Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:03] <thelema|away> ~
[0:03] * thelema|away is now known as thelema
[0:04] <salahx> wb thelema
[0:05] <thelema> hi salahx
[0:11] * Otse (~otter@stekt2.oulu.fi) has joined #freenet
[0:12] <Otse> anyone awake?
[0:12] <thelema> hi otse
[0:13] <Otse> hi
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[0:13] <Otse> i updated to 5090 and now node won't start, anyone with same prob?
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[0:14] <salahx> yeah
[0:14] <salahx> it was because of the huge seednodes.ref
[0:14] <Otse> so must increase mem in .ini?
[0:14] <salahx> that's one way
[0:14] <salahx> OR use these instead: http://home.earthlink.net/~salahx/freenet/unstable.ref.gz
[0:14] <salahx> (Despite the name, these seednodes ARE for stable)
[0:15] <Otse> (can't they take out old seednodes from public ref?)
[0:15] <Otse> ok, gotta try.
[0:17] <Otse> ah, not it seems to work
[0:18] <salahx> are you getting an error message ?
[0:19] <Otse> ah, now it seems to work that is :)
[0:19] <salahx> ohh ok :)
[0:19] <salahx> I ffigured that was problem...
[0:19] <Otse> yeah, can't type this early.
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[0:21] <salahx> memery useage is way down in Freenet
[0:21] <salahx> Maximum memory the JVM will allocate 129,664 KiB
[0:21] <salahx> Memory currently allocated by the JVM 98,228 KiB
[0:21] <salahx> Memory in use 77,653,816 Bytes
[0:22] * thelema (~thelema@adsl-66-136-184-242.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[0:22] <Otse> my jvm takes ~69MB
[0:23] <salahx> that' a lot less than what it used to be
[0:23] <Otse> how many known nodes you usually have?
[0:24] <salahx> ~400 currently
[0:24] <Otse> i got ~180 (18 succesful conns) atm :/
[0:25] <salahx> Well my node is listed in seednodes.ref so I get a lot more traffic :)
[0:25] <Otse> ah :)
[0:26] <salahx> Once stable is rebuilt I'll probably switcvh back to unstable
[0:26] <Otse> i was planning to code crawler that just goes through freesites and at the same get more known nodes.
[0:26] <salahx> Just use Frost :)
[0:26] <Otse> seems that my frost is broken too :/
[0:26] <Otse> it doesn't update boards automatically anymore
[0:27] <salahx> oh well that's easy to fix
[0:27] <Otse> tried to copy another over it but no work.
[0:28] <salahx> you shoud lbe able to just click New->Autmoacially Update Boards
[0:28] <Otse> its on
[0:28] <salahx> Frost is disable that option (and keep it off) if it ca'nt find a node to connect to...
[0:29] <Otse> still no...
[0:29] <salahx> well you could delete you config file and Frost woud lre-create it
[0:30] <Otse> when i get few downloads complete i remove whole prog and put fresh one.
[0:30] <salahx> ok
[0:30] <salahx> you cna tranfer those downlado to Fuqid if ya want
[0:32] <Otse> but fuqid will start from beginning won't it?`
[0:33] <Otse> and i can update manually for a while.
[0:33] <salahx> if downlaoded pieced shoudl still be in your datastopre
[0:34] <salahx> Unless these downloads have been running WEEKS
[0:35] <Otse> ah, didn't think about datastore...
[0:39] <Otse> no, fuqid wont resume.
[0:40] <Otse> but its all the same, those arent so important...
[0:41] <salahx> Fuqid need a whole "pass" to find the pieces in your datastore
[0:42] <Otse> ok, let's see, no deleting frost
[0:42] <Otse> now even
[0:43] <salahx> I hope you backed you your identity and known board files :)
[0:44] <Otse> yep
[0:45] <Otse> now it _seems_ to work.
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[0:51] * Betadine (CokoBorg@AC81E1A6.ipt.aol.com) has joined #freenet
[0:51] <Betadine> Hello
[0:52] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) Quit ()
[0:53] <Betadine> New to freenet...got a few things to load..and then come back in a couple of hours and pages don't pull up again. Any links to some newbie help? Thansk in advance.
[0:53] <Otse> www.freenethelp.org
[0:53] <lostlogic> Depends what time you come back ... if pages are DBR (Date Based Revision) then you have to retrieve (find) a new version every so often...
[0:54] <lostlogic> (usually 24 hours AFAIK)
[0:54] <Betadine> ahhhthat could be it then
[0:54] <Betadine> and what's the usual amount of nodes one should be connected to? I've used freenet now for about 3 days.
[0:55] <Betadine> It currently says 36 for me.
[0:55] <lostlogic> that depends widely
[0:55] <Otse> i just reseeded and its 188
[0:55] <lostlogic> I usually have over 100 cons...
[0:56] <Betadine> could anyone give me their seed file? I'm using the default ones...maybe they aren't as effective?
[0:58] <lostlogic> Your node will learn, getting osme other node's seeds wouldn't really help anything...
[0:58] <lostlogic> just make sure you keep your node up-to-date
[0:58] <Betadine> ok. So essentailly the longer it's on the more it can learn?
[0:59] <Betadine> and how do you keep your node up to date? is it just the 5090 version?
[1:00] <lostlogic> yeah, just get the latest jar whenever it says there is a more recent version basically.
[1:00] * lostlogic goes to snore.
[1:00] <Betadine> ok night lostlogic and thanks
[1:00] <lostlogic> laters
[1:00] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-402418b2.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) Quit ("Going to the moon")
[1:00] <Hamled|Erp> So... I just downloaded the unstable version, and everytime I try to connect to something, I get RNF, it's not even getting past my node at all, fails immediately everytime
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[2:39] <iip_i2p> <BosHaus> how can I get rid of java.lang.OutOfMemoryError 's ?
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[4:02] * hirvox changes topic to 'Upgrade to 5090 (5089: mandatory reset, 5090: RNF bug fixed!) | Unstable: Upgrade to 60185 | Logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ | #freenet-politics and #freenet-chat are available for offtopic discussions'
[4:59] * theLostFloppy (~michaelku@fia41-111.dsl.hccnet.nl) has joined #freenet
[4:59] <theLostFloppy> Sometimes, when freenet is started it freezes and doesn't respond
[4:59] <theLostFloppy> That's version 5090
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[10:27] <sanity> thelostfloppy: what does it say in the log?
[10:27] <theLostFloppy> sanity, nothing useful I think
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[12:27] <mikeDOTd> 5090, only 82 open connections after days of uptime, and now i'm seeing RNF because of 1 cleanly reject and 81 backed off nodes.
[12:29] * |ux (~|ux@82-37-17-24.cable.ubr03.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[12:29] <theLostFloppy> mikeDOTd, I have the same!
[12:29] <jokern> Uptime 17 hours 15 min
[12:29] <jokern> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 170 (97/73/200)
[12:29] <jokern> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 126 (63/63)
[12:29] <mikeDOTd> jokern: is that 5090?
[12:30] <jokern> Yes
[12:30] <mikeDOTd> hmmm
[12:30] <|ux> heh, what have i missed
[12:30] <|ux> :p
[12:31] <jokern> Could be because I am listed in that f... seednodes.ref maiking everybody want a bite of me
[12:31] <|ux> jokern: are you running frost?
[12:31] <jokern> frost and fuqid
[12:31] <|ux> jokern: how many downloads running?
[12:32] <jokern> on frost or fuqid?
[12:32] <|ux> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 131 (72/59/200)
[12:32] <|ux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 74 (14/60)
[12:32] <|ux> frost
[12:32] <jokern> frost only msg, fuqid 2 dl at the moment
[12:32] <|ux> ok
[12:33] <jokern> Fuqid has dl 455Mb during these 17+ hours
[12:33] <jokern> And fred has moved
[12:33] <jokern> Total amount of data transmitted/received 1,494 MiB/1,925 MiB
[12:37] <|ux> Total amount of data transferred 1,024 MiB << in 8 hours
[12:38] <|ux> where does it give the transmitted/received?
[12:39] <jokern> http://127.0.0.1:8888/servlet/nodeinfo/networking/ocm
[12:39] <jokern> just below the Connections open etc
[12:41] <jokern> could be that you have to choose "more details"
[12:46] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-65-41-1-233.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[12:47] <|ux> i jjust get this:
[12:47] <|ux> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 132 (72/60/200)
[12:47] <|ux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 94 (17/77)
[12:47] <|ux> Data waiting to be transferred 148 Bytes
[12:47] <|ux> Total amount of data transferred 1,054 MiB
[12:49] <jokern> You have a link that say: More Details . It is below the " Sun Aug 08"
[12:49] <|ux> yea see it now
[12:49] <|ux> DUH! :p
[12:50] <jokern> :)
[12:50] <|ux> Total amount of data transmitted/received 288 MiB/774 MiB
[12:50] <jokern> How large is you dadastore ath the moment?
[12:50] <jokern> eh,, data not dada
[12:50] <|ux> Maximum size 2 GiB
[12:50] <|ux> Used space 2,095,700 KiB
[12:50] <|ux> Free space 1,452 KiB
[12:50] <|ux> Percent used 99
[12:50] <|ux> Total keys 3816
[12:51] <jokern> Should be enough to generate traffic..
[12:52] <jokern> Maximum size 9,486 MiB
[12:52] <jokern> Used space 2,629,784 KiB
[12:52] <jokern> Free space 7,083,880 KiB
[12:52] <jokern> Percent used 27
[12:52] <jokern> Total keys 8218
[12:52] <|ux> yea im fine :)
[12:52] <jokern> Try to insert some small files and see if that helps out
[12:52] <|ux> i aint got a problem lol
[12:52] <|ux> it works fine for me
[12:53] <jokern> urgh.. :) wrong person then. sorry
[12:53] <|ux> lol np
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[12:53] <ShaunMacPherson> hi
[12:54] <jokern> Only problem I have is that the inbound traffic is working like a ddos attack
[12:54] <|ux> lol
[12:55] <jokern> Hi ShaunMacPherson
[12:58] <ShaunMacPherson> hihi :)
[12:58] <ShaunMacPherson> busy today
[13:01] <theLostFloppy> Hi everyone
[13:02] <|ux> Heh
[13:02] <|ux> :)
[13:07] <iip_i2p> <mule> Which traffic is included in freenet bw limiting? I have reports in fproxy of outgoing bytes close to the limits set, but more than twice the traffic leaving through the network card (nothing else is running).
[13:09] <|ux> mule: it should be all, surely....
[13:09] <|ux> mule: run ntop.. make sure it is coming from the same ports
[13:12] <iip_i2p> <mule> so also confirmations for incoming traffic should be included?
[13:12] <|ux> mule: dunno
[13:13] <|ux> mule: i run freenet on my laptop and access it via my cpu, so the "bandwidth" usage i see is not correct as it includes local network too
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[13:21] <theLostFloppy> These people posting goatse.cx asciis on frost really piss me off
[13:21] <|ux> lol
[13:22] <theLostFloppy> Am I the only one?
[13:23] <iip_i2p> <mule> better laugh about them, their intentionis to piss you off
[13:23] <theLostFloppy> I know
[13:23] <theLostFloppy> The "Piss into Ian Clarke's cupped hands" think made me laugh a little though. (Sorry Ian)
[13:32] <|ux> later
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[14:02] <hobx_> who is pissing on whoom?
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[14:25] <theLostFloppy> hobx_, there was a message on frost some days ago. There was an (to me) unintelligible ascii art with the text (not exact) "Ian Clarke, you have fucked up the freenet network with your latest releases. Now I will have to piss in your cupped hands."
[14:28] * TLF (francisco@96.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[14:29] <hobx_> As usual Ian is getting credit for Toad's work...
[14:33] <theLostFloppy> I was thinking the same
[14:33] <theLostFloppy> Ian only created the concept, right?
[14:34] <hobx_> No, Ian has done a lot, but but he isn't doing the day to day coding of releases.
[14:36] <theLostFloppy> Are there other programmers working on freenet besides them?
[14:38] <hobx_> I'm not sure who else is here now.
[14:39] <theLostFloppy> So it's pretty much only Toseland and Clarke.
[14:40] <hobx_> Ian hasn't coded anything significant for many years (AFAIK) but he obviously has a lot of input into the protocol etc (for better or worse :-))
[14:40] <hobx_> Programmers have come and gone.
[14:41] <hobx_> After Ian wrote the original code (which was a simulator) a guy called Brandon Wiley started working on making it work for real, but it didn't really get anywhere until I took over in the Spring of 2000.
[14:42] <theLostFloppy> The Freenet history is interesting...
[14:43] <hobx_> Then in 2000 it was mostly me and a guy called Scott Miller (he coded most of the crypto stuff and some of the networking) I did most of the rest.
[14:43] <hobx_> Scott phased out in toward the end of 2000, and then Tavin Cole joined and did a lot of work with me in 2001.
[14:44] <theLostFloppy> I didn't expect that freenet was so young
[14:45] <hobx_> He lasted a little over a year but he didn't really get along with Ian. Then Matthew came in, I worked with him a little but then I stepped down as well.
[14:45] <hobx_> More people have worked on it, but those were the most significant.
[14:46] <theLostFloppy> Thanks for telling me all this
[14:47] <hobx_> never mind me. I'm just an old washed out coder babbling about days of yore...
[14:47] <hobx_> :-)
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[15:49] * theLostFloppy goes reboot
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[16:07] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> Anyone actually here, or is everyone away? ;)
[16:11] * bluephile (bluephile@69-160-205-193.clvdoh.adelphia.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[16:13] <|ux> Im here
[16:13] <|ux> in a-way :p
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[16:25] <|ux> wb theLostFlopy
[16:25] <|ux> Floppy*
[16:25] <theLostFloppy> Hi
[16:27] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> Hi.
[16:28] * theLostFloppy is teaching his dad how to send an SMS ;-)
[16:30] * |ux My mom asked me the other day "How she can send a Long Message."..
[16:33] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> LostFloppy: ;) Not an unlogical question though...
[16:35] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> Any devel. here that knows a lot (or a bit) about freenet-routing? (Where is Toad when you need him... ;)
[16:35] * MosMerv (~aolisevil@cm-adsl-12-178-135-145.southshore.com) has joined #freenet
[16:35] <MosMerv> I just got Freenet, but I'm getting OutOfMemory errors?
[16:36] <MosMerv> I have 512 MB of RAM, I'd think that'd be enough. Can anyone help?
[16:36] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> MosMerv: Running on Linux/Unix or Windows?
[16:37] <MosMerv> Windows XP Pro
[16:38] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> MosMerv: I'm afraid I can't help you there (not running windows)
[16:38] <MosMerv> Someone in the support group said they copied their old seed file and it ran fine, apparently it's giving out excessively large seed files or something?
[16:39] <MosMerv> the server, that is
[16:40] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> MosMerv: What Freenet version are you running? For stable, you should really upgrade to 5090, and reseed as well
[16:40] <|ux> lol damn
[16:40] <|ux> i just realise that the default "mode" for connections page
[16:40] <|ux> is actually in the freenet.conf file
[16:41] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> ux: ;) Uhmm... I'd rather not admit this... But erm... What option is that? ;))
[16:41] <|ux> MosMerv: It apparently has to do with the size of the seednodes.ref... i cant remember, but its in the chanlogs... http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/
[16:42] <|ux> PhamNuwen: DefaultToOCMHTMLPeerHandlerMode
[16:42] <|ux> true for Peers... false for Connections
[16:42] <MosMerv> How do I fix it?
[16:42] <MosMerv> I have 5090, first time I've ever run the program.
[16:43] <|ux> MosMerv: umm... get a seednodes.ref file from a Windows user?
[16:47] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> MosMerv: ok, since 5090 is your first version, you don't have to reseed. So that's ok. As far as the large seednodes.ref is concerned: I know that that problem exists, but I haven't seen it yet.
[16:47] * |ux reading config file
[16:48] <|ux> ... lol "Opera and IE suffer from a design flaw that prevents FProxy from protecting your anonymity properly"
[16:48] <MosMerv> okay, I figured out a workaround - open up the file and copy in one or two nodes
[16:48] <MosMerv> then replace the excessively large seednodes.ref
[16:49] <MosMerv> Thanks for your help, everyone.
[16:49] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> MosMerv: Good for you! Your solution sounds plausible. You might want to copy some more or those nodes (say 10 or 20) though, to improve your initial network integration.
[16:50] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> MosMerv: You might also consider running a permanent node (helps the network a lot)
[16:50] <|ux> MosMerv: you may want to copy some "bigger" nodes
[16:50] <|ux> to speed up ur chances
[16:50] <MosMerv> okay, good idea
[16:51] <ejhuff> Build Number 5090 Uptime 1 day 16 hours 47 minutes
[16:52] <ejhuff> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 139 (91/48/800)
[16:52] <ejhuff> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 129 (92/37)
[16:52] <ejhuff> Data waiting to be transmitted/received 4,920 Bytes/None
[16:52] <ejhuff> Amount of data transmitted/received over currently open connections 305 MiB/307 MiB
[16:52] <ejhuff> Total amount of data transmitted/received 1,105 MiB/890 MiB
[16:52] <ejhuff> # Histogram of node versions in fred's Routing table
[16:52] <ejhuff> # Aug 8, 2004 5:06:17 PM
[16:52] <ejhuff> # nodes: 1433
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.49,5054 1
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.49,5058 1
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.49,5061 1
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5069 1
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5070 5
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5072 2
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5076 1
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5081 1
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5082 10
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5083 1
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5084 99
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5085 6
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5086 18
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5087 9
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5088 76
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5089 664
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5090 530
[16:52] <ejhuff> Fred,0.6,1.47,6411 1
[16:52] <ejhuff> unknown 6
[16:53] <|ux> # Histogram of node versions in fred's Routing table
[16:53] <|ux> # Aug 8, 2004 10:12:10 PM
[16:53] <|ux> # nodes: 385
[16:53] <|ux> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5089 90
[16:53] <|ux> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5090 295
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[17:00] <iip_i2p> <PhamNuwen> ejhuff: AAIIEE!! You might want to reseed to get rid of all references <5089 (also upgrade to 5090)
[17:01] <|ux> PhamNuwen: he is on 5090
[17:06] <|ux> btw anyoen else notice that FBNI just is FBI with a N in :p
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[17:20] <Redb3ard> bah
[17:20] <Redb3ard> you vernor vinge freaks just slay me
[17:21] <|ux> hey Redb3ard
[17:21] <|ux> in the "config" file freenet.conf there is an option to allow access from "Non-internet addresses" i take that to mean 10.X.X.X and such...
[17:21] <|ux> Redb3ard: wouldnt that be what you were after?
[17:21] <Redb3ard> yeh lux
[17:22] <Redb3ard> still diddling around with it
[17:23] <|ux> lol
[17:24] <dERMOTH> Hi all.. I have some questions about seeding... Is there's any guru on this?
[17:24] <|ux> lol sorry toad has stepped out somewhere
[17:25] <|ux> ask away im sure someone here will know (not me tho)
[17:27] * Itsme (Itsme@stud188049.mobiel.utwente.nl) has joined #freenet
[17:27] <Itsme> Hi all
[17:27] <|ux> hi
[17:27] <Itsme> My freenet won't find connections in 5090
[17:28] <Itsme> Are there more people that have the same problem?
[17:29] <|ux> Updated your seednodes.ref?
[17:29] <Itsme> I am trying, but it doesn't work
[17:29] <|ux> http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/seednodes.ref
[17:29] <Itsme> when doing it in the "configure"
[17:29] <|ux> stop free net
[17:29] <Itsme> ok
[17:30] <|ux> and replace the seednodes.ref in /var/freenet (ur using linux right?)
[17:30] <|ux> with that one
[17:30] <Itsme> I understand, thanks
[17:30] <dERMOTH> I do not understand well the use of the seednodes file (I thought i did long time ago...) What I'm wondering is if changing the seednodes files will affect current nodes in routing table or if it only affect where fred will look for new refs?
[17:31] <greycat> fred only reads seednodes.ref when it starts up, and then only if it's got a newer timestamp than the existing routing table files
[17:31] <|ux> dERMOTH: i dont know, all i know is that the seednodes ref is the basis for freenet, then it learns about other nodes, and the network
[17:31] <Itsme> woooo... seednodes.ref 24,7 MB
[17:31] <|ux> lol
[17:31] <|ux> mine is 773k
[17:31] <|ux> want that one?
[17:31] <greycat> normally you would just get a seednodes.ref file when you're first running freenet, and then never touch it again afterward (except if something screws up...)
[17:32] <Itsme> I have it almost
[17:32] <Itsme> will try that one first
[17:32] <dERMOTH> by the way, why they don't compress it?!?
[17:32] <greycat> there is a compressed one
[17:33] <Itsme> And perhaps they should make a note on the website that you can download a new seednodes.ref file on freenetproject.org, cause you might need it :)
[17:33] <dERMOTH> then why update.sh don't use it?
[17:34] <greycat> because you're not supposed to get a new one when you update the freenet.jar file
[17:34] <greycat> this is one of those "something screws up..." moments.
[17:34] <|ux> ebuild config gets a new one
[17:34] <greycat> that's wrong.
[17:34] <Itsme> normally, but with 5090, I quess you will need a new one. Because of the network reset, or am I wrong?
[17:34] <|ux> also dont u need to update freenet-ext.jar too?
[17:35] <greycat> Itsme: if all of the nodes in your RT already jumped to 5090, then you won't have to. You'll just keep talking to the same old nodes.
[17:35] <greycat> the problem is, that may not have happened yet :)
[17:35] <dERMOTH> I believe update.sh download the file THEN decide if it need to be updated...
[17:35] <dERMOTH> anyway i commented out everything
[17:35] <Itsme> Greycat: than the problem is that I was not connected to freenet during the new version 5090?
[17:36] <Itsme> Because I didn't even connect to only 1 location
[17:36] <Itsme> And now I am experiencing an error :-(
[17:36] <greycat> no, network resets are just painful. you may get lucky and have a few nodes that help you get through it, or you may not.
[17:36] <Itsme> Caught, in Main:
[17:36] <Itsme> java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
[17:36] <greycat> since you didn't get lucky, you just need to get the new seednodes and start all over on building up your RT
[17:36] <greycat> OOM = bad.
[17:36] <Itsme> Is this a big problem?
[17:36] <greycat> yes.
[17:36] <Itsme> hm
[17:37] <Itsme> I will try to reboot
[17:37] <Itsme> grrrr
[17:37] <dERMOTH> I think i had the same problem, before even invertigating it i deleted all routing files (anyway didn'T they told it was a full reset?) :)
[17:37] <greycat> rebooting is not relevant
[17:37] <Kosukefr> hi
[17:37] <greycat> OOM means either: 1) fred leaks, or 2) java leaks, or 3) you need to change the -Xmx parameter on fred's startup line
[17:37] <|ux> Itsme:
[17:37] <|ux> are you running Windows XP
[17:37] <|ux> or linux
[17:38] <|ux> This is usually called by the seednodes.ref file being too big
[17:38] <|ux> we had a WinXP user with this problem earlier on
[17:38] <greycat> or 4) you have a ulimit set too low
[17:38] <Itsme> I am running XP
[17:38] <greycat> |ux: ok... or 5) a bug in fred :)
[17:39] <|ux> greycat: that is a WinXP problem.... definately
[17:39] <|ux> Itsme: 1moment
[17:39] <iip_i2p> <oOo> If you can afford to allocate 256 Mb to Freenet, edit Flaunch.ini and edit the line JavaMem= so it reads JavaMem=256 That should help
[17:39] <Itsme> I have the time
[17:39] <Itsme> thanks for helping!
[17:39] <dERMOTH> lol.. I recommend you to "upgrade" to linux :)))
[17:40] <Itsme> no, I am too stupid for that
[17:40] <|ux> http://82.37.17.24/buttons/seednodes.ref
[17:40] <|ux> please get that file
[17:40] <|ux> its 773k
[17:40] <Itsme> Ok
[17:40] <Kosukefr> hey, i'm under XP too, and i just found in the logs the suggestion to keep only a few nodes references in seednodes.ref. it's working, now...
[17:40] <dERMOTH> that was a joke. anyway I found windows to be more brain-intensive... :)
[17:41] <greycat> windows makes easy things trivial and makes harder things impossible
[17:41] <greycat> there's no middle ground
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[17:42] <|ux> Itsme: i apologise if the download rate is appauling... blame freenet :p
[17:44] <Itsme> I have it :)
[17:45] <|ux> cool :)
[17:46] <Itsme> I am connected with 1 connection now :)
[17:46] <|ux> lol to who?
[17:46] <mazzanet> [07:50:19] <greycat> normally you would just get a seednodes.ref file when you're first running freenet, and then never touch it again afterward <--- the windows updater gabs a new seednodes as well
[17:46] <Itsme> I will have a look
[17:46] <mazzanet> +r
[17:47] <Itsme> nautical.ath.cx, Ver: 5089 & merrimac.2y.net, Ver: 5089
[17:47] <Itsme> Not a 5090 at the moment
[17:47] <Itsme> But I have the feeling things will go well now. Thanks guys!
[17:48] <greycat> mazzanet: that can't be healthy for the network
[17:48] <|ux> Best of luck Itsme :)
[17:49] <Itsme> When I will have a seccond PC, I will think of having one with linux
[17:49] <dERMOTH> update.sh does this too but change the timestabp to somewhere in the '70 :)
[17:49] <Itsme> and run freenet on that PC
[17:49] <dERMOTH> the timestamp
[17:51] <dERMOTH> touch -t "197001011200" seednodes.ref || touch -d "1/1/1970" seednodes.ref
[17:51] <dERMOTH> # so we don't reseed unless necessary
[17:51] * TLF (francisco@96.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[17:52] <greycat> that seems like a waste of bandwidth... I guess it didn't matter as much before the seednodes.ref file swelled up to double-digit megabytes
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[17:54] <mazzanet> greycat: from toad: "The appropriate solution is to fetch the seednode anyway, but set the modification time back to the early stone age, just as the unix script does"
[17:54] <greycat> is that difficult on windows, or something?
[17:54] <mazzanet> i think so
[17:54] <iip_i2p> <oOo> Shouldn't
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[17:55] <dERMOTH> mazzanet: solution to what?
[17:55] * greycat wonders what the windows equivalent of touch(1) is. Probably involves downloading a whole .EXE file.
[17:55] <mazzanet> "solution" to my query on if we should grabs seednodes on any update
[17:56] <iip_i2p> <oOo> Same for unix, except it got packaged with the OS
[17:56] <mazzanet> bbl
[17:56] <dERMOTH> Why not just get it if it's absent?
[17:56] <greycat> oOo: I meant from an untrusted third party ;-)
[17:57] <|ux> greycat would it be echo >>?
[17:57] <|ux> or chattr or something
[17:57] <iip_i2p> <oOo> Easier should be to include the OS call in the .exe ...
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[18:59] <charlie> hello?
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[19:05] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[19:05] <ybear> hello?
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[19:06] <ybear> Has anyone had problems starting up 5090?
[19:06] <|ux> hi
[19:07] <|ux> what problems?
[19:07] <|ux> let me guess
[19:07] <|ux> "Out of Memory"
[19:07] <|ux> and ur running Win XP?
[19:07] <ybear> yes
[19:07] <|ux> you need to use a smaller seednodes.ref file
[19:07] <|ux> http://82.37.17.24/buttons/seednodes.ref
[19:07] <ybear> not out of mem, though. it just won't start
[19:08] <|ux> well download that seednodes ref file
[19:08] <|ux> and replace the current one you have
[19:08] <ybear> i noticed the seednode file is 25 megs this time. are you saying that is the problem?
[19:08] <|ux> yes
[19:08] <mikeDOTd> "Current probability of an inbound request causing a transfer outwards" does this mean what percentage of requests my node's store doesn't already have?
[19:09] <ybear> let me get it
[19:09] <|ux> mikeDOTd: sounds reasonable enough to assume
[19:10] <|ux> remember it will be rollover time for the DBR in about 30 or so minutes
[19:10] <|ux> of most sites
[19:10] <ybear> thanks |ux
[19:11] * Kyon (~Kyon@n218103233007.netvigator.com) has joined #freenet
[19:11] <|ux> np
[19:12] <Kyon> Heyas, this the right place to ask a technical question about freenet, or should i look to a list?
[19:12] <mikeDOTd> if that value is correct, then that's *AMAZING*
[19:12] <|ux> mikeDOTd: why?
[19:12] <|ux> Kyon: ask away
[19:12] <mikeDOTd> it's reporting 2.1%
[19:12] <|ux> mikeDOTd: so?
[19:13] <mikeDOTd> that means 97.9% of incoming requests to my node already exist in my datastore
[19:13] <mikeDOTd> which i find hard to believe
[19:14] <|ux> mikeDOTd: ahhh, may mean not many incoming requests?
[19:14] <Kyon> |ux: bear with me, im relatively new to it. i grabbed the win32 installer and have installed, uninstalled, rebooted multiple times with the same result. freenet node keeps saying its 'starting', and logfile reports a "No point 0 reading" exception until finally giving a java.lang.OutOfMemoryError. this a known issue, or am i missing something obvious?
[19:14] <|ux> mikeDOTd: let me check mine.. where is it?
[19:15] <|ux> Kyon: known issue
[19:15] <|ux> Kyon: The "seednodes.ref" file is too big, and windows dies... lol
[19:15] <Kyon> |ux: ah ok, couldn't find mention of it anywhere
[19:15] <|ux> Kyon: download a smaller one from http://82.37.17.24/buttons/seednodes.ref
[19:15] <|ux> Kyon: and replace your seednodes.ref file with that one....
[19:16] <Kyon> |ux: good stuff, thanks for the info... can't seem to connect to that address, though i can ping it well enough
[19:16] <iip_i2p> <sasuke> ello ello
[19:16] <mikeDOTd> lux: i'm averaging around 1kqph
[19:17] <ybear> Kyon, I just asked about the same problem :)
[19:17] <Kyon> ybear: haha, i hate being redundant
[19:17] <|ux> Kyon: umm not good (its my IP :p)
[19:18] <|ux> Kyon: keep trying
[19:18] <Kyon> |ux: haha no worries, thanks for the help
[19:19] <Kyon> bleh @ firefox for opening the file instead of downloading it
[19:19] <|ux> Kyon: if it dont work, i can email it u, got a email address?
[19:19] <|ux> Kyon: o.. see its working now :p
[19:19] <Kyon> |ux: its opening now
[19:19] <iip_i2p> <sasuke> Kyon: hehe, does it start with MZ ? :)
[19:20] <|ux> oops
[19:20] <|ux> http://82.37.17.24/buttons/seednodes.ref.gz
[19:20] <|ux> get that then gunzip it
[19:21] <|ux> ok.. so now we have:
[19:21] <|ux> http://82.37.17.24/buttons/seednodes.ref
[19:21] <|ux> http://82.37.17.24/buttons/seednodes.ref.gz
[19:21] <|ux> http://82.37.17.24/buttons/seednodes.zip
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[19:39] * dERMOTH is back -[ afk ]- gone 1 hr 41 min 35 s
[19:39] <|ux> wb :)
[19:39] <dERMOTH> thx
[19:39] <|ux> ive mailed the bug off on the dev list
[19:39] <dERMOTH> but i gotta go...
[19:40] <|ux> that was the right thing to do i hope
[19:40] <|ux> ?
[19:40] <dERMOTH> cya
[19:40] <|ux> bye
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[19:54] <|ux> wb
[19:57] <|ux> nite all
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[20:01] <zfz> Hello. Anyone awake?
[20:07] * iip_i2p (~changate@host.teitel.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[20:16] <|UK-Monster|> nope
[20:17] * |UK-Monster| is now known as leex
[20:20] <zfz> Hehe seems so
[20:20] <leex> lo
[20:20] <leex> :)
[20:21] <zfz> Was just gonna ask if anyone else got problems after upgrading to 5090/stable
[20:21] <zfz> Hello leex
[20:22] <Redb3ard> blah
[20:23] <leex> the way the internet is going we are agoing to be running 2 level internet
[20:23] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) has joined #freenet
[20:24] <leex> 1 will be the ISP's then there be freenet internet (or what ever gives free spech easy and thats where freenet is not at the mo)
[20:24] <zfz> I just got one issue with freenet at the mo
[20:24] <leex> been looking at the BBC click online
[20:24] <leex> uk
[20:25] <zfz> And that is that I'm not getting of my own wanking node after moving to 5090
[20:25] <leex> lol
[20:25] <salahx> ?
[20:25] <leex> ?
[20:25] <zfz> Double ?
[20:25] <leex> -01:47:56- (zfz) And that is that I'm not getting of my own wanking node after moving to 5090 ??
[20:25] <salahx> yeah dunnno what ya mean
[20:26] <zfz> Ah, well I had no issues before (except the general no route to host now and then) but now it's just not reaching any nodes
[20:26] <salahx> not reaching any nodes ?
[20:26] <leex> are you getting in the first 5 lines ipadress is not right
[20:26] <zfz> Well it can't "find a route" to anything. 25 hops 45 tries and still no gpl.txt
[20:27] <salahx> i thought that bug was fixed ?
[20:27] <leex> i get that from time to time (if you was talking to me)
[20:27] <zfz> Nope, grepped the log. Nothing like it
[20:27] <salahx> is your RT populated ?
[20:28] <zfz> Excuse my lack of synonym knowledge, RT?
[20:28] <salahx> Routing Table
[20:29] <leex> on an other note any one herd of tor
[20:29] <salahx> yeah
[20:29] <zfz> Seems it is salahx
[20:30] <leex> salahx seems intresting and it works
[20:30] <leex> when ISP start blocking web sites all us peers are going to be proxys :(
[20:30] <leex> to work around then
[20:30] <leex> them
[20:31] <leex> p2p is next maybe ?
[20:31] <salahx> maybe
[20:31] <salahx> though ISP's really ahve shown any interst in blockign sites
[20:31] <zfz> Except for BT
[20:32] <leex> be intresting an p2p with bult in proxy server
[20:32] <leex> BT yep
[20:32] <salahx> Yeah, BT adn the whole kiddie porn thing...
[20:32] <salahx> i2p is similar
[20:32] <leex> yer
[20:32] <zfz> Mind you, I use BT at work and it's pish anyway
[20:32] <leex> not like i look at that
[20:32] <leex> i2p?
[20:32] <zfz> I just don't like the fact that my ISP would block anything, no matter what it actually is
[20:32] <salahx> http://www.i2p.net/
[20:35] <leex> intresting
[20:37] <salahx> its kinda the "sister projecT" to Freenet
[20:40] <zfz> gtg.
[20:40] * zfz (~040@h151n2fls310o851.telia.com) Quit ("BitchX WWW Site -- http://we.got.net/~brian/")
[20:41] <leex> been ammoums
[20:41] <leex> will be intresting soon
[20:41] <leex> well maybe in some years
[20:41] <leex> this seed nods is big
[20:43] <leex> ok this is taking to long
[20:43] <leex> ffs 25mb
[20:44] <salahx> you donlt have ot download that one
[20:44] <salahx> there;s a .bz2 one that only <1MB
[20:44] <leex> omg
[20:44] <salahx> OR use mine
[20:44] <salahx> http://home.earthlink.net/~salahx/freenet/unstable.ref.gz
[20:44] <leex> dount matter any way its done
[20:44] <salahx> (Depstie the name, the refs are for 5090)
[20:44] <salahx> ok
[20:44] <salahx> KEep in Mind Freenet might choke on it (it did for me and others!)
[20:46] <leex> lol
[20:46] <leex> out of mem error
[20:46] <leex> in logs
[20:48] <leex> wunder why its doing that
[20:48] <salahx> hehe
[20:48] <salahx> Seednodes are too big
[20:48] <salahx> THat what I was tlakign abotu earlier :)
[20:49] <salahx> USe the ones in the link I gave your instead
[20:49] <leex> fs lame opra
[20:52] <leex> hmm 0 connect trys
[20:52] <leex> in freenet
[20:53] <leex> any thing before i wipe my freenet and redownload
[20:54] <salahx> don;t wipe your datastore
[20:54] <leex> ok its at 125 now :P
[20:54] <salahx> there ya go :)
[20:55] <leex> ffs opra
[20:55] <leex> its cacheing the old pages
[20:55] <leex> wunder why it was 0
[20:56] <salahx> PRobabyl due to cryptographic negoptations
[20:56] <salahx> Its "expensive" for a connection in Freenet
[20:57] <leex> ?
[20:57] <leex> i fixed opra now so it allways checks for new page not every 5 hrs!
[21:00] <leex> any way i need sleep
[21:00] <leex> (lex loves java you know :)
[21:01] <leex> and that was more towards the negertve side
[21:02] <leex> alot less buggy that it was 6 months ago
[21:02] <leex> -02:16:55- (salahx) don;t wipe your datastore
[21:02] <leex> i do some times
[21:03] <leex> becoes its the only way to fix the ipadress=1.1.1.1:111-1 is not vailed error
[21:03] <leex> 1 = insert real ip
[21:04] <leex> any way nn
[21:04] <leex> see how freenet is working tomoro
[21:04] <salahx> I thoguh they fixed that one
[21:04] <leex> i only been able to do it once recently
[21:05] <leex> just dount like bumping 5gb of store
[21:05] <leex> thats why i set it to 257
[21:05] <leex> as 256 sets it to 5gb heh
[21:06] <leex> nice idea
[21:06] <leex> as 256mb was way to small
[21:06] <leex> any way i need sleep
[21:06] <leex> see you tomoro
[21:07] <salahx> ok
[21:07] <leex> nn
[21:08] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-55-147.abhsia.telus.net) Quit ("\(^_^)/' No Soliciting!!! Unless you have legs way, way up and really, really big tits....")
[21:29] * iip_i2p (~changate@host.teitel.net) has joined #freenet
[21:31] <Redb3ard> anyone awake?
[21:31] <salahx> yep
[21:47] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-64-45-226-120.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:15] * KenMan (~chaziller@pcp403292pcs.mntcrm01.md.comcast.net) has joined #freenet
[22:17] <KenMan> cool , I think I have trapped instances of route exhaustion happening on my node. In other words, requestors are also experiencing "the request could not even make it off my node" events...
[22:18] <KenMan> not that is it cool, but at least I have detected it now.
[22:20] <KenMan> unfortunately, it appears to be pretty damned common. As in, maybe half the queries I receive encounter this situation (no available routes, RNF!)
[22:22] * KenMan thinks major backoff sucks... just check your routing table page for an instant sample - "Backed off nodes" / "Contacted references" = percent of routes that are unavailable. It averages around 90+% here :(
[22:22] <salahx> same here
[22:23] <KenMan> i hope Mr Toad will lift an eyebrow in response to this discovery...
[22:23] <salahx> at ;least its not 100%, so most requests are going SOMEWHERE
[22:23] <KenMan> no, you only get a snapshot of one instant in time. It could be 100% for 273ms, then 98% for 16ms, then 100% for another 524ms...
[22:24] <salahx> I'm not what can be done abotu that won;t cause a feedback loop...
[22:24] <KenMan> we need a way to measure the percent of queries that attempt to go SOMEWHERE but wind up going NOWHERE.
[22:24] <KenMan> I am, but Toad won't listen to me.
[22:24] <salahx> well, what ?
[22:25] <KenMan> it is very simple. We have a set of routes providing us with a collective capacity to issue 1348 requests in the next hour.
[22:25] <KenMan> We need to adjust our outgoing MRIs such that we do not take in more than that many
[22:25] <KenMan> AND we need to address the query multiplication issue. It must be factored into the above equation
[22:26] <salahx> dont; we do something like that alreaay ?
[22:26] <KenMan> it is completely ineffective, and Toad outright rejected the notion that he might want to pay attention to incoming MRIs
[22:26] <salahx> yeah i remember that
[22:26] <KenMan> I'm just a little frustrated, because I've been yammering about the same problem since february
[22:27] <KenMan> I can't figure out what I need to present in front of his eyes in order for him to acknowledge it is a problem
[22:27] <salahx> now what are the incoming mRI ?
[22:28] <KenMan> he deflects many suggestions or comments if they aren't directly in-line with his style of thinking...
[22:28] <KenMan> incoming MRI is an indicator a route sends to a requestor telling the requestor the maximum rate of queries that can be sent over that one route
[22:29] <salahx> ok
[22:29] <salahx> so the incing mRI is what the othern ode is limiting US to
[22:29] <KenMan> well, don't get caught using the word 'rate' around here, it will cause the rest of your words to be ignored. Use the word 'backoff' instead, if you want to be heard.
[22:29] <KenMan> yes.
[22:30] <KenMan> and if you add them up for all routes, you can figure out how many requests you can possibly send in the next hour.
[22:31] <salahx> but the mRI arebn't constatn though
[22:31] <KenMan> except, he changes them every 200ms, and sends a new value. For intervals that are on the order of 'once every 30 seconds' . Then 417ms later, "Oops, it is now 13 seconds"
[22:31] <KenMan> it is quite ridiculous to anyone who has ever implemented ANY form of rate control before
[22:32] <salahx> why does the mRI change so much though ?
[22:33] <KenMan> toad is not really interested in or attempting to create rates. Rather, he is attempting to communicate the local load measurement to all peers in near-real time.
[22:33] <KenMan> because of lots of overly complicated and incorrectly implemented algorithms that make up most of this code :(
[22:34] <salahx> sSo want the mRI to remain mostly contat then, right ?
[22:34] <KenMan> if a design team could capture the behavior of FreeNet as it stands for the next 20 minutes (before someone rewrites major parts and pieces), they could then recreate the code and the result would be 1/4 the size , or less
[22:34] * fj4j8998 (~34fj0349@AC8CBBE5.ipt.aol.com) has joined #freenet
[22:35] <KenMan> I want it to have a limitation on how much it can change over time, so somewhat constant. Much more constant than it ever has been.
[22:35] <KenMan> enough to allow requestors to be able to react to it in a reasonable manner
[22:35] <KenMan> now, to be fair, what toad has built IS in fact working exactly like he designed it to.
[22:36] <KenMan> When he jerks these MRIs around by large amounts in near real-time updates, the requestors are forced to react to it, by hitting "all routes are backed off" sorry, here is an RNF.
[22:36] * KenMan feels slightly better for trashing Mr Toad and his Code
[22:37] * KenMan also feels slightly guilty, but mostly just plain frustrated
[22:37] <salahx> Well I beleive the mRI are calcuated both instatnoeus and average
[22:38] <KenMan> I have a lot of criticism for the current implementation. And we all make mistakes...
[22:38] <salahx> well how SHOULD it be calcualted then ?
[22:38] * fj4j8998 (~34fj0349@AC8CBBE5.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:38] <KenMan> I just hope that when I tell toad that my node is hitting a brick wall on 47% of the requests it is trying to route, he might acknowledge that it is a SERIOUS problem. I will give him a one line patch to measure it on his own node.
[22:39] <KenMan> I haven't actually calculated the 47% part, but I expect it to be rather close to that.
[22:40] <KenMan> the biggest difference between my model and toad's - he is attempting to set a limit, and then walk right up to it. At which point you hit the brick wall. I on the other hand advocate using an average.
[22:40] <salahx> don;t we alrady calacute the average mRI though ?
[22:40] <KenMan> His algorithms are pushing the backoff % to 100, by design.
[22:41] <salahx> I beelive the aglorisim is supped to ensure 100% node utilization
[22:41] <KenMan> we have to calculate a proper value to give to our requestors. That is what CONTROLS (hard-limits, in his mind) our incoming qph
[22:42] <KenMan> 100% node utilization means that every routing has absolutely NO CHOICE in the route taken, because only one will be available. That is "random routing" in a nutshell
[22:42] <salahx> ok
[22:42] <salahx> But how SHOULD thje peroper value be calcuated ?
[22:43] <KenMan> it is actually pretty simple. One must consider the query multiplication ratio, and first reduce it if possible. Then you simply need to balance the aggregate out-capacity against the in-capacity.
[22:44] <KenMan> Say we have 50 routes, and each is offering to accept no more than 25qph each. That means we can issue out 1250 qph MAXIMUM. Since peers=routes, we should give each peer a quota such that they add up to 1250qph, adjusted for reality and Qmultiplication factors
[22:44] * dERMOTH (~dERMOTH@dsl-131-244.aei.ca) has joined #freenet
[22:45] <KenMan> Right now, for the queries that do get to pass through our node, many of them generate 3 or more outgoing queries (due to RNFs that return back).
[22:46] <KenMan> so, with 1250qph out, we could only offer 1250/4 incoming queries. This equation clearly cannot be supported by all nodes : "I will accept 1/4 of what I need to put out"
[22:47] <KenMan> the problem is basic, it was recognized long ago, but it has not been addressed.
[22:47] <KenMan> And we suffer along with umpteen (in Newsbyte-speak) patches and upgrades that try to ferret out some magic dust that will correct everything.
[22:50] <KenMan> I am really angry with Toad, and yet I have not been patient enough to explain my opinions in sufficient detail. And I'm never sure he is willing to listen in sufficient detail.
[22:51] <KenMan> sometimes I have trouble explaining my concepts clearly enough that another person can get the "big picture" I am trying to share. I think this happens everyday between millions of personalities...
[22:51] * KenMan might be done ranting for now...
[22:51] * salahx is reading
[22:53] <KenMan> anyway, I hope I have found the final 'demonstration' that will make Toad fall back a step and say "oh. Oh Yeah. Oh SHIT!"
[22:53] <KenMan> because I am done trying.
[22:56] * salahx is still reading
[22:57] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-55-147.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[22:58] <salahx> ok, so incoming mRI should equal outgoing mRI basically ?
[23:01] <salahx> well it doesn?t make sense to accept mroe requereis than we can actually route, so it makes sense in the regard
[23:01] <KenMan> well, in simplified terms , yes. It must be. Or the network falls apart, as it does now.
[23:01] <salahx> (Unless, of coruse, our node has the data)
[23:01] <KenMan> Right now, every node is issuing something like 2 or 3 times as many queries as it receives requests. This is not conducive to a working network :o
[23:02] <KenMan> yes, and the other event in our favor is that some requests expire (reach max HTL) on our node
[23:02] <salahx> of course there?s also a feedback problem too: if node start increate the mRI, so does ours, which cuases othern does to increase, etc...
[23:03] <KenMan> both of these events work in our favor. Anyway, once toad sees the problem, hopefully he will take his time in crafting a solution, instead of hammering out hundreds of lines of code as thoughts come to him.
[23:03] <KenMan> salahx: we can calculate the maximum number of successes our nodes can process based on bandwidth and perhaps CPU.
[23:04] <KenMan> we can observe the request success rate, and allow that many more queries to pass through
[23:04] <KenMan> say, success for last hour = 10% , my node can serve out 68 requests max (on average), so accept 680 over the next hour. Toad has a handle on these concepts.
[23:05] <KenMan> you never get it dead-on, but the better you can approximate the average, the better you can benefit the network.
[23:05] <salahx> but you;re assuming pSuccess is (almost) contant though
[23:06] <KenMan> Oh, but if you start to browse, the resources you can offer to your requestors goes into deeper shit. Because there is no rate limiting on local queries. Thus you can compete with and beat out all peer-queries with little problem.
[23:06] <KenMan> netwide pSucess should not fluctuate from 2% to 85% in an hour's time. Hell it has taken us 6 months to raise it from 1% to 1.5% !!
[23:07] * KenMan knows that when we get things right, success will skyrocket. Thus qph must shuffle down in response.
[23:07] <salahx> right
[23:07] <KenMan> it is fair to assume that netwide-success is almost constant.
[23:07] <salahx> yeah it probably
[23:08] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-64-45-226-120.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[23:08] <KenMan> i think that when netwide success goes above 10%, that is my criteria for a new (0.6) major release. Or some modicum of respect for freenet, anyway.
[23:09] <salahx> althoguh it could be the (data we can route without mRI) < (node capacity)
[23:09] <KenMan> # queries we can transfer < total queries we can search for ?? I don't understand you.
[23:09] <salahx> Wehre node capacity = F(outging bandwidth,pSuccess,avgTRailerSize)
[23:10] <KenMan> yes, you have the right variables captured there :)
[23:10] <KenMan> Mr Toad likes to include CPU power in it as well
[23:10] * greycat (rfc1413@wooledge.org) Quit ("Lick Bush in '04")
[23:10] <salahx> ror rather F(outging bandwidth,pSuccess,avgTRailerSize,messageSizeFuidgeFactor)
[23:11] <salahx> in 99%+ the klimiting factor will be outging bandwidth
[23:11] <KenMan> and one thing that absolutely must not be overlooked is the number of peers. It is critical that this is considered, in order to balance the in's and the out's
[23:11] <KenMan> yes, outgoing bandwidth is the most precious resource
[23:12] <salahx> if there are other vairable, its probably best to calcule them in outgoign bandwidth, i.e. F(load1,load2,outgoingAndiswth) = Effectiove Outgoing Bandwidth
[23:13] <KenMan> in theory, FreeNet should be able to work with 10 peers just as easily as 100. The only reason we are at 100 (or 200 or whatever) is that the broken rate limiting experiences rigor-mortis below 30 or 40.
[23:13] <salahx> so if a node can only process half the requersts due to CPU, weffectiveo tugoign bandswith wouth be OutingBAndswith/2
[23:13] <KenMan> The only variable that affects CPU limitations seems to be number of peers, in my book anyway.
[23:14] <KenMan> I think 25 peers is rather a high number, but 100 is unacceptable to me. I run with 80 and feel sorry that the software cannot handle less.
[23:14] <salahx> does it really take that long ot make a routing decision ?
[23:15] <KenMan> The more peers, the more calculations. The more memory use. And the more OOMs NPEs and OOPs'es ...(last one is a pun)
[23:15] <salahx> lol
[23:15] <KenMan> I got terrific memory use by using half the peers everyone else has been using for a long long time. And my node can stand up twice as long as it takes for the others to fall over.
[23:16] <KenMan> FreeNet, as provided and configured as suggested, is a total pig. Without merit.
[23:16] * KenMan has to stop his complaints now, or he will use up his karma
[23:18] <KenMan> to be more positive, all the profiling that people were doing a few months ago really paid off in memory use reductions
[23:18] <jabawok_h2> hi all, anyone got a couple mins to answer a couple of questions and get me up and running again?
[23:18] <KenMan> At that time, the code was so abhorrent, it would crash within 24 hours for most users...
[23:18] <salahx> so you think the deep approach (lower nubmer of peers, higher HTL) is better htan the wide apprioach (higher nubmero f peer, lower HTL) ?
[23:19] <KenMan> irrespective of HTL , i like lower number of peers. The original design can accomodate any number of peers, but when you reach a fully connected network, you can't take it any further.
[23:19] <KenMan> hi jabawok_h2 , how are things ?
[23:20] <jabawok_h2> ok, node has been down since 5090, can't get it to start up
[23:20] <KenMan> on windows ?
[23:20] <jabawok_h2> at first it was ooming straight away.. (gentoo btw) now increased java mem back up to 256 megs and it seems to hang once usage getss to about 200M
[23:20] <jabawok_h2> plenty of swap space free..
[23:21] <jabawok_h2> no logfile output (nothing to stdout as well)
[23:21] <jabawok_h2> only a single process (hasn't split into 50million processes yet)
[23:21] <KenMan> delete store/index for starters , how big is your datastore ?
[23:21] <jabawok_h2> 20G, 80% full
[23:21] <jabawok_h2> noooo
[23:21] <jabawok_h2> :)
[23:22] <KenMan> sounds like something (disk file) got corrupted. Delete store/index , and the index will be recreated at startup.
[23:22] <jabawok_h2> = delete datastore?
[23:22] <KenMan> no. Just the index , a file named "index"
[23:22] <jabawok_h2> ahh. ok.
[23:22] <jabawok_h2> back soon
[23:23] * KenMan is glad to see someone who respects the datastore
[23:24] <jabawok_h2> yah
[23:24] <jabawok_h2> heres the output of ps v -A btw..
[23:24] <jabawok_h2> 24822 pts/22 SN 1:28 319 55 532400 131836 34.2 /opt/sun-jdk-1.4.2.05/bin/java -server -Xmx256M freenet.node.Main -p /etc/freenet.conf
[23:24] <jabawok_h2> so its hung at 131836k mem usage
[23:24] <jabawok_h2> ie it's using 0% cpu atm
[23:24] <jabawok_h2> one process only
[23:24] <KenMan> have you possibly run it as a different userid ? that could cause some trouble, i would expect. Always run it as one user. Gentoo scripts should ensure this, but I don't use gentoo, so what do I know ??
[23:25] <jabawok_h2> is there a way to increase verbosity, before i try deleting the index?
[23:25] <salahx> Gentoo ?
[23:25] <KenMan> and no logfile creation huh ? are any of your filesystems at 0% available ? run 'df'
[23:25] <jabawok_h2> runs as freenet user, yes gentoo
[23:25] <jabawok_h2> 5G free disk space on /
[23:25] <salahx> USe NPLT ?
[23:25] <salahx> err NPTL ?
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> use
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> ues
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> yes
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> doh
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> sorry forgot to menution
[23:26] <salahx> ok, well if you are using NPTL, you?ll only see 1 process
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> i've just converted to nptl
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> AHH!
[23:26] <salahx> I use it under Gennto and Freenet nad it works fine :)
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> bingo
[23:26] * KenMan likes to see people experiment with other JVMs, NPTL, etc and report SUCCESS :)
[23:26] <jabawok_h2> I just assumed its some random prob with 5090.. didn't think of ntpl differences
[23:27] <KenMan> but you report no freenet.log file . This is a new behavior ?!
[23:27] <jabawok_h2> just emerged latest sun-jdk (ends with _05)
[23:27] <jabawok_h2> hang on let me double check a few things
[23:27] <salahx> FReenet broke when I switched to NPTL, I commeneted out the LD_ASSUME_KERNEL thing in the start up script and that fixed it
[23:27] <salahx> ok
[23:28] <jabawok_h2> yep already done that..
[23:28] <salahx> ok
[23:28] <jabawok_h2> that was the first thign that i fixed... a quick google solved that one
[23:28] <salahx> FReenet also tends to choke on the seedndes.ref downblaod frm the site
[23:28] <jabawok_h2> SHEESH
[23:28] <jabawok_h2> its working
[23:28] <salahx> there ya go :)
[23:29] <jabawok_h2> how the hell is it working and using almost 0%
[23:29] <jabawok_h2> I just assumed its not working.. didn't bother actually checking fred
[23:29] <salahx> YEp, NPTL works THAT good
[23:30] <jabawok_h2> it doesn't report at all on 'top' are nptl processes hidden or something?
[23:30] <jabawok_h2> surely it would report 0.1% or something
[23:30] <salahx> it shoudl show up a ?java?
[23:30] <salahx> err java
[23:30] <jabawok_h2> yah i thought it should
[23:31] <salahx> I ca?bnt saee it on top either but its there on ps...
[23:31] <jabawok_h2> hmm should i re-emerge psmisc or whatever has top? maybe it needs to be nptl aware or something
[23:31] <salahx> dunno, maybe its jsut too low in the list to show up
[23:32] <jabawok_h2> surely not
[23:32] <salahx> Freebet spends most of its time on I/O
[23:33] <KenMan> or at least it should :o
[23:33] <hirvox> yes, especially with NativeBigInteger
[23:34] <hirvox> sorting by memory usage should make the freenet process visible, though :(
[23:36] <jabawok_h2> hmm yes that makes it very visible... (150M used atm)
[23:36] <jabawok_h2> i wonder why it's not registering any CPU used, - it's clearly a wrong reading..
[23:38] <salahx> does the same here but it IS working
[23:39] <jabawok_h2> anyone know a way to make it register? i'll check /proc/<pid> and try and work out how to decypher the "stat" file.. (i think this is where top gets it's info from)
[23:42] * Kyon (~Kyon@pcd396122.netvigator.com) has joined #freenet
[23:44] <salahx> not sure, I enver eally bothered to check, becasue it jsut works...
[23:46] <jabawok_h2> hmm /proc/<pid>/stat seems correct, just top not using it properly.. i'll re-emerge psmisc or whatever has top in it and see what happens
[23:51] <jabawok_h2> * NOTE: By default "ps" and "top" no longer
[23:51] <jabawok_h2> * show threads. You can use the '-m' flag
[23:51] <jabawok_h2> * in ps or the 'H' key in top to show them
[23:51] <jabawok_h2> bingo
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.