I don't even have a clue what the tactics of draw poker are.
[13:25] <jay> i can follow a game more or less
[13:25] <jay> but i don't gamble at all
[13:25] <hobx_> I took so much money off my friends in Stockholm last weekend I have to be careful or they won't invite me back.
[13:27] <hobx_> ("so much money" is a less than $50, but we are poor people!)
[13:28] <hobx_> going home. Talk to the other me!
[13:31] <jay> you sans underscore?
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[13:37] <Redb3ard> guys, mine is a RTS, where you design and battle starships against other players
[13:37] <Redb3ard> also allows multiplayer cooperative, so for instance, jay could be the gunner, hobx the pilot, and myself the engineer
[13:38] <Redb3ard> 2d, but using real phsyics
[13:38] <Redb3ard> well, for the most part... still debating cloaking devices, teleporters and stuff
[13:38] <Redb3ard> but gravity, inertia, realistic piloting will all be there...
[13:41] <hobx> hmm
[13:41] <hobx> needs a name.
[13:41] <hobx> Considered Battlecruiser 3000 AD?
[13:41] <Redb3ard> Dreadnought
[13:41] <Redb3ard> though yeh, considering some cheesy "3000 AD" subtitle
[13:42] <hobx> The problem is you can't write a computer game for PCs on your own.
[13:42] <Redb3ard> needs voip too, for cooperative.... will kick ass to be captain yelling at the engineer that we need auxillary power back online, in the thick of it
[13:42] <Redb3ard> hobx, watch me
[13:42] <hobx> You'll end up like Derek Smart if you try.
[13:42] <Redb3ard> derek smart = ?
[13:43] <hobx> http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/june03/dumbestmoments/readers/index2.shtml
[13:43] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) Quit (No route to host)
[13:44] <Redb3ard> ah
[13:44] <Redb3ard> now i see the reference
[13:44] <Redb3ard> i have a few things going for me
[13:44] <Redb3ard> im stubbing in what little pixel art i need, with nasty gimped stuff
[13:44] <Redb3ard> same with mpegs
[13:44] <Redb3ard> i have this dumb blank mpeg, that im using to test cutscene code
[13:44] <Redb3ard> i dont expect to do either of those on my own
[13:45] <Redb3ard> then, the game is 2d only
[13:45] <Redb3ard> i figured, that while people could pilot a 3d ship, fly it well enough.... that they couldnt design one
[13:45] <Redb3ard> and, while im still considering a campaign mode... most of the game is summed up in that
[13:45] <Redb3ard> you design a ship, from a few hundred components, and you battle them
[13:46] <Redb3ard> gonna use toolkits for the networking, for the voip if i have it
[13:47] <hobx> I hope it works out for you
[13:47] <Redb3ard> dude, ive promised myself id write a game
[13:47] <Redb3ard> im doing it for that reason, and ive trimmed all the non-essentials out of it
[13:47] <Redb3ard> i figure i can have it done, to that extent, in 6 months
[13:47] <hobx> But I think the sad truth it is hard for the individual developer to make a splash in games today. (Of course the same can eb said for movies, but it does happen every once in a while. )
[13:47] <Redb3ard> the ship editor is almost done, for that matter
[13:47] <Redb3ard> its just kinda clunky yet
[13:48] <Redb3ard> i dont want to make a splash really
[13:48] <Redb3ard> and i dont claim that i could
[13:49] <hobx> seems reasonable.
[13:49] <Redb3ard> hell, hows this for reasonable? ive figured out how to sidestep relativity's effect in the game
[13:49] <hobx> And, if not for anything else, having a self written game in ones portfolio can't exactly be harmful when trying to get a job.
[13:49] <Redb3ard> the playing field is a light second squared
[13:49] <Redb3ard> anyone goes too fast, they step out of bounds and lose
[13:50] <hobx> relativity is kind of hard to model in multiplayer game, yeah.
[13:50] <Redb3ard> heck, even in a single player, you end up cheating
[13:51] <hobx> well, just run the world clock faster when the player is moving fast.
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[13:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
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[13:57] <Redb3ard> eek
[13:57] <Redb3ard> thanks for the link hobx
[13:57] <Redb3ard> now i have to come up with a different title idea
[13:57] <Redb3ard> :/
[13:59] <Iakin> CAn someone find my unstable node iakin.poweruser.org:37878 in their rt?
[14:00] <Iakin> ..and tell me what mRI they have for it?
[14:08] <KenMan> no iakin routes here for some time... :(
[14:16] * TLF (francisco@218.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
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[14:30] <Jarod> 17 hours 36 minutes
[14:31] <Jarod> and I still can't retrieve much of anything
[14:31] <Jarod> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 21 (0/21/200)
[14:31] <Jarod> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 27 (10/17)
[14:31] <Jarod> Data waiting to be transferred None
[14:31] <Jarod> Total amount of data transferred 704 MiB
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[14:41] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (".")
[14:42] <Jarod> ?
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[14:47] * sanity_ (~r00t@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
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[15:01] <Iakin> KenMan: check with 194.236.28.174:37878
[15:02] <Iakin> or 212.105.104.162:37878
[15:03] <KenMan> nope- none of them. I'm on stable if that matters...
[15:03] * hobx (~hobx@h196n1fls21o1077.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[15:04] <Jarod> how is it I can transfer 700 something megabytes and still have freenet not work?
[15:04] <KenMan> that is a great question Jarod. I guess the answer is 'bad luck' .
[15:05] <Jarod> if I leave it running for tomorrow, will my luck improve?
[15:07] * hobx (~hobx@h196n1fls21o1077.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #freenet
[15:07] * Brutha- (~x@pD958731B.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[15:15] <KenMan> Jarod - it might ! If all your requests are failing, then leave it going and try again an hour or two later.
[15:19] <KenMan> curious - someone sent me a request with an HTL of 30. I suppose there are still some clients that do that, and perhaps fproxy can do it to...
[15:23] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) Quit (No route to host)
[15:23] <KenMan> nasty - for some reason i just sent out an mRI of 3ms , even though the average typical at that time was around 136sec :o
[15:28] <KenMan> ugh - the mRI running average for this peer has not really recovered. Still sitting at 483ms. And he is the one sending in HALF of the queries I have received for the past 40 minutes :( I have 70 peers !!
[15:30] <KenMan> this demonstrates how easy it is to "steal" another node's query, if you had some evil reason for wanting to inspect the bulk of another node's traffic. Similar to a blackhole vulnerability.
[15:30] <KenMan> This is the primary reason I would like to see a lower bound for mRI, somewhere around 5000ms ... but it is not a perfect solution.
[15:31] <KenMan> if all my routes provide mRIs of 79000ms +/- 20000ms, what do you suppose happens when one of those requestors sends me an mRI of 13 ??
[15:33] <KenMan> dang, my node is still eating ALL of this unfortunate node's traffic . Just imagine if I was doing something malicious !!
[15:33] <Jarod> I'd be happy if I finally could reach stuff
[15:33] <Jarod> 700mb and still nothing
[15:34] <KenMan> Jarod: that's actually pretty normal for most folks. Only if you run some kind of splifile request non-stop will you be able to personally consume a large part of that 700mb, and if you do, then you are not really helping the network very much.
[15:35] <Jarod> hmm, yeah, but the thing is, why aren't requests I make to view other content, put at the top of the priority?
[15:35] <Jarod> shouldn't the needs of my private node be ahead of the needs of other nodes?
[15:35] <KenMan> in a strange way, they actually are. But the network is not terribly healthy right now.
[15:35] <Jarod> hmm
[15:36] <Jarod> how does it become unhealthy?
[15:36] <KenMan> No, your needs should NOT outweigh the requirement for your node to contribute to other peoples' requests.
[15:36] <Jarod> what if everyone else's requests outweigh MY request?
[15:36] <KenMan> it just IS unhealthy. Toad is working hard to make major improvements, but they will take time (like weeks and weeks)...
[15:36] <Jarod> what is my incentive to run a node anymore?
[15:37] <Jarod> I've been running it for 17 hours or whatever under good faith, with hopes that I could retrieve more content
[15:37] <KenMan> at this point in time, the only incentive to run a node is to help the network do whatever it is doing, and over time the software and your experience should improve. But it won't blink overnight.
[15:37] <Jarod> hmm
[15:38] <Jarod> so you are saying, it doesn't adapt well to people joining and leaving rapidly?
[15:38] <KenMan> no, that's not what I'm saying at all.
[15:38] <Jarod> I don't understand why it is so unhealthy
[15:38] <Jarod> would people who join and leave rapidly sort of jumble things up, and mess up the network structure and flow?
[15:39] <KenMan> they would, but that is already taken into consideration in the code.
[15:39] <Jarod> hmm
[15:39] <KenMan> people who run their nodes non-stop will get the best results.
[15:39] <Jarod> omg
[15:39] <Jarod> I have another graphic
[15:39] <Jarod> 2 graphics onw
[15:39] <Jarod> heh
[15:40] <KenMan> just walk away for a few hours, and try again later. You may be pleasantly surprised.
[15:40] <Jarod> heh
[15:40] <Jarod> it took 17 hours just to have another graphic show up
[15:40] <Jarod> still none of the links work
[15:40] <KenMan> or not. But if you keep trying (over time) you should be able to retrieve a fair amount of the content.
[15:40] <Jarod> hmm
[15:41] <Jarod> what exactly about running the node for longer periods of time will make the biggest improvement?
[15:41] <Jarod> also, will it have this big of a startup time, if I were to disconnect for a week, and retry connecting?
[15:41] <KenMan> Jarod: there is no magic button you can press to rapidly and magically improve your experience. This software takes time to do what it does.
[15:41] <Jarod> no, but I am curious what is holding my node back
[15:42] <KenMan> probably. Yes, if you drop out for a week, it will be pretty much like starting from scratch.
[15:42] <Jarod> the biggest factor preventing me from getting much of any usage out of it right now
[15:42] * TLF (francisco@98.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[15:42] <KenMan> the same thing that is holding back all nodes. The design is not 100% perfect, and it is still under development.
[15:42] <Jarod> hmm, so freenet will primarily be only for people with static constant connections to the internet
[15:43] <Jarod> hmm, yeah, I realize it is, but I mean, you say if I wait long enough things will get better. What exactly about waiting is going to make things move faster?
[15:43] <Jarod> and more content be accessible?
[15:43] <KenMan> well, that is the best situation possible. I know that there is concern for those without dedicated links.
[15:43] <KenMan> As your node pushes that 700mb of data around, it is learning how to do things more efficiently. It takes of lot of pushing before things become efficient.
[15:44] <Jarod> hmm, and for each node, the process for becoming efficient is different?
[15:44] <KenMan> At which point you should have rather better results. Just have patience is all I'm saying. Yes, each node learns different things, and some learn faster than others. But they are all working towards making the network as a whole do its thing better and better.
[15:44] <Jarod> so when you start freenet, it starts totally inefficient and unoptimized, and it is up to the network to sort of self tune itself to improve performance?
[15:45] <Jarod> interesting
[15:45] <KenMan> yes. That's about all the advice I can offer at this time.
[15:45] <Jarod> I Mean, I'll be patient, I just hope I won't be wasting all this time and bandwidth
[15:45] <KenMan> Well, if you don't expect a miracle then I can assure you that you won't be disappointed.
[15:46] <Jarod> hehehe
[15:46] <Jarod> I just expect a bunch of links to work
[15:46] <Jarod> because right now, nothing does, and it is sorta boring
[15:46] <KenMan> ah, now i see the problem.
[15:47] <KenMan> Freenet is not anywhere near to 'production' level quality. It will improve over time. It seems to work well enough for some people, or else there wouldn't be any users.
[15:49] <Jarod> true
[15:50] <Iakin> [21:23] <KenMan> nope- none of them. I'm on stable if that matters...
[15:50] <Iakin> Heh.. well, I am on unstable.. so it ought to do ;)
[15:52] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-213-023-249-157.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[15:57] * vsalento (~vsalento@cs136227.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[15:57] * vsalento (~vsalento@cs136227.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
[16:00] <Jarod> do I need to upgrade to the aug 18 latest build?
[16:12] * greycat (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) Quit ("Lick Bush in '04")
[16:13] <Jarod> what if a node goes down temporarily, and comes back up, does it have to relearn?
[16:34] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-213-023-249-157.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[17:24] * trouble_ (~trouble@p508EBD9C.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #freenet
[17:24] * trouble_ (~trouble@p508EBD9C.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #freenet
[17:30] * TLF (francisco@38.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[17:36] * vsalento (~vsalento@cs136227.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[17:38] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) Quit ("Client exiting")
[17:39] * vsalento (~vsalento@cs136227.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
[17:41] * Kyon (~Kyon@ip134-053-121-103.s121.muohio.edu) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:52] <hobx> So far the new simulator is looking good.
[17:52] <hobx> 1 million test requests in 3.3 seconds.
[17:52] <hobx> Of course, no routing yet, but it should only fall by an order of magnitude or two really.
[17:54] * osh__ (~chatzilla@h88n2fls307o1039.telia.com) has joined #freenet
[18:00] * |UK-Monster| (~bbtt@cpc2-warr1-5-0-cust27.bagu.cable.ntl.com) has joined #freenet
[18:00] * |UK-Monster| is now known as leex
[18:06] * interrupt (~chatzilla@64.122.23.213) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.64f [Mozilla rv:1.7/20040707]")
[18:08] <hobx> "Paris Hilton was set to begin shooting for her first starring film role in "Pledge This," about a college sorority, this month. "
[18:08] <hobx> Does anybody else smell a Golden Globe?
[18:12] <osh__> hobx: Perhaps they can get mary-kate & ashley too? That would make the film an instant "hit" I think.
[18:15] <hobx> I think Mary-Kate & Ashley should take a page out of Paris Hilton's book instead...
[18:15] <hobx> but with better lighting...
[18:17] <osh__> Paris Hiltons book? I thought she only made videos...
[18:26] <Redb3ard> too bad they didnt go to finland and do that a year ago
[18:26] <Redb3ard> it could have put freenet on the map
[18:26] <Redb3ard> ;)
[18:27] * osh__ is lost.
[18:31] <Redb3ard> o/whois osh__
[18:31] * leex is anoyed
[18:31] <Redb3ard> ah
[18:31] <leex> i hate sals men
[18:31] <Redb3ard> osh__, paris hilton if you know of her, had a sex tape released by an ex boyfriend
[18:31] <leex> sales
[18:31] <Redb3ard> hobx was suggesting similar for the olsen twins
[18:32] <Redb3ard> just in case your english wasnt up to the subtle idioms and all that
[18:32] * osh__ is slow tonight. It's all so obvious now....
[18:33] <Redb3ard> osh, is telia sweden or denmark?
[18:33] <Redb3ard> cant ever remember
[18:33] <leex> F why did i take my car for an service now got an new car now pah
[18:34] <osh__> Redb3ard: Both.
[18:34] <osh__> Redb3ard: Some Finland, Norway and a bit germany too I think.
[18:34] * leex is now known as leex-Zzzz
[18:36] <hobx> Redb3ard: Telia is sweden
[18:38] <Redb3ard> really
[18:38] <osh__> hobx: I think telia also has some tentacles in the other countries as well. Most in sweden though I'm sure.
[18:38] <Redb3ard> ill have to adjust my script, if i ever get it running again
[18:38] <Redb3ard> need to use maxmind's database anyway, its at least as accurate
[18:39] * osh__ has a node that only knows 2 others after the latest update. :-(
[18:39] <osh__> Hmm, wait... another one just showed up.
[18:39] <osh__> A whopping 3 nodes are now known to me... =)
[18:40] <Redb3ard> i had about 50 nodes yesterday
[18:41] <osh__> You know what the " 3 backed off" really means when trying to access anything (TFE).
[18:43] <leex-Zzzz> 69 active now
[18:43] <leex-Zzzz> 169 known
[18:43] <mikeDOTd> i remember someone talking about winxp sp2 limiting connections and having an impact on Freenet. Can anyone else confirm this?
[18:43] <leex-Zzzz> there be an tweek in the reg to allow more
[18:44] <leex-Zzzz> something like 10 open connections
[18:45] <mikeDOTd> do you have a link?
[18:45] <mikeDOTd> to either the problem, or the discussion about it, or the solution?
[18:46] <leex-Zzzz> somewhere on the emule forum
[18:46] <osh__> I haven't been able to see much of freenet since my vacation. When I came back and started it, most of the time I got the "couldn't retrieve key" page.
[18:46] <leex-Zzzz> i get that any way
[18:47] <leex-Zzzz> any way i am sleeping
[18:47] <Redb3ard> yeh
[18:47] <Redb3ard> non-server versions of windows have always had that 10 open connections limit
[18:48] <leex-Zzzz> windows file shreing it was only
[18:48] <leex-Zzzz> as i have had emule on my pc with 200-300 or so open connectiones
[18:49] <leex-Zzzz> but in ICF in sp2 thay say its in the ICF the 10 open connection limit
[18:49] <leex-Zzzz> that i find an bit silly i think
[18:50] * Brutha- (~x@pD958731B.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[18:51] * leex-Zzzz why do i feal riped off buying this car hmm as i am happy to get rid of old car that has ran over soem one and fix 4 other problems but at an cost that i could of borth an new one
[18:53] <leex-Zzzz> fs i am lame
[18:53] <leex-Zzzz> or the world gulabul !
[18:53] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[18:53] <leex-Zzzz> or i don't want to say no
[18:54] * osh__ has another connection now. Slowly rising.... 4 now... will be up to 50 sometime next week...
[18:54] <leex-Zzzz> mine jumed to 40 soon as i fired it up
[18:54] <leex-Zzzz> jumped
[18:54] <leex-Zzzz> unstable ?
[18:55] <leex-Zzzz> heh i still here
[18:55] * leex-Zzzz is now known as leex-Zzzz-gone
[18:57] <mikeDOTd> the freenet-java-webinstall.exe installs sun-jre 1.4.1, shouldn't it be installing 1.4.2?
[18:58] * orasis_ (~orasis@c-66-41-30-194.mn.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[19:04] <toad_> hi
[19:05] <mikeDOTd> i found info on the outbound connection limitations sp2 introduces, but haven't found a fix
[19:05] <jay> we know the fix
[19:05] <jay> it's a registry key
[19:06] <mikeDOTd> where can i find the fix?
[19:07] <jay> dunno about that but the fix is already known is what im saying
[19:07] <mikeDOTd> ...
[19:07] <jay> even the windows machines i maintain aren't going to have sp2 installed on them right now
[19:08] <jay> so go run linux then
[19:08] <mikeDOTd> thanks for being a not-so-helpful troll
[19:08] <jay> says you anyway
[19:08] <jay> u can't search for it?
[19:09] <mikeDOTd> i have been, like i said
[19:09] <jay> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=winxp+sp2+open+connections+registry&btnG=Google+Search
[19:09] <jay> here's a start
[19:09] <jay> http://forum.edonkey.com/viewtopic.php?t=68189
[19:09] <toad_> iakin.dyndns.org
[19:09] <toad_> MRI 70ms
[19:09] <jay> wow 2 seaches i found it
[19:09] <jay> mikeDOTd: don't be lazy
[19:09] <toad_> average request interval 4 seconds
[19:09] <toad_> nearly 5 seconds in facxt
[19:10] <Jarod> heh
[19:10] <toad_> estimate is pretty crap though...
[19:10] <mikeDOTd> jay: don't be a prick
[19:10] <toad_> Probability of QueryRejected 0.288 (712 0s, 288 1s, 1000 total)
[19:10] <toad_> Estimated time for QueryRejected 1573.4337878808242
[19:10] <toad_> Probability of early timeout 0.586 (414 0s, 586 1s, 1000 total)
[19:10] <toad_> Estimated time for early timeout 18243.68381338855
[19:10] <toad_> Probability of search failure (late timeout) 0.873 (127 0s, 873 1s, 1000 total)
[19:10] <toad_> Estimated time for search failure 3750ms
[19:10] <toad_> Overall probability of DataNotFound 0.8827160493827161 (19 0s, 143 1s, 162 total)
[19:11] <Jarod> damn
[19:11] <toad_> Routing hits 1395
[19:11] <Jarod> my node is still broke as shit
[19:11] <toad_> Total hits 3779
[19:11] <toad_> that's why... it sucks
[19:11] * toad_ hrrm
[19:11] <toad_> how can the probability of early timeout POSSIBLY be that high?
[19:11] <Jarod> that seems basically what I am finding
[19:11] <Jarod> hehe
[19:12] <toad_> <KenMan> ugh - the mRI running average for this peer has not really recovered. Still sitting at 483ms. And he is the one sending in HALF of the queries I have received for the past 40 minutes :( I have 70 peers !!
[19:12] <toad_> eh
[19:12] <toad_> how is that possible? if other nodes use their quota they will get queries too
[19:12] * osh__ is back to 3 open connections... =(
[19:12] <Jarod> I have 20
[19:12] <jay> mikeDOTd: you're welcome for the help
[19:13] <toad_> <KenMan> nasty - for some reason i just sent out an mRI of 3ms , even though the average typical at that time was around 136sec :o - that's strange...
[19:13] <toad_> <KenMan> dang, my node is still eating ALL of this unfortunate node's traffic . Just imagine if I was doing something malicious !!
[19:13] <toad_> that's wierd
[19:13] <toad_> I mean, there IS a minimum...
[19:13] <toad_> effectively
[19:13] <toad_> remember the formulas?
[19:15] <osh__> This is what I get whenever I try go go anywhere: "The request couldn't even make it off of your node." No fun. ;-(
[19:16] <toad_> <KenMan> Jarod: there is no magic button you can press to rapidly and magically improve your experience. This software takes time to do what it does. - the best argument IMHO for fixed size key data is that of bootstrapping
[19:16] <Jarod> hmm
[19:16] <Jarod> my datastore is nearly filled
[19:16] <Jarod> 17megs short
[19:17] <toad_> <Jarod> what if a node goes down temporarily, and comes back up, does it have to relearn? - no, not if it's for a short time
[19:18] <Jarod> how short?
[19:18] <toad_> <hobx> Of course, no routing yet, but it should only fall by an order of magnitude or two really. - are you simulating any form of rate limiting or load?
[19:18] <Jarod> a few minutes, hours, days?
[19:18] <jay> anything less than 1 hour should be ok
[19:18] <jay> there's no time limit really
[19:19] <hobx> toad_: I'm not even simulating freenet.
[19:19] <Jarod> but as time increases, that increases the liklihood the node will be out of sync?
[19:19] <jay> the longer you're away, the more stale your node becomes in everyone elses route tables
[19:19] <Jarod> ah
[19:19] <jay> Jarod: yup
[19:19] <Jarod> would it take a node like that, less time to get reaquainted?
[19:20] <toad_> <Redb3ard> non-server versions of windows have always had that 10 open connections limit - they don't limit it to 10 open conns. I have no idea about half-open.
[19:20] <hobx> But if I ever get to freenet I have more fundamental questions in mind.
[19:20] <jay> Jarod: like what?
[19:20] <jay> toad_: is that true?
[19:20] <jay> NT workstation had that limit?
[19:21] <Jarod> I mean, whatever the time it took to get freenet working efficiently, if that node went offline for 5 hours and came back and was out of sync, would it have to go through that whole process again, or would it take like an hour or two to get organized?
[19:21] <jay> Jarod: it would take less time since most of the data would probably be relatively fresh
[19:21] <toad_> <mikeDOTd> i found info on the outbound connection limitations sp2 introduces, but haven't found a fix - the fix isn't strictly necessary. it doesn't limit you to 10 conns total, just 10 conn opens at a time
[19:21] <Jarod> I thought it limited the numbers of conections/second
[19:21] <Jarod> not the total overall
[19:22] <toad_> jay: if you have to use windows, install the patches...
[19:22] <jay> toad_: i didn't ask that question actually
[19:22] <jay> i didn't know *all* non-server releases from MS had that limit
[19:23] <jay> meaning all the ppl i knew running NT workstation as servers were practically killing themselves
[19:24] <jay> im in no rush to install SP2 personally
[19:24] <toad_> jay: I doubt it but I don't know
[19:24] <jay> i should ask Redb3ard instead
[19:25] <toad_> jay: if you don't want to install patches, don't run windows
[19:25] <toad_> in fact, don't run a PC :)
[19:25] <jay> exactly
[19:25] <toad_> and certainly stay off the internet
[19:25] <jay> just give up on software altogether
[19:25] <jay> heh i might even do that one day
[19:25] <toad_> granted you can protect your windows PCs slightly by keeping them behind a firewall... but it's not enough...
[19:26] <toad_> hmmm
[19:26] <toad_> iakin isn't here... why?
[19:26] <toad_> KenMan isn't either
[19:26] <toad_> how irritating
[19:26] * jay pokes KenMan
[19:26] <jay> he's not responding
[19:28] <jay> toad_: are u expecting them?
[19:29] <toad_> http://swpat.ffii.org/xatra/cons0406/
[19:32] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) has joined #freenet
[19:32] <toad_> obviously you, your family, your dog, and everyone you know, if they are in europe, should sign the petition IMMEDIATELY
[19:33] <toad_> the url again: http://swpat.ffii.org/xatra/cons0406/ :)
[19:34] <toad_> argh
[19:34] <toad_> the membership system is messed up
[19:35] <jay> how ironic
[19:36] * supermannn (~kdfjk@69.93.172.10) has joined #freenet
[19:36] * TLF (francisco@38.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[19:36] <toad_> you can access it
[19:37] <toad_> but only via "forgot your password"
[19:37] <toad_> even when you reset your password, and copy it in, it doesn't work
[19:38] <salahx> gues that had to take it down, since auntication via password over the web is patented :)
[19:40] <jay> heh
[19:41] <toad_> it is?
[19:42] <jay> probably
[19:42] <jay> it's conceivable that double-clicking is patented
[19:43] <supermannn> is there a way to browse the files in your store
[19:43] <Jarod> nope
[19:43] <Jarod> that defeats the purpose
[19:44] <toad_> LOL http://kwiki.ffii.org/Iraq040724En
[19:45] <supermannn> i dont like patents
[19:46] <toad_> In these same patent lawyer rallies where Bolkestein feels at home, the "misinformers" (also called "detractors" or "open source and anti-globalisation movement" by Bolkestein) are always carefully excluded from participation.
[19:46] <toad_> ROFL
[19:46] <toad_> yeah, people like IBM !
[19:46] <toad_> http://swpat.ffii.org/players/bolkestein/#swpat
[19:49] * greycat (rfc1413@wooledge.org) has joined #freenet
[19:49] * misterE (~chatzilla@pool-68-160-230-18.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #freenet
[19:50] <jay> i dont like pants either
[19:50] <misterE> can someone give me a hand setting up freenet? i'm a newb to this network and can't get it to connect to a portal
[19:51] <misterE> i get "couldn't retrieve key: <key>" Data Not Found
[19:51] * toad_ hmmm
[19:51] <toad_> jay: pants are either useful, or a necessary evil
[19:51] <toad_> depending on which way you look at them
[19:52] <jay> i vote necessary evil
[19:52] <toad_> software patents on the other hand are a key part of the War on Independant Thought
[19:52] <jay> toad_: the war was one years ago ;)
[19:52] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> necessary evil remains evil!
[19:52] <jay> this is all just between victories
[19:52] <jay> err one=won
[19:53] <toad_> hmmm, interesting: http://kwiki.ffii.org/DavidSainsburyEn
[19:53] <jay> well one doesn't have to look far to find evil
[19:53] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> the shortest point between two defeats is a victory!
[19:53] <toad_> jay: well okay then the War for Intellectual Property and Corporate Control of Cyberspace and against Open Source and other Threats to Capitalism
[19:53] <misterE> erm, anyone?
[19:53] <jay> misterE: just ask and someone might have an answer
[19:53] <toad_> misterE: hi
[19:53] <toad_> misterE: what's your problem?
[19:54] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hmmm...also interesting: http://newsbyte.blogspot.com/
[19:54] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ;-)
[19:54] <misterE> misterE can someone give me a hand setting up freenet? i'm a newb to this network and can't get it to connect to a portal
[19:54] <misterE> misterE i get "couldn't retrieve key: <key>" Data Not Found
[19:54] <toad_> jay: seriously, it may only be a minor wart on the beast... but if you're in europe, you can probably do something about it. And it is a significant part of one of the major battles of our time.
[19:54] <toad_> misterE: Data not found is better than route not found
[19:54] <toad_> it should start working soon ;)
[19:54] <jay> toad_: i hear ya.. if i were a Euro-zen i would do it
[19:54] <misterE> lol
[19:55] <misterE> ok
[19:55] <misterE> how long does it usually take to...break in over DSL?
[19:55] <misterE> ah, now it's saying route not found
[19:55] <misterE> heh
[19:55] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> we have a small, yet quite possible chance of stopping softwarepatents, still
[19:55] <toad_> misterE: a day
[19:55] <jay> i've also realized that i could actually live a life taking issue with the things i found to be evil
[19:55] <toad_> ish
[19:56] <jay> but that this life would be a life of misery (for me anyway)
[19:56] <toad_> jay: heh
[19:56] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> we have a small, yet quite possible chance of stopping softwarepatents, still
[19:56] <jay> perhaps my masters would rather i spent my time addicted and just wasting my time
[19:56] <toad_> sometimes you can make a difference
[19:56] <toad_> if you can't make a difference, ignore it
[19:56] <toad_> if you can, and if it's one of the really troublesome things, do it
[19:56] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> jay, I take it this is the winter of your discontent? ;-)
[19:56] <jay> toad_: i agree with that
[19:57] <jay> Newsbyte: take it that i am becoming less and less discontent as time goes on ;)
[19:57] <misterE> toad: it's saying route not found now :(
[19:57] <misterE> when it retries it switches between the two, so should i assume it'll start workin better in a day or so?
[19:57] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I agree with everything that toad says, as long as he begins on that testnetwork
[19:58] <Jarod> is the content for many of the links on the main page, broke or something?
[19:58] <Jarod> I can't understand why so many things don't work, heh
[19:58] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> mister, 'assume' is not the right word. More correct would be 'hope' :-)
[19:58] <salahx> he just hit the DBR rollover 15 minutes ago
[19:58] <misterE> lol
[19:59] <misterE> so...is it worth the hassle?
[19:59] <jay> Jarod: it's midnight UTC time
[19:59] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> broke? What are all these questions? Is freenet-opn overrun by noobs? ;-)
[19:59] <jay> Jarod: meaning DBR sites have just switched over to the next day
[19:59] <Jarod> oh
[19:59] <Jarod> hmm
[19:59] <Jarod> how do you know if a site is DBR?
[19:59] <jay> if someone hasn't inserted their site for the next day, you'll get data not found
[19:59] <jay> Jarod: it usually says in the index
[20:00] <Jarod> well, if it doesn't, is there any easy way to tell?
[20:00] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> sigh. Don't you people read the wiki?
[20:00] <Jarod> wiki
[20:00] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it's all on www.freenethelp.org
[20:00] <Jarod> where's the wiki?
[20:00] <jay> Jarod: or you'll see Date Based Redirect somewhere to clue you
[20:00] <Jarod> ha
[20:00] <jay> heh
[20:00] * Jarod goes to read the wiki
[20:00] <jay> yeah rtfm ;)
[20:00] <supermannn> whats the fastest sustained download rate youve had on splitfiles?
[20:01] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> jay:lol
[20:01] <salahx> I once got a 150 MB+ fiel at full downlaopd speed
[20:01] <jay> i finally saw "End of Suburbia" yesterday
[20:01] <supermannn> salahx at full download speed? what the heck is that
[20:01] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well...I mean, if they start with questions like 'how do you see if it's a DBR?", then the wiki still can learn them a lot
[20:01] <supermannn> jay i cancelled it, it was too slow
[20:01] <salahx> 1.5 Mb/S
[20:01] <toad_> supermannn: ian saw 90kB/sec with 100 splitfile threads once...
[20:02] <toad_> salahx: megabits?
[20:02] <supermannn> 90 wow
[20:02] <salahx> Yep
[20:02] <jay> supermannn: it took about 2-3 hours to retrieve the whole thing for me
[20:02] <supermannn> im doing experiments. ive got 2 splitfiles going with 90 conn a piece, and i get 20-30KB/sec total
[20:03] <jay> Newsbyte: i need a username to log into the wiki with if i want to update it at al
[20:03] <supermannn> most of the individual connections are going at like .4KB/sec, max one is 5KB
[20:04] <supermannn> hmm 2-3 hours?
[20:04] <supermannn> how big is the file
[20:04] <jay> aroun 100M
[20:04] <supermannn> oh
[20:05] <supermannn> i thought it was bigger
[20:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> jay, what the heck are you talking about? everyone can edit the wiki 'just like that' just fine...
[20:05] <jay> Newsbyte: i had to log into the old one on fp.org
[20:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what's fp.org?
[20:06] <jay> freenetproject.org
[20:06] <jay> remember the wiki there?
[20:06] <jay> perhaps before your time
[20:06] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> sure
[20:06] <jay> around the 0.3/0.4 transition
[20:06] <supermannn> is there a way to tell a splitfile to never fail, and keep trying?
[20:06] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> nope, I remember it quite good
[20:06] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> but then again, that wiki always sucked ;-)
[20:07] <supermannn> whats iip_i2p for
[20:07] <jay> supermannn: for people afraid to reveal themselves on normal irc ;)
[20:07] <supermannn> juse use tor
[20:07] <supermannn> whois me
[20:07] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I even remember the times before it there was a wiki...ah, tempus fugit and the rest
[20:08] <jay> tor for irc?
[20:08] <supermannn> sure why not
[20:08] <toad_> supermannn: you can make it try for a long time
[20:08] <toad_> by setting the max retries to 50
[20:08] <jay> supermannn: because it doesn't exist?
[20:08] <supermannn> toad_ heh, im using max retries 900 and it still fails eventually
[20:08] <jay> iip is an anonymous irc proxy of sorts
[20:08] <supermannn> jay uhhm, really? whois me
[20:08] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> in any case, you can edit the www.freenethelp.org wiki just fine, so you have no more excususes for your apparent laziness! ;-)
[20:09] <toad_> supermannn: you could try FUQID
[20:09] <jay> yeah check out fcplib and tell me who's been hacking at that monster
[20:10] <jay> Newsbyte: all programmers are lazy when i comes to documentation
[20:10] <jay> Newsbyte: come to think of it, i've *never* written any documentation for any code i've written professionally
[20:10] <jay> we had docwriters for that
[20:10] <supermannn> i hope you comment it at least
[20:11] <jay> comment yes, but not separate documentation
[20:11] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I'm all too aware of that. Take toad; he barely edited some words on 2 or 3 pages!
[20:11] <jay> it hurts my head to go back and forth between coding and documenting
[20:11] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what's superman trying with his whois? doesn't he know I'm on IIP?
[20:12] <jay> one is technical, the other is english
[20:12] <jay> Newsbyte: he's just figuring out all this privacy / anon stuff
[20:12] <Iakin> [01:29] <toad_> iakin.dyndns.org
[20:12] <Iakin> [01:29] <toad_> MRI 70ms
[20:12] <jay> supermannn: if you 'whois' Newsbyte what will you see?
[20:13] <toad_> Iakin: hi
[20:13] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well, good luck to him ;-)
[20:13] <toad_> read the rest...
[20:13] <Iakin> Hmm.. now what node is _that_
[20:13] <supermannn> jay i understand using a bot as a relay between iip and irc. i just dont know why, when you whois me you do not see my ip
[20:13] <Iakin> I haven't even that alias registered yet
[20:13] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> anyway, bad documentation is one of the major drawbacks of the project, if you ask me
[20:13] <jay> 69.93.172.10 isn'
[20:13] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> and also if you don't :-)
[20:13] <jay> supermannn: isn't your ip?
[20:14] <supermannn> jay no way
[20:14] <supermannn> my ip starts with a 1 :)
[20:14] <jay> 192.168.x.x ?
[20:14] <supermannn> lol no
[20:14] <supermannn> and not 127.0.0.1 either
[20:14] <jay> heh
[20:14] <jay> ah ok
[20:14] <Iakin> toad: What ip do you have for that node?
[20:14] <supermannn> jay im using tor
[20:15] <toad_> Iakin: hi
[20:15] * toad_ checks
[20:15] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> we need some sanity around here
[20:15] <toad_> tcp/iakin.poweruser.org:37878
[20:15] <toad_> it's connected
[20:15] <toad_> therefore it MUST be 194.236.28.174
[20:15] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I'm almost feeling sorry I mentionned the htl-issue on the maillist
[20:16] <jay> supermannn: sure about that?
[20:16] <Iakin> ah, that is the very one
[20:16] <Iakin> but you said dyndns.org ;)
[20:16] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> now, you are going to spend another 2 weeks dealing with this, aren't you, toad?
[20:16] <Iakin> toad, that node is the one with the timeout logs
[20:16] <supermannn> jay positive. if i close tor right now i will be disconnected, and the whois reports an ip that is nothing like my true one.
[20:16] <toad_> Iakin: the stats say your node has a good pDNF, but an excessively high pEarlyTimeout and a nontrivial pQR... and an unremarkable if not a little high pSearchFailure i.e. pRNF
[20:17] <toad_> Newsbyte: dealing with what/
[20:17] <toad_> have you been reading devl lately?
[20:17] <Iakin> What does pEarlyTimeout mean then?
[20:17] <jay> tor runs on windows?
[20:17] <toad_> Iakin: the probability of a timeout... i think it's a timeout before we send the Accepted
[20:17] <toad_> which is a little nuts...
[20:17] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what haven't I been reading? ;-)
[20:17] <supermannn> jay yes sir, if you want it to
[20:18] <Iakin> Hmmm.. at least your mRI seems right..
[20:18] <jay> supermannn: that's the machine being reported for your ip
[20:18] <jay> it's a windows box running all kids of crap
[20:18] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I have read your remarks, if that's what you wanna ask
[20:18] <jay> prolly easy to hack but i wouldn't know
[20:18] <toad_> yup
[20:18] <toad_> Newsbyte: and my plans for world domination?
[20:18] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ofcourse, in essence, hobx is right
[20:18] <supermannn> jay id love to see how you are talking to my box when you dont know my ip
[20:18] <Iakin> Hmmm.. a timeout before we send the Accepted.. anything I can check at my end?
[20:19] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> the only real solution is premixing
[20:19] <jay> supermannn: i said, the ip being "reported" (by tor) as your box is running windows
[20:19] <jay> ami wrong?
[20:19] <supermannn> jay are you just ctcping me?
[20:19] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that said, in a go-between, the htl-thingy solved would be good too
[20:19] <jay> supermannn: heh no
[20:20] <toad_> interesting... my stable node has got a LOT of the pages linked from the first section on TFE...
[20:20] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I don't like your proposal too much, though, toad, for the reasons mentionned in my post
[20:20] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I don't like your proposal too much, though, toad, for the reasons mentionned in my post
[20:20] <toad_> the ones with alinks, or which i chose anyway
[20:20] <iip_i2p> <oOo> Tor 0.7 was ported to MSVC (that's not what I call a Windows port, but...), last time I checked, they needed to redo it fore 0.8 (and 0.7 could be softly modified to be cygwin, BTW)
[20:20] <toad_> alinks that load
[20:20] <toad_> Iakin: hmmm
[20:20] <supermannn> jay well its not my box.
[20:20] <toad_> Iakin: messageSendTime, perhaps?
[20:20] <jay> supermannn: i believe you
[20:21] <supermannn> Aug 18 19:54:28.000 [notice] Tor v0.0.7. This is experimental software.
[20:21] <supermannn> Aug 18 19:54:32.000 [notice] Tor has successfully opened a circuit.
[20:21] <toad_> heh, just like people calling freenet 5.1 :)
[20:21] <toad_> instead of 0.5.1
[20:21] <supermannn> heh
[20:21] <toad_> Iakin: what's your messageSendTime?
[20:21] <toad_> what's your bandwidth usage?
[20:21] * misterE (~chatzilla@pool-68-160-230-18.ny325.east.verizon.net) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040113]")
[20:22] <Iakin> toad, something like 0.5 of 2MBit/s
[20:22] <toad_> interesting
[20:22] <toad_> adjacent nodes in the RT have very low pEarlyTimeout
[20:22] <toad_> what on earth is wrong with your node?
[20:22] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes...speaking of which....
[20:22] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> when is 0.6 comming?
[20:23] <toad_> doesn't seem to be correlated with 60200 either...
[20:23] <Iakin> messageSendTimeRequest seems to be around 60 ms or so
[20:23] <toad_> Newsbyte: when it's ready. when it's better than 0.5.0 was, BEFORE it was released - which was pretty good.
[20:23] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it's not a real testnode, that's wrong with it
[20:23] <toad_> Iakin: peeks?
[20:24] <Iakin> or well, make that 200ms or so for some reason
[20:24] <jay> oOo: so tor doesn't compile out of the box in msvc 6?
[20:24] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-402418b2.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) has joined #freenet
[20:24] <toad_> the pQueryRejected is interesting too... what's your localQueryTraffic ratio like?
[20:24] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> toad...is that an eufemistic way to say: "Never!" ? ;-)
[20:24] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> toad...is that an eufemistic way to say: "Never!" ? ;-)
[20:25] <toad_> the pSearchFailed is half-expected... unless you have a huge RT, you're bound to have lots of backoff on that link...
[20:25] <toad_> Newsbyte: no
[20:25] <toad_> Newsbyte: as in "doom 3 will come out when it's done"
[20:25] <Jarod> hmm
[20:25] <Jarod> ok this is wierd
[20:25] <toad_> s/come out/be released/
[20:25] <Jarod> now graphics that used to load, aren't loading
[20:25] <salahx> More like "When Duke Nukem Forever is fone" :)
[20:25] <Iakin> toad: arond 60kqph
[20:26] <toad_> Iakin: ratio?
[20:26] <Iakin> Interestingly enough my node seems to be more utilized at this time of the day
[20:26] <Iakin> 1.0
[20:26] <toad_> always 1.0?
[20:26] <toad_> that IS wierd...
[20:26] <toad_> anyway
[20:26] <Iakin> With some dip to 0.99 an hour or two/day
[20:26] <toad_> pEarlyTimeout is the main concern
[20:26] <toad_> pQR might be a byproduct of QRs due to RNFs...
[20:27] <jay> the "i love you" thread on Dev is funny
[20:27] <toad_> okay, how to approach this...
[20:28] <toad_> iakin's node has according to my RT a pEarlyTimeout of over 50%
[20:28] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> so, anyways, I dunno what it was anymore, but I remember a bet I made about some thingy, THA bugfix or feature that would solve everything. Has it the network become better yet? ;-)
[20:28] <Iakin> toad: I am pretty sure that my node doesn't have the ability to relay all those queries somewhere (if needed)
[20:28] <Iakin> leading to excessive RNF's
[20:28] <toad_> other nodes in the RT nearby don't have the same pEarlyTimeout, they have much lower ones
[20:28] <toad_> therefore it's not a local problem
[20:28] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hmm, no come to think of it, the latest (in a whole row) was the quequeing thingy, and I doubt you already finished that...
[20:28] <toad_> i can understand pSearchFailed...
[20:29] <toad_> Newsbyte: I haven't started yet
[20:29] <toad_> Newsbyte: but I never promised the network would start working after feature X
[20:29] <toad_> Newsbyte: and I spend most of my time bugfixing
[20:29] <toad_> until I run into a major structural change that seems to be more productive than the latest minor bugfix
[20:29] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> you didn't *start* yet?
[20:29] <toad_> Newsbyte: no, I've been messing with other bugs
[20:29] <jay> ssh portscans: http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2004-07-28
[20:30] <toad_> such as this one
[20:30] <toad_> often they are quite profitable
[20:30] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> you said you were going to go for it, and that was over a week ago!
[20:30] <toad_> i've plotted out the microarchitecture, more or less
[20:30] <toad_> i'll start it when i get around to it
[20:30] <jay> yeah don't fix the bugs just keep adding stuff
[20:30] <jay> some bugs are cute
[20:31] <toad_> Iakin: you have no idea why pEarlyTimeout would be higher for your node?
[20:31] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well, we should be thankfull for the small things, I guess
[20:31] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> like an activelink...even when not working ;-)
[20:31] <toad_> okay, it's not a product of it being used either...
[20:31] * Iakin ups the ds size another 10 gig
[20:31] <toad_> nearby node with more hits... has lower pEarlyTimeout
[20:32] <Iakin> toad: Nope..
[20:32] <toad_> it is rather strange how infrequently it is accessed...
[20:32] <Iakin> But then again, I am not so very sure what pEarlyTimeout means ;)
[20:32] <toad_> i know it sucks re routing...
[20:32] <toad_> Iakin: timeout occurred while waiting for Accepted
[20:33] <Iakin> Yea, but why on earth would my node cause timeouts?
[20:33] <toad_> it's not a measurement bug either...
[20:33] <Iakin> It has bw enough to deliver all messages that is supposed to be sent
[20:34] <toad_> and the messageSendTime is pretty low
[20:34] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it just seems weird, you and a grain of sanity were all worked up about it, and after a week, there has not been started with... Not that I'm complaining about your productivity (well...;-p), but bugfixing is a never ending work, and you can't wait on that to go further
[20:34] <Iakin> yup
[20:34] <toad_> Newsbyte: SOME of the bugs MATTER
[20:34] <Iakin> (at least the mean)
[20:34] <toad_> what's the peak
[20:34] <toad_> minute peak value?
[20:34] <Iakin> w8
[20:34] <toad_> in the maximum column?
[20:35] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> let's not forget, after the quequeing, you still have to do the htl-solution, and after that the fixed small size chunks, and after that the pre-mixing, and after that the data-store encryption, and...
[20:36] <Iakin> interesting. messageSendTime spikes up and down a bit
[20:36] <Iakin> there are some maximum times of a couple of seconds
[20:36] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> and, last but not least, let's also not forget the testnetwork
[20:37] <Iakin> have some 8 and some 10 seconds maximums
[20:37] <Iakin> and one 16
[20:38] <toad_> even 10 seconds shouldn't be catastrophic...
[20:38] <toad_> 16 might...
[20:39] <toad_> Newsbyte: so your point is I should completely ignore the mailing lists and the users?
[20:39] <toad_> the thought had occurred to me :)
[20:39] <Iakin> toad, I send you an mail
[20:40] <toad_> Content of message to send
[20:40] <toad_> DataRequest
[20:40] <toad_> RequestInterval=12427.456631673542
[20:40] <toad_> HopsToLive=10
[20:40] <toad_> UniqueID=1b837e4e9f8acde6
[20:40] <toad_> SearchKey=81e66f0fa70644898736a00e985542117a6ea1e5120302
[20:40] <Iakin> look at the bw graph..
[20:40] <toad_> EndMessage
[20:40] <toad_> WTF? how did RequestInterval get there?
[20:40] <Jarod> I think my node is really messed up
[20:40] <Iakin> toad, check those interesting dips in bw usage the graph shows
[20:40] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> toad...what? You mean you don't already??!! ;-)
[20:41] <toad_> Iakin: where?
[20:42] <Iakin> in your mail
[20:42] <toad_> Newsbyte: we're having this conversation aren't we?
[20:42] <Iakin> there should be a jpg there
[20:42] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> in his mail? How can *we* see it, then?
[20:42] <toad_> Iakin: how high are those spikes?
[20:43] <Iakin> both inbound and outbound bw dips to 0 now and then..
[20:43] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> this is not a mailinglist, and I'm (currently) not a user, and anyway, you are hardly listening to me ;-)
[20:43] <Iakin> toad, % of 100MBit/s
[20:43] <toad_> so peak about 1.5%?
[20:44] <Iakin> so the peaks are at something like 1.5MBit/s
[20:44] <toad_> which is about 1.5Mbps
[20:44] <Iakin> red is out, yellow is in
[20:44] * toad_ has a suspicion that the pEarlyTimeout is bogus... not being written at all perhaps...
[20:44] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> can't you just show the spike?
[20:44] <Iakin> me?
[20:45] * toad_ checking the logs - 1 request got Accepted, one got QR, another got QR...
[20:45] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> can't you just show the image, I mean
[20:45] <toad_> and another got QR
[20:45] * supermannn (~kdfjk@69.93.172.10) has left #freenet
[20:45] <toad_> apparently due to looped request
[20:46] <Iakin> nb: iakin.poweruser.org/freenetstuff/bw.jpg
[20:46] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I thought about keeping my third puter, with your ram in it, for the testnetwork, but at this pace...
[20:47] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> maybe I could set it up as perm node, but heck...that's not much of use
[20:47] <Iakin> toad_: yea, I sometimes see looped request QR's occurring in the logs
[20:47] <toad_> hmmm
[20:47] <toad_> it's all there...
[20:47] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> is it?
[20:48] <toad_> ANOTHER request got QR, reason=looped request
[20:48] <toad_> interesting...
[20:48] <toad_> and another one
[20:49] <toad_> ah, one got Accepted
[20:49] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what about the node?
[20:50] <toad_> looks like pQueryRejected recently has been much higher than the average over the last 1000 requests
[20:50] <toad_> another one got QR...
[20:50] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes, but what about the node?
[20:50] <Iakin> what?
[20:51] <toad_> lots and lots of QRs
[20:51] <toad_> all reason Looped request
[20:51] <toad_> so your node is part of so many requests that it ends up rejecting tons of them as looped !
[20:52] * toad_ skips forward in time a bit and searches again...
[20:52] <Iakin> hmm.. /me thinks he should probably start accounting QR's by-the-type in the messageAccounter in the ocm
[20:52] <toad_> one got Accepted
[20:52] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> Is it of any more-then-average use to set up a node on it?
[20:53] <toad_> ANOTHER one got QRd reason=Looped request...
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[20:53] <toad_> Newsbyte: on what? how fast is it?
[20:53] <toad_> Newsbyte: it would share the inet conn?
[20:53] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> the one I talked about earlier, with your ram
[20:54] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes
[20:54] <toad_> and another one got QR reason=looped...
[20:54] <toad_> Newsbyte: how fast CPU? ram is 256?
[20:54] <toad_> hmmm
[20:54] <khafra> Is there a meta-help channel to direct people to various channels that could help them? I've been reading through the /list for 30 minutes and haven't seen anything that'll help me with COM calls to Excel
[20:54] <Iakin> ok, I gtg.. need to get some sleep
[20:54] <toad_> at least we know now that having requests die on the first QR would be insane
[20:55] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hmm...duno exactly, an oldie, but you said it could manage. AMD-K6-3 or something, I think
[20:55] <toad_> khafra: not surprising on this network...
[20:55] <khafra> I know it's more *nix oriented
[20:55] <toad_> Newsbyte: as long as you have a recent jar, sure
[20:56] <khafra> But #help on Efnet isn't too good either, and the Neowin forums were no help, which made them similar to the MSDN site
[20:56] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes, but would it be USEFULL (apart from the there-is-another-node-running way)?
[20:56] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I mean, how are you going to update it, for instance?
[20:56] <toad_> Newsbyte: I don't know
[20:57] * toad_ closes the Case of the F*cked Up Ubernode... no further action... :)
[20:58] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> if I gave you ftp-access, would that do any good?
[20:58] <toad_> Newsbyte: it might eventually be useful for testnet
[20:58] <toad_> so keep it around
[20:58] <khafra> Oh, this is about the freenet unobservable filesharing network, heh, sorry
[20:58] <khafra> Although..
[20:59] <khafra> I've got NAT running, and multiple interfaces, on win2k3, and Freenet won't run
[20:59] <khafra> Well, it won't connect
[20:59] <khafra> It'll run
[20:59] <toad_> if you want to set up a node on it, and give me ssh, that'd be potentially useful... i'll make a file with all the ssh accesses i';ve accumulated
[20:59] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> indeed, khaf, indeed. I was already thinking by myself: what is that dude talking about?! ;-)
[20:59] <toad_> khafra: hmmm
[20:59] <toad_> khafra: what happens? Route not Found?
[21:00] <khafra> I'm not in front of that machine, so I can't quite remember--but it's something along those lines, or node cannot connect to anything
[21:00] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yeah...I could keep it for the testnetwork, but then, it won't be used for a decenium, or such...
[21:01] <toad_> khafra: perfectly normal at the moment for firewalled nodes with uptime of less than 48 hours or so :(
[21:01] <toad_> Newsbyte: a what?
[21:01] <khafra> Oh, really? So if I just leave it running for a couple days it'll find some other nodes?
[21:01] <toad_> khafra: yes, even firewalled
[21:01] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that said, just running a node seeems a bit meager, for a dedicated (sort of) machine
[21:01] <toad_> but ideally you should forward the listenPort
[21:02] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> toad: a full ten years ;-)
[21:02] <khafra> Cool, that's no problem then. I just thought with the exclamation mark on the icon, it had some kind of permanent error
[21:02] <toad_> khafra: hmmm
[21:02] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hmm..isn't there a way of making my node part of your little private testnetwork?
[21:02] <toad_> khafra: can you get to http://127.0.0.1:8888/ ?
[21:03] <toad_> the Web Interface page?
[21:03] <khafra> Yup, I can connect to my own node's web interface just fine
[21:03] <toad_> I don't know much about the windows tray icon thingy
[21:03] <toad_> anyway
[21:03] <toad_> bbl zzz
[21:04] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> or is that just super-local?
[21:04] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> or is that just super-local?
[21:06] <toad_> okay
[21:06] * toad_ going to commit what he has
[21:06] <toad_> then go to bed
[21:06] <toad_> tomorrow will probably make a start on queueing
[21:07] <toad_> hmm, or i could make a start _now_...
[21:07] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
[21:10] <khafra> Well, I'll give it a couple days of try when I get home--thanks
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[21:11] <toad_> committed 60201...
[21:13] <toad_> okay, so Pending.sendOn().... we would register ourselves on the QueueManager
[21:14] <toad_> and then it would send the request, or decide to RNF
[21:14] <toad_> either way it would return an internal-only message
[21:47] * greycat (rfc1413@wooledge.org) Quit ("Lick Bush in '04")
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[21:53] <toad_> okay, i've started it
[21:53] <toad_> i will be back tomorrow and make some more progress on it
[21:53] <toad_> it actually looks comparatively easy implementation-wise once the architecture is sorted out
[21:54] <toad_> bbl
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[22:19] <Jarod> my node knows of 385 other nodes
[22:19] <Jarod> 24 aren't contactable
[22:19] <Jarod> but, why on earth can't I retrieve anything
[22:22] <toad_> Jarod: how many are connected?
[22:22] * Overand_ (common@89.100.252.64.snet.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:23] <Jarod> 18
[22:23] <toad_> i've been able to fetch a whole load of stuff linked from TFE
[22:23] <toad_> Jarod: 18 isn't good
[22:23] <Jarod> it has risen and fallen
[22:23] <Jarod> used to be 26 at one point
[22:23] <toad_> it's not terrible, but 50 would be better...
[22:23] <toad_> hmmm curious
[22:24] <toad_> talk to you tomorrow about it, gtgb now
[22:24] <Jarod> ok
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These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.