Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:00] <jay> something else
[0:01] <jay> like FormatError or Failed usually
[0:01] <Hamled> ok
[0:01] <Hamled> I get so many RNF errors right now, that I couldn't be sure
[0:01] <jay> i think theres a baduri message too
[0:03] <jay> paste the uri
[0:06] <Hamled> oh, it's not a wrong URI
[0:06] <Hamled> it's just since I just started out, I'm getting a lot of route not found errors
[0:06] <Hamled> but things are slowly becoming available
[0:07] <jay> k
[0:10] * Knio installs freenet
[0:10] <Hamled> it's a virus!
[0:13] <Hamled> what does FEC mean?
[0:14] * proteusguy (proteusguy@66-90-229-217.dyn.grandenetworks.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[0:17] <jay> forward error correction
[0:18] <jay> http://freenetproject.org/index.php?page=faq#fec
[0:22] * Knio_ (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[0:22] * Knio (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[0:24] <jay> there's 900,000 users on quakenet irc
[0:43] <Knio_> so, what can I do to stop RNF errors? just wait?
[0:43] <Hamled> you gotta keep attempting to access stuff
[0:44] <Knio_> ah
[0:44] <Hamled> I dunno exactly how the system works, but sometimes I can get a page, and other times when I try to reload it, it comes up as RNF
[0:44] <Knio_> sometimes i'm getting "The request couldn't even make it off of your node." also
[0:45] <Hamled> it might help to increase the hops to live
[0:45] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) Quit ("gnite")
[0:50] <Knio_> hrm.. is it always like this?
[0:50] <Hamled> *shrug*
[1:01] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[1:03] * thelema is now known as thelema|away
[1:07] <jabawok_h2> Knio_ and Hamled - freenet is just going through a transition to a new routing system, you need to wait a day or to for it to stabilise, and keep your eyes open for any updates, there will probably be a few bugfixes(and therefore new stable releases) over the next few days/weeks
[1:07] <Knio_> ah
[1:07] <Hamled> k
[1:07] <Hamled> i thought this was just how it was :P
[1:11] <Knio_> woo, made it to the help page
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[2:09] <michaelkuijn> This is from Nubile: "Freenet nodes over time specialize in certain types of keys (for example, keys starting with 'a') and learn who to go to for certain other types." Why the first letter/number ?
[2:13] * SageofLit3 (yu@basc-cas3-cs-4.dial.bright.net) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
[2:13] <michaelkuijn> Oooh 17 hours 42 minutes
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[2:54] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
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[6:44] <Lux> mornin
[6:45] <Lux> Current probability of a request succeeding 6.2%
[6:45] * greycat (rfc1413@wooledge.org) Quit ("Lick Bush in '04")
[6:47] <Lux> after 9 hr 27 mins: 47/47
[6:47] <Lux> DSI = 47, Rec = 47
[6:52] <verl> lux: hows your load? mine was crazy at startup but seemed to calm down after all
[6:53] <Lux> verl: Current estimated load for rate limiting 130.4%
[6:53] <Lux> Load due to output bandwidth limiting = 130.4%
[6:53] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) has joined #FreeNet
[6:53] <Lux> the sendTimeRequest dropped to 60%
[6:53] <Lux> from 290 lol
[6:53] <Lux> whats ur prob of req succeeding verl?
[6:54] <verl> 3%...ratelimit hovers nicely around 100% as do bandwith usuage
[6:55] <Lux> i like it so far
[6:56] <verl> had many rnfs? i have not run in to one yet
[6:56] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-402418b2.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) has joined #freenet
[6:58] <Lux> yea
[6:58] <Lux> about one i think
[6:58] <Lux> cant remember though
[6:58] <Lux> probably was a DNF
[7:01] <verl> yeah, rnf should still happen, although we mostly ran into them before 'cause of the bug (i think!)
[7:02] <Lux> ok
[7:02] <Lux> well im certainly a lot happier with it all
[7:06] <Lux> post on frost: ----- Athropos@XfUuvR7bcju8xZxFf2WisPjYPFY ----- 2004.08.06 - 07:35:41GMT -----
[7:06] <Lux> in my fred's known node list shows up a 5090 build
[7:06] <Lux> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5088 1
[7:06] <Lux> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5089 324
[7:06] <Lux> Fred,0.5,STABLE-1.50,5090 3
[7:06] <Lux> is this a fake entry or there is a new build available?
[7:06] <Lux> --
[7:06] <Lux> Gaze once more upon the Loom, if you want to know your destiny.
[7:06] <Lux> For the destiny is upon you now!
[7:06] <Lux> sounds like me u (verl) and toad_
[7:06] <Lux> ?
[7:06] <verl> hehe, sure does :)
[7:07] <Lux> should i reply
[7:07] <verl> we are kings among men!
[7:07] <Lux> and say its the kickass dev team aka toad_ who is testing?
[7:07] <verl> yes you should
[7:08] * Janete (~jano@155.210.155.101) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
[7:08] <ShaunMacPherson> :)
[7:09] <Lux> i have
[7:10] <Lux> and my node just died :P
[7:11] <Lux> and its back again
[7:11] <verl> what would cause such a thing?
[7:11] <Lux> i have no clue
[7:11] <Lux> nothing in logs
[7:11] <Lux> probably my laptop overheating :p
[7:14] <ShaunMacPherson> what kind of laptop?
[7:14] <ShaunMacPherson> buy the new HP linux laptop
[7:14] <ShaunMacPherson> :)
[7:14] <ShaunMacPherson> we should have a laptop party and make a huge test network of freenet
[7:14] <Lux> cant remember what kind lol
[7:15] <Lux> its from Time
[7:15] <ShaunMacPherson> kool
[7:15] <Lux> but everything works in Linux including the wireless card
[7:15] <Lux> so heh
[7:15] <ShaunMacPherson> i have a 386 laptop
[7:15] <Lux> 2.4ghz Axp
[7:15] <Lux> 40GB HDD
[7:15] <Lux> Cd-Writer
[7:15] <ShaunMacPherson> that is good
[7:15] <Lux> with insurance :p
[7:15] <Lux> running gentoo - 2.6.3-mm2
[7:18] <ShaunMacPherson> i have knoppix
[7:19] <Lux> im running gentoo on my desktop and laptop
[7:19] <ShaunMacPherson> is it good?
[7:19] <ShaunMacPherson> i dont mind knoppix
[7:19] <ShaunMacPherson> it uses KDE
[7:19] <ShaunMacPherson> iwanted Gnome
[7:19] <Lux> i like it
[7:19] <Lux> :)
[7:20] <ShaunMacPherson> does it use kde?
[7:20] <Lux> i use both
[7:20] <ShaunMacPherson> kool
[7:20] <Lux> gentoo is completely compile from source
[7:20] <ShaunMacPherson> i might try mandrake next
[7:20] <Lux> i thought knoppix was like gentoo?
[7:20] <ShaunMacPherson> knoppix is like debian mostly i think
[7:21] <ShaunMacPherson> i just started using it
[7:21] <ShaunMacPherson> but the help screen said it was debian, i heard debian is hard to install
[7:22] <Lux> gentoo is hardest
[7:22] <Lux> debian is for experienced ppl
[7:23] <Lux> i found mandrake the best pick up n play distro
[7:29] <Lux> but when i got broadband
[7:29] <Lux> i switched to gentoo
[7:29] <Lux> cos i have never been keen on RPMs
[7:29] <Lux> and debian was way out of date (ie having to update too much from the base install)
[7:39] <ShaunMacPherson> other people are telling me to get gentoo also
[7:39] <ShaunMacPherson> so i guess i will have to try it, only 10 more to go after it to try them out <sigh> :P
[7:39] * proteusguy (proteusguy@66-90-229-17.dyn.grandenetworks.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
[7:50] <Lux> lol
[7:50] <ShaunMacPherson> :)
[7:51] <ShaunMacPherson> they also told me not to run red hat
[7:51] <Lux> hehe
[7:51] <Lux> i agree
[7:53] <ShaunMacPherson> :)
[7:59] * robilad[afk] is now known as robilad
[8:00] <ninja_> http://funroll-loops.org
[8:02] <Lux> nice site: "I find it suprising no one has mentioned the fact that Gentoo the only mainstream distro that uses gcc3 for everything. That's what brought me to Gentoo in the first place"
[8:03] <ShaunMacPherson> hmmm
[8:03] <ShaunMacPherson> i'll have to find what gcc3 is, but it sounds impressive :)
[8:03] * ninja_ runs away :p
[8:03] <ShaunMacPherson> kool link ninja
[8:04] <ShaunMacPherson> anything with cars makes me like it hehye
[8:04] <Lux> Im using gcc 3.3.4 ??
[8:04] <Lux> i think
[8:13] <Lux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 134 (23/111)
[8:13] <Lux> lol
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[8:23] <Lux> hey greycat
[8:24] <greycat> hi
[8:26] <mazzanet> greycat!
[8:27] <ShaunMacPherson> hi
[8:28] <ShaunMacPherson> that seems good, i havent used freenet in a while
[8:28] <ShaunMacPherson> :)
[8:28] <Lux> anyone like Microsoft products?
[8:29] <Lux> I hear they are rebranding to reach more people........... http://0chan.net/w/src/1091637534129.jpg
[8:30] <ShaunMacPherson> heh
[8:30] <ShaunMacPherson> i saw that on b0g.org lol
[8:32] <iip_i2p> <mazza> pinkcat!
[8:34] <Lux> lol
[8:34] <Lux> grey must shift to pink via iip :P
[8:34] <iip_i2p> <mazzanet> heh
[8:37] * greycat has never been pink.
[8:37] <iip_i2p> <mazzanet> he is now :P
[8:41] <iip_i2p> <mazzanet> *grabs tin of paint*
[8:43] <Lux> hehe
[8:43] <Lux> Invisible Paint?
[8:44] <Lux> Current probability of a request succeeding 7.7%
[8:44] <Lux> good to see rate limiting working: Current estimated load for rate limiting 153.3%
[8:44] <ShaunMacPherson> it gives you guess now?
[8:44] <ShaunMacPherson> that is a new feature
[8:47] <Lux> its on the General Information screen
[8:47] <Lux> at the bottom
[8:50] <Lux> in frost i have a status of 100%, but it hasnt finished?
[8:50] <lostlogic> Lux: it's sending the healing blocks most likely
[8:50] <Lux> Ok
[8:51] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
[8:56] <Lux> "The healing powers of freenet"
[8:58] * robilad[afk] is now known as robilad
[9:06] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-402418b2.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) Quit ("Going to the moon")
[9:06] <Lux> umm
[9:06] <Lux> "Going to the moon".. would u get "PNFs"... (Planet Not Found) if Freenet went solar?
[9:10] * toad_ hehehehe re http://greenfly.org/mes.html
[9:10] <toad_> the problem with debian, of course, is that if you want anything remotely up to date you need to run unstable or at least testing
[9:10] <Lux> hey toad :)
[9:10] <toad_> also cpu specific optimizations make a HUGE difference on SOME things
[9:10] * toad_ thinks compiling everything will ultimately win over
[9:10] <toad_> ALL geeks
[9:11] <toad_> once computers are about 50* faster than they are now :)
[9:11] <mazzanet> toadey!
[9:11] <toad_> <ShaunMacPherson> anything with cars makes me like it hehye - anything with cars makes me dislike it :)
[9:12] <greycat> the advantage of living on a tiny little island...
[9:12] <toad_> hi
[9:12] <mazzanet> a tiny little pink island...
[9:13] <toad_> unfortunately when computers are 50x faster than they are now they will have mandatory DRM and won't be able to run non-corporatized linux anyway :)
[9:13] <greycat> nah, Britain's not pink. it would clash with Ireland.
[9:13] <mazzanet> but you're pink
[9:13] <mazzanet> :P
[9:13] <Lux> "Cat In Pink"
[9:14] <toad_> greycat: we have public transport, which is pretty run down. Whereas most of the US a) is designed deliberately to boost car sales and b) the car and tarmac companies bought up and dismantled ALL public transport
[9:14] <toad_> illegally, but nobody cares
[9:14] <iip_i2p> <mazzanet> boo!
[9:14] <greycat> and also, everything's too spread out to walk
[9:15] <toad_> greycat: that's part a)
[9:15] <greycat> it's not by design, though. we just have more space
[9:15] <toad_> but any city is too big to walk everywhere
[9:15] <toad_> even in the UK
[9:15] <toad_> no, on the whole, it's by design
[9:15] <toad_> read up on the history
[9:15] <toad_> clever economic ploy
[9:16] <toad_> :)
[9:16] <toad_> anyway, how's my 5090?
[9:16] <Lux> great
[9:16] <greycat> no worse than 5089
[9:16] <Lux> apart from load
[9:16] <verl> toad: very good
[9:16] <toad_> okay
[9:16] <Lux> some geezer on frost noticed a 5090 out
[9:16] <Lux> on 3 nodes
[9:16] * toad_ will release it soon on the unsuspecting masses :)
[9:16] <Lux> i took it to mean, me toad_ and verl
[9:17] <iip_i2p> <mazzanet> we have pretty good public transport here
[9:17] <greycat> I had it running over night
[9:17] <toad_> and then after i will see what i can do about the load
[9:17] <toad_> and then you can betatest 5091 too
[9:17] <Lux> well the RNFs are WAYYYYY GONE
[9:17] <toad_> mazzanet: where?
[9:17] <Lux> just DNFs now
[9:17] <Lux> occasional RNF
[9:17] <Lux> but very rare
[9:17] <mazzanet> here :P
[9:17] <verl> toad: the problems with load on startup were serious though
[9:17] <mazzanet> aus
[9:17] <toad_> i hear it varies from NY's pretty great public transport to Pittsburgh's nil?
[9:17] <toad_> ahhh
[9:18] <toad_> well oz isn't spread out, is it? you've got loads of space but 99% of it is farms?
[9:18] <iip_i2p> <mazzanet> quite a few trams
[9:18] <toad_> verl: explain?
[9:18] <iip_i2p> <mazzanet> and busses
[9:18] <Lux> toad_: Load due to output bandwidth limiting = 130.8% << is the main one
[9:18] <Lux> NOW
[9:19] <toad_> Lux: didn't that happen before?
[9:19] <Lux> >> Load due to messageSendTimeRequest << was the HIGH one early on
[9:19] <verl> toad: it went crazy using 200% bandwith and ratelimit was overladed as well
[9:19] <toad_> i suppose it might take a little longer to settle...
[9:19] <toad_> because of the averaging of global
[9:19] <toad_> Quota...
[9:19] <toad_> well, load due to mSTR is ALWAYS high early on for me
[9:19] <Lux> i like this:: Current probability of a request succeeding 6.9%
[9:19] <toad_> that's pretty solid!
[9:20] <verl> 4,4% here, but rising
[9:20] <toad_> is "Load due to expected outbound transfers" pretty low for you?
[9:20] <toad_> consistently?
[9:20] <toad_> it ought to be close to 100% after a while
[9:20] <toad_> but it isn't
[9:20] <toad_> some bug...
[9:20] <Lux> Load due to expected outbound transfers: 18.1%
[9:21] <iip_i2p> <mazzanet> gah
[9:21] <verl> Load due to expected outbound transfers: 12,5%
[9:22] <toad_> mazzanet: actually i'm surprised you have good transport given your government
[9:22] <toad_> usually right wing governments do all they can to destroy public transport to boost the economy :)
[9:22] <mazzanet> heh
[9:23] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@abd72.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[9:23] * Ash-Foxeus (Hal-9000@abd72.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #FreeNET
[9:32] <toad_> aha
[9:32] <toad_> i found it
[9:32] <toad_> willSendRequests
[9:44] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> I guess about 40% of the nodes are at 5089 atm. however i still found no evidence of 5089 on the main web page.
[9:45] <verl> perhaps it will be done with the release of 5090?
[9:50] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) has joined #freenet
[9:57] <toad_> verl: I've done that, and I'm doing one other change (cap on globalQuota based on bandwidth)
[9:57] <toad_> then I'll send you a new jar to test
[9:58] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[9:58] <Lux> jar?
[9:58] <Lux> where
[9:58] <Lux> sorry im wrapped up in summat else at hte moment
[9:59] * toad_ will dcc to Lux, verl, and greycat
[9:59] <toad_> okay?
[10:00] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) has joined #FreeNet
[10:00] <toad_> it should behave a bit better w.r.t. load
[10:01] <toad_> ooops: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/05/0415206
[10:01] <Lux> k
[10:01] <toad_> Systems Affected
[10:01] <toad_> Applications and systems that use the libpng library.
[10:01] <Lux> :) say when
[10:01] <toad_> not good!
[10:02] <toad_> |This was one of the security fixes (arguably the only exploitable hole) that was included in yesterday's releases, 1.7.2, 0.9.3, and 0.7.3.
[10:02] <toad_> ahhhh
[10:02] * lolo-laptop saw that... so don't download untrusted PNGs :-?
[10:03] <toad_> lolo-laptop: or update your browser to the above
[10:04] * michaelkuijn (~michaelku@fia41-111.dsl.hccnet.nl) has joined #freenet
[10:07] * Sweden_boy (~Dario@c213-100-142-15.swipnet.se) has joined #freenet
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[10:09] * thelema|away is now known as thelema
[10:09] <Lux> so
[10:10] <Lux> what will this new jar fix>?
[10:10] <Lux> fix / break
[10:10] <toad_> sorry, final tweaks
[10:10] * ticoli (~ticoli@179.254.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #freenet
[10:10] <toad_> it should improve rate limiting relative to the previous one
[10:12] <Lux> cool
[10:12] * toad_ hmph re legal flamewar on support
[10:12] <Lux> u just keep making it better and better dont ya
[10:12] <toad_> a doj clerk (typist? researcher? not lawyer anyway) claiming running a freenet node is illegal...
[10:13] <Lux> where is that?
[10:13] <Lux> Department of Juveniles?
[10:14] <Lux> Dumb Or Joking
[10:14] <Lux> ?
[10:14] <michaelkuijn> What is this Findley thing?
[10:14] <michaelkuijn> Lux? Kidding?
[10:14] * thelema has to go in 10 min
[10:15] <michaelkuijn> Let's play a game. Whoever can call the most DOx's in 10 seconds wins!
[10:16] <toad_> Energy!
[10:16] <michaelkuijn> DOC DOC DOJ DOT (?)
[10:16] <michaelkuijn> Oops dounle
[10:16] <michaelkuijn> s/dounle/double
[10:16] * ticoli (~ticoli@179.254.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) Quit ("Leaving")
[10:17] <toad_> :)
[10:17] * toad_ is going to recompile, restart, check that the dumb formatting bug is fixed, dcc
[10:17] <thelema> COmmerce, Interior, treasury, Homeland Security
[10:17] <toad_> then go have breakfast and lunch
[10:18] <toad_> Energy
[10:18] <toad_> Defence
[10:18] <thelema> State,
[10:18] <toad_> Truth!
[10:18] <toad_> Peace!
[10:18] <michaelkuijn> I wish
[10:18] <toad_> <shudder><drumroll>Love!
[10:18] <thelema> Naturalization/immigration
[10:18] <thelema> Veteran's affairs
[10:19] <toad_> they're Ministries though
[10:19] <toad_> not Departments
[10:20] <thelema> Agriculture, Air Force,
[10:20] <michaelkuijn> Btw. Why does FUQID give me "Inserting failed" all the time?
[10:20] <lolo-laptop> you trying to say something toad? Is the code for this not yet in CVS?
[10:20] <thelema> Army, commerce,
[10:20] <michaelkuijn> I'm integrated good
[10:20] <toad_> lolo-laptop: it will be 5090
[10:20] <michaelkuijn> toad?
[10:20] <Lux> DoT Department of Tourism
[10:20] <toad_> but has some changes not yet in unstable
[10:20] <toad_> are you on stable or unstable atm?
[10:20] <Lux> aka GW Bush :p
[10:20] <toad_> michaelkuijn: want to try out 5090?
[10:20] <lolo-laptop> toad_: OK... I'm on stable network... running latest CVS code
[10:20] <thelema> Defense, Energy, Health & Human Services
[10:21] <michaelkuijn> toad_, oh yes! Thanks
[10:21] <Lux> Department of Health and Social Services
[10:21] <lolo-laptop> toad_: something went wrong with this DCC I think it tried to resume a smaller Jar I had sitting around there...
[10:21] <michaelkuijn> What's new in 'ninety?
[10:21] <thelema> Interior, Justice, Navy, State Transportation, Treasury
[10:22] <thelema> and Veterans Affairs is a department. (according to my phone bok
[10:22] <Lux> Department of Sanitation?
[10:22] <thelema> time to go
[10:22] * thelema is now known as thelema|away
[10:22] <michaelkuijn> Mmmm. These away messages suck
[10:22] <toad_> lolo-laptop: want me to try again?
[10:22] <lolo-laptop> toad_: plz yeah
[10:23] <michaelkuijn> toad_, is this some DCC broadcast?
[10:23] <jokern> toad_: could you dcc me that jar?
[10:23] <toad_> michaelkuijn: loads of stuff
[10:23] <toad_> fixed the RNFs bug
[10:23] <toad_> rate limiting work
[10:23] <toad_> various other stuff
[10:23] <toad_> it's good, believe me
[10:23] <michaelkuijn> Ah good!
[10:23] <toad_> but i need some final testing before i unleash it
[10:23] <michaelkuijn> I'll be happy to
[10:24] <toad_> as the previous prerelease did some bad things re load
[10:24] <verl> toad: tell us what to look for, ie startup behaviour?
[10:24] <michaelkuijn> Too bad I'll have to kill my uptime ;-)
[10:24] <michaelkuijn> I'll tail -f the logs
[10:24] <jokern> Anyone know if there are an "oldnet" out there? I still get loads of hits on port used in Sept. last year
[10:25] <Lux> but dont you decide on the port yourself?
[10:25] <Lux> or was it always through one port originally?
[10:25] <Lux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 83 (6/77)
[10:26] <lolo-laptop> Lux: you do decide your own port, he's saying that a port he no longer uses for freenet is still getting connection attempts
[10:26] <Lux> hehea *bit* one sided but heh :p
[10:27] <hirvox> hrm, 27% packet loss..
[10:27] <jokern> I think I need a seednodes for the "new"net
[10:28] * hobx_ (~chatzilla@ankh.math.chalmers.se) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[10:28] <toad_> bbiab
[10:29] * ticoli (~ticoli@179.254.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #freenet
[10:30] <michaelkuijn> toad_, got it
[10:30] <Lux> got it
[10:30] * michaelkuijn hold breath
[10:31] * Lux says CRASH N BURN
[10:31] * toad_ fixed michaelkuijn's node to take 20 minutes to startup
[10:31] <toad_> :)
[10:31] * michaelkuijn does sudo /etc/init.d/freenet stop
[10:31] <Lux> running
[10:31] <Lux> um how do i know its the new version?
[10:32] <Lux> Node Version 0.5
[10:32] <Lux> Protocol Version STABLE-1.50
[10:32] <Lux> Build Number 5090
[10:32] <Lux> CVS Revision 1.90.2.50.2.118
[10:32] <toad_> the general page should say something like this:
[10:32] <toad_> Current probability of a request succeeding by routing 2.6%
[10:32] <toad_> Current probability of an inbound request causing a transfer outwards 1%
[10:32] * ticoli (~ticoli@179.254.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[10:32] * michaelkuijn does a cat ~michaelkuijn/incoming/dcc/freenet.jar > /usr/lib/freenet/freenet.jar
[10:32] <toad_> that's new
[10:32] <Lux> the CVS revision?
[10:32] <michaelkuijn> Node up again
[10:32] <galt> toad_: is this available from update.sh?
[10:32] <michaelkuijn> Don't think so
[10:33] <toad_> galt: not yet
[10:33] <galt> damme
[10:33] <Lux> well its working...
[10:33] <Lux> Nothing above 100% yet
[10:34] -NickServ- This nickname is owned by someone else
[10:34] -NickServ- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[10:35] <michaelkuijn> 60 connections...
[10:35] * Lux is now known as LU
[10:35] * LU is now known as LUX
[10:35] * lolo-laptop restarts
[10:35] * LUX needs to register my own nick :p
[10:36] -NickServ- This nickname is owned by someone else
[10:36] -NickServ- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[10:37] * LUX is now known as Lux_cosSomeoneAl
[10:37] * michaelkuijn is examining the photographs he made of a small lizard during his holiday
[10:37] <michaelkuijn> KAWAIIIIIIII
[10:37] * Lux_cosSomeoneAl is now known as LinUX
[10:37] <toad_> michaelkuijn: are they on freenet?
[10:37] <michaelkuijn> They're not digital...
[10:38] * LinUX is now known as L__ux
[10:38] <L__ux> thats better
[10:38] <michaelkuijn> I prefer my mirror reflex camera (the one I spilled QyT on yesterday)
[10:38] <michaelkuijn> I think toads and lizards are soooo cuuuuute...
[10:38] -NickServ- This nickname is owned by someone else
[10:38] -NickServ- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[10:38] <L__ux> Using the Linspire way of names... "L-dash-ux" :-p
[10:39] <michaelkuijn> That's just lindash
[10:39] <L__ux> yea lol
[10:39] <michaelkuijn> Lin--
[10:39] <L__ux> But my name is lux
[10:39] <lolo-laptop> hehe Lin++
[10:39] <L__ux> and someone has that already grr
[10:39] <michaelkuijn> Mmm
[10:40] <michaelkuijn> Why has toad a trailing underscore?
[10:40] <L__ux> cos someone probably already has toad
[10:40] <michaelkuijn> Nope
[10:40] * lolo-laptop is now known as toad
[10:41] <michaelkuijn> Hahaha
[10:41] <toad> MUAHAHAHAA
[10:41] <toad> Now I am the master
[10:41] <verl> toad: send me all your secret jars!!
[10:41] * toad is now known as lolo-laptop
[10:41] <L__ux> hehe
[10:42] <toad_> "toad" is registered
[10:42] <toad_> "toad_" is registered by me
[10:42] <toad_> it's just that toad isn't on much
[10:42] <toad_> but it IS registered
[10:42] <toad_> by someone else
[10:43] * L__ux is now known as iipi2p
[10:43] <iipi2p> <Lux>: hehe
[10:43] <michaelkuijn> Suuuure
[10:43] * iipi2p is now known as L__ux
[10:43] <michaelkuijn> toad_, FUQID sounds happy... thanks
[10:44] <L__ux> so how does /me register a nick?
[10:44] <lolo-laptop> L__ux: /msg nickserv register password
[10:45] * michaelkuijn is now known as theLostFloppy
[10:45] * L__ux is now known as |ux
[10:45] <|ux> yay
[10:45] <theLostFloppy> Oops. I am a dirty mind. I typed /msg knickers register ...
[10:46] <|ux> what loser would register Lux.. lol
[10:46] <|ux> before me!
[10:46] <theLostFloppy> How many ways can we spell Lux in comparison to Viagra? (http://cockeyed.com/lessons/viagra/viagra.html)
[10:47] <theLostFloppy> "There are 600,426,974,379,824,381,952 ways to spell Viagra"
[10:47] <|ux> btw does Gentoo updates have the PiNGu fix yet?
[10:47] <theLostFloppy> |ux, a gentoo guy?
[10:47] <|ux> yea?
[10:47] <toad_> i thought you could rebuild gentoo packages from the mainline tgz's?
[10:47] <lolo-laptop> |ux: it has the libpng, it has mozilla-firefox but I don't see mozilla...
[10:47] * lolo-laptop a Gentoo dev (in title, but rarely in action any more)
[10:48] * |ux doesnt use mozilla.. i use firefox tho
[10:48] <|ux> #gentoo is good fun
[10:48] <|ux> when u got time
[10:48] <theLostFloppy> Oh yes
[10:48] <lolo-laptop> toad_: yeah,b ut people have to create ebuilds for new versions
[10:48] <theLostFloppy> Portage eats tgz, rpm etc
[10:48] <toad_> lolo-laptop: hmmm
[10:48] * lolo-laptop has 3 machines all compiling updates ATM
[10:48] <lolo-laptop> WHEE
[10:49] <toad_> so what's the advantage? apart from the half a dozen packages that really benefit from optimizations?
[10:49] <toad_> lolo-laptop: does it allow parallel make?
[10:49] <theLostFloppy> Mmm. My comp is groaning
[10:49] <hirvox> btw, what's the maximum splitfile segment size?
[10:49] <lolo-laptop> toad_: customization... configure optionst hat turn on features and off features ... Gentoo has USE flags that trigger them automagically so that on a server, nothing is compiled with X support, etc.
[10:49] <toad_> (e.g. GMP - which should include all the diff cores and pick one at installation)
[10:50] <toad_> lolo-laptop: ahhh
[10:50] <lolo-laptop> toad_: it supports parallel make, distcc and ccache
[10:50] <theLostFloppy> Woohooo 11/106 segments of Linkin Park's Reanimation
[10:50] * |ux forgets if toad and lolo swapped back or not
[10:50] <toad_> theLostFloppy: /me doesn't ask, but if that's illegal warez, please bear in mind that I am unable to provide support to people who openly admit to copyright infringement over freenet, for legal reasons :)
[10:50] <lolo-laptop> lol
[10:51] * |ux asks just who is lolo
[10:51] * ChanServ sets mode +o toad_
[10:51] <|ux> ahh
[10:51] <|ux> sorted
[10:51] <lolo-laptop> not it
[10:51] <theLostFloppy> Aaah no
[10:51] <|ux> /whois was all i needed
[10:51] * toad_ just identified to avoid confusion
[10:51] * theLostFloppy dodges giant pendulum
[10:52] <toad_> lolo-laptop: how useful is that in practice?
[10:52] <lolo-laptop> toad_: how useful is which?
[10:52] <|ux> DistCC?
[10:52] <|ux> Its VERY useful
[10:52] <verl> okay 5090 report: currently taking *lots* of memory and lots of cpu
[10:52] <toad_> customizing compile options
[10:52] <verl> logfile 400mb
[10:52] <|ux> -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-point -march=athlon-xp -O3
[10:52] <verl> help :)
[10:52] * toad_ has been using debian sid for several years, but it's compromize between up to date and stable isn't necessarily the best
[10:53] <toad_> |ux: yeah yeah
[10:53] <theLostFloppy> Mmmm. Lotsa memory indeed. CPU is all right at my place
[10:53] <theLostFloppy> toad_, I know the feeling
[10:53] <lolo-laptop> toad_: serves me well... a lot of packages would be far larger than needed if compiled with X stuff on my server, lets me use smaller binaries and stuff there... *shrug* it isn't for everyone, but I'm a customization freak
[10:53] <toad_> |ux: so all your binaries are 10% faster. But it takes 6 hours to update!
[10:53] * lolo-laptop chuckles
[10:53] <verl> 500mb logfile of this: java.lang.NullPointerException
[10:53] <verl> at freenet.transport.ThrottledSelectorLoop.throttleBeforeSelect(ThrottledSelectorLoop.java:103)
[10:53] <verl> at freenet.transport.WriteSelectorLoop.beforeSelect(WriteSelectorLoop.java:394)
[10:53] <verl> at freenet.transport.AbstractSelectorLoop.loop(AbstractSelectorLoop.java:745)
[10:53] <verl> at freenet.transport.WriteSelectorLoop.run(WriteSelectorLoop.java:794)
[10:53] <verl> at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[10:53] <theLostFloppy> Gentoo was *love* at first sight
[10:53] <|ux> toad_: gives my box summat to do while im out
[10:53] <lolo-laptop> I use -fdisable-code and -fignore-instructions when I compile... gives me a 99.9% speed increase!!!!!!
[10:54] <toad_> when PCs are a lot faster at compiling stuff... I'
[10:54] <|ux> :D:D
[10:54] <toad_> I suspect all geeks will use that
[10:54] <toad_> but right now, that's not enough
[10:54] <toad_> lol lolo-laptop
[10:54] <|ux> Is GCSE working properly now lolo?
[10:54] <toad_> <verl> 500mb logfile of this: java.lang.NullPointerException
[10:54] <toad_> <verl> at freenet.transport.ThrottledSelectorLoop.throttleBeforeSelect(ThrottledSelectorLoop.java:103)
[10:54] <toad_> <verl> at freenet.transport.WriteSelectorLoop.beforeSelect(WriteSelectorLoop.java:394)
[10:54] <toad_> <verl> at freenet.transport.AbstractSelectorLoop.loop(AbstractSelectorLoop.java:745)
[10:54] <toad_> <verl> at freenet.transport.WriteSelectorLoop.run(WriteSelectorLoop.java:794)
[10:54] <toad_> <verl> at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[10:54] <toad_> yikes
[10:54] <toad_> verl: 5090?
[10:54] <|ux> lolo: and do u need to add in -msse -mmmx explicity?
[10:54] <theLostFloppy> I don't really need the compiling to be faster. The screenfuls of messages flying by impresses my parents ;-)
[10:55] <toad_> got any OutOfMemoryExceptions beforehand?
[10:55] <toad_> LOL theLostFloppy
[10:55] * toad_ thinks that's somewhere close to the motive behind most Gentoo users !
[10:55] <theLostFloppy> Hehe
[10:55] <verl> toad: hm, i can't open the logfile, it will take forever
[10:55] <|ux> verl: use less
[10:55] <lolo-laptop> |ux: I'm not familiar with gcse ... is that ccache + distcc combined thing?
[10:55] <|ux> verl: or head or tail
[10:55] <lolo-laptop> I set -msse and -mmmx explicitly, not sure how necessary it is
[10:55] <|ux> lolo: its a gcc CFLAG... Global Common Subexpression summat
[10:56] <verl> please, i'm on windows :)
[10:56] <toad_> verl: bandwidth limiting turned off?
[10:56] * |ux feels sorry for verl
[10:56] <theLostFloppy> Some people think its fun when parents are depending on me at all things computers. IT'S NOT
[10:56] <lolo-laptop> |ux: ahh... let me see what i'm using...
[10:56] <|ux> lolo: i once had a CFLAGS that was about 700 characters in length
[10:56] <verl> toad: hmm, strange, i had it on, but now it appears to be off
[10:57] <theLostFloppy> "Miiiike, why is my Outlook Express window suddenly smaller?"
[10:57] <|ux> lolo: then i decided omit-frame-point unroll-loops and O3 was enough
[10:57] * |ux has read through the ENTIRE GCC man page.... lol and the LD one
[10:57] <toad_> theLostFloppy: esp when they insist on continuing to run windoze :<
[10:57] <lolo-laptop> CFLAGS="-march=athlon-tbird -O3 -fgcse -fgcse-lm -fgcse-sm -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe"
[10:57] <theLostFloppy> I'll get them Gentoo this week - I've made up my mind
[10:57] <|ux> lolo: u use it then
[10:58] <lolo-laptop> yep
[10:58] <toad_> uhh, isn't -fgcse implied by -O3 anyway?
[10:58] <lolo-laptop> I don't have problems with it, and I've been using it since early in the GCC3 days (cuz I haven't touched my cflags in forever)
[10:58] <theLostFloppy> The trouble is, when they have problems like this they won't let me just VNC in - I *have* to go up the stairs to them.
[10:58] <lolo-laptop> toad_: the -fgcse is, but not the -fgcse-lm and -sm
[10:58] <|ux> lolo: but O2 turns that on by default anyway
[10:59] <|ux> my previous CFLAGS even had the align functions / loops on 8byte boundaries cos apparently athlon processors work best with that lol
[10:59] <toad_> what's -fgcse-lm and -sm?
[10:59] <theLostFloppy> toad_, I kinda understand them though, after 6 months they have just adjusted a bit to XP
[10:59] <|ux> toad_: man gcc
[10:59] <|ux> FOUND IT
[11:00] <|ux> -fssa << the hard core FLAG
[11:00] <theLostFloppy> ???
[11:00] <|ux> Users should not specify this option, since it is not yet ready for
[11:00] <|ux> production use.
[11:00] <|ux> Perform optimizations in static single assignment form. Each func-
[11:00] <|ux> tion's flow graph is translated into SSA form, optimizations are
[11:00] <|ux> performed, and the flow graph is translated back from SSA form.
[11:00] <|ux> but hell does it optimise when the app doesnt segfault :p
[11:01] <toad_> |ux: umm, i thought that was obsoleted by GIMPLE etc?
[11:01] <|ux> i wish someone would try installing gentoo with -fssa -fssa-ccp -fssa-dce in their CFLAGS
[11:01] <|ux> toad_: not to my knowledge
[11:01] <|ux> toad_: maybe though
[11:01] <|ux> toad_: then again i aint heard of gimple
[11:01] <toad_> |ux: LOL. http://gcc.gnu.org/
[11:02] <toad_> you're an optogeek and you haven't heard of GIMPLE? ;)
[11:02] * toad_ isn't an optogeek and has, hahahaha
[11:02] <toad_> :)
[11:02] * |ux is a few months behind...
[11:02] <toad_> |ux: i think it's still only in mainline
[11:03] <toad_> not sure, maybe it is in 3.4
[11:03] <toad_> anyway
[11:03] <toad_> bbiab
[11:04] <toad_> ahh
[11:04] <toad_> it's tree-ssa
[11:04] <toad_> merged to mainline after 3.4 came out
[11:04] <toad_> so not in 3.5
[11:04] <toad_> err
[11:04] <toad_> 3.4
[11:04] * pupok (~janie@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[11:04] <|ux> toad_: no refernce to ssa being replaced
[11:05] <|ux> toad_: im using 3.3
[11:05] <toad_> |ux: http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/tree-ssa/
[11:06] <|ux> toad_: merged into main
[11:06] <toad_> one of the great things about this is that it moves gcc towards all-languages-have-the-same-optimization-code
[11:06] <toad_> |ux: right. mainline != 3.4 != 3.3
[11:07] <toad_> will be in 3.5 though hopefully
[11:07] <jokern> Hmmmmm, IPv4: 192.168.0.30 where does it get that address from?
[11:07] <toad_> jokern: some NAT craziness on some node...
[11:07] <|ux> toad_: yea
[11:07] <|ux> jokern: same here for 1 address
[11:07] <toad_> forwarding of incoming connections
[11:07] <toad_> bbiab, going to get food etc
[11:07] <toad_> when i get back will do some work, i promise :)
[11:08] <jokern> It is on my env. page? Detected ip ad. My "outside" address and that IPv4: 192.168.0.30.
[11:09] <theLostFloppy> Mmm. FUQID is stuck at 11/106 segments. How long should inserting 70 MB take?
[11:09] <|ux> toad_: Load due to thread limit = 165.8%
[11:10] <theLostFloppy> My overall load is 69 %
[11:10] <|ux> Current estimated load for rate limiting 165.8% [Rejecting incoming connections and requests!]
[11:10] <theLostFloppy> Not at my place
[11:11] <|ux> tLF: open connections?
[11:12] <|ux> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 134 (105/29/200)
[11:12] <|ux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 110 (7/103)
[11:12] <|ux> Data waiting to be transferred 7,641 Bytes
[11:12] <|ux> Total amount of data transferred 144 MiB
[11:33] <|ux> so what is "thread limit"?
[11:33] <|ux> because that is the one that is the problem with me
[11:38] <toad_> |ux: what are all the threads being used for?
[11:38] <toad_> on the Environment page?
[11:38] <|ux> im running frost
[11:38] <toad_> ah
[11:38] <toad_> duhh :)
[11:38] <|ux> i set it up at 12 downloads at a time.. but ive taken it back to 3 now :P
[11:39] <|ux> just to see what effect it had
[11:39] <toad_> it produced a LOT of receiving threads :)
[11:39] <toad_> this is expected
[11:39] * toad_ will need to find out if there is some FCP leak triggered by frost - probably due to a timeout
[11:39] <toad_> or if it really does do that many requests at once
[11:39] <|ux> why would i get this though:
[11:39] <|ux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 100 (1/99)
[11:40] <toad_> |ux: probably due to timeouts...
[11:40] <|ux> Current estimated load for rate limiting 158.3%
[11:40] <|ux> which is the thread thing
[11:40] <|ux> if i shut down frost
[11:40] <|ux> should that even out?
[11:40] * hobx_ (~chatzilla@ankh.math.chalmers.se) has joined #freenet
[11:40] <toad_> eventually, yes
[11:40] <|ux> lets try it
[11:40] <toad_> i will look into this - AFTER 5089 is out
[11:40] <|ux> Ok
[11:41] <toad_> it's possible that it's a dumb bug in fred
[11:41] <|ux> ok
[11:41] <toad_> it's likely that fred is reacting too slowly for frost and frost is timing out and retrying
[11:41] <|ux> ah forget shuting it down then
[11:41] <toad_> it's possible that e.g. coalescing requests, or fixing some bug causing the timeouts, will fix it
[11:41] * TLF (francisco@169.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[11:41] <toad_> bbiab
[11:44] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs6669187-74.houston.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[11:44] * |ux asks Just Who?
[11:48] * robilad (~topic@mpiat2313.ag2.mpi-sb.mpg.de) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[11:51] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:57] * robilad (~topic@mpiat2313.ag2.mpi-sb.mpg.de) has joined #freenet
[12:00] <|ux> i just asked someone
[12:00] <|ux> their reason for not running freenet
[12:00] <|ux> they replied: "If I lived outside the USA, I might consider it, however, the last thing I want is to have my PC seized, even if no charges are filed. It might be seized as evidence if the feds thought Osama was communicating through it."
[12:12] <theLostFloppy> I always keep a DBAN floppy in the drive (not clicked in)
[12:16] <theLostFloppy> I told my dad: "If some people come for my computer, push it in and reboot ;-)"
[12:16] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[12:18] <|ux> BestCrypt :D
[12:18] <|ux> "just push reboot"
[12:18] <|ux> lol
[12:18] <|ux> or take the plug out
[12:18] <|ux> or umount
[12:18] <|ux> hehe
[12:19] <|ux> bah why the hell would they want to wade through gigs of blogs, rants and anti-scientology stuff anyways
[12:20] <Zorix> [12:34pm] [Zorix] interesting.. 5090 must be out but the cvs version page shows no update for it
[12:20] <Zorix> [12:35pm] * Disconnected
[12:20] <Zorix> dumb network
[12:23] * Ash-Foxeus (Hal-9000@abd72.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Connection timed out)
[12:26] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[12:31] <|ux> lol?
[12:31] <|ux> Zorix?
[12:31] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
[12:31] <Zorix> i get dropped often
[12:31] <Zorix> dunno what it is about this network
[12:31] <|ux> What were u saying about 5090?
[12:31] <Zorix> oh i see it on my main page
[12:31] <|ux> There are currently ~5 (I think) nodes running 5090
[12:31] <Zorix> says 5090 is out there
[12:31] <Zorix> ah
[12:32] <|ux> I am one of them
[12:32] <|ux> its not in cvs *i dont think yet*
[12:32] <|ux> Its pre-5090
[12:32] <Zorix> and i was wondering why i didnt see it in the version.java file on cvs
[12:32] <Zorix> makes sense
[12:32] <|ux> basically Toad has compiled it up for us
[12:32] <|ux> and we are using his jar
[12:32] <Zorix> whats the deal with it
[12:32] <Zorix> what is fixed
[12:32] <|ux> RNFs, um quite a few things actually
[12:33] <|ux> RNF being teh main one
[12:33] <|ux> Also Transfers active Receiving does not go out of sync with freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator
[12:33] <Zorix> lost.lostlogicx.com,217.208.51.165,82.32.16.91,wirefire.no-ip.com,209.142.155.49
[12:33] <Zorix> ah
[12:34] * |ux is wirefire
[12:34] <|ux> i guess one of them is toad, one is verl and the other is lolo
[12:34] <|ux> o and
[12:34] <|ux> That Floppy Guy
[12:35] <|ux> whatever his name was
[12:35] <|ux> eek
[12:35] <|ux> "theLostFloppy"
[12:40] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) has joined #FreeNet
[12:44] * jokern (~virus@213.184.217.12) Quit ()
[12:46] <jay> Hory: ~Miranda?
[12:48] <jay> Hory: looking for the nick 'jay' ?
[12:48] <toad_> hi ppl
[12:48] * toad_ back
[12:48] <|ux> hey toad_
[12:48] <jay> ribbit
[12:48] <|ux> since i cut down my downloads to 3
[12:48] <|ux> my load balancing has come back into shape
[12:48] <|ux> i think it may have to do with having too many receiving connections
[12:48] <|ux> as to transmittig
[12:49] <|ux> but that is just my lame guess
[12:49] <toad_> <|ux> they replied: "If I lived outside the USA, I might consider it, however, the last thing I want is to have my PC seized, even if no charges are filed. It might be seized as evidence if the feds thought Osama was communicating through it."
[12:49] <toad_> LOL
[12:50] <toad_> <|ux> bah why the hell would they want to wade through gigs of blogs, rants and anti-scientology stuff anyways - most of the anti-$cientology stuff is copyrighted by $cientology, according to $cientology's lawyers. that makes you a major copyright infringer. :)
[12:50] <toad_> |ux: how many receiving?
[12:50] <toad_> after you shut frost down?
[12:51] <toad_> okay, people
[12:51] <toad_> last call before I release 5090
[12:51] <toad_> verl: should i release 5090?
[12:51] <toad_> lolo-laptop: should i release 5090?
[12:51] <|ux> i say go for it
[12:51] <|ux> its remendous improvement over 5089
[12:51] <|ux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 97 (40/57)
[12:52] <toad_> okay
[12:52] * toad_ will just update the changelog...
[12:52] <toad_> in fact i'm not sure i've made one yet... doh
[12:52] <|ux> Load due to output bandwidth limiting = 130.1%
[12:52] <|ux> lol
[12:52] <jay> toad_: i imagine that soon we'll 'rebuild' the unstable network after stable is functioning?
[12:53] * toad_ will backmerge to stable...
[12:53] <toad_> now
[12:53] <Zorix> backmerge?
[12:53] <toad_> some of the stuff in 5090 isn't in unstable yet
[12:54] <|ux> hehe
[12:54] <Zorix> why not put some of the unstable fixes into stable
[12:54] <Zorix> that seems better
[12:54] <Zorix> heh
[12:54] <|ux> bboth need 2 stay in sync
[12:54] <jay> it's better to merge from a stable branch over to unstable
[12:54] <jay> in cvs terms anyway
[12:55] <Zorix> heh
[12:55] <theLostFloppy> 'ninety seems aight
[12:56] <theLostFloppy> *maybe* a bit heavier on the memory, but this can be a coincedence
[12:56] <theLostFloppy> How long should it take to insert 70 mb?
[12:56] <toad_> it depends :)
[12:57] <theLostFloppy> It's 2+ hours and FUQID had done 5 % and gives timed out messages
[12:57] <toad_> okay, 60183...
[12:57] <theLostFloppy> ?
[12:57] <Zorix> what exactly are you getting on fuqid
[12:58] <Zorix> seems like the kiddie porn people use that
[12:58] <toad_> heh
[12:58] <theLostFloppy> Naw
[12:58] <theLostFloppy> Ok.
[12:59] <theLostFloppy> I am inserting a 70 MB RAR file, containing music
[12:59] <Zorix> lol
[12:59] <Zorix> pirate :P
[12:59] <theLostFloppy> 106 segments, and it's only at number 15
[12:59] <theLostFloppy> Hey, what if I publish music of my own band?
[12:59] <Zorix> doubtful heh
[12:59] <jay> thelema|away: you could sue us then
[12:59] <theLostFloppy> It's giving Insert timed out errors
[13:00] <jay> erm -> theLostFloppy
[13:00] <theLostFloppy> Insert thread timed out
[13:00] <Zorix> i used fuqid like maybe 3 times when it was a bitch to download a large file
[13:00] <jay> ive got some live stuff of my old reggae band
[13:01] <toad_> what's reggae?
[13:01] <Zorix> lol
[13:01] <toad_> okay, 60183 is out
[13:01] <jay> toad_: heh
[13:01] <Zorix> never heard of reggae?
[13:01] <jay> Bob Marley is reggae
[13:01] <Zorix> yea
[13:01] <jay> toad_: that's funny
[13:02] <jay> UK reggae is one of my fave styles
[13:02] <jay> Aswad
[13:02] <jay> Steel Pulse too i think
[13:02] <theLostFloppy> Anyway...
[13:04] <jay> toad_: UB40 ?
[13:05] * toad_ changes topic to 'Upgrade to 5089 (mandatory reset) | Unstable: Upgrade to 60183 | Logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ | #freenet-politics and #freenet-chat are available for offtopic discussions'
[13:06] <toad_> hmmm
[13:06] <toad_> another showstopper
[13:06] <toad_> Subject: [freenet-dev] Error in Log of unstable build 60182
[13:06] <jay> toad_: i found a small bug in fcpput with respect to Timeouts on Pending, etc.
[13:07] <jay> i think that's where the repeated "6 seconds" timeout came from
[13:07] <jay> if u recall
[13:07] <jay> if not ignore it
[13:07] <toad_> fortunately it's a 1 line fix
[13:07] <toad_> jay: cool!
[13:07] <jay> toad_: gee i didn't think i made coding errors ;)
[13:08] <toad_> lol
[13:08] <toad_> the man who has made no mistakes has made nothing! especially in programming!
[13:08] <theLostFloppy> When there are new jars can you mail them to lostfloppy@hccnet.nl ? ;-)
[13:08] <jay> heh
[13:08] <toad_> theLostFloppy: it probably didn't affect you
[13:08] <toad_> Running unstable build 60182 I'm getting quite some of these:
[13:09] <toad_> 06.08.2004 18:19:08
[13:09] <toad_> (freenet.node.rt.OptimizingSlidingBucketsKeyspaceEstimator, YThread-322,
[13:09] <toad_> ERROR): Type wrong on reporting: transfer rate should be time
[13:09] <toad_> java.lang.Exception: debug
[13:09] <toad_> at
[13:09] <toad_> freenet.node.rt.SlidingBucketsKeyspaceEstimator.checkType(SlidingBucketsKeyspace
[13:09] <toad_> +Estimator.java:408)
[13:09] <toad_> at
[13:09] <toad_> reported by someone
[13:09] <toad_> it's a pretty trivial bug
[13:09] <jay> i get those too
[13:09] <toad_> jay: why didn't you say so?!
[13:09] <jay> not sure
[13:09] <jay> i've been distracted last couple of weeks
[13:10] <|ux> ok... toad_
[13:10] <|ux> now my connections has stabalised
[13:10] <jay> toad_: it's hard to say whether it's Fred or fcptools sometimes
[13:10] <|ux> im going to get frost to download about 40 things at the one time
[13:10] <|ux> ill try to report back :p
[13:10] * pupok (~janie@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[13:12] <|ux> Current estimated load for rate limiting 601.9% :D
[13:12] <|ux> i think *im* to blame 4 that
[13:13] <|ux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 166 (47/119)
[13:14] <toad_> http://www.photoseen.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=albuo49&page=2 - from a crazy artist i met via freenet-chat
[13:18] <toad_> Attorneys general from 45 states sent letters Thursday to seven companies that
[13:18] <toad_> +offer online file-sharing software, hinting at possible legal consequences if
[13:18] <toad_> +the networks don't better inform computer users about potential copyright
[13:18] <toad_> +violations from sharing files.
[13:18] <toad_> hmmm
[13:19] <|ux> But freenet'ters dont share *files*
[13:19] <toad_> http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/08/06/file.sharing.ap/index.html
[13:19] <toad_> odd
[13:19] <|ux> the copyright has long since been encrypted
[13:20] <|ux> lol
[13:20] <theLostFloppy> I'm going to the shooting club now, but before I go I want to express my feelings - I love you guys.
[13:20] <toad_> cool
[13:20] <toad_> thanks
[13:21] * toad_ will hold you to that when the revolution comes! ;)
[13:22] <|ux> lol damn: Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 156 (33/123)
[13:22] <jay> think of me while loading your gun then
[13:22] <toad_> |ux: not good...
[13:22] <|ux> toad_: 40 downloads in Frost
[13:23] <toad_> jay: new jar, fixes the bug you just reported :)
[13:23] <jay> toad_: that was quick
[13:24] <jay> ah dcc.. the original napster
[13:24] <toad_> :)
[13:24] <|ux> gotta dash
[13:24] <|ux> be back tonight guys
[13:24] <toad_> only for the intelligentsia
[13:24] <|ux> byeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[13:24] * |ux (~Lux@82-37-17-24.cable.ubr03.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ("Leaving")
[13:24] <toad_> people smart enough to know about IRC
[13:25] <jay> or geeky enough
[13:25] <jay> i used to actually know the /DCC commands
[13:25] <jay> now i press buttons
[13:25] <jay> heh
[13:26] <jay> i should have mentioned im running unstable (?)
[13:27] <toad_> jay: ah oops
[13:27] <jay> heh
[13:29] <jay> i could shoot a gun right now
[13:29] <jay> not at anything really, just boom in the sky
[13:29] <jay> a manual firecracker
[13:31] <jay> ah 60183
[13:34] <jay> Aug 6, 2004 1:52:09 PM (freenet.support.io.NIOInputStream, YThread-10, NORMAL): waited more than 120000ms in NIOIS.read() tcp/connection: 36387>69.10.147.136:23237,freenet.transport.tcpConnection@16af7bf:freenet.support.io.NIOInputStream@1af4241- closing
[13:34] <jay> java.lang.Exception: debug
[13:34] <jay> toad_: you weren't getting that earlier error i was seeing ?
[13:35] <jay> the SlidingBucketsKeyspaceEstimator onme
[13:35] <toad_> jay: i didn't look very carefully
[13:35] <jay> ok just curious
[13:35] <lolo-laptop> toad_: is 60184 the same as the jar you already sent me or should I update?
[13:35] <jay> you're aware of the NIO issues i know
[13:37] <toad_> lolo-laptop: did I send you an unstable jar? in which case, yes
[13:37] <toad_> jay: I don't think that's an NIO issue
[13:37] <toad_> but yes, I've seen it often enough
[13:38] <jay> righto
[13:40] <jay> here's the first CD i did: http://www.upstarter.com/reviews/showreview.php?artist=The_Rudy_Crew&album=Invasion
[13:44] * TLF (francisco@169.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[13:47] * jokern (~virus@213.184.217.12) has joined #freenet
[13:47] * TLF (francisco@138.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[13:53] * Knio (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[14:00] <jokern> State does not receive: freenet.message.InsertRequest@1884f99 InsertRequest
[14:01] <jokern> Cache failed signalled after exception after 0 of 1049900 bytes: java.io.IOException: read failed:
[14:01] <jokern> toad_: ??
[14:01] <toad_> jokern: ouch
[14:01] <toad_> jokern: version?
[14:01] <jokern> That is you special jar
[14:01] <toad_> ugh
[14:01] <toad_> hmmm
[14:02] <jokern> Dunno if it matters , but this is a clean new node. Nothing in store etc
[14:02] * toad_ committing 5090...
[14:03] <jokern> Approx 1 hour 15 minutes uptime,
[14:04] <jokern> Amazingly how fast it got connections and transfers.
[14:10] * toad_ will look after 5090 out
[14:15] * TLF (francisco@138.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[14:16] * piranha (piranha@3ffe:b80:1ca1:0:0:0:deca:fbad) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[14:25] <verl> snaps are regenerating?
[14:25] <toad_> yup
[14:31] <toad_> snapshots updatred
[14:31] <toad_> 5090 is out
[14:32] * toad_ changes topic to 'Upgrade to 5090 (5089: mandatory reset, 5090: RNF bug fixed!) | Unstable: Upgrade to 60184 | Logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ | #freenet-politics and #freenet-chat are available for offtopic discussions'
[14:37] * Tailchaser (~tailchase@pool-68-162-16-41.nwrk.east.verizon.net) has joined #freenet
[14:39] <ejhuff> toad_: perhaps make a jar which has Version=5090 but lastgoodbuild=5084. Have at least four people run it for a while, to ensure that the Web Interface page lists the new build number on the old builds.
[14:39] <toad_> i suppose so
[14:39] <toad_> it won't work of course
[14:40] <ejhuff> You need a routing table pre 5089
[14:40] * toad_ thinks updating the web site is a more urgent priority
[14:40] <verl> and were there going to be a update on the website?
[14:40] <verl> :)
[14:41] <ejhuff> I saved my routing table prior to upgrading to 5089.
[14:42] * ejhuff will see if make can still build stable. (/me doesn't have ant)
[14:48] <verl> what is an acceptable startup time a node can have before it ought to start obeying the limits you set?
[14:48] <verl> how much will people tolarate?
[14:49] * TLF (francisco@138.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[14:49] <verl> it used to be that you had to wait for fred to "kick in", now it's running from the start and having a bit a hard time slowing down i think
[14:51] * Terminato (~anon@69.47.180.0) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:56] * Terminato (~anon@69.47.180.0) has joined #freenet
[14:56] <toad_> ejhuff: you only need to build 5084
[14:56] <toad_> and then set version to 5089
[15:02] <jokern> 5090 is a monster.. Last hour : 8/6/04 9:00:00 PM CEST 40539 35849 0.8843089370729421
[15:05] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs6669187-74.houston.rr.com) Quit ()
[15:11] <toad_> woah
[15:15] <toad_> hmmm
[15:15] <toad_> only got 400 or so reqs last hour here
[15:16] <mikeDOTd> i've only got 100 open connections, after 2 days uptime
[15:17] <mikeDOTd> i'm starting to think either stable is a lot smaller than I thought, or the network is really forked (5084|5098)
[15:17] <mikeDOTd> s/98/89
[15:18] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs6669187-74.houston.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[15:18] <toad_> mikeDOTd: it might be small because most users don't read the lists
[15:19] <toad_> i've just announced 5090 on the web page
[15:19] <toad_> along with the reset
[15:19] <toad_> which btw you should upgrade to
[15:23] * Knio_ (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[15:24] <mikeDOTd> right-o
[15:24] <mikeDOTd> haven't read my email yet
[15:27] * Knio (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
[15:33] <mikeDOTd> has 5090 been announced on the devl mailing list?
[15:35] <toad_> hmmm
[15:35] <toad_> anyone know a simple utility to start a program if it's not already running that ships with debian?
[15:36] <toad_> duhh, start-stop-daemon :)
[15:42] <jay> <verl> it used to be that you had to wait for fred to "kick in", now it's running from the start and having a bit a hard time slowing down i think
[15:42] <jay> great so freenet is too fast now eh?
[15:42] <jay> i can live with that
[15:48] <jokern> heh, got fuqid 1.4 in 10minutes. This is scary,,,,,,
[15:51] <verl> jay: yeah it's great except that it takes 1 hour for it to calm down, some people will turn off their nodes when it's consuming all their bandwith and cpu
[15:52] <toad_> can anyone fetch CHK@~4qbqdIDzYAEpga7Ww8ReoqQsgULAwI,VprXRYHlhLc3F5CUAgWpYA from unstable?
[15:53] <lolo-laptop> yeah, the extended time for bwlimiting to work right is irritating...
[15:54] <toad_> lolo-laptop: possibly due to the lengthened averages?
[15:54] <toad_> solution (apart from changing the average lengths back) would be to save all the averages to disk
[15:54] <toad_> that would hopefully more or less eliminate the startup spike
[15:55] <lolo-laptop> toad_: I was going to suggest that a while ago... too bad I didn't...
[15:55] <toad_> lolo-laptop: it was suggested
[15:56] <toad_> probably as a result of me talking to kenman
[15:56] * toad_ will implement it
[15:56] <toad_> maybe not immediately
[15:56] <lolo-laptop> toad_: :thumbsup:
[16:00] <toad_> ?
[16:00] <toad_> actually, /me thinks that's the logical next step
[16:02] <toad_> the only difficulty is that probably I wouldn't include the per node rate limiting vars
[16:02] <toad_> which could be a problem because if they're not there the incoming reqs will be wrong...
[16:26] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) Quit ("Client exiting")
[16:38] * greycat (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) Quit ("Lick Bush in '04")
[16:38] <theLostFloppy> Honey, I'm home!
[16:43] <toad_> bbiab
[16:44] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[16:52] * Hamled|Erp (~hamled@pool-68-163-62-23.phil.east.verizon.net) has left #freenet
[17:04] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
[17:06] * TLF (francisco@138.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[17:11] * TLF (francisco@119.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[17:11] <Knio_> why does freenet allocate all the memory it can?
[17:19] <theLostFloppy> Knio_, explain?
[17:23] <Knio_> the JVM allocates 128mb or ram, and only about 20 are being used by freenet
[17:23] <Knio_> of*
[17:23] * hobx (~hobx@h196n1fls21o1077.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[17:23] <theLostFloppy> 20 mb? Can't be that little
[17:24] <Knio_> not sure
[17:24] <Knio_> it wasn't 128 though
[17:25] * hobx (~hobx@h196n1fls21o1077.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #freenet
[17:25] * ChanServ sets mode +o hobx
[17:25] <theLostFloppy> Dunno
[17:25] <theLostFloppy> What you're gonna do hobx?
[17:27] <hobx> about what?
[17:28] * |ux (~|ux@82-37-17-24.cable.ubr03.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[17:28] <jay> Knio_: depends on how you're checking freenet's memory usage
[17:28] <jay> hobx: about |ux
[17:28] <Knio_> jay: in the environment info page
[17:28] <jay> heh
[17:28] <|ux> so, how many versions of toad_'s jar have i missed
[17:29] <|ux> jay: about me?
[17:29] <hobx> somebody need banning?
[17:29] <jay> hobx: heh i dunno
[17:29] <jay> lux: kidding
[17:29] <|ux> jay: about me??
[17:29] * |ux is confused
[17:30] <jay> |ux: im playing yoh
[17:30] <|ux> jay: oh ok
[17:30] <|ux> jay: i play like a bad record... ie, you dont do it.
[17:30] <|ux> jay: i scratch too :p
[17:30] <jay> Knio_: im using 25M out of 40M allocated
[17:30] <jay> |ux: eheh
[17:31] <|ux> Maximum size 2 GiB
[17:31] <|ux> Used space 2,090,644 KiB
[17:31] <|ux> Free space 6,508 KiB
[17:32] <jay> |ux: how much ram u have?
[17:33] <|ux> Maximum memory the JVM will allocate 259,264 KiB
[17:33] <|ux> Memory currently allocated by the JVM 216,952 KiB
[17:33] <|ux> Memory in use 217,793,880 Bytes
[17:33] <|ux> Estimated memory used by logger None
[17:33] <|ux> Unused allocated memory 4,362,992 Bytes
[17:33] <|ux> i have 512 though
[17:34] <jay> u using -Xmx256m ?
[17:34] <jay> im bad at running a freenet node and good at writing FCP clients
[17:34] <jay> i gave java 256M
[17:35] * Terminato (~anon@69.47.180.0) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[17:35] <|ux> i dunno i just run it from gentoo :p
[17:35] * |ux is just bad :P
[17:36] <jay> is start-freenet.sh in your path ?
[17:37] <jay> |ux: btw.. do you create a frost keypair, or frost does it automatically to sign messages?
[17:38] <theLostFloppy> automagically
[17:38] <|ux> jay: (1) - it is in /usr/bin... but i use /etc/init.d/freenet start and that works dandy
[17:38] <|ux> jay: (2) automatically although you can choose an identity to sign a message with
[17:39] <jay> |ux: the freenet script might call start-freenet.sh, but in there you can see how much RAM the VM is given (-Xmx)
[17:40] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) has joined #FreeNet
[17:40] <Knio_> gah
[17:40] <Knio_> my node is no longer responding
[17:41] <jay> so what if i install frost elsewhere; it then generates a new keypair ?
[17:41] <|ux> jay: i think so
[17:42] <jay> eesh
[17:43] <|ux> found it
[17:43] <|ux> /etc/conf.d/freenet
[17:43] <|ux> JAVA_ARGS
[17:43] <jay> yup
[17:43] <|ux> jay: what do u suggest i set it to?
[17:43] <jay> toad usually says as much as possible
[17:43] <jay> 256 sounds good if u can do it
[17:43] <|ux> lol
[17:43] <|ux> i already do 256
[17:44] <|ux> i got 512 installed
[17:44] <jay> i've heard that 128 can cause disk thrashing on windows
[17:44] <|ux> should i try 384?
[17:44] <jay> is that the problem?
[17:44] <jay> or is it bandwidth
[17:44] <|ux> there is no problem
[17:44] <|ux> what made u think i had a problem?
[17:45] <jay> not sure exactly i just assumed
[17:45] <jay> problems are common around here ;)
[17:45] <Knio_> I think I was the one with the problem
[17:46] <jay> Knio_: ah yes
[17:46] * Knio_ is now known as Knio
[17:46] <jay> Knio: how much mem did u pass java ?
[17:46] <Knio> none.. I guess 128 is its default
[17:46] <jay> Knio: *nix?
[17:46] <Knio> win xp
[17:47] <jay> Knio: i think you can check flaunch.ini in the freenet program dir
[17:47] <jay> for example: -Xmx128m
[17:47] <Knio> ah
[17:47] <Knio> but, why is freenet allocated the maximun before it needs it?
[17:48] <jay> it doesn't
[17:48] <jay> the VM is told the max it allows the app to user
[17:48] <jay> use
[17:48] <Knio> yeah
[17:48] <jay> it doesn't allocate it all at once though
[17:48] <Knio> looks like it does :/
[17:48] <theLostFloppy> 7:15 and only 88 connections? That sucks...
[17:49] <jay> not to me
[17:49] <jay> Maximum memory the JVM will allocate: 260,160 KiB
[17:49] <jay> Memory currently allocated by the JVM: 41,928 KiB
[17:49] <theLostFloppy> Normally my up is at 100%, now it's always below 50%
[17:49] <Knio> can't get my info right now because my node died or something, not responding to connections
[17:50] <jay> so my node has only actually allocated 41M
[17:50] <Knio> jay: my node always has the max allocated
[17:50] <jay> Knio: restart it
[17:50] <jay> Knio: you know the version of java installed ?
[17:50] <Knio> 1.4.2.something
[17:50] <Knio> 1.4.2_05
[17:51] <jay> that's good
[17:51] <jay> check the log too
[17:51] <Knio> my log is full of exceptions
[17:52] <theLostFloppy> Mine too
[17:52] <jay> how often ?
[17:52] <jay> i get an exception every 5 minutes or so
[17:52] <Knio> holy shit.. my freenet.log is 1.4GB
[17:52] <|ux> yea u get timeouts mostly
[17:52] <jay> at freenet.TrailerReaderInputStream.read(TrailerReaderInputStream.java:84)
[17:53] <|ux> jay u running 5089 vanilla?
[17:53] <jay> Knio: whoa.. delete it/move it out of the way then restart
[17:53] <jay> |ux: nah the latest unstable.. but we're on the same network
[17:53] <jay> im seeing some new things in the log
[17:54] <Knio> 1.4GB.. i've been running the node for maybe 18hours
[17:54] * greycat (rfc1413@wooledge.org) has joined #freenet
[17:54] <jay> Knio: did u change the logleve?
[17:54] <Knio> hah, 2.5 now
[17:54] <|ux> jay: cos i know toad_ aint "forward ported" some changes he has made to 5090 stable to unstable yet
[17:54] <Knio> nope
[17:54] <jay> |ux: ah
[17:54] <jay> Knio: is it the same exception ?
[17:55] <Knio> 1 sec
[17:55] <theLostFloppy> bash-2.05b$ du -h /var/freenet/freenet.log
[17:55] <theLostFloppy> 1.1M /var/freenet/freenet.log
[17:55] <Knio> need to find a program that will open it
[17:55] <jay> wordpad will
[17:55] <|ux> less
[17:55] <|ux> o wait ur in windows :p
[17:55] <theLostFloppy> UltraEdit!
[17:55] <jay> |ux: heh
[17:56] <|ux> www.cygwin.com
[17:56] <|ux> less :D
[17:56] <iip_i2p> <oOo> Wordpad is Ok
[17:56] <|ux> lol
[17:56] <|ux> its the ONLY way
[17:56] <jay> wordpad is suffucient
[17:56] <jay> err spelling
[17:56] <Knio> wordpad just crashed :P
[17:56] <jay> ay
[17:56] <jay> what a pos
[17:56] <jay> load it up in Word
[17:56] <|ux> lol
[17:57] <|ux> Word will be paginating for 1 hour
[17:57] <Knio> more can do it
[17:57] <|ux> yup
[17:57] <|ux> or type >/dev/prn :p
[17:57] <jay> Knio: yeah but u want the end of the file
[17:57] <|ux> (DONT )
[17:57] <jay> tail
[17:57] <|ux> tail!=windows
[17:57] <|ux> get cygwin
[17:57] <jay> stop with the cygwin
[17:57] <greycat> get linux :)
[17:57] <jay> he runs windows
[17:57] <|ux> cygwin is good
[17:57] <|ux> www.cygwin.com << for windows
[17:57] <jay> im not suggesting he use cygwin
[17:57] <Knio> I think most of the exceptions are this one: (freenet.crypt.RandomSourcePool, Network reading thread, ERROR): pool[2] = null!
[17:58] <|ux> bash / tail / head / less all on windows
[17:58] <jay> yeah i use it but im a developer
[17:58] <Knio> with different values of pool[n]
[17:59] <jay> never seen that before
[17:59] <|ux> knio: what version u using?
[17:59] <Knio> jusrt got it yesterday from the website
[18:00] <|ux> stable / unstable?
[18:00] <jay> Knio: what does the environment page say for the build #?
[18:00] <Knio> not sure.. just got freenet-webinstall.exe
[18:00] <|ux> Ok
[18:00] <|ux> on the :8888 index page
[18:00] <|ux> go to General Information
[18:00] <|ux> and it should give u a number
[18:01] <|ux> like "5089" or "60184" or something
[18:01] <Knio> lets see if I can get it started..
[18:01] <jay> heh
[18:01] <jay> u renamed the logfile yes ?
[18:01] <Knio> yup
[18:01] <jay> keep it cause i think it will delete a large logfile
[18:02] <Knio> the new logfile is 100mb already and its not respoding to localhost:8888
[18:02] <jay> ok kill the node
[18:02] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[18:03] <jay> Knio: zip up the file and tell me how large it is
[18:03] <jay> well if possible cut it up so that only the repeated error message is in there
[18:03] <Knio> 1mb
[18:04] <Knio> build #5089 from the logfile
[18:05] <jay> the latest in 5090 at this point
[18:05] <jay> perhaps try that
[18:05] <jay> ill show u where to get it
[18:05] <|ux> ahhh
[18:05] <|ux> has that got the updates for
[18:05] <|ux> seednodes
[18:05] <|ux> freenet-ext
[18:05] <|ux> the webinstall.exe i mean
[18:06] <jay> good question
[18:06] <jay> Knio: if u reinstall it will get the latest jar, which should be 5090 at this point if toad uploaded it
[18:07] <jay> Knio: there's an update option on the windows tray app too
[18:07] <jay> try that first
[18:07] <theLostFloppy> When I have frost closed, do I miss messages?
[18:08] <Knio> build #5090, reinstalled
[18:08] <Knio> spewing to logfile still :/
[18:08] <verl> theLostFloppy: no
[18:08] <jay> Knio: eesh
[18:09] <jay> Knio: can u go to the freenet program dir and get the size of freenet_ext.jar ?
[18:09] <theLostFloppy> verl, thx
[18:09] <Knio> 1,599 KB
[18:09] <jay> i mean exact.. is it: 1,637,068 ?
[18:09] <Knio> 1,637,068
[18:09] <Knio> yup
[18:10] <jay> how big is seednodes.ref ?
[18:10] <Knio> 22,776,309
[18:10] <jay> oof
[18:10] <Knio> got that yesterday
[18:10] <jay> hmm
[18:11] <jay> ppl have reported problems with large seednodes.ref files
[18:11] <jay> that's the size of it on fp.org
[18:11] <verl> knio: try these http://w1.192.telia.com/~u19214808/stablenew.ref
[18:13] <jay> anyone know how to get a new board included in the frost boardlist ?
[18:14] <|ux> no but whats the board
[18:14] <jay> fcptools
[18:14] <Knio> hey
[18:14] <Knio> new seednodes, its not dying
[18:15] <jay> Knio: i guess the file is too large for Xp
[18:15] <jay> i haven't heard of non Win ppl having this problem
[18:15] <jay> Knio: now run frost all day and it will work out the node
[18:15] <verl> jay: i think you're right
[18:15] <jay> finding new routes, etc.
[18:15] <Knio> frost?
[18:16] <jay> Knio: anon message board
[18:16] <jay> jtc.sf.net ?
[18:16] <jay> jtcfrost.sf.net
[18:20] <jay> verl: i created the board and announced it to the 'board' list
[18:21] <jay> that's all there is to it apparantly
[18:21] * Knio pokes frost
[18:22] <jay> is it breathing?
[18:22] <Knio> I think so..
[18:22] <jay> it takes time
[18:23] <jay> it'll be collecting meesages all day if u let it
[18:23] <jay> three days old too
[18:23] <Knio> its not cooperating with windows text color :(
[18:23] <jay> u mean windows isn't cooperating ;)
[18:25] <Knio> no.. someone forgot to set the default font color on the theme
[18:25] <jay> i know im just bashing
[18:26] * toad_ back
[18:26] <theLostFloppy> Hi
[18:26] <|ux> wb toad
[18:27] <jay> toad_: hey dude.. knio was having probs starting his node until he used a smaller seednodes.ref.. now it's working
[18:27] <theLostFloppy> Btw. is the jar you DCC'd to me different from the one now served as snapshot?
[18:27] <toad_> <Knio_> gah
[18:27] <toad_> <Knio_> my node is no longer responding
[18:27] <toad_> hmmm
[18:27] <Knio> it spewed 2.5gb of exceptions into the logfile :o
[18:28] <verl> no bandwith limit set?
[18:29] <verl> or it had to be seedref related?
[18:29] <toad_> <|ux> jay: cos i know toad_ aint "forward ported" some changes he has made to 5090 stable to unstable yet - i'm pretty sure i have actually
[18:30] <toad_> <Knio> I think most of the exceptions are this one: (freenet.crypt.RandomSourcePool, Network reading thread, ERROR): pool[2] = null! - aieeeeeeeeeeeee!
[18:30] <jay> im going to work on running a stable node as well
[18:30] <toad_> <Knio> with different values of pool[n]
[18:30] <jay> heh
[18:31] <Knio> toad_: scary?
[18:31] <|ux> toad_: i thought earlier u said u aint
[18:32] <toad_> <Knio> new seednodes, its not dying - i see... OOMs caused by big seednodes files cause all hell to break loose
[18:32] <toad_> Knio: one way to help it would be to edit flaunch.ini and increase the memory size
[18:32] <Knio> its already eating all my ram :/
[18:33] <toad_> theLostFloppy: probably not
[18:33] <theLostFloppy> Thx
[18:33] <theLostFloppy> See ya all'
[18:33] * theLostFloppy (~michaelku@fia41-111.dsl.hccnet.nl) Quit ()
[18:33] <jay> Knio: he's on XP btw
[18:39] <toad_> i suppose i'll have to implement a kludge to reduce the seeding memory usage
[18:39] <KenMan> newstable (5089) "The Long Graphs" -> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jkcorson/FreeNet/5089c.png
[18:39] <KenMan> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jkcorson/FreeNet/5089bw.png
[18:40] <KenMan> for whatever they are worth right now... i suppose newstable is becoming used at a 'normal' level.
[18:40] * KenMan upgrades to 5090...
[18:46] * TLF (francisco@119.Red-81-40-113.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[18:47] * Knio_ (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[18:48] <toad_> KenMan: did you see my changelog for 5090?
[18:48] <toad_> i expect some improvement re rate limiting...
[18:48] * jay plays Velvet Revolver
[18:48] <toad_> otoh it could be catastrophic...
[18:48] * Knio (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:48] <jay> 10 minutes it took to copy my datastore
[18:48] <jay> whee
[18:51] <jay> i should choose a different port for stable than for unstable ya?
[18:52] * piranha (piranha@3ffe:b80:1ca1:0:0:0:deca:fbad) has joined #freenet
[18:53] <toad_> yes
[18:53] * Knio_ is now known as Knio-work
[18:58] <galt> jay rather ironic, for a privacy advocate (freenet user) to play that DRM-infested CD...
[19:00] <jay> valid observation
[19:02] <jay> im also a musician.. are you suggesting i boycott GnR/STP because the music business is unfair to artists (which i am one of) ?
[19:02] <|ux> psycle.pastnotecut.org
[19:02] <jay> galt: and im not a privacy advocate btw
[19:03] <galt> jay no, I'm not suggesting anything, and would privacy USEr be more appropriate?
[19:04] <|ux> Every person to the liberty of 4 walls.
[19:04] <|ux> If thats advocating privacy then i advocate it.
[19:04] <|ux> As long as no-one does harm
[19:04] <jay> galt: im primarily interested in the freedom of information without censorship
[19:04] <jay> and freenet applications
[19:05] <galt> |ux: freedom lies not in doing what >I< want, it lies in letting >YOU< do what you want, no matter how repugnant to me
[19:06] <|ux> |ux: as long as doing what >I< wont does not stop you from doing what >YOU< want, or harm >YOU< or others.
[19:06] <|ux> |ux? wth
[19:06] <|ux> galt:
[19:06] <|ux> :p
[19:06] <galt> yeah, the harm none aspect
[19:15] <KenMan> <toad_> KenMan: did you see my changelog for 5090? - not yet. I anticipate a smile :)
[19:15] <|ux> galt: Freedom from assumption and presumption.
[19:19] <KenMan> 5090,maxRoutingSteps - ugh ! if we were having to iterate over 200 routes for a single routing, that is bad enough already , no ?! but if it reduces RNFs, yippee !!
[19:29] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
[19:31] <toad_> KenMan: they're disconnected
[19:31] <toad_> they still count when they're disconnected
[19:31] <toad_> and the RT is 400
[19:31] <toad_> also how are newbie nodes going to get a chance?
[19:32] <KenMan> ah. now i see the benefit. I thought the default was 100/200 , not 200/400 ...
[19:32] <toad_> if they're never hit
[19:33] <toad_> jay: did you have to install some proprietary DRM shit to play it? If it plays on an ordinary CD player I don't see what's wrong with it
[19:33] <toad_> of course I play proprietary computer games using a proprietary and mildly DRM-capable emulator :)
[19:33] <galt> toad_: I think it autoexecs in winders
[19:33] <toad_> if they want hard DRM, I can tell them where to shove it though
[19:40] <jay> toad_: i ripped it with cdparanoia
[19:42] <toad_> jay: no problem then
[19:44] <jay> i can't stop buying music for this reason
[19:44] <jay> bbl
[19:44] * toad_ understands
[19:45] * toad_ will however stop buying computer games when they can only run on what amounts to a proprietary M$-only games+wordprocessing machine
[19:46] <toad_> well not M$-only, SyndicApprovedOS-only
[19:46] * toad_ loading node with code to save and load the major rate limiting vars...
[19:48] <toad_> hopefully this will go a long way to eliminating the startup spike
[19:48] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[19:51] <toad_> the second time it's run of course :)
[19:58] * Knio-work is now known as Knio
[20:00] * Redb3ard (~oylerj@c-24-125-12-101.va.client2.attbi.com) has joined #freenet
[20:00] <Redb3ard> hi guys
[20:01] <|ux> hi
[20:02] <Redb3ard> lux, you like freenet?
[20:02] <Redb3ard> ive never gotten around to installing it myself
[20:02] <Redb3ard> always meant to try
[20:04] <toad_> hi
[20:04] <toad_> |ux: tell him to try it :)
[20:04] <|ux> Redb3ard: well the time is as good as any to try it....
[20:04] <|ux> toad_: shouldnt he wait till u done ur magic fixes
[20:05] <|ux> toad_: or is that all up now?
[20:05] <toad_> |ux: 5090 is up
[20:05] <toad_> I'm working on more stuff but i usually am
[20:05] <Redb3ard> actually, ive got my own network going, of a sorts
[20:05] <|ux> Redb3ard: its a bit different to a network...
[20:06] * toad_ thinks it's a lot like a network
[20:06] <Redb3ard> lux, would it be rude to give you a url?
[20:06] * Redb3ard prefers IPv4/IPv6 networks
[20:07] <toad_> hehe
[20:07] <mazzanet> :O
[20:07] <toad_> well freenet is an ip4 network, in that it runs over ip4 :)
[20:07] <mazzanet> is seednodes.ref really supposed to be 24mb?
[20:07] <Redb3ard> ipv4 is layer3, freenet is what, layer 5ish?
[20:07] <toad_> mazzanet: is it? i thought it was smaller now?
[20:07] <toad_> Redb3ard: something around that yeah
[20:08] <mazzanet> yup
[20:08] <Redb3ard> ive never truly understood what layer5 is
[20:08] <mazzanet> its definately 24mb
[20:08] <Redb3ard> nor freenet, for that matter
[20:08] * toad_ doesn't think OSI layers are necessarily the best way of looking at things
[20:08] <Redb3ard> maybe thats why i matched them up
[20:08] <Redb3ard> OSI layers are perhaps the worst way to look at things period
[20:08] <toad_> lol
[20:08] <Redb3ard> DOD layers at least make sense
[20:09] <toad_> what's dod layers?
[20:09] <Redb3ard> physical, IP, transport, application i think
[20:09] <toad_> heh
[20:09] <Redb3ard> been a long while since i studied for the CCNA
[20:09] <toad_> well that's pretty straightforward :)
[20:09] * Knio_ (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[20:10] <Redb3ard> so toad, whats your involvement in freenet?
[20:10] <toad_> lead dev
[20:10] * Knio (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[20:10] <toad_> i can say that in all modesty as i'm paid for it
[20:11] <Redb3ard> seriously
[20:11] <Redb3ard> damn
[20:11] <toad_> :)
[20:11] <Redb3ard> a lead developer of a project everyone has heard of
[20:11] <toad_> we get enough donations... just barely
[20:11] <|ux> Redb3ard: what is this URL?
[20:11] <Redb3ard> what are you doing talking to me?
[20:11] <Redb3ard> you're supposed to be an arrogant asshole
[20:11] <Redb3ard> ;)
[20:12] <toad_> hehe
[20:12] <Redb3ard> toad, you're the guy to ask then, assuming you've got time to explain it
[20:12] <Redb3ard> just how does the whole anonymity model work, with freenet?
[20:13] <Redb3ard> i mean, i have a basic understanding of crypto, asymetric and whatnot
[20:13] <Redb3ard> say i want to publish a small file on freenet...
[20:13] <Redb3ard> it gets garbled up by the crypto, and more so, it gets sent to a machine where its difficult to even say where it is?
[20:14] * pouetooo (~chatzilla@ca-valdeurope-2-133.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #freenet
[20:14] * pouetooo (~chatzilla@ca-valdeurope-2-133.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
[20:14] <toad_> okay
[20:14] <|ux> which reminds me anyone up on SixFour?
[20:14] <toad_> you insert a file
[20:15] <toad_> publish a file
[20:15] <toad_> simplest case: it's a CHK
[20:15] <toad_> it gets encrypted, you get CHK@<routing key>,<decryption key>. You can fetch it at that URL, and so can your friends.
[20:15] <toad_> but the node only knows the first part
[20:15] <toad_> so it doesn't know what it is
[20:15] <toad_> so that's the datastore plausible deniability
[20:16] <toad_> you have anon... firstly, it gets inserted to a longish chain of nodes, maybe 20
[20:16] <toad_> not all of them cache it
[20:16] <toad_> around 5 should though
[20:16] <toad_> towards the end of the chain
[20:16] <toad_> a long way away from you
[20:17] <toad_> when somebody requests it, the request goes out, gets routed according to the routing heuristic, and eventually reaches some node with it cached
[20:17] <toad_> it then returns it through the request chain
[20:17] <mazzanet> blah
[20:17] * mazzanet gets out the nsis manual again
[20:17] <Redb3ard> ok, i follow it so far
[20:17] <toad_> nodes along the way don't know that you were the requestor, because you might be forwarding the request for another node
[20:18] <|ux> OT: perhaps for research
[20:18] <|ux> http://www.hacktivismo.com/projects/index.php
[20:18] <|ux> The Six/Four System is a flexible framework consisting of a formally specified Peer-To-Peer protocol. This protocol is best described as a trust-enhanced anonymous tunneling protocol, and meant to provide people with anonymous, secure access to public data.
[20:18] <toad_> so strictly speaking it's more "plausible deniability" - if you have a huge splitfile and too many reqs go through one node, you MAY be able to get a likelihood that that was the originator node - but you can't be certain
[20:18] <Redb3ard> toad, whats to stop someone from following it to the end?
[20:18] <toad_> we will however improve on that
[20:18] <Redb3ard> i suppose these routing nodes are engaged in other requests also?
[20:18] <toad_> Redb3ard: how would they do that?
[20:18] <Redb3ard> and you cant tell which package is going where?
[20:18] <toad_> they'd have to crack all the nodes along the way
[20:18] <toad_> (traffic is of course encrypted)
[20:19] <Redb3ard> toad, lets say I was an FBI agent with some uber warrant
[20:19] <toad_> if you can crack all the freenet nodes you can of course track all requests :|
[20:19] <Redb3ard> im eavesdropping on several of the major backbones
[20:19] <toad_> won't get you very far
[20:19] <toad_> inter-node communications are encrypted
[20:19] <Redb3ard> and i can see the packets going from host to host
[20:19] <toad_> can't be MITM'd either
[20:19] <Redb3ard> i can even guess really easily, which are on freenet
[20:19] <toad_> right, you think you can traffic analyze the transfers?
[20:19] <Redb3ard> i dunno about that
[20:20] <Redb3ard> but i can at least guess who is on freenet
[20:20] <toad_> that is a risk, certainly.. we're better than we were about that, but on low traffic links, perhaps
[20:20] <toad_> on high traffic links, no
[20:20] <toad_> hopefully :)
[20:20] <toad_> Redb3ard: right, you can find who has a node
[20:20] <toad_> fairly easily
[20:20] <toad_> preventing that is not a priority for 1.0
[20:20] <toad_> it may be for 2.0
[20:20] <toad_> but 1.0 will be out on september 11 2084
[20:20] <toad_> :)
[20:20] <|ux> 9/11
[20:21] <|ux> and 100 yrs on from 1984
[20:21] <Redb3ard> please dont take this as an insult, but it does seem more primitive than what most people are used to now
[20:21] <|ux> nice
[20:21] <toad_> Redb3ard: hmm?
[20:21] <toad_> Redb3ard: kazaa et al are detectable
[20:21] <Redb3ard> i mean, trading files around, seems like the 1980s
[20:21] <toad_> most things are
[20:21] <Redb3ard> kazaa is a dumb joke
[20:21] <Redb3ard> you guys take things seriously
[20:21] <toad_> we will make it undetectable. or at least we will try. but not right now. it's still a major improvement over what the chinese lot WERE using.
[20:22] <Redb3ard> is it easy to set up a seperate freenet?
[20:22] <Redb3ard> one unconnected with yours?
[20:22] <|ux> redb3eard: yep
[20:22] <Redb3ard> i have a specific application in mind
[20:22] <toad_> we provide reasonable assurance of anonymity against fairly serious attacks, for requestors, and publishers. we provide a meritocratic distributed file store.
[20:22] <|ux> redb3eard: pointless tho
[20:22] <toad_> Redb3ard: yes, you'd need to hack the code to make sure it never connects to mainstream though since we pass node references around.
[20:22] <Redb3ard> on the network im on, each node that opts to be a router is assigned a /26
[20:22] <Redb3ard> and can invite others
[20:23] <Redb3ard> but they can only invite people outside their national borders
[20:23] <toad_> that's a lot of addresses
[20:23] <Redb3ard> which is a pain, if a friend would like to join
[20:23] <|ux> 1 node per country?
[20:23] <Redb3ard> and we've been tossing around ideas for a NITH protocol, "name in the hat"
[20:23] * toad_ doesn't think we can rely on international jurisdiction issues in the long term
[20:24] <Redb3ard> toad, that may be
[20:24] <Redb3ard> but there are even bigger issues
[20:24] <Redb3ard> still not big enough to scale
[20:24] <Redb3ard> bla
[20:24] <Redb3ard> to see if it will scale, rather
[20:24] <toad_> what is? freenet?
[20:24] <Redb3ard> anyway, we figure you could submit a friends contact info in such a way, that no one can identify you as the guy that submitted it...
[20:25] <Redb3ard> my own, metanet
[20:25] <toad_> Redb3ard: well there are a few ways of doing that
[20:25] <toad_> there are several mixnets, not least good old remailers
[20:25] <Redb3ard> anyway, we figure if that is possible, then you could set a friend up to be invited by someone else
[20:25] <Redb3ard> you'll never know for sure if he got on
[20:25] <|ux> nym.alias.net?
[20:25] <Redb3ard> he'll never know it was you that NITHed him in
[20:25] <toad_> |ux: it's simpler if you only go one way
[20:26] <Redb3ard> and in the spirit of laziness, im wondering if something freenet-esque isnt appropriate for NITH
[20:26] <toad_> perhaps
[20:26] <toad_> there are messaging systems over freenet
[20:26] <toad_> whether it's a sensible use remains to be seen
[20:26] <toad_> or a workable one :)
[20:26] <Redb3ard> the only real trouble, is that if there are only 3 freenet nodes on meta, for NITH... its still pretty easy to guess who submitted
[20:27] * toad_ nods
[20:27] <Redb3ard> so we do have to reach some sort of threshold size, id think
[20:27] <toad_> so you insert a request for somebody else to introduce a third party
[20:28] <Redb3ard> yeh
[20:28] <toad_> send it anonymously to somebody who could introduce him
[20:28] <toad_> only difficulty here is trust
[20:28] <toad_> which is solved by only letting valid people onto the private freenet?
[20:28] <toad_> or whatever it is?
[20:29] <Redb3ard> well, this freenet would run on top of my own anonymous IPv4 network
[20:29] <toad_> or some collective privkey...
[20:29] <toad_> Redb3ard: you have an anonymous IPv4 network?
[20:29] <Redb3ard> and while its far from certain theyre all trustworthy...
[20:29] <toad_> how does it work?
[20:29] <Redb3ard> ok, we're using the 10.x.x.x address space
[20:29] <toad_> right
[20:29] <Redb3ard> take me, in the USA
[20:30] <Redb3ard> i can only invite people not in the USA
[20:30] <toad_> why?
[20:30] <Redb3ard> they're expected to do several things
[20:30] <Redb3ard> first off, be discreet, to an extent
[20:30] <Redb3ard> second, never reveal my real identity to anyone else
[20:30] <Redb3ard> in return, i dont reveal their identity
[20:30] <Redb3ard> i set up a VPN tunnel to them
[20:31] <Redb3ard> doesnt matter which, we're a mix of freeswan and openvpn at the moment
[20:31] <toad_> so an attacker can immediately see the tunnels
[20:31] <Redb3ard> he can, yes
[20:31] <toad_> how do you anonymize the IP addresses then?
[20:31] <Redb3ard> but are they metanet tunnels, or some ijit telecommuting to work?
[20:31] <Redb3ard> if i have 50 tunnels, all encrypted
[20:31] <Redb3ard> even assuming someone narcs their way in
[20:32] <Redb3ard> which of my 50 IP addresses corresponds to which tunnel, from the outside?
[20:32] <toad_> so if you have a hostile node
[20:32] <toad_> hmmm
[20:32] <toad_> i'm not sure exactly how the tech works
[20:32] <Redb3ard> if ive followed the rules, the hostile node is likely in another country
[20:32] <toad_> you can see the IP addresses of the nodes you are connected to, right?
[20:32] <Redb3ard> yes, the internet IPs
[20:32] <toad_> both internal and external?
[20:33] <Redb3ard> 24.125.12.101 has an encrypted tunnel to 1.2.3.4 for instance
[20:33] <toad_> so you can say "10.0.1.5 on metanet == 82.1.6.7"
[20:33] <toad_> okay
[20:33] <Redb3ard> but its all garbage, without the keys
[20:33] <toad_> keys?
[20:33] <Redb3ard> trying to get PKI going
[20:33] * toad_ can't quite see all the pieces yet...
[20:33] <Redb3ard> each of us now is rolling his own symetric keys, for the moment
[20:33] <Redb3ard> ok
[20:33] <Redb3ard> so i have a tunnel to this guy in romania
[20:34] <toad_> if you are doing something you shouldn't do e.g. browsing anti-$cientology sites, from 10.0.1.5, then the peer nodes can see you, right?
[20:34] <Redb3ard> on our vpn network, i have 10.2.3.192/26
[20:34] <Redb3ard> and he'll have 10.4.5.192/26
[20:34] <Redb3ard> if he invites someone, ill be able to see their 10.x address
[20:34] <toad_> s/something you shouldn't do/something you want to do anonymously/
[20:34] * jabawok_ (~srob99@203-59-105-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[20:34] <Redb3ard> never their internet addres
[20:35] <toad_> hmmm
[20:35] <Redb3ard> if i were the narc, here in the USA...
[20:35] <Redb3ard> lets say i extradite him
[20:35] <toad_> if you invite somebody, you can see both
[20:35] <Redb3ard> shit, that does no good...
[20:35] <Redb3ard> he wont remember the info i need
[20:35] <Redb3ard> i want his computer
[20:35] * redseven (real@dsl092-011-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #freenet
[20:35] <Redb3ard> i cant ask the romanians to box it up, send it over here, either
[20:35] <Redb3ard> or i still cant see the info i want
[20:35] <Redb3ard> i have to wiretap a romanian computer, install some trojan
[20:36] <Redb3ard> not an easy thing to do for an FBI agent
[20:36] <toad_> so you ultimately trust your local gateway
[20:36] <Redb3ard> worse, what if its the guy the romanian invites, that i want?
[20:36] <Redb3ard> i dont even know which government to try and persuade, at that point
[20:37] <toad_> is that the idea?
[20:37] <Redb3ard> pretty much
[20:37] <toad_> you have 10.34.1.192
[20:37] <toad_> /26
[20:37] <toad_> and anything under that is a client connected through you
[20:37] <toad_> the problem is that The Man can see the clients, right?
[20:37] <toad_> he can see the connections
[20:37] <toad_> ?
[20:37] <|ux> wait....
[20:37] <Redb3ard> he could do a CALEA on me, and see im connected to roughly 2 dozen people, in other countries
[20:38] <|ux> wont the network give away your MAC ADDRESS?
[20:38] <toad_> are they clients or are they nodes?
[20:38] <Redb3ard> he might even easily be able to get their names, from the IPs
[20:38] <toad_> okay, why do you get a /26 ?
[20:38] <Redb3ard> theyre a mix of clients, and a mix of routers, who invite yet more routers/clients
[20:38] <toad_> is there a distinction between nodes and clients?
[20:38] <Redb3ard> the /26 was a tradeoff
[20:38] <Redb3ard> much bigger, and i invite people to waste IPs
[20:39] <toad_> is there a distinction between nodes and clients?
[20:39] <Redb3ard> any smaller, and i was afraid id starve them
[20:39] <Redb3ard> clients will have a single tunnel to a router
[20:39] <toad_> okay
[20:39] * Knio_ is now known as Knio
[20:39] <toad_> so if I'm The Man, I see there's a router
[20:39] <Redb3ard> routers have (ideally) 12 tunnels to other routers, and as many client tunnels as they care to
[20:39] <toad_> I see it's connected to a dozen clients
[20:39] <toad_> from a wiretap
[20:40] <toad_> well firstly
[20:40] <toad_> I have a node
[20:40] <toad_> I want to bust 10.23.1.6
[20:40] <toad_> which is a client off a node I'm directly connected to
[20:40] <toad_> so I go to that node
[20:40] <toad_> and trace his connections
[20:40] <Redb3ard> true
[20:40] <toad_> I see that he has 10 or so connections to clients
[20:40] <Redb3ard> but if people follow the rules...
[20:40] <toad_> I know their IP addresses
[20:40] <Redb3ard> that node is in another country
[20:40] <toad_> and that matters because...?
[20:41] <toad_> you have to count the EU as a single nation
[20:41] <Redb3ard> well, lets say that country is france
[20:41] <toad_> arguably you have to count the EU and the UKUSA pact as a single unit
[20:41] <toad_> in which case you're stuffed
[20:41] <toad_> but then it depends on your adversary
[20:41] <Redb3ard> does france drop its pants and bend over, every time the USA says it needs to spy on a french citizen, who isnt committing a crime?
[20:42] <toad_> Redb3ard: with the War on Terror?
[20:42] <Redb3ard> besides, the target client might be in malaysia
[20:42] <|ux> how would you know?
[20:42] <redseven> why would 5090 keep giving me out of memory exceptions and never start?
[20:42] <Redb3ard> more so
[20:42] <toad_> might well be able to ignore the government and just threaten the ISP
[20:42] <|ux> ahh
[20:42] <Redb3ard> if this node only has 2 clients
[20:42] <|ux> out of date seed-nodes
[20:42] <Redb3ard> you and the target...
[20:42] <toad_> especially if the ISP has an international presence
[20:42] <|ux> redseven: im guessing
[20:42] <toad_> if you are trying to go from real IP to real ID anyway
[20:42] <Redb3ard> then, you can guess pretty safely the guy in malaysia is your target
[20:42] <|ux> redseven: or the freenet-ext.jar is out of date
[20:42] <redseven> hmm I downloaded the newest seednodes.ref
[20:42] <toad_> the wiretap would be harder
[20:43] <Redb3ard> if he has 20 clients, which is which?
[20:43] <|ux> redseven: i dont know then
[20:43] <Redb3ard> wiretap will only allow you to see the tunnel externally
[20:43] <redseven> I will update freenet-ext
[20:43] <Redb3ard> you have to bust down his door, and keep him from turning the computer off
[20:43] <toad_> well, you KNOW that your target is one of the 20
[20:43] <Redb3ard> if you do that, then you can see which tunnel is which
[20:43] <toad_> so you either bust the node op, or you bust the clients
[20:44] <Redb3ard> bust them for what?
[20:44] <Redb3ard> if it gets that bad, freenet wont fare all that much better
[20:44] * toad_ discounts remote compromize attacks, since that's possible with freenet too :)
[20:44] <Redb3ard> if mere participation is the crime
[20:44] <toad_> sure
[20:44] <toad_> so they bust the node instead
[20:45] <Redb3ard> and its assuming that it will be a 2 hop target
[20:45] <redseven> Hmm that didn't work either... I get this message as well. Skipped bad NodeReference while reading seed nodes
[20:45] <toad_> many countries have laws that say if you run a node you're obliged to do wiretaps for the authorities
[20:45] <Redb3ard> what if its a 19 hop target?
[20:45] <toad_> right now, i mean
[20:45] <mazzanet> toad_: ok i edited the installer to actually grab the updater, and edited the updater to grab latest seednodes :)
[20:46] <Redb3ard> wiretaps might not even be possible for the nodes
[20:46] <toad_> how would they be impossible?
[20:46] <Redb3ard> for instance, we're encouraging all website to do HTTPS, things like that
[20:46] <toad_> wiretaps on physical networks aren't possible without installation of software or hardware
[20:46] <toad_> they still happen
[20:46] <Redb3ard> even looking into encrypted DNS
[20:47] <toad_> that doesn't help the matter; the issue is can you disguise the IP address of the client
[20:47] <toad_> interesting stuff anyway
[20:47] <Redb3ard> well, we are disguising their internet IP
[20:47] <redseven> Are there any files I should delete when I upgrade to 5090?
[20:47] <toad_> don't you have scaling problems if all nodes must be connected to only nodes in other countries?
[20:47] <Redb3ard> but, you cant have an IP network, without knowing the identities, namely the IPs themselves
[20:48] <toad_> redseven: probably not
[20:48] <Redb3ard> toad, lots of scaling problems
[20:48] <redseven> hmmm, I can't get it to start up.. Out of memory every time.
[20:48] <toad_> you can't have lots of US nodes for instance
[20:48] <Redb3ard> many people that want to invite others, have trouble finding anyone interested
[20:48] <Redb3ard> the few they find, often give up for one reason or another
[20:49] <mazzanet> http://www.freenetproject.org/snapshots/UpdateSnapshot.exe <--- the new updater
[20:49] <toad_> that's the problem with invitation networks - but ultimately in hostile territory, we're going to need to do similar things in large parts of freenet
[20:49] <toad_> we need to plan for it
[20:49] <toad_> even if we don't DO it immediately
[20:49] <Redb3ard> invitation networks are only like that til you weather the beginning
[20:49] <Redb3ard> im hoping we start seeing geometric growth sooner or later
[20:50] <toad_> Redb3ard: oh, one other issue: this assumes global connectivity. So does freenet. However IMHO freenet can be adapted to non-global connectivity, if routing works really well. I don't think your idea can.
[20:50] <toad_> Redb3ard: what country are you in?
[20:50] <Redb3ard> USA
[20:50] <toad_> so you have a big tunnel mesh...
[20:51] <toad_> the routing software can tell you what path to take to get to a given internal IP address
[20:51] <toad_> however, it won't tell you what the real IP is of anything outside your immediate horizons
[20:51] <toad_> tell me what hops is common atm?
[20:52] <Redb3ard> at the moment, there are more than id like
[20:52] <toad_> also how far can it scale? does the routing scale? it seems really messy...
[20:52] <Redb3ard> there are chokepoints, that if nailed, metanet dies
[20:52] <Redb3ard> well, here's the thing
[20:52] <Redb3ard> a /26 has 18 bits of subnet
[20:52] <toad_> uhh, it has 6 bits doesn't it?
[20:52] <Redb3ard> thats six 3bit coordinates, in 6d space
[20:52] <toad_> 18 bits fixed, 6 bits subnet?
[20:53] <toad_> 6 bits of clients
[20:53] * toad_ just getting terminology muddled
[20:53] <Redb3ard> yes
[20:53] <Redb3ard> each router has a 6 dimensional coordinate address embedded in his IP address
[20:53] <Redb3ard> and we're using those for routing
[20:54] <toad_> ahhh
[20:54] <toad_> so it's a sort of cube topology
[20:54] <Redb3ard> 2d is easier to visualize
[20:54] <toad_> hypercube
[20:54] <Redb3ard> but its an 8x8 square grid
[20:54] <Redb3ard> and it wraps
[20:54] <Redb3ard> so that 0,6 is adjacent to 7,6
[20:54] <toad_> right
[20:55] <Redb3ard> each of those grid points is a router
[20:55] * toad_ is intimately familiar with wrapping spaces :)
[20:55] <Redb3ard> cool
[20:55] <Redb3ard> thats why i chose /26
[20:55] <Redb3ard> because it allowed for the right number of coordinates
[20:55] <toad_> so 8 bits says "10.x.y.z", 18 bits say coordinates, 6 bits say client id
[20:55] <Redb3ard> the more dimensions, the more efficient hops are
[20:55] <Redb3ard> exactly
[20:56] <toad_> right but if stuff is reachable in 1 hop, you've got security issues
[20:56] <Redb3ard> if you do 2 dimensions, each has an extent of 256
[20:56] <Redb3ard> 10.x.y.* exactly
[20:56] <Redb3ard> but even then, there are hop counts that are insane
[20:56] <Redb3ard> what, 512 corner to corner?
[20:56] <Redb3ard> even wrapping only halves that
[20:56] <toad_> well that's not going to scale bandwidth-wise
[20:56] <Redb3ard> with 6 dimensions, 8x8x8x8x8x8 you have 48 hops, corner to corner
[20:57] <Redb3ard> wrapping knocks it down to a manageable 24 hops
[20:57] <toad_> for any real anonymity you need to be able to support 1000 nodes, ideally 1M nodes
[20:57] <toad_> ah okay
[20:57] <Redb3ard> this supports 252,000 nodes, without an upgrade to IPv6
[20:57] <toad_> 24 hops is reasonable
[20:57] <mazzanet> hrm
[20:57] <Redb3ard> each node probably capable of supporting an average of 10 clients, maybe more
[20:58] <toad_> announcement is decentralized?
[20:58] <mazzanet> toad_: would have a seperate updater in snapshots be better than combining in the webinstaller itself?
[20:58] <toad_> is there a central clearinghouse for allocating addresses?
[20:58] <Redb3ard> not really
[20:58] <toad_> mazzanet: don't know
[20:58] <Redb3ard> if you invite someone who will run another node, his IP is a function of his coordinates
[20:58] <Redb3ard> which have to be adjacent to you
[20:58] * redseven (real@dsl092-011-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ("Leaving")
[20:59] <mazzanet> the updater would only add another 20kb or so to to webinstaller
[20:59] <Redb3ard> each node only has 61 IPs to assign to clients, mind you
[20:59] <toad_> mazzanet: do it
[20:59] <Redb3ard> and thats up to them how they do it
[20:59] <mazzanet> combine them?
[20:59] <toad_> yup
[21:00] <toad_> Redb3ard: interesting
[21:00] <toad_> okay, there's two things I want out of freenet:
[21:00] <Redb3ard> of course, im working on a new routing protocol for this
[21:00] <Redb3ard> you oughtta hear the cisco bigots tell me how BGP is the only possible solution
[21:01] <toad_> 1. I want to eliminate the whole free web hosting issue - I want freenet to be so fast that bandwidth is no longer an issue for publishers of static content and streams ideally, and I want all this to work anonymously of course
[21:01] <mazzanet> ok the installer is now a measily 126kb :P
[21:02] <mazzanet> compared 81kb of what it was before...
[21:02] <toad_> 2. I want a system that can be adapted to work under seriously hostile conditions. IMHO Freenet is more adaptable to such situations than I2P is - if we can make routing work. It may not be the end-point, but it'll be a step along the way
[21:02] <toad_> Redb3ard: different problem domains :)
[21:02] <toad_> do you have a web site? I'm sure I've seen it once but don't have the URL handy
[21:03] <Redb3ard> doubt youve seen it
[21:03] <Redb3ard> im an amateur
[21:03] <Redb3ard> http://24.125.12.101/meta.html
[21:03] <toad_> I'm pretty sure I saw something about VPNing over jurisdictions
[21:03] <Redb3ard> my only pet peeve with freenet, is that all the advanced network stuff im used to, isnt really possible
[21:03] <Redb3ard> i mean, on a technical level, its downright nice
[21:04] <Redb3ard> but you cant really IRC over freenet
[21:04] <|ux> get freenet to work with PHP/MYSQL :D that would be cool
[21:04] <Redb3ard> however, as an off the shelf application for my NITH, i may actually need it
[21:04] <toad_> :)
[21:04] <toad_> Redb3ard: well, actually...
[21:05] <Redb3ard> think of it, an anonymous network, running over the top of an anonymous network
[21:05] <toad_> if we get routing working well, there are options for near real time chat
[21:05] <toad_> only if so though
[21:05] <toad_> also, I2P does real time chat now
[21:05] <toad_> you have probably heard of I2P?
[21:05] <Redb3ard> you wouldnt do too badly, to consider international jurisdiction
[21:05] <Redb3ard> dont make it a requirement
[21:05] <toad_> Redb3ard: hmm?
[21:06] <Redb3ard> but if routers have the choice of international, it can only confuse things more, for hostiles
[21:06] <toad_> you're going to need some onion routing at some point
[21:06] <toad_> if you're serious about protecting the clients
[21:06] <toad_> otherwise there's a good chance you're connected to a hostile
[21:06] <toad_> and they can bust you relatively easily
[21:07] <toad_> owait
[21:07] <toad_> clients
[21:07] <toad_> are clients supposed to be in other jurisdictions too?
[21:07] <Redb3ard> yes
[21:07] <toad_> okay, so how does the client get introduced to the node?
[21:07] <|ux> so ur the only guy in the US who can use this thing Red?
[21:07] <Redb3ard> now, its not impossible, for an FBI agent to go to the expense of leasing an IP that's supposed to be korean
[21:08] <Redb3ard> but to do that, and hope that someday ill invite him randomly...
[21:08] <Redb3ard> its just not a real risk, that i can see
[21:08] <Redb3ard> lux, hardly
[21:08] <Redb3ard> if i invite a german, that german can invite any non-german he wants
[21:08] <toad_> Redb3ard: sure
[21:08] <Redb3ard> and id even guess that would be quite a few americans, since those are the only ones that seem interested
[21:08] <Redb3ard> haha
[21:09] <Redb3ard> not quite true
[21:09] <toad_> if a client is invited to a node, what confidence does he have that the FBI aren't one hop away?
[21:09] <Redb3ard> i have awstats up and running, and after the USA, china is the number 2 country to check out my page
[21:09] <toad_> heh, you mean you haven't been blocked yet? :)
[21:09] <Redb3ard> yeh
[21:09] <mazzanet> there all done
[21:09] <Redb3ard> being lower key has its advantages
[21:10] <toad_> :)
[21:10] <Redb3ard> ok
[21:10] <Redb3ard> the FBI wont invite people at least
[21:10] <Redb3ard> us laws against entrapment
[21:10] <Redb3ard> theyd want to invite the john gottis, who wouldnt be interested
[21:10] <Redb3ard> and the 16 yr old l33t hackers that are, are of no interest
[21:11] <toad_> sure
[21:11] <Redb3ard> but even if they just want to fish, theyd have to wait for that 16yr old to do something illegal, merely connecting isnt a crime
[21:11] <toad_> but if the feds have some nodes
[21:11] <Redb3ard> and, his lawyer would yell entrapment
[21:11] <Redb3ard> at least in the US
[21:11] <toad_> how do you know that you're not one hop away from them?
[21:11] <Redb3ard> depends on the laws of the land though
[21:11] <Redb3ard> dude, i make sure all those IPs are foreign
[21:12] <Redb3ard> and besides, if the FBI has a narc at this early stage, i might as well give up
[21:12] <Redb3ard> they must have known about meta before i did
[21:12] * toad_ sees Metanet as likely a short term solution, in a similar way to how i see that crazy network based on IP spoofing... I2P and Freenet might turn into long term solutions. But it's a different problem domain.
[21:12] <toad_> Redb3ard: sure
[21:12] <toad_> if a US client connects to a german node
[21:12] <toad_> how do they know that a US node connected to the german node is not FBI?
[21:13] <toad_> or do you only allow one connection from each country? that would SEVERELY limit growth
[21:13] <Redb3ard> they dont
[21:13] <Redb3ard> but, can they extradite that german?
[21:13] <Redb3ard> thats the real question
[21:13] <toad_> maybe
[21:13] <Redb3ard> the german fights extradition "your honor, im simply a networking hobbyist, who wanted to experiment with new routing protocols"
[21:14] <Redb3ard> extradition only gets them the immediate node anyway
[21:14] <toad_> the US says "You're a terrorist sympathiser. An Al Qaeda suspect uses your node for covert comms"
[21:14] <Redb3ard> at which point they strand everyone past that
[21:14] <toad_> well, if the topology is as above, then they get the client
[21:14] <Redb3ard> which would be countter productive
[21:14] <toad_> or the US corporation whose work is being "stolen" threatens them
[21:14] <galt> hmmm, the worst part is you could have substituted "communist" for "terrorist" a generation ago. Can we never learn?
[21:15] <Redb3ard> well, im not sure anything is safe from spooks
[21:15] <toad_> well, I'm discounting Echelon here :)
[21:15] <toad_> although I suspect pan-european surveillance isn't so implausible
[21:15] <Redb3ard> but the RIAA cant even understand that undernet has been the biggest haven of mp3 trading for nearly a decade
[21:15] <Redb3ard> so i dont fear them
[21:15] <toad_> well lets see
[21:15] <Redb3ard> i mean, i got my first in 1995, i think?
[21:16] <galt> undernet also got DoS'ed off the map a few times
[21:16] <Redb3ard> true
[21:16] <toad_> the Church of Scientology discovers that some documents they don't like have been served from a client connected to a node they happen to have the real address of
[21:16] <Redb3ard> well, i take that back
[21:16] <toad_> which is in germany
[21:16] <Redb3ard> the FBI, im fairly confident, wont play too dirty
[21:16] <toad_> so they threaten the guy's ISP
[21:16] <toad_> which promptly disconnects him
[21:16] <galt> I wonder if you traced the DoS if the *AA had a few fingers in that
[21:16] <Redb3ard> the RIAA would commit downright criminal acts, to "protect themselves"
[21:16] <toad_> hehe
[21:17] <toad_> the FBI have committed downright criminal acts from time to time
[21:17] <galt> s/would/have/
[21:17] <toad_> at least the secret service have
[21:17] <Redb3ard> toad, metanet cant protect against that
[21:17] * toad_ nods. Again, different problem domains.
[21:17] <Redb3ard> but, hopefully that client, in the time htat he was on metanet, got someone to mirror it
[21:18] * toad_ wonders if there is some sense in multiple interlocking anonymity technologies
[21:18] <galt> toad_: the REAL problem here is that there is no absolute security, just security that it's too much trouble to break
[21:18] <toad_> they do seem to have different specialities
[21:18] <Redb3ard> toad, if that client hadnt been so stingy, and had set up a node/router... he might even get his second tunnel up and running in time
[21:18] <galt> throw layers, and that comes pretty quick
[21:19] <toad_> Redb3ard: yes but if they can get a tap they'll be able to correlate it
[21:19] <Redb3ard> well, im making them work for their money, scrambling to figure out which nation they even need to tap
[21:19] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-65-41-1-233.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[21:19] * toad_ nods
[21:20] <galt> toad_: the only thing is that there are things that may actually REDUCE ssecurity when layered, like hash collisions
[21:20] <Redb3ard> toad, ive even got ideas on how to help dissidents in china, for instance
[21:20] <Redb3ard> obviously, the act of extending a VPN tunnel itself can be a crime
[21:20] <toad_> well, the obvious issue is that things get blocked
[21:20] <Redb3ard> at first, i was thinking some kind of stegonagraphic tunnel
[21:21] <Redb3ard> maybe a webcam of a fishtank, something like that
[21:21] * toad_ nods
[21:21] <Redb3ard> too low bandwidth, and if the software itself is discovered...
[21:21] <toad_> such things have been discussed here and on i2p
[21:21] <Redb3ard> im thinking of letting them get webmail
[21:21] <galt> ...and at DefCon this year
[21:21] <Redb3ard> custom, HTTPSed out the wazoo
[21:22] <toad_> galt: my budget does not extend to trips to the states :)
[21:22] <toad_> not at the moment
[21:22] <Redb3ard> each node sets up his own, custom, for those one or two clients that need it
[21:22] <galt> toad_: ask sanity ;)
[21:22] <toad_> LOL
[21:22] <toad_> yeah sure
[21:22] <galt> ...not for tix, but for reports
[21:22] <toad_> :)
[21:22] <galt> he was THERE, man
[21:23] <toad_> Redb3ard: if you're talking about running IRC...
[21:23] <Redb3ard> heh
[21:23] <toad_> if it's a big network, 24 hops * international latency will make that impossible
[21:23] <toad_> right?
[21:23] <Redb3ard> 3 irc servers on metanet, that i know of
[21:23] <Redb3ard> and one silc
[21:23] * toad_ nods
[21:23] <Redb3ard> we do have alot of broadband, which helps with the latency
[21:23] <toad_> how many total clients/nodes?
[21:24] <Redb3ard> obviously, no one will run a node on dialup
[21:24] <toad_> yeah
[21:24] <galt> Redb3ard: you must realize that China basically blows away any dodge around it's censorship within a matter of hours
[21:24] <Redb3ard> i dont know, exactly
[21:24] <toad_> but it's going to be 50ms-100ms for most international links even assuming the links are very low load
[21:24] <Redb3ard> i cant exactly take a census
[21:24] <Redb3ard> but i think we peaked at over 40 people
[21:24] <toad_> galt: in terms of open proxies yes
[21:24] <Redb3ard> and we have about a dozen that are active, another dozen that show up out of the blue every month or so
[21:24] <toad_> 24 hops * 50ms = 1200ms
[21:25] <toad_> hmm
[21:25] <toad_> but it may be more like 200ms per hop
[21:25] <galt> funny, i wonder why china is having so much success at squelching rational ideas, but we can't do fuck-all about spam :/
[21:25] <Redb3ard> 4 seconds isnt so bad as to rule out IRC
[21:25] <toad_> yeah
[21:25] <toad_> well it's been interesting talking to you
[21:25] <Redb3ard> and i am experimenting with a new transport protocol, that could lighten the loads for certain applications
[21:26] <toad_> maybe sometime i'll set up a meta node... i ought to set up i2p and iip, haven't got around to it yet
[21:26] <greycat> galt: because their watchers face the wrong way.
[21:26] <galt> gee, sounds like my Uni
[21:26] * toad_ going to bed now
[21:26] <Redb3ard> night toad
[21:27] <galt> toad_: can you imagine the specs required for THAT?
[21:27] <galt> bah
[21:27] <Redb3ard> dont suppose anyone else is intrigued enough to want an invitation to metanet?
[21:27] <toad_> hmm wait
[21:27] <toad_> galt: huh?
[21:27] <toad_> Redb3ard: why do you need a CA?
[21:27] <toad_> just generate a key, throw it away when you don't want it
[21:28] <Redb3ard> dont need one
[21:28] <toad_> ||Another service that I feel would be crucial to the success of Meta, would be a digital certificate authority. Even though everyone will be 99% anonymous on Meta, this would allow users to retain some sort of permanent, if faceless, identity. And more importantly, in doing so, they would be free to discard or hide that identity at will. Don't want anyone to know that you were the same Nickname12 that posted to the forums last week?
[21:28] <toad_> tell them. But should you need to prove it so, you would have that opportunity.
[21:28] <Redb3ard> but it can be useful
[21:28] <Redb3ard> i wrote that awhile ago, mind you
[21:29] <toad_> :)
[21:29] <toad_> well bbl zzz
[21:29] <toad_> looking forward to talking to you in future, perhaps
[21:29] <|ux> nite toad)
[21:30] * |ux grumbles that no new build is out for him to test
[21:30] <Redb3ard> lux, want to install openvpn?
[21:31] <mazzanet> night toad
[21:31] <toad_> |ux:
[21:31] <toad_> you could test one for me actually
[21:31] <toad_> there's not much change though
[21:31] <toad_> ah, it's unstable
[21:31] <toad_> okay then not
[21:31] <toad_> it's the "save rate limiting stuff to disk to prevent the startup spike" change
[21:32] <galt> toad_: to jump to unstable, all I need is a new jar, n'est pas? if so, I'll take it
[21:33] <toad_> Redb3ard: I try not to see other networks as a threat.. as I explained earlier, we all have different problem domains, different things we're good at, and I'm not sure exactly what any of the networks will ultimately be used for, what form they will take or how useful they will be against serious attack
[21:33] <toad_> Redb3ard: so good luck
[21:33] <Redb3ard> well, i came here because im seriously getting interested in doing a freenet on top of meta
[21:34] <toad_> well, try it
[21:34] <toad_> frost or freemail on top would make sense for your application
[21:34] <galt> Redb3ard: you might do it on a local net first, to ensure you don't end up hashcrashing
[21:35] <toad_> making it a closed network would require some customization
[21:35] <|ux> toad_: only the same as stable/unstable, are right?
[21:36] * toad_ thinks once we get it working freenet's non-anonymity features are quite interesting in themselves
[21:36] <toad_> potentially
[21:36] <toad_> anyway
[21:36] <toad_> i really ought to go now
[21:36] <toad_> :)
[21:36] <|ux> nite toad:)
[21:46] <|ux> nite all
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[23:00] <Hamled> where can I get unstable for Windows?
[23:01] <greycat> all the .jar files are platform-independent. Install freenet, configure it, then replace your freenet.jar file with the unstable build.
[23:02] <Hamled> ok, where can I get the unstable build of freenet.jar?
[23:02] <Hamled> freenet-latest ?
[23:03] <greycat> they're all in freenetproject.org/snapshots/
[23:03] <Hamled> thanks
[23:03] <iip_i2p> <anon> http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-unstable-latest.jar
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[23:51] <dgrant> should I upgrade to the new stable?
[23:52] <mikeDOTd> yes
[23:53] <dgrant> mikeDOTd: ok
[23:53] <dgrant> mikeDOTd: should I reconfigure?
[23:54] <mikeDOTd> your freenet.ini/freenet.conf should be ok
[23:54] <mikeDOTd> there's a lot of fixes in the new build, that seem to be making a very nice improvement
[23:56] <dgrant> mikeDOTd: ok thanks
[23:57] <dgrant> mikeDOTd: its seems to be back up and running with no problems
[23:57] <dgrant> mikeDOTd: I'll be back later...
[23:57] * dgrant (~dgrant@d154-20-147-177.bchsia.telus.net) Quit ("Leaving")
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
