Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:42] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@mazzanet.registered) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[1:22] * oierw` (mathew@cpe-69-75-112-240.hawaii.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[1:29] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@mazzanet.registered) has joined #freenet
[2:22] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@mazzanet.registered) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[2:22] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@mazzanet.registered) has joined #freenet
[3:08] * oierw` (mathew@cpe-69-75-112-240.hawaii.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[3:23] * jokern (~virus@213.184.217.12) Quit ()
[3:41] * TLF (francisco@195.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[3:42] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[3:43] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[3:43] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[3:47] * toad_ (toad@82-32-16-91.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[4:15] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[4:24] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[4:24] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[4:28] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[4:28] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[4:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[4:28] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[4:29] * TLF (francisco@195.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[4:31] * jokern (~virus@213.184.217.12) has joined #freenet
[4:31] <jokern> G`morning
[4:33] * TLF (francisco@195.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[5:05] * TLF (francisco@195.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[5:34] * spaetz (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #freenet
[5:38] * spaetz_ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #freenet
[5:38] * spaetz_ (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[5:42] * leex-ZZzz (~le@spc1-warr1-3-0-cust198.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) has joined #freenet
[5:43] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) has joined #FreeNet
[5:51] * leex-ZZzz is now known as leex-R-out
[5:51] <leex-R-out> cida
[5:51] <leex-R-out> lo all
[6:04] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@abd202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[6:04] * Ash-Foxeus (Hal-9000@abd202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[6:30] * TLF (francisco@32.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[6:38] * spaetz (~spaetz@217-162-197-136.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit ("Verlassend")
[7:32] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-232-206.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[7:44] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[7:44] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[7:44] * eyekon2 (foobar@64.147.163.245) has joined #freenet
[7:47] * adadad (random@badfish.securityminded.net) has joined #freenet
[7:47] * adadad (random@badfish.securityminded.net) Quit (SendQ exceeded)
[7:47] * adada (random@badfish.securityminded.net) has joined #freenet
[7:48] <adada> testing 1, 2, 3
[7:48] * adada (random@badfish.securityminded.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[7:53] * TLF (francisco@32.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[8:13] * eyekon2 (foobar@64.147.163.245) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[8:13] * iip_i2p (~changate@host.teitel.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[8:14] * TLF (francisco@100.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[8:16] * whattt (ioiroeirp@dialpool-210-214-108-140.maa.sify.net) has joined #freenet
[8:27] * moskawa23 (~Miranda@dsl-082-082-224-110.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[8:35] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-082-082-224-110.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[8:38] * iip_i2p (~changate@host.teitel.net) has joined #freenet
[8:57] * g4lt-sb100 (~galt@134.50.70.28) has joined #freenet
[8:57] * galt-away (~galt@g4lt.base.supporter.pdpc) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[9:03] * whattt1 (ioiroeirp@dialpool-210-214-109-126.maa.sify.net) has joined #freenet
[9:04] * whattt1 is now known as what
[9:07] * what (ioiroeirp@dialpool-210-214-109-126.maa.sify.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[9:15] * whattt (ioiroeirp@dialpool-210-214-108-140.maa.sify.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[9:16] <iip_i2p> <west234> hello
[9:18] <iip_i2p> <west234> i downloaded 10 megs with 5083, and 0 with 5091. Any comments
[9:19] <Iakin> ?
[9:19] <Iakin> What do you mean?
[9:21] <iip_i2p> <west234> i mean that 5091 doesn't work for me. And 5083 works much better. And i want to know why ???????
[9:22] <iip_i2p> <west234> i did every thing
[9:22] <TLF> well, i noted that 5091 works worst than 5090
[9:25] <iip_i2p> <west234> Actioly, 5091 from nodestatus looks very vell - 12 open connection. But it doesn't send anything and recieve
[9:27] <iip_i2p> <west234> Web interf. always says that routing not found, and i dont have connection to internet
[10:21] <leex-R-out> every one ant updateing
[10:33] * TLF (francisco@100.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[11:22] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-082-082-224-110.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[11:32] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-082-082-224-012.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[12:12] <leex-R-out> ?
[12:13] * leex-R-out is now known as leex-R
[12:13] <leex-R> any one around or more ideling
[12:14] * jokern (~virus@213.184.217.12) Quit ()
[12:14] <leex-R> no then
[12:15] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[12:15] <leex-R> heh
[12:15] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[12:15] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[12:15] * leex-R any one mine me talking to me self
[12:23] * leex-R (~le@spc1-warr1-3-0-cust198.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) has left #freenet
[12:30] <freedom15_> I am here leex
[12:30] <freedom15_> oh he left
[12:30] <freedom15_> oh well
[12:41] * ninja_ (~im10ninja@82-133-111-67.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("Reconnecting")
[12:42] * ninja_ (~im10ninja@3ffe:bc0:8000:0:0:0:0:3fab) has joined #freenet
[12:55] * toad_ (toad@82-32-16-91.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[12:56] <toad_> hi ppl
[13:05] * goatee (~goatee@ip216-239-87-183.vif.net) Quit ("Leaving")
[13:19] * kers (~kers@162.ppp144.rsd.worldonline.se) has joined #freenet
[13:19] <Iakin> hello toad
[13:32] * goatee (~goatee@ip216-239-87-183.vif.net) has joined #freenet
[13:36] <toad_> hi Iakin
[13:36] <toad_> Iakin: I'm coming to the conclusion that premix routing is impossible without making major design compromizes
[13:37] <toad_> we can't do small-fixed-filesizes without it
[13:37] <toad_> and we can't really claim any serious level of anonymity either without it
[13:37] <toad_> i suppose i ought to summon up jrandom to talk about it...
[13:44] <toad_> <toad_> jrandom: here?
[13:44] <toad_> <jrandom> si sr, whats shakin?
[13:44] <toad_> <toad_> hi jr
[13:44] <toad_> <toad_> problem:
[13:44] <toad_> <toad_> we'd like to go to fixed-size small keys. But that greatly increases our vulnerability to correlation attacks. We can fix this and other things with premix routing. But I'm coming to the conclusion that premix routing on freenet is impossible without major design compromizes.
[13:46] * ninja_ (~im10ninja@3ffe:bc0:8000:0:0:0:0:3fab) Quit ("Reconnecting")
[13:46] * ninja_ (~im10ninja@3ffe:bc0:8000:0:0:0:0:3fab) has joined #freenet
[14:01] * leex-R (~le@spc1-warr1-3-0-cust198.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) has joined #freenet
[14:01] <leex-R> any one around
[14:01] <kers> i
[14:01] <kers> hi
[14:02] <kers> s/i/hi/
[14:04] <leex-R> ?
[14:06] <leex-R> new ver out 96
[14:06] <toad_> hi
[14:06] <leex-R> updateing nodes
[14:06] <leex-R> lo toad_
[14:07] <leex-R> has you fixed the time out errors
[14:10] <toad_> which ones?
[14:12] <leex-R> 120000 time outs
[14:13] <leex-R> waited more than 120000ms in NIOIS.read() tcp/connection: 1825>222.159.51.153:14842,freenet.transport.tcpConnection@1f459c2:freenet.support.io.NIOInputStream@130f268- closing
[14:13] <leex-R> java.lang.Exception: debug
[14:13] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[14:13] <leex-R> with unstable 96
[14:13] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-082-082-224-012.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[14:13] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[14:13] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[14:13] <leex-R> lo
[14:14] * TLF (francisco@203.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[14:15] * moskau23 (~Miranda@dsl-082-082-224-012.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[14:18] <leex-R> dodada
[14:18] <leex-R> ?
[14:24] * leex-R (~le@spc1-warr1-3-0-cust198.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[15:06] <Iakin> Hmm.. seems like CPU usage have increased 2-3 times during the last 10 build
[15:06] <Iakin> s
[15:06] * ShaunMacPherson (~ShaunMac@Sudbury-HSE-ppp3980474.sympatico.ca) has joined #freenet
[15:08] <Iakin> Hmm2.. seems like 50-70% of all threads in my node stands waiting for a chunk
[15:08] <Iakin> at
[15:08] <Iakin> "YThread-18" prio=5 tid=0x00b2fd10 nid=0xf28 in Object.wait() [0x03f7f000..0x03f7f9e8]
[15:08] <Iakin> at java.lang.Object.wait(Native Method)
[15:08] <Iakin> at freenet.TrailerReaderInputStream.read(TrailerReaderInputStream.java:74)
[15:08] <Iakin> - locked <0x0d62b3a0> (a freenet.TrailerReaderInputStream)
[15:08] <Iakin> at freenet.support.io.VerifyingInputStream.read(VerifyingInputStream.java:86)
[15:08] <Iakin> problably just to time out..
[15:13] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[15:22] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[15:22] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[15:23] <Redb3ard> another assdot (|). story on wiretapping the internet
[15:29] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[15:38] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[15:38] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[15:48] * piranha (~piranha@192.220.223.15) has joined #freenet
[15:56] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-232-206.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[16:16] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-232-070.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[16:37] * leex-R (~le@spc1-warr1-3-0-cust198.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) has joined #freenet
[16:38] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@abd202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[16:38] * Ash-Foxeus (Hal-9000@aah162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[16:40] <leex-R> lots happering today
[16:42] <Redb3ard> yeh
[16:42] <Redb3ard> for sure
[16:42] <leex-R> me unstable ant working to well
[16:43] <Redb3ard> imagine that
[16:43] <Redb3ard> you'd think they'd label it with some descriptive word that might hint that it doesnt work too well
[16:43] <Redb3ard> ;)
[16:43] <leex-R> ;0
[16:44] <leex-R> it had been before
[16:44] <leex-R> mite be coes of low levle of users
[16:46] <Redb3ard> i wonder if toad and the others would be pissed if i invited people to metanet
[16:47] <Redb3ard> :/
[16:55] <leex-R> ?
[16:56] <leex-R> Redb3ard whats that
[17:22] <toad_> <leex-R> lots happering today - you have no idea...
[17:23] <leex-R> i mean in here
[17:23] <leex-R> bet you work on this prog all day
[17:24] <leex-R> just saying its quite in here today
[17:27] <toad_> no actually i've been debating some really heavy stuff with jrandom
[17:28] <leex-R> :)
[17:34] * Ash-Foxeus (Hal-9000@aah162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:38] * Zorix (~Brandon@fl-69-34-0-160.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[18:03] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aah162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[18:03] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aah162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:06] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aah162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[18:07] * TLF (francisco@203.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[18:19] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[18:39] <KenMan> hello ppl
[18:43] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:52] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[18:52] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[18:53] <leex-R> lo KenMan
[18:53] <KenMan> wow, my node has had a relatively stable level of queries for the past 24 hours...
[18:53] <KenMan> hi leex-R
[18:53] <toad_> KenMan: graph?
[18:53] <KenMan> oh, uh, hold on...
[18:54] <KenMan> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jkcorson/FreeNet/5090c.png
[18:55] <KenMan> i was looking at queries per hour, and that value held fairly level, approximately 1400 - 2200 / hr
[19:02] <KenMan> for 24 hrs, reqSuccessRatio=3.99% (1843/46112) , routSuccessRatio=2.6% (1014/39230) , successes from store=829/1843=45%, and successes from other routes (1014/29230)=55% - with a 10G store
[19:03] <KenMan> now, routingSuccessRatio is not true, as queries that get retried are only counted a single attempt. So the true routing success is more like in the neighborhood of 1.1%
[19:03] <KenMan> :(
[19:04] <KenMan> so perhaps we have not made any progress at all since the turn of the year...
[19:05] <KenMan> oh, hi toad! I thought that was leex-R asking for graphs...
[19:05] <KenMan> have you tried making your own graphs with the scripts i sent you ? they should 'just work' without any effort...
[19:06] <KenMan> assuming you have /bin/perl with the libwww module (most distributions include) and GnuPlot 4.0 ...
[19:06] <KenMan> err, /usr/bin/perl i mean
[19:12] <leex-R> ?
[19:12] * kers (~kers@162.ppp144.rsd.worldonline.se) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[19:12] * toad_ (toad@82-32-16-91.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[19:13] <KenMan> bye toad_ ...
[19:15] <KenMan> leex-R ... sometimes I get lazy and don't check to see who sends me a message prefixed with KenMan:
[19:17] <KenMan> when toad typed 'KenMan: graph?' I thought you had sent it, as there isn't much activity in here.
[19:27] <leex-R> heh
[19:27] <leex-R> he comes back from time to time
[19:27] <leex-R> (hrs apart)
[19:40] * guido^pe (~unknown@dsl-213-023-232-070.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[20:02] * verl_ (~verlverl@h165n2fls33o877.telia.com) has joined #freenet
[20:02] * verl (~verlverl@h165n2fls33o877.telia.com) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
[20:05] * piranha (~piranha@192.220.223.15) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[20:07] * piranha (~piranha@192.220.223.30) has joined #freenet
[20:08] * verl_ (~verlverl@h165n2fls33o877.telia.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[20:40] * verl (~verlverl@h165n2fls33o877.telia.com) has joined #freenet
[20:45] * Addos (~addos@cpe-024-211-212-102.ec.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[20:45] <Addos> hmm, 5091 won't retrieve anything for me
[20:47] <Addos> The network is busy, please try again later.
[20:47] <Addos> Retrying...
[20:47] <Addos> wtf
[20:50] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
[21:00] <KenMan> Addos: that behavior seems to come and go over time. Try the network an hour later, things can change dramatically in that amount of time.
[21:01] <iip_i2p> <oOo> Don't forget most DBRs ticked only 80 minutes ago ;)
[21:21] <Addos> hmm
[21:21] <Addos> what takes it so long for it to change?
[21:23] <Addos> finally the freedom site is viewable
[21:23] <Addos> but that is the only one working, at least for now
[21:23] <Addos>
[21:23] <Addos> Couldn't connect to the network. Are you sure you have configured Freenet correctly? Also make sure that you are connected to the internet.
[21:23] <Addos> hmm
[21:39] * Dasdjasd (Dasdjasd@S010600e0b83d703b.vc.shawcable.net) has joined #freenet
[21:44] * Dasdjasd (Dasdjasd@S010600e0b83d703b.vc.shawcable.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:47] <KenMan> what number of peers does anyone have in stable ? I set the max at 80, but in 2 days uptime, I've averaged only 65 at any single minute in time.
[21:48] <KenMan> I did reach 80 at one point, but it only lasted for 4 minutes :(
[21:50] <Addos> hmm
[21:50] <Addos> I can't get much of anything to load
[21:53] * leex-R (~le@spc1-warr1-3-0-cust198.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) Quit ()
[21:55] * someone (~someone@adsl-69-110-6-68.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #freenet
[21:55] <someone> hellow everyone
[21:56] <Addos> hi
[21:56] <someone> ...i just started using freenet, i've got a question or two. anyone mind if I ask in chan?
[21:56] <verl> ask away!
[21:57] <Addos> well, first, why does it take so long for Freenet to actually become usable?
[21:57] <someone> ah, exactly my question ;P
[21:57] <KenMan> your answer is no fair
[21:58] <someone> bbl all, i'll stay in chan...
[21:59] <Addos> damn, freenet is beyond unusable
[22:00] <verl> Addos: how long have you been running it?
[22:00] <KenMan> certainly it is not optimal, but apparently some people are finding it usable (or they are just gluttons for punishment), judging by the rate of queries passing through my node
[22:01] <Addos> verl: about 3 hours
[22:01] <Addos> lots and lots of broken links
[22:01] <verl> Addos: freenet does require your patience in its current incarnation. :)
[22:02] <Addos> how exactly does one insert into it?
[22:02] <verl> although your freenet node is trying to learn a little bit about the network
[22:02] <Addos> how exactly does it do this learning?
[22:02] <KenMan> Addos - is this your first time / have you run it previously in the past few days ? it can take a day or longer before things reach their peak efficiency, which may also disappoint you, depending on your level of expectation...
[22:02] <Addos> hmm
[22:03] <Addos> I used to run freenet back in before the fproxy stuff
[22:03] <verl> you can eiter use a 3rd party program such as Fuqid (look for the freesite) or you can do it via the frontpage portal
[22:03] <Addos> when things were done via text clients
[22:03] <Addos> stuff used to propagate a lot faster in previous incarnations of freenet than they do currently
[22:03] <KenMan> as requests flow through your node, it watches to see which nodes respond to which keys (and how long they take), and begins to learn what each node is best at...
[22:04] <Addos> where does it store that information at?
[22:04] <Addos> also, why does configure default to a datastore of approximately 7gigs?
[22:04] <Addos> that is huge
[22:04] <Addos> 7091mb
[22:04] <KenMan> you mean, in the code ? or where you can see it via your browser ?
[22:05] <Addos> I mean, in the local filestructure
[22:05] <Addos> I assume it is building some sort of data file to represent what it is learning
[22:05] <KenMan> the files are called ngrt_* , also rt*
[22:05] <Addos> hmm
[22:06] <Addos> things are so much more confusing in Freenet now, than they once were
[22:06] <KenMan> no doubt. And so it continues... :(
[22:06] <Addos> too many files scattered about, too many seperate applications and tools, instead of centralized simplified file structure and configuration/tools
[22:06] <Addos> hopefully it gets simplified in the future
[22:07] <Addos> so where can I look to see when my node is operating at peak efficiency?
[22:07] <Addos> I see a few more links appear to have images now
[22:07] <Addos> still 7091mb is a huge datastore
[22:07] <KenMan> well, the most widely accepted answer is to look at success rates. There are several places to view this... such as...
[22:08] <KenMan> http://localhost:8888/servlet/nodestatus/psuccess_data.txt
[22:08] <KenMan> http://localhost:8888/servlet/nodestatus/diagnostics/requestSuccessRatio/hour
[22:08] <KenMan> http://localhost:8888/servlet/nodestatus/diagnostics/routingSuccessRatio/hour
[22:08] <Addos> freenet is a neat idea, but it is getting wayyyy too complicated
[22:09] <Addos> how in the hell would an average joe know to look there?
[22:09] <KenMan> they wouldn't, and shouldn't. There must be 1000 different statistics to look at, and some of them are even useful !!
[22:09] <KenMan> To the developers anyway
[22:10] <Addos> yeah, but a method similar to the advanced config in mozilla/firefox should be devised
[22:10] <Addos> putting all that stuff in one central easy to find location
[22:10] <Addos> yet, concealing it for those who don't need it
[22:10] <KenMan> I suppose there is an argument to be made that one big dial should be displayed, ranging from "useless" to "super-highly accurate routing is taking place"
[22:11] <Addos> I dunno, an indicator is important, so joe user doesn't give up hope and say to hell with freenet
[22:11] <KenMan> http://localhost:8888/servlet/nodestatus/diagnostics/index.html - here you can find an index to 990 of the 1000 statistics...
[22:11] <Addos> right now, all these broken links are very discouraging
[22:11] <Addos> I can only click one site that works, and even then it is a link to a site with other sites, and none of those sites work
[22:11] <KenMan> keep trying them, because over time fewer of them will be broken (assuming you keep your node running)
[22:12] <Addos> yeah, but still, why does freenet keep forcing a 7gig datastore?
[22:12] <KenMan> you must be running windows...
[22:12] <KenMan> look for a file called freenet.ini
[22:12] <Addos> yes, I am also unhappy that I can't just download the .jar file manually
[22:12] <Addos> and run it with my jdk manually
[22:12] <Addos> instead I got to run the pos windows installer
[22:12] <KenMan> i don't see why you cannot just download the jar manually.
[22:13] <Addos> exactly
[22:13] <Addos> it refused to detect my 1.5 jre
[22:13] <Addos> and wouldn't install
[22:13] <Addos> I had to uninstaller 1.5, and install 1.4.2
[22:13] <KenMan> the jars are available at http://www.freenetproject.org/snapshots/
[22:13] <Addos> hmm
[22:13] <Addos> interesting
[22:14] <Addos> would have been nice to have a link to snapshots in the downloads page
[22:14] <KenMan> the one you want is called freenet-latest.jar
[22:14] <Addos> thanks
[22:14] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@mazzanet.registered) Quit ("Read error: Connection reset by Telstra")
[22:14] <KenMan> you can attempt to run it with any JVM you like. The project recommends Sun JVMs, 1.4.1 or 1.4.2 specifically (if you want it to work).
[22:15] <Addos> yeah, it said 1.4.x or above
[22:15] <KenMan> Also some people are reporting decent success with the 1.5 betas...
[22:15] <Addos> but apparently it doesn't like 1.5
[22:15] <Addos> the installer, that is
[22:15] <KenMan> the installer is another matter.
[22:15] <Addos> I also don't like that freenet.exe
[22:15] <Addos> I'd prefer to run it from the jar directly
[22:15] <Addos> is freenet.exe a stub for a class inside the jar file?
[22:16] <KenMan> that's okay. We should develop better instructions for how to do things manually under windows. The expectation is that the majority of potential users are on windows, and that they want simple installers.
[22:16] <KenMan> no, freenet.exe really isn't integrated with freenet (the jar) at all.
[22:16] <Addos> which is annoying, I'd prefer to learn and manage Freenet in a cross platform manner
[22:17] <Addos> meaning, starting things with the jre, manually
[22:17] <Addos> especially since I go from BSD, OSX, and Windows
[22:17] <KenMan> you need freenet.jar and freenet-ext.jar (the 1st needs the 2nd) in your classpath. Run it as freenet.node.Main
[22:17] <Addos> interesting
[22:17] <Addos> what is freenet-ext.jar?
[22:18] <KenMan> a jar with support classes in it, mainly
[22:18] <Addos> like foundational classes or something?
[22:18] <Addos> now do the text based request and insert clients still exist?
[22:19] <KenMan> i suppose the ext stands for extensions. the dependencies are all from freenet.jar to freenet-ext.jar . Feel free to obtain the source code from sourceforge and start looking around in it.
[22:19] <KenMan> freenet-ext is a function separation. I wouldn't call the things in it foundational, but they certainly are necessary.
[22:20] <KenMan> functional, rather
[22:20] <Addos> now, I could override seedhosts, and create my own private freenet, right?
[22:20] <Addos> as long as none of the hosts in it connect to the public one, right?
[22:20] <KenMan> i know nothing of the text based parts you are familiar with. I've only been involved since 0.5
[22:21] <Addos> ah, I am probably thinking somewhere around 0.1
[22:21] <KenMan> yes, you can create your own separate net through religious seednode / reference management
[22:21] <Addos> what is the jar's equivalent gui based configure tool similar to freenet.exe?
[22:21] <KenMan> but once one 'external' or 'publically connected' node slips in , the game is over
[22:21] <Addos> assuming there is one, since there is no reason there shouldn't be
[22:22] <KenMan> the jar does not contain any GUI based configuration tools. It is commonly agreed upon that it needs one.
[22:22] <Addos> ah, yes, freenet.exe needs to be abolished
[22:22] <Addos> and a swing based config tool should replace it
[22:22] <KenMan> the current method on non-windows boxes is editing the freenet.conf file (equivalent to freenet.ini on windows)
[22:23] <Addos> yeah, but since freenet is java based, doesn't freenet.conf also exist on windows?
[22:23] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@mazzanet.registered) has joined #freenet
[22:23] <KenMan> someone doesn't like swing. Or AWT. Or, I dunno... wasn't part of that argument.
[22:23] <Addos> swing is definitely better than a .exe hack which leaves the unix and osx platforms without gui config tools
[22:24] <KenMan> no, freenet.conf is the name of the file (on unix) that is used to store the settings. Freenet.ini is the equivalent file on a windows computer.
[22:24] <KenMan> I don't believe that a freenet.conf exists on windows, but I could be wrong.
[22:24] <Addos> are the contents exactly the same?
[22:24] <KenMan> exists / is used / whatever
[22:24] * rec (~rec@cpe-69-135-202-129.woh.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[22:24] <KenMan> I am not certain regarding contents :(
[22:25] <Addos> so it is freenet.exe that is generating the freenet.ini?
[22:25] <KenMan> it SHOULD be identical though
[22:25] <Addos> because otherwise, the behavior for the .jar file on windows/unix should be identical
[22:25] <Addos> hehehe
[22:25] <Addos> yeah, this is wayyyy too confusing
[22:25] <KenMan> i believe it is the same functional file, with a different name, is all
[22:26] <Addos> ah, I bet freenet.exe is passing an argument to the jar file to indicate the config file is named freenet.ini instead of freenet.conf
[22:26] <KenMan> well, then just run it, and if it doesn't do anything for you, then stop running it. But give it a fair chance of 1-2 days before you make up your mind. Everything is still in development, because, frankly, things aren't working so good at this time.
[22:27] <KenMan> no, the jar detects the platform used. Well, i don't know that for a fact...
[22:27] <Addos> well, it wasn't that, I mean I see some good uses for this in a private educational environment, isolated from the rest of the net. But the thing was, I wanted to know if perhaps it would propagate a lot faster over a WAN than it currently does over the Internet
[22:27] <KenMan> now i do know that for a fact it checks the platform used.
[22:28] <Addos> well, normally I don't think java does anything like that, which is what leads me to believe the native freenet.exe is what is forcing the different behavior
[22:28] <KenMan> no, i just read the source code, and it is checking on the presence of various platforms.
[22:28] <Addos> hmm, interesting
[22:28] <KenMan> again, go read the source for the best answers
[22:29] <Addos> yeah, I'll have to download it sometime
[22:29] <Addos> so let me ask you this
[22:29] <Addos> once you've been connected for awhile
[22:29] <Addos> how fast are most requests?
[22:30] <KenMan> it depends on an extreme number of variables. I generally don't do much browsing, but when I do, if things come up, it is usually quick.
[22:30] <Addos> now, is that even when your browser's cache is clear?
[22:30] <KenMan> Like, 5 - 20 seconds is QUICK in this environment.
[22:30] <Addos> even though a local node also caches
[22:30] <KenMan> well, that's the thing. Some of the stuff is already in my node's cache ( not my browser's cache )
[22:30] <Addos> that is the thing about freenet, I am curious how quickly content that isn't cached, but a node that is quite familiar with the network, will retrieve content you haven't requested before
[22:31] <KenMan> so those items pop right up in a second or so...
[22:31] <Addos> for example, if I were to insert data, how many nodes will that data propagate to?
[22:31] <Addos> with just a single insert, will it propagate to only a single freenode host, or several?
[22:32] <KenMan> as many as you specify, up to a limit of ~20
[22:32] <Addos> oh, so that is basically like setting a priority in terms of how important you may think that data is?
[22:32] <Addos> heh, more graphics are starting to propagate
[22:32] <Addos> hehehe
[22:33] <KenMan> not exactly. You can't control any priorities outside of your own node. No matter what you do. This is by design.
[22:33] <Addos> yeah, but generally, the more nodes you try to propagate to, the more like a priority you are sort of assigning to the data
[22:33] <KenMan> When you say 'insert this webpage' you specify a number of hops to travel, and it then inserts the data along a chain of that many nodes.
[22:34] <Addos> like if i only had a hop of 1, then it is sort of like me saying, this file isn't that important
[22:34] <KenMan> as people begin to request the item (assuming they do) then it gets spread around a little more, in relation to how popular it is
[22:34] <Addos> yeah, I remember the goal of it sort of shifting data to increase download speeds for people in other places in the world, etc.
[22:35] <KenMan> the more frequently that people ask for a specific item (and only when it is found) the more often it gets replicated
[22:36] <KenMan> so if you create an initial 20 copies of your 'computer times' webpage, and you have a readership of 1000 people, it could wind up having 7200 copies stored on the network
[22:36] <Addos> hmm
[22:37] <KenMan> someone else publishes 'canine times' and it only has 20 readers. Then it might only propagate to 87 nodes datastores...
[22:37] <Addos> so it only propagates to those nodes along the hops to your computer?
[22:37] <KenMan> yes
[22:38] <KenMan> but it can branch out from each one of those steps as well
[22:38] <Addos> so when you insert, it hashes, and it determines a destination node it will be stored at, and then it caches on every node between your node and the destination node, within the number of hops chosen?
[22:38] <Addos> hmm, interesting
[22:38] <KenMan> just give it a little time to work its magic, and see what you get in a day or two...
[22:39] <KenMan> the paths taken are not completely deterministic (very much not so right now)
[22:39] <Addos> yeah, but with a 7gig datastore, I can't help but feel like every freenode site will be cached locally
[22:39] <KenMan> a small degree of this is good, too much is harmful
[22:39] <Addos> ehehe
[22:39] <KenMan> there is a LOT of data that has been published in 4 or 5 years.
[22:40] <Addos> doesn't it periodically get purged as people update to versions that break backwards compatibility?
[22:40] <KenMan> people with 80 gig stores certainly fill them up, and data rotates inside them !!
[22:40] <KenMan> well, sort of. So far that has not happened more than once or twice if ever.
[22:40] <KenMan> When you upgrade your node, you can take your cache with you (and you should!)
[22:41] <KenMan> the structure of the datastore has only been reworked once or twice, thus data is usually not lost.
[22:41] <Addos> the thing is, what if your network dynamics change? Does Freenet continue using the old routing table it generated?
[22:41] <KenMan> no, it is supposed to be continously adapting and learning and pushing data and consuming bandwidth and annoying users, and ...
[22:41] <KenMan> ;)
[22:41] <Addos> hehehe
[22:42] <Addos> so when you first start freenet, it only knows of nodes in the seedref, right?
[22:42] <Addos> and as you use it, it builds a routing table, and it learns to reach nodes your not directly connected to?
[22:42] <Addos> you're
[22:43] <KenMan> yeah, and then it starts trying to use them. And yes, it comes into contact with more nodes (previously unknown) as you keep it running.
[22:43] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@mazzanet.registered) Quit ("Read error: Connection reset by Telstra")
[22:44] <KenMan> seednodes are one way that nodes become aware of each other. Nodes can announce themselves to the network, asking for more peers. That is another way they find each other.
[22:44] * mazzanet (~mazzanet@mazzanet.registered) has joined #freenet
[22:44] <KenMan> yo mazzanet, what is it, time for a late afternoon lunch there ?
[22:44] <KenMan> early sunday dinner perhaps ?
[22:45] <mazzanet> The time is now Sun Aug 15 13:04:08 2004
[22:45] <mazzanet> 1pm
[22:49] <KenMan> Addos: look for a line in freenet.ini that says 'storeSize=xxxM'
[22:49] <Addos> thanks
[22:58] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:58] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[22:58] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[23:08] * jmercier (~jmercier@wbar6.lax1-4-10-163-068.dsl-verizon.net) has joined #freenet
[23:12] <someone> hullo back.
[23:13] <someone> hey all. kenman & addos, ty for the conversation, answered my questions ;)
[23:25] * someone (~someone@adsl-69-110-6-68.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) Quit ()
[23:26] * someone (~someone@adsl-69-110-6-68.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #freenet
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
