Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:03] * dgrant (~dgrant@d154-20-147-177.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[0:05] <dgrant> I'm getting a few errors during configuration and I was wondering how to fix them
[0:06] <dgrant> ERROR: Resource name [freenet/support/CPUInformation/libjcpuid-x86-linux.so] was not found
[0:06] <dgrant> WARN: Native CPUID library jcpuid not loaded - will not be able to read CPU information using CPUID
[0:06] <dgrant> NOTICE: Resource name [net/i2p/util/libnull.so] was not found
[0:06] <dgrant> NOTICE: Resource name [net/i2p/util/libjbigi-linux-none.so] was not found
[0:06] <dgrant> INFO: Native BigInteger library jbigi not loaded - using pure java
[0:06] <salahx> liek what ?
[0:06] <dgrant> sorry for flood
[0:06] <salahx> its harmless
[0:06] <salahx> but its easily fixed
[0:06] <dgrant> salahx: I figured it was harmless. but I was curious how to fix
[0:06] <salahx> jsut download re-downin gadn reinstall freenet-ext.jar
[0:08] <salahx> err re-download and reinstall freenet-ext.jar; it was changed to have those files in it
[0:08] <dgrant> salahx: where is freenet-ext.jar?
[0:08] <dgrant> I just see freenet-latest.jar
[0:09] <salahx> http://www.freenetproject.org/snapshots/freenet-ext.jar
[0:09] <salahx> are you on Gentoo ?
[0:09] <salahx> if you install gmp on your system it should find it too
[0:14] <salahx> Got it ?
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[1:17] * benxor (~benxor@c211-30-79-122.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #freenet
[1:18] <benxor> hi, i've just installed freenet unstable on a gentoo system, and configured it, but when i try to access any page or resource at all in the browser, it says the 'request hasn't even got off your node'. even when i change HTL to 5000 or something, it still comes up with this error within about 1second. anyone have any idea what's causing this?
[1:20] <salahx> well 2 things:
[1:20] <salahx> First, the Gentoo ebuild grab rhw wworng seednodes by default
[1:20] <salahx> for unstable, anyway
[1:21] <dgrant_> benxor: use stable
[1:24] <mikeDOTd> i think the stable network is really small at the moment
[1:25] <mikeDOTd> my node has been up since the 5089 pre-release, and i'm only connected to 90 nodes
[1:26] <jabawok_h2> yeah give it a week or so for the 5084 noderunners to realise they are not talking to anyone anymore (except themselves)..
[1:27] <jabawok_h2> I would suggest that because of the network rset, the old nodes won't show "latest build:5089" so they may take a while to realise... correct me if i'm wrong though..
[1:27] <vsalento> mikeDOTd: what is the connection limit on OC page?
[1:28] <jabawok_h2> (deffault is 200 now)
[1:28] <benxor> salahx: where can i find the proper seednodes?
[1:30] <vsalento> I know... and I think the node tries to keep open connections to only half the limit (default: 100 if I'm not mistaken)
[1:36] * benxor (~benxor@c211-30-79-122.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) Quit ("Leaving")
[1:40] <dgrant_> mikeDOTd: how big is the unstable network?
[1:42] <dgrant_> so in gentoo it doesn't fetch the proper unstable node list?
[1:43] <salahx> no, the one you want is this one: http://www.freenetproject.org/snapshots/unstable.ref
[1:44] <salahx> there only 1 referece in it now though...
[1:44] * ninja_ (im10ninjas@modem-2782.lemur.dialup.pol.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[1:44] <salahx> did EVERYONE in unstable move to 5089 ?
[1:45] <mikeDOTd> i believe toad said there was very minimal difference between stable and unstable right now
[1:45] <salahx> yeah pretty much
[1:45] <mikeDOTd> so it's possible the unstable kids moved to check it out
[1:45] <salahx> stable is now unstable :)
[1:45] <salahx> and stable was alrady pretty unstable lol
[1:46] <dgrant_> what is 5089 mean?
[1:46] <mikeDOTd> 5098 is the latest stable build
[1:46] <mikeDOTd> s/98/89
[1:47] <dgrant_> is the unstable 60180
[1:47] <dgrant_> ?
[1:47] <dgrant_> that's what I have
[1:47] <salahx> yep
[1:47] <dgrant_> why is the number so different?
[1:48] <dgrant_> gentoo grabbed http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/unstable.ref.bz2
[1:48] <dgrant_> is that all good?
[1:48] <salahx> yep
[1:48] <dgrant_> hmm, no connections ingoing or outgoing yet
[1:49] <dgrant_> ooo, now I have 2 incoming, 0 outgoing
[1:49] <salahx> it takes a while
[1:52] <dgrant_> now 0/0
[1:52] <salahx> ya'd probably be better off on5089
[1:53] <dgrant_> why?
[1:53] <salahx> 'cuz that's where veryone is migrating
[1:53] <dgrant_> salahx: is that stable?
[1:53] <salahx> Yes
[1:53] <dgrant_> salahx: why would they migrate to stable
[1:54] <salahx> well teh changes in unstable eventualy get merge to stable...
[1:54] <salahx> Right now, we're in one of those merges
[1:54] <dgrant_> salahx: ah
[1:54] <dgrant_> salahx: ok
[1:55] <salahx> Since 5089 repsrent a "netowrk reset", unstable wil probanly be very quiet until the netowrk has had a chance to rebuilt itself
[1:57] <dgrant_> salahx: ok I'm on 5089 now
[1:58] <salahx> don;t forget to chagne seednodes to the oprginal ones :)
[2:00] <dgrant_> salahx: gentoo did that for me i think
[2:00] <salahx> ok
[2:00] <salahx> you should have lots of connections now
[2:01] <dgrant_> salahx: just 1/2 now. But before I had a lot
[2:01] <salahx> espcial;y given that the seednodes.ref on the server is 23.5 MB is size :)
[2:02] <salahx> (but only 1 MB compress with bz2!)
[2:02] <dgrant_> salahx: gentoo grabbed this one: http://freenetproject.org/snapshots/seednodes.ref.bz2 1,037,205 bytes
[2:02] <salahx> yepm, tha'ts it
[2:03] <dgrant_> salahx: ok
[2:05] <salahx> wow 602 nodes !
[2:08] <dgrant_> salahx: what is going on with the bandwidth settings, are they in bytes/second or kilobytes/second
[2:08] <dgrant_> ??
[2:08] <salahx> bytes/s
[2:08] <dgrant_> salahx: always?
[2:08] <salahx> in the config file, yeah
[2:08] <dgrant_> when I run the ebuild config in gentoo it says kb/s
[2:09] <dgrant_> I mean kB/s
[2:09] <salahx> then tis a bug
[2:09] <salahx> it is bytes/s, hence hte defaulty of 12200
[2:09] <salahx> which is suitable for 128kpbs up
[2:09] <salahx> but don;t worry too much; bandwsidth limiting doesn';t work anyway :)
[2:10] <dgrant_> salahx: are you sure?
[2:10] <salahx> that its in bytes/s? Yes
[2:13] <dgrant_> I'm only getting like 2/1 now. it's messed up. before I went to unstable, I was on stable, and I had like 30 outbound
[2:13] <salahx> yam ight want to nuke your RT and reseed
[2:14] <dgrant_> how do I do that?
[2:15] <salahx> stop the node, delete all teh files with "_" in them, make sure /var/freenet/seednodes.ref is correct adn restart
[2:28] <dgrant_> I'm seeing some more action. 0/19 now
[2:34] <salahx> good
[2:34] <salahx> it'll take abotu 24 hours for you node to establish itself
[2:38] <iip_i2p> <help> hello?
[2:39] * dgrant_ (~dgrant@d154-20-147-177.bchsia.telus.net) Quit ("Leaving")
[2:39] <salahx> hellp !
[2:40] <salahx> err hellp !
[2:40] <salahx> err hello !
[2:40] <iip_i2p> <help> i have a question
[2:40] <salahx> sure, what is it ?
[2:44] <iip_i2p> <help> ?
[2:45] <iip_i2p> <help> why is it when i update snapshot and i right click on the icon on the bottom right and click about it still says 0.5.2.8 ?
[2:45] <iip_i2p> <help> woops i forgot the : a min ago lol
[2:46] <iip_i2p> <help> can you help?
[2:46] <salahx> sure
[2:47] <salahx> 0.5.2.8 is the version of the FReenet SYSTRAY icon
[2:47] <salahx> Not Fred itself
[2:47] <iip_i2p> <help> lol thats odd
[2:47] <iip_i2p> <help> lol thats odd
[2:48] <iip_i2p> <help> i havent connected to freened at all since i got it
[2:48] <iip_i2p> <help> i get errors
[2:48] <salahx> liek what ?
[2:48] <iip_i2p> <help> is this eyeKon a bot of somesort?
[2:49] <salahx> I don;t know, I'm on Freenode, not IIP
[2:50] <iip_i2p> <help> i get Route Not Found
[2:50] <salahx> well that can be normal, unfeoruntly
[2:50] <salahx> Does your OCM show any connection ?
[2:51] <iip_i2p> <help> gosh this eyeKon is annoying it keeps repeating what i type
[2:51] <iip_i2p> <help> ocm?
[2:51] <salahx> Open Connection Manager, its on the main page at http://127.0.0.1:8888 . You need ot be in adivacned mode to see it though...
[2:52] <salahx> you'll see something at the top liek this:
[2:52] <salahx> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 124 (105/19/200)
[2:52] <salahx> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 86 (24/62)
[2:52] <salahx> Data waiting to be transferred 564 Bytes
[2:52] <salahx> Total amount of data transferred 704 MiB
[2:54] <iip_i2p> <help> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 0 (0/0/200)
[2:55] <mazzanet> salahx!
[2:55] <salahx> Hi mazzanet !
[2:55] <iip_i2p> <help> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 0 (0/0
[2:55] <iip_i2p> <help> Data waiting to be transferred None
[2:55] <salahx> tha'ts not good
[2:55] <salahx> You need to reseed
[2:56] <iip_i2p> <help> Total amount of data transferred 150 KiB
[2:56] <iip_i2p> <help> how do i do thAT?
[2:56] <salahx> downlaod this: http://home.earthlink.net/~salahx/freenet/unstable.ref.gz
[2:57] <salahx> then right click the bunny and choose "Import Node Refs"
[2:57] <iip_i2p> <help> hmm..
[2:58] <iip_i2p> <help> cant i do that bu right clicking the icfon and selecting import new node ref in the normal settings area?
[2:58] <salahx> well you need to get refs from somewhere...
[2:59] <salahx> yeah
[2:59] <salahx> I think
[2:59] <iip_i2p> <help> ...
[3:01] <salahx> what version is your ndoe showing ?
[3:01] <salahx> on the main page ?
[3:03] <iip_i2p> <help> build?
[3:03] <iip_i2p> <help> build 5089
[3:03] <salahx> good
[3:04] <iip_i2p> <help> argh i hate this :/
[3:04] <iip_i2p> <help> so what can i do ?
[3:05] <iip_i2p> <help> just try to import new refs?
[3:05] <salahx> Yes
[3:05] <iip_i2p> <help> ok
[3:06] <salahx> then restart your node
[3:06] <iip_i2p> <help> just wondering,why do you repeat what i type? lol
[3:06] <iip_i2p> <help> ok
[3:07] <iip_i2p> <help> ty for the help :)
[3:07] <salahx> yw :)
[3:07] <salahx> I take it its working now ?
[3:08] <iip_i2p> <help> ima try it now
[3:08] <iip_i2p> <help> bye
[3:08] <salahx> ok se ya
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[3:33] <jabawok_h2> for toad_ irc backlog reading pleasure:
[3:33] <jabawok_h2> 5089 "plus" Uptime: 0 days, 5 hours, 19 minutes
[3:33] <jabawok_h2> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit)138 (119/19/200)
[3:33] <jabawok_h2> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving)597 (15/582)
[3:33] <jabawok_h2> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator16
[3:34] <jabawok_h2> .
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[4:18] * robilad[afk] is now known as robilad
[4:18] <robilad> good morning gentlemen
[4:21] * Sirius (Sirius@D7022.d.pppool.de) has joined #freenet
[4:21] <Sirius> hi kann mir hier einer weiterhelfen? http://people.freenet.de/tobias1989/Fehler.doc
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[5:02] * michaelkuijn (~michaelku@fia41-111.dsl.hccnet.nl) has joined #freenet
[5:03] <michaelkuijn> My HD is grinding... didn't expect that from 'eightynine
[5:07] <KenMan> "The Birth of a Network" -> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jkcorson/FreeNet/5089c.png
[5:07] <KenMan> It doesn't necessarily mean anything to me, but I will draw the picture anyway.
[5:10] <KenMan> It is still quite early in the game to analyze this network. I wouldn't say that queries oscillate, but in my opinion, they { "randomly happen to" / "are allowed to" } rise too much too quickly...
[5:11] <michaelkuijn> Mmmm. Interesting
[5:12] <michaelkuijn> I think I know why my HD is grinding all the time. Freenet uses so much RAM that my Linux system is constantly using the swap. Can I fix this?
[5:13] <KenMan> yes. reduce the amount of swap available on your system, also 'echo "0" > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness'
[5:13] <KenMan> you can verify if it is swap activity by running 'vmstat 1'
[5:14] <michaelkuijn> Are the effects of the first command permanent? What does it do exactly?
[5:15] <KenMan> it reduces the system's desire to swap. Search/google for swappiness .
[5:15] <michaelkuijn> I think it worked. Thx
[5:15] <michaelkuijn> I'll go check the KDE Info Center
[5:18] <KenMan> also, some people provide excessive heap for their JVMs, whereas a smaller value can improve things. It causes garbage collection to be less frequent, thus when it DOES happen, it has a much larger impact...
[5:20] <KenMan> forcing the kernel to manage all that smelly extra garbage is possible cause for more swap activity - to swap *garbage* !!
[5:25] <michaelkuijn> I see. But are the effects of the first command permanent?
[5:25] * KenMan has a silly question - could abandoned inserts cause the number of incoming xfers to go/stay high ??
[5:26] <michaelkuijn> Mmm
[5:26] <KenMan> michaelkuijn: not permanent across a reboot, no.
[5:26] <michaelkuijn> Where can I configure the JVM heap size?'
[5:26] <KenMan> if you haven't done it before, you shouldn't need to. Some people turn the knob way up, which might not be helpful.
[5:27] <KenMan> It is set at a pretty good default size.
[5:34] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[5:34] <KenMan> This is odd - 5089 up 31 hrs, Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 81 (38/43) , only at 43. Why am I lucky with few runaways ?
[5:35] <jabawok_h2> are you running frost?
[5:35] <jabawok_h2> any splitfille downloads?
[5:36] <KenMan> nope. just running the node...
[5:36] <jabawok_h2> thats probably why.. not much activity being caused by your node
[5:36] <jabawok_h2> guessing its got something to do with it anyway
[5:36] <michaelkuijn> 5089, 14 hours 32 minutes, Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 60 (18/42)
[5:37] * KenMan should be in deep sleep right now... (5:55am)... bad dinner work him up.
[5:37] <michaelkuijn> Wow
[5:37] <michaelkuijn> When I do something like that, I begin hallucinating *real* bad
[5:38] <KenMan> no, i was sleeping, but the dinner *woke* me up, and in a hurry too.
[5:38] <jabawok_h2> lol.. sorry to hear that.
[5:38] <michaelkuijn> I see
[5:38] <jabawok_h2> Uptime: 0 days, 7 hours, 24 minutes
[5:38] <jabawok_h2> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit)145 (126/19/200)
[5:38] <jabawok_h2> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving)889 (6/883)
[5:38] <hobx> dinner included mushrooms of several different colors?
[5:39] <jabawok_h2> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator17
[5:40] <jabawok_h2> i'm going to leave it running till toad_ wakes up - see if i can set the record for max Receiving connectios..
[5:40] <KenMan> hobx - naw, just a variety of things the restaurant called 'seafood' :( plus approx. 1 pound of butter and/or sour cream
[5:41] <hobx> seafood typically doesn't make me hallucinate
[5:42] * Ash-Fox (Hal-9000@aae126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[5:42] <hobx> Anybody know if there are any good irc clients for cellphones?
[5:43] <KenMan> hobx - dinner didn't make me hallucinate , it just gave my bowels the sudden urge to move, many hours later. Enough details ??
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[5:44] <hobx> noop
[5:44] <hobx> I want the entire process, in detail
[5:44] <hobx> You don't have pictures by any chance?
[5:44] <jabawok_h2> Yes enough details lol stop now ..
[5:44] <KenMan> okay then, it was smelly and nasty and i had to wash the acidic material from my bum when I was finished
[5:45] <hobx> that's not seafood. That's chile!
[5:47] <hobx> And it isn't acid. It's a neurotoxin.
[5:47] <michaelkuijn> Ohoh
[5:47] * michaelkuijn goes to the vaults of Erowid
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[6:09] <Janete> what's the point when you get:
[6:09] <Janete> Error: Route Not Found
[6:09] <Janete> Attempts were made to contact 0 nodes.
[6:09] <Janete> Attempts were made to contact 0 nodes.
[6:09] <Janete> 0 were totally unreachable.
[6:09] <Janete> 0 restarted.
[6:09] <Janete> 0 cleanly rejected.
[6:09] <Janete> 0 backed off.
[6:09] <Janete> the node has over 100 connections
[6:09] <Janete> running for a day
[6:10] <Janete> 5089
[6:10] <Janete> no related error logs
[6:10] <Janete> how can be that no node is attempted?
[6:10] <Janete> is it normal?
[6:13] <michaelkuijn> Have the good seednodes?
[6:14] <Janete> yep
[6:14] <Janete> and a later request has worked
[6:14] <Janete> I just wonder why sometimes this happens
[6:14] <michaelkuijn> Happened to me when I was using 5088
[6:14] <michaelkuijn> What does the uber-detailed open connection report say?
[6:15] <michaelkuijn> Contact with other 5089s?
[6:15] <Janete> i have now 140 peers
[6:15] <Janete> all of them are 5089
[6:16] <Janete> I mean, is there any reason to not attempt any node?
[6:16] <Janete> overloading?
[6:16] <Janete> or something?
[6:20] <michaelkuijn> Mmmm
[6:22] <Janete> If there is a reason, it's ok for me
[6:22] <Janete> but I thing it should be said in the fail page as well
[6:30] <michaelkuijn> I say to myself: THAT'S IT. I'm going to buy some RAM
[6:30] <michaelkuijn> 256 is not enough
[6:35] <verl> 256-512 makes a really pleasent change 512-1024 not that good i hear
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[6:41] <michaelkuijn> verl, why?
[6:41] <michaelkuijn> And I sometimes see people bragging with their 2GB
[6:41] * jabawok (~srob99@203-59-164-47.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #freenet
[6:42] <michaelkuijn> Aaaah. My on-line banking is *unreachable*
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[6:43] <michaelkuijn> verl?
[6:45] <michaelkuijn> verl please
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[7:08] <verl> michaelkuijn: :) most os's need a little more than 256 to keep from swaping when running various programs
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[7:15] <michaelkuijn> verl: It's like a hyperbole's asymptote
[7:16] <michaelkuijn> Right?
[7:16] <michaelkuijn> Well anyway: System going down!
[7:16] <michaelkuijn> See ya all
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[7:25] <hobx> "Need to get 603 MB from archives"
[7:26] * hobx should apt-get upgrade more often
[7:26] <hobx> Who is willing to bet this won't bust my system?
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[7:28] <lostlogic> Error: Route Not Found
[7:28] <lostlogic> Attempts were made to contact 3 nodes.
[7:28] <lostlogic> * 0 were totally unreachable.
[7:28] <lostlogic> * 1 restarted.
[7:28] <lostlogic> * 2 cleanly rejected.
[7:28] <lostlogic> * 89 backed off
[7:28] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) has joined #FreeNet
[7:43] <galt> yeah, I'm getting "the network is busy, please try again"
[7:44] <mazzanet> ergh
[7:45] <mazzanet> whos this "luis vitorio cargnini" tool on the lists
[7:48] <hobx> they're just making up error messages now aren't they...
[7:51] * mazzanet posts on the lists for the first time in... a while
[8:20] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-402418b2.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) Quit ("Going to the moon")
[8:32] * michaelkuijn (~michaelku@fia41-111.dsl.hccnet.nl) has joined #freenet
[8:32] <michaelkuijn> Ah beautiful, 512 MB Ram
[8:33] <michaelkuijn> The slot was hard to reach though...
[8:36] <michaelkuijn> verl, I did it
[8:38] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[8:41] <verl> michaelkuijn: woho :)
[8:44] <hobx> Restarting after dist-upgrade.
[8:44] <hobx> chances are I'm not coming back today
[8:44] <hobx> :-(
[8:45] * hobx (~hobx@h196n1fls21o1077.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[8:45] * ChanServ sets mode +o hobx
[8:49] <michaelkuijn> verl, and swap is 0 %
[8:49] <michaelkuijn> Do memory banks use much power by the way? My PS fan (variable speeds) is running at 100%
[8:58] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) has joined #freenet
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[9:01] <ShaunMacPherson> brb
[9:01] * ShaunMacPherson (~ShaunMac@Sudbury-HSE-ppp3981095.sympatico.ca) has left #freenet
[9:03] <michaelkuijn> Wooohooo 'eightynine is smoooth
[9:05] <galt> michaelkuijn: if you like programs that can put a SB100'as load up to 11
[9:07] <michaelkuijn> galt, ?
[9:08] <michaelkuijn> galt, quelle processor, quelle memory?
[9:09] <galt> ultrasparc IIi
[9:09] <galt> 384M memory IIRC
[9:10] <galt> sometime tonight, I looked at prstat (top for solaris) and saw my load had peaked in the area of 11
[9:14] <michaelkuijn> Ai Caramba
[9:14] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
[9:14] <michaelkuijn> Well, I think the bottleneck is the memory
[9:14] <michaelkuijn> I just bought 256 MB extra (total now 512) an hour ago, and everything is *smooooth*
[9:15] <michaelkuijn> 0 % swap eh!
[9:15] <galt> prolly, but Sun memory is fuckin expensive. But you're right, I will get my 4G as soon as I can get a round tuit
[9:16] <michaelkuijn> No alternative brands?
[9:16] <galt> if nothing else than it'll rawk with the sunpci that's next on the list ;)
[9:17] <galt> that IS the alternative: Crucial wants like $400 to fill the memory up
[9:17] <galt> Sun wants a few K
[9:17] <michaelkuijn> Yowch
[9:17] <michaelkuijn> And I thought Mac parts were expensive
[9:17] * greycat (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) has joined #freenet
[9:18] <galt> ahhh, apparently the price has gone down: $137/half gig
[9:19] <galt> of course, the 4G implies I get a new processor :/
[9:22] <michaelkuijn> Hi greycat
[9:22] <greycat> hi
[9:23] <michaelkuijn> Somehow I always get a happy feeling if Frost has new messages...
[9:24] <michaelkuijn> I got mail! I got mail! I got mail! Yaaaaaay. I got mail! I got mail! I got mail! Have you got mail? I got mail. Yaaay.
[9:24] <galt> god, almost like usenet in the day ;P
[9:24] <michaelkuijn> galt, by the way, have you seen messages from Lost Floppy?
[9:25] <galt> not as of late, no
[9:25] <michaelkuijn> Mmm
[9:25] <verl> is gott still on frost?
[9:25] <michaelkuijn> Well... I am the Lost Floppy. Someone has forged my signature to post GOATSE.CX ASCII !
[9:25] <galt> ...mostly because I'm not yet comfortable with freenet to put frost on top
[9:26] <michaelkuijn> Mmm
[9:26] <michaelkuijn> Ah! New mail
[9:27] <michaelkuijn> Mmm. Salve a tutti indeed
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> albrecht
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> scarecrow civet pact
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> candle
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> yep
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> sobriquet
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> --
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> Evening, landlord :)
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> Labor is the beginning, the middle, and the end of art.
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> Friends applaud, the comedy is over.
[9:43] <michaelkuijn> Searching for pill in internet? feudists embusk
[9:44] <michaelkuijn> --
[9:44] <michaelkuijn> turning softly, springtime, nothingness, cat is on fire
[9:49] <galt> michaelkuijn: it might be cheaper than I though to max out this beast: looks like I'm stuck at 2G max :(
[9:51] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
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[11:09] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[11:09] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[11:28] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[11:29] <hobx> back from defcon Ian?
[11:47] <michaelkuijn> Heh
[11:50] * Hobxmob (~Hobxmob@194.143.23.36) has joined #Freenet
[11:51] <hobx> hmm
[11:51] <hobx> will i talk
[11:52] <hobx> stupid thing
[11:56] <Hobxmob> I can chat with my cellphone.
[11:56] <Hobxmob> How uselessly nifty!
[12:01] <michaelkuijn> Eh?
[12:06] * pupok (~janie@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[12:06] * thelema|away (~thelema@adsl-65-65-202-46.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[12:07] <Hobxmob> IRC on my cellphone
[12:08] <hobx> ok. Somewhat annoying to have to thumbtype, but cool none the less.
[12:08] * Hobxmob (~Hobxmob@194.143.23.36) has left #Freenet
[12:13] <sanity> hobx: what kind of cellphone?
[12:14] <sanity> yes, i am back from vegas
[12:15] <galt> hobx: treo?
[12:15] <galt> sanity: you convinced me to use freenet again in vegas, BTW ;)
[12:19] <hobx> no
[12:19] <hobx> it is just a normal SE model
[12:20] <hobx> any phone with internet and j2me can do irc apparently
[12:20] <hobx> http://wirelessirc.sourceforge.net/
[12:20] * MrNaughty (MrNaughty@d198-166-55-147.abhsia.telus.net) Quit ("\(^_^)/' No Soliciting!!! Unless you have legs way, way up and really, really big tits....")
[12:23] <sanity> galt: happy to be of service :-)
[12:23] <sanity> hobx: is it a nice client?
[12:25] <KenMan> I have a technical question for the toad (or anyone else who can answer)... - when a node has to retry due to RNF (up to 2 or 3 times), does the backoffCount for that routing log the backoff to the first attempt, or last attempt, or what ??
[12:25] * KenMan wonders how accurate backoffCount really is...
[12:27] <KenMan> hobx is now cool in my book. But don't you have to read really fast ? I mean, how many letters can a 1" LCD really show you at one time ??
[12:27] <hobx> sanity: It works. Not exactly superpolished maybe.
[12:28] <hobx> KenMan: 8 lines ? 15 character or so
[12:28] <hobx> so not that bad
[12:28] <sanity> hobx: my phone's screen just went dim...
[12:28] <KenMan> sanity: maybe he stopped typing in bold ?
[12:28] <sanity> here we go
[12:29] <KenMan> wait, can sanity tele-irc like hobx ??
[12:30] * sanity is now known as sanitynb
[12:31] <hobx> sanitynb: If your phone can't do sockets (mine can't) you have go into the advanced setting and tell it to use an http gateway.
[12:31] <KenMan> I'll wait for the tablet-IRC models that can do 80x25, tyvm...
[12:32] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[12:33] <KenMan> and do voice-to-text !! Text-to-voice would oblierate the need for a screen... hmm
[12:33] * KenMan schemes on how to make his next $20m
[12:33] <sanitynb> hobx: my phone asked me whether the program could connect via a socket
[12:33] <galt> KenMan: you know you want to IRC-via-graffiti ;P
[12:33] <sanitynb> looks like it might be working...
[12:33] * sanitynb is now known as sanity
[12:33] <hobx> so you have a better phone then mine
[12:34] * galt is getting a palmphone RSN, so might be IRCing via fone too ;)
[12:34] <sanity> hobx: maybe not, the connection just timed out
[12:34] <hobx> sanity: Did you set it to freenode?
[12:34] <hobx> the default server was something else
[12:34] <KenMan> geenet , probably
[12:35] <sanity> hobx: yes
[12:35] <sanity> i keep getting connection timeouts from the gateway
[12:35] <hobx> the second one it tried worked for me.
[12:36] <hobx> but if you have sockets you shouldn't need a gateway...
[12:36] * Hobxmob (~Hobxmob@194.143.23.36) has joined #Freenet
[12:37] <Hobxmob> Still works here
[12:37] * sanity|mob (~sanity|mo@ti100710a080-5113.bb.online.no) has joined #freenet
[12:38] <Hobxmob> Very lagged though
[12:39] <hobx> better now
[12:39] <sanity> hobx: erm, how do you send a message to the channel?
[12:39] <hobx> select the msg function and type it
[12:39] <sanity|mob> hello?
[12:40] <sanity|mob> awkward...
[12:40] <Hobxmob> Wee. Bell chatting buddies!
[12:41] * jayo (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[12:41] <Hobxmob> S/bell/cell/
[12:42] <sanity> hobx: I am trying jmIrc
[12:44] * KenMan doesn't consider himself important enough to have a cellphone - what is the current % of cell-enabled earthlings ?
[12:44] <jayo> earthlings?
[12:44] <galt> KenMan: I consider it better than a wirephone
[12:45] <jayo> probably around 10-20%
[12:45] <jayo> most people are dirt poor on Earth
[12:45] * KenMan is dirt poor !
[12:45] <jayo> [jay] (~Miranda@208.133.5.189) : Jason
[12:45] <jayo> why is this person *always* sitting on my registered nick?>
[12:45] * Hobxmob (~Hobxmob@194.143.23.36) has left #Freenet
[12:46] <jayo> does this stuff happen to anyone else?
[12:46] <galt> KenMan: So'm I technically, I just dumped landline for it
[12:46] <greycat> maybe you just need to ghost him more often
[12:46] <jayo> after i recover the nick, is there a 'whois' that looks up based on hostname or something?
[12:47] <galt> jayo: /whowas
[12:47] <jayo> galt: that won't tell me who the person is *now*
[12:47] <jayo> after i take back my nick
[12:47] <jayo> galt: unless im wrong.. am i?
[12:47] <galt> jayo: it will if you do it between ghost and /nick
[12:48] <KenMan> go haunt him in his normal channels !
[12:48] <jayo> galt: what do u mean by ghost?
[12:48] <jayo> KenMan: exactly
[12:48] <greycat> jayo: /msg nickserv ghost jay [yourpass]
[12:48] <galt> jayo: /cs ghost jay <password>
[12:48] <jayo> KenMan: once i did this and it turned out to be a guy who didn't understand nick registration and irc in general.. so it was just a misunderstanding
[12:48] <hobx> ian: Virca is supposed to be good if it works for you.
[12:50] <sanity> Virca?
[12:50] <sanity> will try
[12:50] <jayo> galt: /cs? what client are u using?
[12:50] <galt> gah, I meant /ns, and it's xchat
[12:51] <jayo> how does ghost differ from recover ?
[12:51] <KenMan> newstable 5O89 - reqs & routings/hr look decent, success is good too, albeit lower volume.
[12:51] <greycat> /msg nickserv help ghost
[12:51] <jayo> greycat: heh yes i did
[12:51] <jayo> greycat: they seem functionally equivalent
[12:52] <jayo> well not quite
[12:53] * jayo is now known as jay
[12:54] <sanity> being able to write software for phones is pretty darn cool
[12:57] <sanity> ok, off to pub
[12:57] <sanity> ttfn
[13:02] * TLF (francisco@178.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
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[13:21] * TLF (francisco@178.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
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[13:51] * robilad[afk] (~topic@mpiat2313.ag2.mpi-sb.mpg.de) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[13:56] * Lux (~Lux@82-37-17-24.cable.ubr03.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[13:56] <Lux> heh
[13:59] <Lux> PING toad_ verl?
[14:01] <toad_> hi Lux
[14:02] <toad_> hehe, i missed ian... typical
[14:02] <toad_> I have a possible partial fix for the inconsistency
[14:02] <toad_> but it is still inconsistent :|
[14:02] * toad_ will read irc backlog...
[14:04] * ninja_ (~im10ninja@81-6-225-91.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[14:08] * jabawok_ (~srob99@203-59-105-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #freenet
[14:08] * jabawok (~srob99@203-59-164-47.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:09] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) has joined #freenet
[14:09] <toad_> <jabawok_h2> 5089 "plus" Uptime: 0 days, 5 hours, 19 minutes
[14:09] <toad_> <jabawok_h2> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit)138 (119/19/200)
[14:09] <toad_> <jabawok_h2> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving)597 (15/582)
[14:09] <toad_> <jabawok_h2> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator16
[14:09] <toad_> woah
[14:10] <salahx> damn
[14:10] <greycat> 8-O
[14:10] <salahx> tha'ts insane
[14:10] <salahx> thern agian...
[14:10] <salahx> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 382 (76/306)
[14:10] <toad_> <KenMan> "The Birth of a Network" -> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jkcorson/FreeNet/5089c.png
[14:10] <toad_> <KenMan> It doesn't necessarily mean anything to me, but I will draw the picture anyway.
[14:10] <toad_> <KenMan> It is still quite early in the game to analyze this network. I wouldn't say that queries oscillate, but in my opinion, they { "randomly happen to" / "are allowed to" } rise too much too quickly...
[14:10] <toad_> uhhh
[14:11] <toad_> they do oscillate
[14:11] <salahx> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 71
[14:11] <toad_> from that graph :<
[14:11] * jabawok_h2 (~rob@203-59-164-47.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:12] <toad_> hold on a minute
[14:12] <toad_> KenMan: here?
[14:12] * toad_ STUPID
[14:12] * toad_ just figured out way to stop oscillations!
[14:12] <michaelkuijn> Eureka!
[14:12] <verl> tell us!
[14:13] <toad_> globalQuota... we don't want to set it to exactly the number we can fit in the outbound limit
[14:13] * michaelkuijn theatrically holds breath
[14:13] <toad_> but we DO want to cap it at the number we can fit in the outbound limit
[14:13] <verl> this will be a quick fix no?
[14:13] * toad_ not totally sure about it being a quick fix
[14:13] <toad_> but probably
[14:14] <toad_> prevent it oscillating way up anyway
[14:14] <verl> well i'm glad you figured it out
[14:15] <toad_> KenMan has a silly question - could abandoned inserts cause the number of incoming xfers to go/stay high ?? - good question. i don't think it's the only cause if it is a cause...
[14:17] <salahx> i'm nto doing any inserts though...
[14:18] <Lux> Uptime: 59 minutes
[14:18] <Lux> but it has been up since yesterday
[14:18] <Lux> i had to reboot my lappy inbetween to use PCMCIA
[14:18] <Lux> but otherwise its been on
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> Error: Route Not Found
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> Attempts were made to contact 0 nodes.
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> Attempts were made to contact 0 nodes.
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> 0 were totally unreachable.
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> 0 restarted.
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> 0 cleanly rejected.
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> 0 backed off.
[14:18] <Lux> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 102 (65/37/200)
[14:18] <Lux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 28 (17/11)
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> the node has over 100 connections
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> running for a day
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> 5089
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> no related error logs
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> how can be that no node is attempted?
[14:18] <toad_> <Janete> is it normal?
[14:18] * oierw (mathew@cpe-69-75-126-12.hawaii.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[14:19] <toad_> <michaelkuijn> Have the good seednodes?
[14:19] <toad_> <Janete> yep
[14:19] <toad_> <Janete> and a later request has worked
[14:19] <Lux> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 11
[14:19] <toad_> <Janete> I just wonder why sometimes this happens
[14:19] <toad_> two possibilities:
[14:19] <Lux> so um 11/11 :P
[14:19] <toad_> 1. they're not all conns we can talk to i.e. 5089's
[14:19] <toad_> 2. bug (hard to reproduce, but hinted at often)
[14:20] <Lux> OT: http://0chan.net/w/src/1091637534129.jpg
[14:22] * pwk__ (~phweak@dsl-62-3-71-168.zen.co.uk) Quit ("leaving")
[14:22] <salahx> why are there non-5089 in my RT, anyway?
[14:22] <toad_> <hobx> any phone with internet and j2me can do irc apparently - which phones have j2me? the expensive ones with big color screens?
[14:23] <toad_> <KenMan> I have a technical question for the toad (or anyone else who can answer)... - when a node has to retry due to RNF (up to 2 or 3 times), does the backoffCount for that routing log the backoff to the first attempt, or last attempt, or what ?? - uh, total number of backoffs i think
[14:26] <toad_> <greycat> jayo: /msg nickserv ghost jay [yourpass] - what's ghost? i know recover..
[14:26] <hobx> toad_: Most phones as of the last year can. So even the cheap Siemans for instance.
[14:27] <hobx> But without decent resolution screen, IRC won't be much fun.
[14:28] <toad_> <hobx> toad_: Most phones as of the last year can. So even the cheap Siemans for instance. - my nokia thingy with querty keyboard?
[14:28] <toad_> :)
[14:28] <hobx> funny. I forgot my root password while on vacation, so I had to crack the machine and change (remembered the BIOS password luckily). Now I wanted to get root and typed "su ....." < old password without even thinking about it..
[14:29] * toad_ will try it what was the url?
[14:29] <toad_> it's an applet?
[14:29] <hobx> http://wirelessirc.sourceforge.net/
[14:29] <hobx> not applet
[14:29] <toad_> then how do i get to it?
[14:29] <hobx> call phone app (jad file)
[14:30] * Lux has 3650 :D
[14:30] <hobx> just download the jad file with your phone.
[14:30] <toad_> heh, it has to dial a number to connect to the inet...
[14:31] <hobx> well, obviously you are going to need GPRS for it work
[14:31] <toad_> file format unknown
[14:31] <hobx> I guess your phone doesn't have java
[14:31] <toad_> apparently so
[14:31] <toad_> oh well
[14:32] <toad_> it was supposed to have email too
[14:32] <toad_> but that changed and i couldn't be bothered to set it up new through their gateway
[14:32] <hobx> This one can do email fine. But not SSL.
[14:33] <toad_> hmmm
[14:33] <toad_> i can do ssl
[14:33] <toad_> at least it has settings re certificates
[14:33] <toad_> wierd
[14:33] <hobx> This is a Nokia 9100 or something?
[14:33] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> toad, dude-of-my-critiques!
[14:34] <toad_> it doesn't say what it is
[14:34] <Lux> i mean 6820
[14:34] <Lux> lol
[14:34] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I hoped you appreciated my last posts :-)
[14:34] <toad_> it has a black and white screen and a qwerty keyboard
[14:34] <toad_> and i got it for 1/3rd the original retail price
[14:35] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> bought something?
[14:35] <toad_> Newsbyte: we were just debating IRC over cellphone
[14:35] <hobx> is it like a phone that flips up to a mini laptop?
[14:35] <toad_> hobx: no, it doesn't flip
[14:35] <galt> toad_: ahh, a Communicator?
[14:36] <Lux> i like mine
[14:36] <galt> talk about chicklet-keys
[14:36] <hobx> Find out what model it is.
[14:36] <Lux> http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,54514,00.html
[14:36] <toad_> hobx: how?
[14:37] <toad_> not that one, that has a color screen, and camera
[14:37] <hobx> I dunno. The "Phone Status" option says on mine.
[14:37] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> one day, when the sun almost explodes, we well be talking about a good working Freenet over cellphone
[14:37] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> /me has a dream
[14:37] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ;-)
[14:38] <Lux> file format unknown grr
[14:38] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> 89 is going reasonably well, as yet, toad
[14:38] <michaelkuijn> toad_, I think you will be happy to hear (maybe less happier than if I donated it) that I've spent 60 euros on memory strips today just for Freenet.
[14:38] <toad_> michaelkuijn: :)
[14:39] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> cool, Michael
[14:39] <michaelkuijn> I discovered why my HD was grinding... I should have known earlier. It was the swap - owch
[14:39] <galt> hmmm, I really wonder.....
[14:39] <hobx> are there any other apps like "stunnel"
[14:39] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I, however, just asked toad for it ;-)
[14:39] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> lol
[14:39] <galt> j2me isn't THAT different than j2se
[14:40] <toad_> hmmm
[14:40] <toad_> galt: it can't be that similar, it fits in tiny devices
[14:40] <michaelkuijn> I just read about 'Entropy'. What is the relation between Entropy and Freenet?
[14:40] <toad_> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 57 (36/21)
[14:40] <greycat> hobx: I think there's an "sslwrap"
[14:40] <toad_> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 20
[14:40] <toad_> hmmm
[14:40] <galt> and the phones will prolly have their own JVMs, substantially smaller admittedly
[14:40] <toad_> difference of 1 after many hours uptime hrrm
[14:40] <hobx> Back in the old days I looked at it and it seemed completely possible to make freenet j2me. We have home rolled almost everything anyways.
[14:40] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> small chunks...
[14:41] <toad_> hobx: maybe, but a device big enough to run freenet could run j2se
[14:41] <galt> michaelkuijn: a dead fork, basically freenet written in C
[14:41] <michaelkuijn> Dead?
[14:41] * verl has a diffrence of 30 :)
[14:41] <toad_> michaelkuijn: with crappy home-grown crypto
[14:41] <michaelkuijn> Mmm
[14:41] <hobx> I don't think entropy was a fork.
[14:41] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> now, now, let's not be too harsh
[14:41] <toad_> no, it wasn't a fork
[14:42] <michaelkuijn> Didn't seem like it
[14:42] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> does it still exist?
[14:42] <salahx> it borrowed lots of FReeenet-like concerpts, including the FCP protocol
[14:42] <hobx> It was more of a "The Freenet people suck, we could do this so much better our way" thing that found out the hard way that it isn't quite that simple.
[14:42] <toad_> salahx: their SSKs weren't really SSKs
[14:42] <michaelkuijn> Go on
[14:42] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> maybe it didn't have enough people giving critique, what you think, toad? ;-)
[14:42] <toad_> it didn't help that they used their own crypto algos
[14:42] <hobx> stupid debian stable doesn't have stunnel
[14:43] <galt> hobx: don't they make ssh for communicators?
[14:43] <toad_> hobx: you're on stable? woah
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> * net-misc/stunnel
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> Latest version available: 4.04-r1
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> Size of downloaded files: 301 kB
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> Homepage: http://stunnel.mirt.net
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> Description: TLS/SSL - Port Wrapper
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> License: GPL-2
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> Hahah
[14:43] <michaelkuijn> (Really sorry for flood)
[14:43] <hobx> toad_: My gateway is. My workstation is on sid.
[14:44] <toad_> that makes sense
[14:44] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what you mean? I'm on stable too
[14:44] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> AND on unstable, for that matter
[14:44] <hobx> gall: I don't have a communicator. I have a dead standard phone of somewhat newer model. I thought Toad had a communicator.
[14:44] <michaelkuijn> The Nokia Communicators? They're nice...
[14:44] <galt> ahh, I knew I was missing something there...
[14:45] <galt> all I know ifs the first app my new palmphone gets is topgun ;)
[14:45] <toad_> no, i have a standard phone from ~ late 2002 that pretends to be a communicator for marketing purposes
[14:45] <toad_> :)
[14:45] <toad_> maybe late 2003, not sure
[14:49] <toad_> now, is it the same bug as it was yesterday?
[14:50] <toad_> looks like it...
[14:50] <toad_> a MuxTrailerReader that was never started...
[14:51] <toad_> strangely enough it's only received 1 packet
[14:53] <Lux> i like the EPOC OS
[14:56] * kork (~kork@cl-746.ham-01.de.sixxs.net) Quit ("leaving")
[14:56] * toad_ hmmm
[14:56] <toad_> i wish we could use weak references without causing problems...
[14:57] <salahx> why woud lweask references cause problems ?
[14:57] <toad_> last time i tried they did
[14:57] <Lux> what is a weak reference?
[14:57] <salahx> A "weak" reference is a referece that doesn't count as one of the purposed of the garbage collector
[14:57] <Lux> and should i still use ur 5089 toad?
[14:58] <toad_> aha
[14:58] <toad_> i think i've found it...
[14:59] <toad_> at least i've located where it was created...
[15:13] <toad_> Lux: will it produce a difference reasonably quickly?
[15:14] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Connection timed out)
[15:14] <toad_> i'm going to send you a better 5089 soon
[15:16] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> make it 5090
[15:16] <Lux> toad_: ill check now but last night it didnt seem to
[15:17] <hobx> ah. Now mail is working too.
[15:17] <verl> i'm 55/90 now, only getting bigger
[15:17] <toad_> hmmm
[15:17] <hobx> pretty nifty these devices
[15:17] <salahx> far worse here
[15:17] <toad_> well, i think i've solved the main part of it
[15:17] <salahx> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 346 (56/290)
[15:17] <toad_> but we still get a few messups because of dropped AnnouncementExecute's etc
[15:18] <salahx> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 47
[15:18] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> you solved the bug you created? ;-)
[15:18] <Lux> toad_: 43/36
[15:18] <Lux> toad_: 2hr uptime
[15:18] <toad_> Newsbyte: no, this is pretty old afaics
[15:19] <toad_> at least as old as muxing
[15:19] <salahx> 20hrs here
[15:19] <toad_> arguably it goes way back beyond that to oskar's time
[15:19] <toad_> Lux: okay, i'll send you my current jar
[15:19] <toad_> Lux: dcc?
[15:19] <toad_> meanwhile i'll try to fix the remaining stuff
[15:19] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> is the bug so big, as to have seriously hampered the working of Freenet?
[15:19] <toad_> Newsbyte: no
[15:19] <toad_> unfortunately not
[15:20] <toad_> but it will hamper efforts to find out what the fsck is happening on freenet/to freenet
[15:21] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what? was it a log-thingy?
[15:21] <salahx> BTW, what abotu there "fixKeys added sun.nio.ch.SelectionKeyImpl@c337f" thingys ?
[15:22] <salahx> my log is already 1.3 GB becasue of those...
[15:22] <verl> aa! transfers are growing too much, taking all my cpu
[15:22] <toad_> salahx: I'm going to remove them
[15:22] <verl> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 136 (42/94)
[15:22] <toad_> verl: it's fake
[15:22] <toad_> the receiving number is a bug
[15:22] <toad_> it's not really that high
[15:22] <toad_> want to test a jar for me?
[15:22] <toad_> can you receive dcc?
[15:22] <verl> yes, yes
[15:27] <hobx> anybody here run courier-imap?
[15:27] <salahx> i do
[15:28] <hobx> you know how to configure it to have a different password for mail then the users system password?
[15:28] <Lux> 49/49
[15:28] <salahx> yes
[15:29] <salahx> you'll have to sue the sasldb
[15:29] <hobx> now, I think we can settle this without lawyers!
[15:29] <salahx> and change the auth modepuile, I beleuive is uses sasl_pam buy default
[15:30] <Lux> its a shame we cant get akamai to fund this project eh?
[15:33] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> who needs akamai when toad works so cheap? ;-)
[15:33] <Lux> lol
[15:33] <Lux> well they could sure give us some bandwidth
[15:33] <Lux> dont u think?
[15:34] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I think, therefor I am
[15:35] <greycat> I think I think, therefore I think I am.
[15:35] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> LOL! Someone on Freenet called me 'the worst troll evah'...clearly, he hasn't been to Slashdot ;-)
[15:38] <michaelkuijn> Someone called me (Lost Floppy) an impostor.
[15:39] <salahx> or Frost :)
[15:39] <michaelkuijn> Uhoh. Privacy breach. Realname and Handle are now linked ;-)
[15:42] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I will duely note that in my secretservice booklet under the heading 'who to put in prison without any legal rights'
[15:43] <verl> toad: were there anything else new expect datastate/transfer thing in the jar?
[15:44] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> how is the small-chunk thingy coming along?
[15:46] <salahx> i think that's on the back burner currently
[15:46] <Lux> toad_: My node reports: 25/25
[15:59] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (".")
[15:59] * michaelkuijn is enjoying a good glass of Cuarenta y Tres
[16:04] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> is that spanish for 'dog piss'?
[16:04] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ;-)
[16:05] <michaelkuijn> You wish. It is spanish for the numer 43
[16:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hmm..tres..isn't that '3'?
[16:05] <michaelkuijn> Liquor number 43
[16:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> woohoo! had it half right!
[16:06] * ninja_ (im10ninjas@82.133.105.179) has joined #freenet
[16:06] <michaelkuijn> It's a Vanilla Liquor
[16:06] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> sounds good
[16:07] * greycat_ (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) has joined #freenet
[16:07] <michaelkuijn> This afternoon I had a good Crema Catalana - which tastes like cheap bubble gum. I think it's supposed to taste like 'flan' a kind of baked custard.
[16:07] * greycat (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[16:07] * greycat_ is now known as greycat
[16:08] <michaelkuijn> This happens *a lot* to greycat lately
[16:08] <greycat> can't blame freenet for this one. I'm at work, no freenet nodes here.
[16:08] <michaelkuijn> iip_i2p, I am wondering, why do you appear like "<iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ... " ?
[16:09] <salahx> iip_i2p is a relay bot
[16:09] <michaelkuijn> I see
[16:09] <michaelkuijn> Why would you want to do that?
[16:09] <salahx> its relays everything from #freenet on IIP to #freenet on Freenode
[16:09] <greycat> it relays comments from another network to this one
[16:10] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> indeed, an anonymous network
[16:12] <toad_> <michaelkuijn> Uhoh. Privacy breach. Realname and Handle are now linked ;-) - you're here, aren't you? with your OWN IP !
[16:12] * ninja_ (im10ninjas@82.133.105.179) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[16:12] <toad_> <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> how is the small-chunk thingy coming along?
[16:12] <toad_> <salahx> i think that's on the back burner currently
[16:12] <toad_> it is
[16:12] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> who? me?
[16:12] <toad_> it would take at least a month to implement all of it
[16:12] <toad_> because of the client side issues
[16:13] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> backburners suck
[16:13] <toad_> it IS worthwhile eventually, but I'm trying to solve the immediate issues first
[16:13] <michaelkuijn> I am SUCH A DICK. Knocking over a liquor on my desk. FUK
[16:13] <salahx> and besides, sicne htat change is basically goign to blow up all of Freenet, might as well lump in everything esle that goign ot break it anyway :)
[16:13] * ninja_ (im10ninjas@82.133.105.179) has joined #freenet
[16:13] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> michael: you are not a dick, just drunk ;-)
[16:14] <michaelkuijn> Arghh. The carrying band of my mirror reflex camera is all sticky now....
[16:16] <michaelkuijn> Thank a deity it wasn't my intellimouse, or worse - my ipod
[16:16] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> better drink pure alcohol, next time; then it would be cleansed
[16:16] <toad_> hmmm
[16:16] <salahx> like Everclear ?
[16:16] <toad_> how's fproxy lately?
[16:16] <salahx> RNF'ing
[16:17] <salahx> though I was downlading some pplitfiels though
[16:17] <michaelkuijn> iip_i2p, no option. I only like woman's drinks like Baileys Cream
[16:18] <michaelkuijn> What about absinthe?
[16:19] * Lux (~Lux@82-37-17-24.cable.ubr03.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[16:23] <toad_> so, i wonder if there's a similar bug with the transmitting count?
[16:24] <salahx> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 338 (47/291)
[16:24] <salahx> nto sure if transfers number is reasonable or not
[16:24] <salahx> Recieveing DEFIANTELY isn;t though
[16:24] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ("Leaving")
[16:25] <toad_> sending... well what's your outputBandwidthLimit?
[16:27] <salahx> 12288
[16:27] <toad_> Current probability of a request succeeding 0.5%
[16:27] <toad_> hmmm
[16:27] * toad_ not sure that stat is accurate...
[16:28] <salahx> brb restart
[16:28] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> actually i don't understand how you expect the larger part of the community to switch to 5089. There's no information on the website, the new version is not indicated in fproxy. People will not be able to get information in frost, since the networks are separated.
[16:28] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) Quit ()
[16:28] <toad_> mule2p: it was supposed to be indicated on fproxy
[16:28] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> I think a little more advertisement is needed this time
[16:28] <michaelkuijn> a poiint
[16:29] <toad_> but i agree there should be an announcement on the web site
[16:29] * Lux (~Lux@82-37-17-24.cable.ubr03.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[16:29] <Lux> sorry, box died
[16:29] <Lux> lol
[16:29] <Lux> The both values are still equal though
[16:29] <Lux> (my desktop died, my laptop is running Freenet)
[16:30] <michaelkuijn> Gosh... too drunk to even mop my desk. Somehow my typing skills always stay
[16:30] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> how does fproxy decide to inform about a new version? Does that work if networks don't know about each other?
[16:30] <Lux> oh, and as a side note, i found out that if u have pieces of a WMV video missing, padding it out with 0's to the size needed for the missing piece, works.
[16:31] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) has joined #freenet
[16:31] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> should I build a 5088 node and call it 5089, so it is recognized in the old network :)
[16:37] * greycat (~wooledg@192.35.79.70) Quit ("Lick Bush in '04")
[16:38] <michaelkuijn> jikm789ujb
[16:38] <michaelkuijn> ij-jnbiyfh`wssftrg b kfy\
[16:38] <michaelkuijn> yujcvb nm,kl;'
[16:38] <michaelkuijn> k
[16:39] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> toad: I just checked again, my 5088 node does not yet know about 5089. and it should be well connected, located at an ISP and with 40gb datastore.
[16:40] * sanity|mob (~sanity|mo@ti100710a080-5113.bb.online.no) Quit (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds)
[16:40] <galt> mule2p nor will it: 5089 is a force-break
[16:40] <Lux> toad_: 11/11
[16:40] * michaelkuijn was cleaning his keyboard
[16:41] <galt> unless a LOT's happened in my year off, the only way you'll know is when your node completely fails to connect
[16:42] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> galt: that's what i expected. but most node operators won't know about 5089 that way. not everybody hangs out here.
[16:44] * oierw` (mathew@cpe-69-75-126-12.hawaii.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[16:45] <Lux> freenet needs some sort of secure update facility?
[16:45] <Lux> lol
[16:45] <Lux> wait..
[16:45] <Lux> why not just put something on the main page?
[16:45] <michaelkuijn> Is iip_i2p a proxy for Invisible IRC?
[16:45] <Lux> "UPGRADE TO 5089 NOW"
[16:45] <galt> well, force-breaks have propagated before, they will again. I'm sure sanity and toad are looking for ideas how to notify of updates
[16:45] <galt> michaelkuijn: yes
[16:45] <michaelkuijn> Notify the guy who writes TFE, and everyone will upgrade
[16:45] <michaelkuijn> No! CofE
[16:46] <Lux> why cant the main page
[16:46] <Lux> display that>
[16:46] <Lux> ?
[16:46] <michaelkuijn> No net connection
[16:46] <michaelkuijn> It's static
[16:46] <Lux> Apart from obtaining images back
[16:46] <galt> TFE and CofE usually are the first to adopt new builds, making any new updates not viewable from the old nodes
[16:46] <Lux> from the link sites
[16:47] <Lux> cant we just have an image box that says "LATEST VERSION IS"
[16:47] <michaelkuijn> IRC - check. FROST - check. MAILING LIST - ?. TFE - no. CofE - no.
[16:47] <michaelkuijn> We need a bridge for networks
[16:47] <michaelkuijn> A hybrid node which shares its datastore over all three nets
[16:47] * asimmons500 (~chatzilla@207-224-114-110.spkn.qwest.net) has joined #freenet
[16:48] * TLF (francisco@45.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) has joined #freenet
[16:49] <salahx> the netowrk are sperate for a reason...
[16:49] <salahx> msot of the major freesite authours inserts onto both anyway
[16:50] * oierw (mathew@cpe-69-75-126-12.hawaii.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[16:50] * asimmons500 (~chatzilla@207-224-114-110.spkn.qwest.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:51] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[16:53] <toad_> <iip_i2p> <mule2p> toad: I just checked again, my 5088 node does not yet know about 5089. and it should be well connected, located at an ISP and with 40gb datastore.
[16:53] <toad_> Signoff: sanity|mob (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds)
[16:53] <toad_> <galt> mule2p nor will it: 5089 is a force-break
[16:53] <toad_> hmmm
[16:53] <toad_> it might
[16:53] <toad_> or it might not
[16:53] <toad_> it depends...
[16:53] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> toss a coin! ;-)
[16:53] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> it did not
[16:54] <toad_> :(
[16:54] <toad_> well in theory old nodes should see a few new nodes
[16:54] <galt> toad_: ahh, something's changed then?
[16:54] <toad_> maybe not enough to notify of the new build
[16:54] <toad_> galt: hmm?
[16:54] <toad_> anyway i'll put a notice on the web site after i've finished the current stuff
[16:55] <toad_> unless somebody else wants to
[16:55] <toad_> if you have cvs access you are able to...
[16:55] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> toad: i'm just building a 5088 node with 5089 version info and bring that alive on the old net. any objections?
[16:55] <galt> toad_: last time I casred, force-upgrades had to be notified out-of-band
[16:55] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
[16:55] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> will it help to announce?
[16:55] <salahx> acutaly maybe not
[16:56] <salahx> Unless the node gets several 5089's it won;t dispaly it
[16:56] <toad_> galt: this time i did lastGoodBuild rather than upping the protocol version
[16:56] <toad_> so old nodes should see it
[16:56] <toad_> but only if they get several 5089s
[16:56] <toad_> bbl
[16:57] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> how many is several?
[16:59] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> i didn't want to spend a few weeks on that matter :)
[17:01] <Lux> toad_: 35/35
[17:01] <Lux> toad_: so far so good :thumbsup:
[17:30] <Lux> ~silence~
[17:30] <salahx> dyep
[17:30] <Lux> is "Beating around the Bush" any good?
[17:31] <salahx> ?
[17:31] <Lux> 40/40
[17:31] <Lux> SSK@NQxwVwuNGQcNqMCMFACJ8BngoJoPAgM/BeatingBush/9//BB1.html
[17:32] <salahx> lemme chek it out
[17:32] <Lux> DNFs
[17:32] <Lux> darn
[17:33] <salahx> got the page, waiting for the pics now
[17:33] <Lux> working now yea
[17:34] * ShaunMacPherson (~ShaunMac@Sudbury-HSE-ppp3981095.sympatico.ca) has joined #freenet
[17:35] <Lux> stilll waiting for images :p
[17:36] * Tailchaser (~tailchase@pool-68-162-16-41.nwrk.east.verizon.net) has joined #freenet
[17:38] <salahx> I'm RNFing now
[17:38] <toad_> hi
[17:39] <Lux> heh toad_
[17:39] <Lux> still stable
[17:39] <toad_> cool!
[17:39] <toad_> i'll have a new jar for you to test soon
[17:39] <toad_> which will hopefully become 5089
[17:39] <toad_> well, it might be that it's only part of 5089
[17:40] <Lux> lol
[17:40] <Lux> another one :p
[17:40] <toad_> it's mostly unrelated changes - a merge
[17:40] <Lux> i aint got no complaints about this one *yet*
[17:41] <toad_> you don't mind, do you? :)
[17:42] <Lux> nope
[17:42] <Lux> lol
[17:42] <Lux> what changes then will be in it?
[17:42] <toad_> you've been volunteered for pre-5089 beta testing
[17:43] <Lux> lol thats nice to know :p
[17:43] <toad_> i haven't made a full list yet
[17:43] <toad_> i've been merging stuff both ways... which is a little tricky but at least it's more interesting than the usual
[17:43] <Lux> ok
[17:43] <toad_> (merging one way)
[17:43] <Lux> so what should i expect to happen?
[17:45] <toad_> hopefully the jar will be slightly smaller
[17:45] <toad_> it will react better to bad config files
[17:45] <toad_> logging is improved
[17:45] <toad_> a few other things
[17:45] <toad_> err pre-5090
[17:45] <toad_> this will be 5090
[17:45] <Lux> ok
[17:46] <galt> do I detect my bumbling hand in theis? ;P
[17:46] <toad_> the padding interval will be reduced slightly
[17:46] <toad_> galt: hrrm?
[17:46] * Lux is unsure to try after galt made that remark :p
[17:46] <Lux> (joke)
[17:47] <toad_> new stats...
[17:47] <toad_> minor html fixes...
[17:47] <galt> toad_: the "resistant to bad config files", because I screwed up mine? ;)
[17:47] <salahx> ist been a LNG standing bug
[17:47] <toad_> fixed the node renaming bug
[17:47] <toad_> galt: :)
[17:47] <toad_> salahx: what?
[17:47] <toad_> oh
[17:48] <toad_> config files yes
[17:48] <Lux> as an idea for the Build update, how about some kind of release schedule?
[17:48] <toad_> very very long standing
[17:48] <toad_> hmmm
[17:48] <toad_> do we want to include reduction in messageSendTime thresholds?
[17:49] <toad_> what about the lockfile support?
[17:49] * toad_ thinks the very long timescale rate limiting is probably a good idea...
[17:49] <Lux> ahhh
[17:50] <Lux> can u get the "Open Connections" screen
[17:50] <Lux> to default to the NON-massive browser freezing one with all the images?
[17:50] <toad_> why shouldn't i be able to?
[17:50] <toad_> ah
[17:50] <Lux> plz Sir
[17:50] <Lux> :D
[17:50] <toad_> yes, will do
[17:50] <toad_> since muxing, the by peers version is no longer vital
[17:51] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs6669187-74.houston.rr.com) has joined #freenet
[17:51] <Lux> t/y
[17:51] <toad_> hmmm, new rate limiting (while keeping old)...
[17:51] <toad_> possibly a good idea...
[17:55] * TLF (francisco@45.Red-81-40-116.pooles.rima-tde.net) Quit ("http://www.vitaliano.esp.cc || Adi?s a todos y a todas y que les vaya bien.")
[17:56] <toad_> bug in reading in global routing data (as opposed to per node)
[17:58] <toad_> okay, first we commit to unstable...
[17:59] <toad_> that which has already proved itself on pseudo-stable
[17:59] * toad_ will have to generate a changelog for this...
[18:01] <toad_> unfortunately i don't really have the horsepower to properly test unstable at the same time
[18:01] <toad_> so some of this will go in untested
[18:01] <toad_> but it is unstable after all ;)
[18:01] <michaelkuijn> toad_, what would you say about the idea of a mobile phone system based on the freenet principles?
[18:02] <toad_> michaelkuijn: what do you mean by a mobile phone system?
[18:02] <michaelkuijn> With as medium not the real internet, but the ETHER.
[18:02] <toad_> do you mean routing calls?
[18:02] <toad_> or data?
[18:02] <michaelkuijn> Routing messages
[18:02] <michaelkuijn> That is like 'press while talking'
[18:02] <toad_> hmmm
[18:02] <michaelkuijn> That would be the cryptophone on steroids!
[18:03] <toad_> dunno
[18:03] <toad_> imho freenet needs to learn... it can't "just work"...
[18:03] <michaelkuijn> Ah... the AI
[18:04] <michaelkuijn> But the ether has some advantages
[18:04] <michaelkuijn> Nodes can measure geographical distance between them
[18:04] <galt> the problem is you won't know _a priori_ who your nearest neighbor is
[18:04] <michaelkuijn> Nodes can find each other without an initial seednodes file
[18:05] <galt> then you've lost anonymity
[18:05] <michaelkuijn> Say, a node has a weak transmitter. It send outs some 'hello'.
[18:05] <michaelkuijn> Nodes near who receive the call reply, distance is measured (not direction) and voila
[18:06] <galt> hmmm, straight SOL computation...
[18:06] <michaelkuijn> Including gps would be a *very* bad idea btw
[18:06] <galt> a LOT easier than half the distancing systems out there
[18:06] <galt> the problem is a bad actor could do DF
[18:07] <michaelkuijn> Anyone familiar with the cryptophone?
[18:07] <ejhuff> toad_: perhaps make a jar which has Version=5089 but lastgoodbuild=5084. Have a few people run it for a while, to ensure that the Web Interface page lists the new build number on the old builds.
[18:07] <Lux> yea
[18:07] <michaelkuijn> http://www.detectnu.nl/shop/product_info.php/products_id/714
[18:07] <Lux> Freenet Phone: dials 999 in emergency
[18:07] <Lux> gets a RNF
[18:07] <Lux> :p
[18:07] <michaelkuijn> It's not meant for that
[18:08] <michaelkuijn> Mmm. I think the cryptophone (Cryptofoon) is a Dutch product
[18:09] <michaelkuijn> Challenge - response I think
[18:09] <galt> lux worse, a DNF
[18:10] <michaelkuijn> By the way, I think everyone should read this: http://localhost:8888/SSK%40jPvCDcvc-mVxWiWYoAyg41VTKl8PAgM,a3oFwQKj3AsVv~aZ8r7Vvg/TheArtofDeception//
[18:10] <michaelkuijn> It's good stuff
[18:11] <michaelkuijn> Pfff. My iPod won't 'hop on'
[18:11] <michaelkuijn> Firewire & Linux: Hit-or-miss
[18:12] <michaelkuijn> A Question: Do I miss messages if I close FROST?
[18:12] <toad_> michaelkuijn: it's also illegal ;)
[18:13] <michaelkuijn> I think I will keep my comp on overnight
[18:13] <michaelkuijn> The second time...
[18:14] <michaelkuijn> Last night was the first time I had kept my comp on and managed to sleep.
[18:14] <galt> BTDT
[18:14] <michaelkuijn> Somehow I couldn't get to sleep with the thing on, I think it's something psychological - but last night: success.
[18:15] <galt> michaelkuijn: I meant AOD
[18:15] <toad_> michaelkuijn: you can't displace it?
[18:15] <toad_> my computer lives in a closet under the stairs
[18:16] <toad_> thanks to some long cables it's accessed from my bedroom
[18:16] <galt> yeah, that's why they make xterms or vt100s
[18:16] <toad_> galt: not likely to run warcraft 3 on an x terminal :)
[18:16] * Lux learn to sleep with whitenoise
[18:16] <galt> toad_: oaky wyse guy ;)
[18:17] <galt> (and yes, wyse makes winterms now)
[18:17] * verl can't sleep without the computer on, his brain creates filler noise which is more annoying
[18:18] <Lux> lol
[18:18] <Lux> i turned my computer off before
[18:18] <Lux> one night
[18:18] <Lux> and it was so strange
[18:18] <Lux> the silence was so deafening
[18:18] <Lux> i couldnt sleep :p
[18:18] <michaelkuijn> I know the sound
[18:19] <michaelkuijn> My comp lives nicely under my desk - just 1.5 metres from my bed ;-) But that's not the problem. It's a Medion - a silent sucker.
[18:20] <michaelkuijn> toad_, how do you replace floppies?
[18:20] * michaelkuijn got mail
[18:20] <michaelkuijn> toad_, its yours ;-)
[18:20] <galt> michaelkuijn: tape robots ;)
[18:21] <verl> toad: it hasn't deviated yet, 60/60, looks like you got it
[18:21] <Lux> same here
[18:21] <Lux> :)
[18:21] <Lux> 26/26
[18:21] <Lux> last time i checked
[18:21] <michaelkuijn> toad_, ICTUS? The fish?
[18:21] <Lux> like 3 mins ago
[18:21] * toad_ (toad@82-32-16-91.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.10")
[18:21] * lolo-laptop (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) Quit ("Client exiting")
[18:22] <michaelkuijn> Where'd toad go?
[18:22] * toad_ (toad@82-32-16-91.cable.ubr03.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #freenet
[18:22] <Lux> wb toad
[18:23] <toad_> grrr
[18:23] <Lux> what happened?
[18:23] <toad_> after a while, X refuses to open any top level windows
[18:23] <Lux> um weird
[18:23] <toad_> combined with the fact that ksirc occasionally hangs
[18:23] <toad_> you see?
[18:23] <Lux> my X died b4
[18:23] <toad_> the wierd thing is it lets me open non-top-level windows
[18:23] <michaelkuijn> toad_, a KDE man?
[18:23] * toad_ thinks it must be a KDE thing
[18:23] <toad_> michaelkuijn: yup
[18:23] <toad_> both bugs are in KDE :<
[18:24] * michaelkuijn shakes hands
[18:24] * Lux uses xchat-2
[18:24] * michaelkuijn too
[18:24] <toad_> maybe gnome is more stable (KDE is better in other respects)
[18:24] <verl> re, 60/60, even if it is fixed, am i supposed to have twice as many reciving as transmitting?
[18:24] <michaelkuijn> I use xchat with metatheme-plastik... very nice
[18:24] <toad_> also KDE's printer wizard doesn't seem to work with SMB authentication
[18:24] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> michaelkuijn: somebody on i2p is working on that. might be better suited for the task than freenet.
[18:24] <michaelkuijn> kioslaves... shouldn't be a difference?
[18:25] <toad_> mule2p: working on what?
[18:25] <michaelkuijn> Yes what?
[18:25] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> sorry, was back in time up the messages :) a phone system
[18:25] <michaelkuijn> mule2p, nice
[18:25] <galt> mule2p now if only there were an IIP client for mobiles ;)
[18:26] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> over an anonymous encrypted channel
[18:26] <toad_> oh and finally the consoles get some corruption
[18:26] <toad_> mule2p: can't you just run an off the shelf internet phone thingy over i2p?
[18:26] <Lux> id just wish they would bring out a bluetooth connection from mobile to computer
[18:26] <michaelkuijn> Sidenote: It's 00:44 now where I am - head banging - a couple more hours and I'll start hallucinating.
[18:26] <Lux> so u can use broadband when ur at home
[18:26] <Lux> on the phone
[18:26] <Lux> ie from computer to phone
[18:27] <michaelkuijn> VoADSL seems nice
[18:28] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> toad, don't know. but an internet phone won't know about i2p destinations.
[18:28] <toad_> mule2p: i suppose so
[18:29] <toad_> can't you just use the user-space IP driver stuff?
[18:29] <toad_> there's some kernel module you can use to do a user-space ethernet driver
[18:29] <toad_> universal tap support or something
[18:29] <toad_> can't you just assign IPs on 10.x.y.z and use that?
[18:30] <toad_> on linux anyway?
[18:30] * toad_ hopes he isn't undermining his job here by giving i2p the killer idea ;)
[18:30] <toad_> somebody would have thought of it eventually...
[18:31] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> toad: unfortunately i'm the wrong to ask. just throw it in, since i found the matter discussed here. look for aum, if memory serves me right.
[18:31] <toad_> mule2p: pass it on then :)
[18:31] * toad_ is busy hacking freenet :)
[18:31] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> threw
[18:31] <michaelkuijn> I really admire toad
[18:32] <toad_> michaelkuijn: why?
[18:33] <michaelkuijn> What do you think?
[18:33] <toad_> not bitching about i2p?
[18:33] <toad_> so far the unstable code SEEMS to work...
[18:33] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> toad: maybe there could be a proxy. but having it as a direct i2p client gives the benefit that nobody even knows you're phoning. but i'm stopping off topic discussion now :)
[18:34] <michaelkuijn> No, because what you do for the project
[18:34] <toad_> well, i do get paid
[18:34] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> indeed!
[18:34] <michaelkuijn> That's nice
[18:35] <salahx> In the lossest sene of the term...
[18:35] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I admire toad to, but with moderation ;-)
[18:35] * toad_ is putting a CHK which I would like somebody on unstable to fetch when i've finished
[18:35] <toad_> i will show the CHK
[18:36] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I express my moderation with critiques. So, toad knows how hugely I admire him
[18:36] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> lol
[18:36] <toad_> lol
[18:36] <michaelkuijn> I'm going to sleep
[18:36] <michaelkuijn> 'bye
[18:36] <toad_> seeya
[18:36] * michaelkuijn (~michaelku@fia41-111.dsl.hccnet.nl) Quit ()
[18:37] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> sleep well
[18:37] <Lux> night
[18:37] <Lux> o hes gone :p
[18:37] <Lux> so when is this update toad_?
[18:37] <Lux> ive gotta be up at 7:30am tomorrow so i may not be on as late tonight
[18:38] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes! It's been 12 hours without a new build already! You know we want one ech 2 hours!
[18:39] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> indeed
[18:40] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> so, all finished? all those nasty lil bugs squashed?
[18:41] <toad_> uh, is "Niklas and Friends" pornographic?
[18:42] <Lux> what is Niklas and Friends?
[18:42] <toad_> a freesite
[18:42] <toad_> mirror of some comic probably
[18:42] <Lux> ok
[18:42] <Lux> why u ask?
[18:42] * toad_ attempts to avoid propagating filth, but needs some freesites he probably doesn't have in cache for testing
[18:43] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> lol! a pornographic comic? ;-)
[18:43] <galt> you know, hint hint, "worksafe" might be a good designator on CofE or TFE
[18:43] <toad_> NEVER!
[18:43] <toad_> :)
[18:43] * galt points newsbyte at Heavy Metal
[18:44] <Lux> lol try hitlers kids.. the description on TFE scared me away from freenet for months (sorry sarcasm there)
[18:44] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well, if it's a comic, it can't be illegal. Not even if it were childpornographic :-)
[18:44] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ermm...I think. Dunno, really
[18:44] <Lux> Newsbyte: it can be in Denmark
[18:45] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> What, a comic?
[18:45] <toad_> yup, just because it's drawn, doesn't mean it's legal
[18:45] <toad_> in the US
[18:45] <toad_> probably in the UK
[18:45] <galt> newsbyte in case you forgot "legal" doesn't imply "worksafe" ;)
[18:45] <toad_> one guy (paedo, just done a stretch) got done for some demented fantasies he wrote down
[18:46] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hmm...yeah, I'm not quite sure. But it seems to me making *drawings* illegal is a bit silly
[18:46] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> even if it's filthy drawings
[18:46] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> toad, how many nodes of a new version does it take until it is indicated in fproxy. oOo thought it was one, but i have one 5089 node now in the connections of a 5088 node and it is not indicated.
[18:46] <toad_> mule2p: 3 i think
[18:46] <toad_> but not sure
[18:47] <toad_> hmmm
[18:47] <toad_> suddenly, lots of rnfs...
[18:47] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> but come to think of it, it was on the news some time ago, about a painter that had depicted/drawn CP too, and he got in trouble for it
[18:47] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> so maybe it can be illegal
[18:47] <toad_> Couldn't retrieve key: SSK@NQxwVwuNGQcNqMCMFACJ8BngoJoPAgM/BeatingBush/9//
[18:47] <toad_> Hops To Live: 15
[18:47] <toad_> Error: Route Not Found
[18:47] <toad_> Attempts were made to contact 2 nodes.
[18:47] <toad_> * 0 were totally unreachable.
[18:47] <toad_> * 2 restarted.
[18:47] <toad_> * 0 cleanly rejected.
[18:47] <toad_> * 16 backed off.
[18:47] <Lux> ahh passed midnight here
[18:47] <toad_> hmmm
[18:47] <iip_i2p> <mule2p> toad: i would like to force indication of 5089 in fproxy, but don't know whether i'm strong enough.
[18:47] <Lux> ?
[18:47] <toad_> how can 2 restarteds use up all the HTL?
[18:48] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I'm not sure where I stand on this. But, if I want to remain consistent, then my major objection; harm to a kid isn't met if it's just a drawing or something
[18:49] <toad_> Newsbyte: the argument is that it creates demand
[18:49] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> so I could guess I could see it as free speech, of some sort
[18:49] <Lux> toad_: any media could have the same effect/
[18:49] <toad_> Lux: any media that depicts children in compromizing situations, yes
[18:50] <Lux> toad_: which to a degree, is partly true.
[18:50] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well...better that it creates demand for comics then the real thing, me thinks
[18:50] <toad_> that is precisely what the argument is in the US - people have been done for non-nude pictures
[18:50] <Lux> toad_: any media, child or not. Legal pornography could be said to cause men to be unfaithful to their wives, etc
[18:50] <toad_> Lux: adultery isn't illegal
[18:51] <Lux> toad_: in some countries it is
[18:51] <toad_> not in the UK or the US
[18:51] <salahx> Men and women have been cheatign well befiore pronogrpahy was invented :)
[18:51] <Lux> toad_: there is also the defence that imagery stops people from acting on it
[18:51] <toad_> if a country outlaws adultery, it's probably going to outlaw porn too
[18:51] <toad_> Lux: indeed
[18:51] <toad_> but not a very popular one
[18:51] <Lux> toad_: its as rationally founded.
[18:51] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> oh, you *mean* the real thing. I don't really subscribe much to that theory. If a depiction of something leads to actually doing so, then with all those violent films, we would be constantly murdering eachother
[18:52] <Lux> Newsbyte: in defence of that however, Violence in films, is merely that A depiction
[18:52] <Lux> Newsbyte: I am not sure if there are depictions in the *real thing*
[18:52] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> indeed, as are comics of any kind
[18:53] <Lux> Newsbyte: so depictions are OK, but reality of it is not....
[18:53] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ermm...a depiction is like a drawing, yes?
[18:53] <Lux> Newsbyte: yes
[18:53] <Lux> Newsbyte: but if so, why do they show true violence on the News, etc. Why is "Faces of Death" a popular series of videos
[18:53] <toad_> Newsbyte: okay, so masturbating about rape does not lead to a greater likelihood of raping somebody?
[18:53] <Lux> Newsbyte: Depends on the individual.
[18:53] <toad_> Newsbyte: never?
[18:54] <galt> toad_: does lusting over money mean yolu're going to rob a bank?
[18:54] <Lux> i propose we make a #freenet-ethics :p
[18:54] <toad_> galt: lusting over robbing banks makes it more likely that you will rob a bank, no? i'm talking specifics here
[18:54] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well, being consistent, if I would have the reasoning that looking at a drawing leads to the act, then, apart from CP, one should forbid violence and a myriad of other things in films, drawings, etc. Whatever reasoning one follows, it must be consistent.
[18:55] <toad_> anyway we already have #freenet-chat and #freenet-politics
[18:55] <toad_> unfortunately Newsbyte can't join us there
[18:55] <Lux> ahh kk
[18:55] <Lux> never knew that
[18:55] <Lux> i wasnt going to run /list
[18:55] <Lux> to find it
[18:55] <toad_> yeah
[18:55] <galt> toad_: IIRC IIP has #pol9itics and #freenet-chatt, can't they get robobridged as well?
[18:55] * toad_ changes topic to 'Upgrade to 5089 (mandatory reset) | Unstable: Upgrade to 60180 | Logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ | #freenet-politics and #freenet-chat are available for offtopic discussions'
[18:56] <toad_> galt: sure
[18:56] <toad_> if somebody runs a bridge
[18:57] <toad_> is #iip_i2p actually from i2p?
[18:57] <toad_> or from iip?
[18:57] <toad_> or from both?
[18:58] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that said, I like to keep it straightforward: an act might be legal or not, but a depiction is, ultimately, only data, and data can't be illegal on itself. I mean, what? Making a combination, a pattern of zero's and ones illegal, on itself, is rather silly.
[18:58] <toad_> hmmm
[18:58] <toad_> Newsbyte: that is certainly the post-freenet philosophy
[18:59] <toad_> once it is possible to do freenet (if it is), the tendancy is to one of two extremes
[18:59] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> post freenet? An there I was, thinking I was ahead of my time! ;-)
[18:59] <Lux> Newsbyte: It all has to do with the difference between Depicted reality, and Actual reality, in my mind.
[18:59] <Lux> Newsbyte: I will happily watch a film where 1,000s of people get angrily mowed down by some cliche bad guy, without batting an eye lid
[19:00] <Lux> Newsbyte: BUt see a bus crashed on the news.. is infinitly more devastating.
[19:00] <toad_> hmmm
[19:00] <toad_> what's the do while syntax in java?
[19:00] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I dunno...saying one leads to another, MIGHT be true, when the subject in question is already a nutcase, but still...its bad policy to make laws based on extreme nutcase-issues
[19:00] <toad_> do { ... } while ()
[19:01] <toad_> ?
[19:01] <Lux> Newsbyte: You don't ban knives from a kitchen, because a child can hurt themself with it.
[19:01] * toad_ may have found the RNFing bug...
[19:01] <galt> sounds right, but I'm C polluted too
[19:01] * Lux i get ur point toad_
[19:01] <toad_> it's the same as in C isn't it?
[19:01] <toad_> Lux: what point?
[19:02] <Lux> well maybe no point then
[19:02] <Lux> i just thought it ironic that the main guy behind freenet stuff was asking about do-while
[19:02] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> but then again, M.Moores' films could as well be forbidden too, because some nutcase might see it and do the same
[19:02] <galt> toad_: I think so, but drawing parallels between C and Java is an occupational hazard form a C programmer
[19:02] <Lux> Newsbyte: Information is power. Some nutcase can misuse it. Thats what microsoft say they use closed source for...
[19:02] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> such things, thus, don't make sense. It's the act itself that counts, not the drawings, nor the toughts
[19:03] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> information is power, if you can control it
[19:03] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> with freenet, power is evenly distributed to all people
[19:03] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that's what I like about it
[19:04] <Lux> Is there any way to figure out the storage capacity of freenet?
[19:04] <Lux> in its current state
[19:04] <Lux> like each node has so much storespace
[19:04] <Lux> cant that be like totalled
[19:04] <Lux> so u can have
[19:04] <Lux> "this much used
[19:04] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well..ok...to all ppl with a puter and internet, which isn't all ppl...
[19:04] <Lux> this much free"
[19:04] <toad_> Lux: the efficiency is pretty bad...
[19:05] <toad_> it's a matter of how much data is findable, and how easily
[19:05] <toad_> <Lux> i just thought it ironic that the main guy behind freenet stuff was asking about do-while - :). I just hardly ever used it...
[19:05] <galt> actually, that'd be cool, if the size of all stores was totalled and that used as a traffic indication...
[19:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I think freedom of expression is like being pregnant: you either are, or you aren't, you can't be 'a bit' pregnant, and you can't have 'a bit' freedom
[19:05] <toad_> <Lux> Newsbyte: Information is power. Some nutcase can misuse it. Thats what microsoft say they use closed source for... - LOL. Abusing it? ;)
[19:05] <Lux> toad_: ok, i took it as a "lets get back on track guys"
[19:06] <toad_> <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well..ok...to all ppl with a puter and internet, which isn't all ppl... - sadly not, but often the people who count (e.g. chinese students) do have it
[19:06] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> when you have freedom with limitations (especially when imposed by others) you don't have *real* freedom
[19:06] <toad_> Newsbyte: I don't know
[19:07] <Lux> Someone once said though
[19:07] <toad_> I take an extreme line with freedom of speech
[19:07] <toad_> I'm not sure about some other freedoms
[19:07] <Lux> That freedom is being able to do what is right, not being able to do what you want.
[19:07] <toad_> e.g. you don't have the right to pollute the atmosphere
[19:07] <toad_> in general
[19:07] <toad_> or to commit murder with no consequences
[19:08] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes, well, but as I said: information is power, especially if you can control it. If there is no control (like on freenet), there is no1 that can gather power at the expens of someone else
[19:08] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes, well, but as I said: information is power, especially if you can control it. If there is no control (like on freenet), there is no1 that can gather power at the expens of someone else
[19:08] * sanity (~ian@81-178-89-164.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #freenet
[19:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[19:08] * toad_ hrrm, this MIGHT be some wierd bug...
[19:08] <toad_> sanity: HI!
[19:08] <toad_> sanity: long time no see :)
[19:09] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> in practise, freedom ends when you impose on anothers' freedom. But with data/cyberspace, you can't really do that, so...
[19:09] <toad_> sanity: new load balancing idea: calculate the maximum number of requests we can handle per hour based purely on bandwidth. Make sure globalQuota never goes above that.
[19:09] <toad_> Newsbyte: you can in cyberspace
[19:10] <toad_> you can't by exchanging pure information
[19:10] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> woohoo! We lacked that! New load balancing ideas!
[19:11] <toad_> it's sorta close to ian'
[19:11] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well, provided you have the means of withdrawel at any time, there is no real impact
[19:11] <toad_> s original idea re rate limiting
[19:11] <toad_> Newsbyte: that's a dubious argument
[19:12] <toad_> lol
[19:12] <toad_> ssk@ijROtU5Ksue7Q5N4UZefFioV76EPAgM/1
[19:12] <toad_> the files are owned either by bev harris or by george bush :)
[19:12] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it's like we said about irc and the lot: everyone can say what he wants; as long as I can ignore him...
[19:13] <toad_> Newsbyte: yes
[19:15] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I see a system like freenet as the great equaliser: where it used to be governments and corporations that had the most power, because they could control information the most, when that control goes away, everyone is equal
[19:15] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it's almost a marxist wetdream ;-)
[19:15] <toad_> marxist? ewww
[19:15] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hehe
[19:16] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> luckily nobody didn't see that, he calls me a socialistic pinko already ;-)
[19:16] <toad_> hehe
[19:17] * toad_ is too, but marxism? eeeeeeek :)
[19:17] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well, I've always said communism is the most wonderful concept ever conceived. It had only one drawback: it will never work in real life.
[19:17] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> but as a concept, it's grand
[19:17] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> just like freenet
[19:17] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> lol
[19:18] <Lux> lol
[19:18] <Lux> toad_ 70/70 u've got it sorted
[19:18] <Lux> :D well done
[19:18] <toad_> i think i've fixed the excessive RNFs too...
[19:18] <toad_> Lux: 70?!
[19:18] <toad_> 70 is rather high
[19:18] <Lux> lol yea
[19:19] <Lux> Frost is quite busy
[19:19] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yeah, yeah, everything is fixed...
[19:19] <toad_> Newsbyte: I'd go a lot further than that. I like some of the socialist ideals behind communism, but it's broken as designed, it's too centrist, and so on
[19:19] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> /me has fingers short to count the times he heard that before :-)
[19:20] <toad_> oh, and TV, especially football, is the opiate of the masses, not religion (mostly)
[19:20] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I think the middle-route with capitalistic and socialistic points is best
[19:20] <galt> note that there are at least four TV-episode-leeching freesites...
[19:21] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I think capitalism in the USA is a bit too much towards the raw capitalism of the 18hundreds...and I dislike it.
[19:21] <galt> so, you see, unlike communism, freenet cna live with opiates ;)
[19:21] <toad_> Newsbyte: I lean towards some form of the subsidiarity principle
[19:22] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> lol
[19:22] <toad_> i.e. you have to have some things done centrally, but try to minimize it - without using that as an excuse to privatize stuff that shouldn't be
[19:22] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> you are practically living of one ;-p
[19:22] <toad_> off what?
[19:23] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> a subsidiarity principle
[19:23] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> (it was a joke)
[19:24] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> we subsidise you, see? ;-)
[19:24] * toad_ waits for ~ 15 conns...
[19:24] <toad_> Newsbyte: hehe
[19:24] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> for charity...
[19:24] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> :-)
[19:24] <toad_> there are only so many software business models that don't involve intellectual property
[19:24] <toad_> we've found one
[19:24] <toad_> it's pretty great
[19:24] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-402418b2.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) has joined #freenet
[19:25] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> don't know if it's generally applicable, though
[19:25] <toad_> if i'd been born 5 years earlier i'd probably be working for M$ now
[19:25] <Lux> Hey Lost
[19:25] <lostlogic> hey
[19:25] <Lux> missed a good deb8 earlier
[19:25] <Lux> :p
[19:26] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> let's not foget it's the specific nature of freenet, that makes it possible to engage people in giving enough money
[19:26] <toad_> * 0 were totally unreachable.
[19:26] <toad_> * 0 restarted.
[19:26] <toad_> * 0 cleanly rejected.
[19:26] <toad_> * 1 backed off.
[19:26] <toad_> woah
[19:26] <toad_> with 10 conns running...
[19:27] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I really don't think that any project would be able to muster as much, relatively speaking
[19:27] <toad_> maybe
[19:27] <toad_> the GNU Project employs many people
[19:27] <toad_> several anyway
[19:27] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> 20.000, like IBM? ;-)
[19:28] <toad_> more than 1, unlike us
[19:28] <toad_> iirc
[19:28] <Lux> i want to see ppl from Akamai involved :P
[19:28] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> and even the gnuthingy; they have the same drive too. The..ideological drive.
[19:29] <Lux> but im a lazy ass donothing
[19:29] <toad_> who the hell is akamai?
[19:29] <Lux> they host google
[19:29] <Lux> microsoft
[19:29] <Lux> lycos
[19:29] <Lux> and yahoo
[19:29] <hobx> not google
[19:29] <Lux> with some kinda distributed server things
[19:29] <toad_> Newsbyte: people spend a fortune on proprietary software
[19:29] <toad_> they pirate an almost equally large dollar amount
[19:29] <Lux> hobx: im sure they host google
[19:30] <hobx> toad_: They are just a company that set up load balancing server banks around the world for content distribution.
[19:30] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> they spend it on goods, they seldom spend it on working hours
[19:30] <hobx> Lux: I'm sure they don't
[19:30] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> speaking of software in the view of the consumer, that is
[19:31] <toad_> Newsbyte: so what?
[19:31] <toad_> it costs less for a million consumers to pay somebody to write OSS than it does for them to pay M$
[19:32] <toad_> i'm not saying it's easy
[19:32] <toad_> but there are means
[19:32] <toad_> the ideological projects are just the vanguard
[19:32] <toad_> actually there's somebody working full time on an OSS web editor
[19:32] <toad_> not the one sponsored by Lindows either
[19:32] <toad_> the other one
[19:33] <toad_> paid at living expenses level
[19:33] <toad_> according to the web site
[19:33] <Lux> hobx: i think they do www.google.akadns.net
[19:33] <Lux> hobx: its more of a load balancing thing
[19:33] <hobx> they use Akamai's "enhanced DNS" thing.
[19:34] <hobx> But all content is hosted locally by everything I've heard.
[19:34] * oierw` (mathew@cpe-69-75-126-12.hawaii.rr.com) Quit (Connection timed out)
[19:34] <Lux> ok
[19:34] <Lux> 54/54 toad_
[19:38] <salahx> ouch
[19:39] <toad_> aha
[19:40] <toad_> i think i've found it... hmmm
[19:40] <Lux> ?
[19:40] <salahx> THe UBerbug ?
[19:40] <toad_> no, the rnfbug
[19:40] <toad_> the length of the candidates array passed to NGRouting is clipped to maxsteps
[19:40] <toad_> but maxsteps doesn't include nodes not connected
[19:43] <toad_> so all this network suckage... is down to some refactoring Pascal did ! ;)
[19:44] <toad_> well a lot of it
[19:45] <toad_> of course there's a good chance it was actually my mod...
[19:46] <verl> looking forward to the jars :)
[19:47] <toad_> it appears that it WAS present in 5084...
[19:47] <Lux> lol
[19:48] <toad_> introduced in 60075 apparently...
[19:48] <verl> :)
[19:48] <toad_> no, that's the stable part
[19:48] <toad_> hmmm
[19:49] <toad_> woah
[19:50] <toad_> just after 60028 !
[19:50] <toad_> Tue Mar 30 11:51:10 2004 UTC (4 months ago) by iakin
[19:50] <lostlogic> time for another stable reset :-D :-P !!
[19:50] <toad_> lol
[19:51] <toad_> hopefully that won't be necessary - the people on stable now read the list
[19:51] <toad_> and i haven't updated the web site yet
[19:51] <Lux> btw the "shift" that happens nightly
[19:51] <Lux> does it effect EVERY ssk?
[19:51] <Lux> ie to the SSKs change
[19:51] <toad_> Lux: hmm?
[19:51] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I dunno. Many of the projects you speak about are partially sponored, yes, but by companies. But, at least softwarecompagnies can't just give free progs out, if they want to stay in business, unless they become OS, but then...who is going to pay them in turn? It's chicken and egg problem. Current OS projects that gather seisable amount of money all have a pretty large userbase, and an ideological drive. I can't name one that isn't.
[19:51] <toad_> you mean DBRs?
[19:52] <toad_> only affect SSKs that do DBR redirects
[19:52] <Lux> ok
[19:52] <toad_> Newsbyte: many of the corps doing the funding don't actually sell software
[19:53] <toad_> some do, and still manage to make a profit somehow (didn't redhat make a profit once? :) )
[19:54] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that's true, and I think that will remain major sponsors. I think a hardware-vendor, for instance, can easily afford to pay OS people.
[19:54] <toad_> but in the medium term, business models such as street performer protocol, or what we do, may well work out
[19:55] <toad_> okay, this is looking much better re RNFs...
[19:55] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what protocol? Is that what protocol you use for freenet? No wonder, then!
[19:55] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ;-)
[19:55] <toad_> :)
[19:56] <verl> toad: the rns's has been like *the issue*
[19:56] <toad_> street performer protocol: "like the first track? there's more, you get it when my bank balance reaches $X"
[19:56] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> instead of TCP, no, you had to chose some bum-protocol...
[19:56] <toad_> Current probability of a request succeeding 2.9%
[19:57] <toad_> hmmm
[19:57] <lostlogic> # unique contacts: 1109
[19:57] <toad_> jumpy...
[19:57] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> nah...I don't think it will work, unless, there too, you have a 'drive'
[19:58] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> like, with Stephen kings online book: he thought he could make money out of it that way; payed by visitors, per page
[19:59] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> didn't work out, of course:too much leechers. Then he became angry, said he wasn't going to finish the book, and then HIS FANS put enough money together so he would write it till the end
[19:59] * Hory (~Miranda@81.196.25.110) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
[19:59] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> basic point, you need a fan-base with some ideology, like fans of pop-groups, writers, freenet... but even then, it's only going to work to some extend
[19:59] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> basic point, you need a fan-base with some ideology, like fans of pop-groups, writers, freenet... but even then, it's only going to work to some extend
[20:00] <toad_> Newsbyte: did he write it to the end?
[20:00] <toad_> and you mean individual fans?
[20:00] <toad_> not corporations?
[20:01] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> if you stretch things to much, even fans won't hold you or the project up
[20:01] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hint, hint ;-)
[20:01] <toad_> in which case, it worked! :)
[20:02] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ermm...as I said; if you have a large userbase with some idology (fans would fit) then it's possible
[20:03] <toad_> Newsbyte: and ALL moderately popular media products have exactly that
[20:03] <toad_> as does most major software
[20:03] <toad_> most major OSS software anyway
[20:03] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yeah, well, even sourceforge is littered with OS-projects that died a silent death, while begging for some charity...
[20:04] <toad_> Newsbyte: only because they sucked in the first place
[20:04] <toad_> of course it's going to need to be pretty good to justify full time development
[20:04] <toad_> "good" in terms of potential, fanbase, etc
[20:04] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> luckily, we can pay most OSS-devls with peer-review and a 'thnk u' :-)
[20:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> alas, you weren't one of them ;-)
[20:05] <toad_> Newsbyte: no, we don't
[20:05] <toad_> most of them work for corporations
[20:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> a lot of the smaller projects do
[20:06] <toad_> okay, 60181 will be an interesting build...
[20:06] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> and even in the bigger ones, there it is a major drive. Linux wouldn't even have started, if it was not for the unifying/perreviewing/social gratifying thingy
[20:07] <toad_> Newsbyte: why do people pay for commercial software?
[20:07] <toad_> tech support?
[20:07] <toad_> being a law abiding citizen?
[20:07] <toad_> Newsbyte: sure, and that's the nature of open source
[20:08] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> a mixture of things, and also, some don't even realise it. I mean, they buy a puter, and win is already installed on it.
[20:08] <toad_> there was a journal that went online and asked for funds ages ago
[20:08] <toad_> in 24 hours they had $10K from individual donors
[20:08] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> besides, you are confusing the devl issue and the consumer issue
[20:08] <toad_> it can work out, if people care enough
[20:09] <toad_> if they don't, well, you need a different business model
[20:09] <toad_> or you die :)
[20:09] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yeah, well, the britanica encyclopedia tried the same thing, and there they failed miserably
[20:09] <toad_> they tried what?
[20:10] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I think it depends on the need, and the question of alternatives
[20:10] <toad_> "we need $20M/annum to keep this service going, please donate!"
[20:10] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> if you can get the same for free, then no1 is going to pay, unless purely ideologically
[20:11] <toad_> a lot of people pay for proprietary software
[20:11] <toad_> a lot don't
[20:11] <toad_> but a lot do
[20:11] <toad_> in fact, many people pay for non-crippled shareware
[20:11] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes, but what is your point?
[20:11] <toad_> by that i mean they pay for shareware even though the shareware version is perfectly adequate
[20:12] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> need and alternatives does it
[20:12] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> and shareware sucks :-)
[20:12] <toad_> it's not just about need. a lot of people pay because they want to support it, and play fair. justice is a pretty basic human umm thing. a lot of people don't give a sh*t, but en bloc, very often, enough do
[20:13] <toad_> i completely agree about shareware sucking :)
[20:14] <toad_> but people have made their fortune from it, even without crippleware "features"
[20:14] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> if you need something, you are going to pay for it, if you have no alternatives (or don't know about it), you are going to pay for it, if your ideologically motivated, you're going to pay for it, and then there is legal concerns and the rest...that pretty much deals with all reasons why ppl are willing to pay for software
[20:15] * toad_ would side with Newsbyte, he is a natural cynic, if the facts weren't overwhelmingly against your position. :)
[20:15] <toad_> empiricism beats common sense
[20:15] <Lux> FIND is up
[20:15] * lostlogic doesn't have it yet
[20:15] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> but let's face it: a need, even induced, and no alternatives, that's the way to make big bucks (ask monopolists like MS), all the rest, is peanuts in comparison
[20:17] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> if there was a commercial need (as opposed to idealogical) for freenet, and a company had a monoply on freenet, then you wouldn't be working alone, but with dozens on it, payed by a company.
[20:17] <Lux> lostlogic has not been pre-selected to test :D
[20:17] <Lux> (bad joke)
[20:17] <toad_> Newsbyte: hence the need to create artificial needs
[20:17] <toad_> intellectual property
[20:18] <lostlogic> I'll preselect your ass.
[20:18] <toad_> you're either for us or against us - you know where intellectual property leads
[20:18] <Lux> ll: tongue cant lick what ur hands cant grab
[20:18] <toad_> :)
[20:18] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> instead, we have the chance that there is little real competition, and there is ideology. That makes it enough to pay one coder
[20:18] <lostlogic> Lux: you're a weird bird...
[20:19] <toad_> Newsbyte: if you are right, then we will never be free of intellectual property
[20:19] <lostlogic> wait, if you're a bird, and in the UK ... you could go eat toad for your midnight snack!
[20:19] * verl will step in and pay the bucks when freenet is in deep deep crisis!!
[20:19] <toad_> verl: it isn't now? :)
[20:19] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> your conclusion is not warranted
[20:19] <toad_> Newsbyte: no?
[20:19] <verl> i don't see ian writing about it, so no :)
[20:20] <toad_> LOL verl
[20:20] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I'm saying that, if software goes the way of OSS, then develoment/payment of devls will drop, according to the loss in profit
[20:21] <toad_> Newsbyte: which will be offset by the gains of not having to reinvent the wheel every week (which is a significant gain to innovation as well as productivity) ?
[20:21] <Lux> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 111 (63/48/200)
[20:21] <Lux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 83 (47/36)
[20:21] <Lux> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 41
[20:21] <Lux> o_O
[20:21] <Lux> ahh
[20:21] <Lux> Receiving = 44 now
[20:22] <Lux> DSI = 44
[20:22] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> even with the fact that our project is ideological strong, and has little competition, we STILL can afford only one coder.
[20:22] <toad_> Newsbyte: that may have something to do with the fact that freenet doesn't work :)
[20:22] <toad_> and we've been hacking at it for how many years now?
[20:23] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> lol, partly, yes...though more correct would maybe be that our userbase isn't big enough yet
[20:23] <toad_> right
[20:23] <toad_> our userbase is small because freenet doesn't work
[20:23] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> but even...we'll never get at 20 coders, and you know it
[20:23] <toad_> consequently we can only afford one very badly paid coder
[20:23] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> while, with a commercial need and monopoly of a company, that wouldn't be farfetched
[20:24] <toad_> Newsbyte: well, I never said it was the ONLY viable OSS business model
[20:24] <toad_> just that it's one
[20:24] <toad_> that is sometimes viable
[20:24] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> true
[20:25] <toad_> for something like an OS, you can probably get hardware makers to pay for it
[20:25] <toad_> and people like redhat
[20:25] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I'm not saying there can't be other viable models. Look at Red Hat, etc. But...not to the extend of what is possible in the classical proprietary sheme
[20:26] <toad_> Newsbyte: well, I believe we can produce a similar (better) level of overall creative and productive output
[20:26] <toad_> possibly using fewer programmers to do it
[20:26] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> even radhat, the most succesful of linuxdistributors, gains only a weak shadow of what other softwarevendors get
[20:27] <toad_> if we can't, well, we ought to all go find something more useful to do, because we're doomed
[20:27] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that may be true. I'm not arguing quality here, only quantity
[20:27] <toad_> freedom be damned, major decisions come down to ECONOMICS
[20:27] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> in fact, I have a suspicion quality is often better if it's OSS
[20:27] <toad_> government decisions
[20:27] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> doomed, doomed...it's all crap that doomthingy
[20:27] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> doomed, doomed...it's all crap that doomthingy
[20:28] <toad_> okay, now, can I get ANY of the DBRs?
[20:28] <toad_> Newsbyte: huh?
[20:28] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> even if IP were destroyed tommorow, ppl would cope and society would adapt and life would go on
[20:28] <toad_> Newsbyte: oh, INDUCE won't pass, the DMCA didn't pass, etc?
[20:28] <salahx> INDUCE hasn't passed yet..
[20:28] <toad_> salahx: thank god
[20:29] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I wasn't talking about that, but rather the reason given: that we will all be doomed, if the current system doesn't hold
[20:29] <toad_> Newsbyte: OSS won't destroy the economy
[20:29] <toad_> overall it's a benefit
[20:29] * jay (~jay@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[20:29] <toad_> especially if you include the whole economy, not just software
[20:29] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that is crap. History shows that many systems have risen and fallen, and we just adapted
[20:29] <toad_> if OSS is destroyed, a great deal will go with it
[20:30] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> indeed, OSS won't destroy the economy; that would be a doom-scenario too :-)
[20:30] <toad_> it won't be the end of the world, but neither was Stalinist Russia
[20:30] <toad_> or Rome
[20:30] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it will only limit the amount of profit/payment in the software sector
[20:30] <jay> [19:29] <toad_> who the hell is akamai?
[20:30] <jay> [19:29] <Lux> they host google
[20:31] <lostlogic> just it's DNS right?
[20:31] <Lux> yea read on
[20:31] <Lux> its some load balancing stuff
[20:31] <jay> akamai doesn't really "host"
[20:31] <Lux> i got to that
[20:31] <Lux> cos i wasnt exactly sure what they did
[20:31] <jay> i worked with them
[20:31] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> but on itself, that isn't dramatic
[20:31] <jay> heh i might still be under ndas
[20:32] <jay> NDA
[20:32] <toad_> Newsbyte: perhaps. In which case we are all either stupid or absurdly dedicated or absurdly altruistic.
[20:32] <toad_> ("we" being OSS developers)
[20:32] <jay> they do distributed load balancing, with thousands of linux boxes all over the world
[20:32] <jay> the best way to put it
[20:32] <jay> they're very expensive too
[20:33] <jay> lux: i met a couple of their programmers from their New York office
[20:33] <toad_> The evidence may be purely anecdotal, but from my experience, nothing seems to get a node integrated quicker than running Frost. Love it or hate it, it does something right to get you well connected. I suspect this is having success at retrieving keys, since messages for popular boards are well propogated.
[20:33] <toad_> there is another theory...
[20:34] <toad_> which is that frost requests lots of small keys
[20:34] <toad_> whereas normal traffic consists of lots of huge keys
[20:34] <toad_> which doesn't get you started fast
[20:34] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it remebers me of the doom-sayers that claim the west is going too be destroyed because we have less children then we used to have, etc. Ah, well, it will cause a bottleneck, but passed that, we simple will have less ppl per square mile. ot that bad. And if population still drops, give ppl 100000 euro per child they make, and you will see it augment again ;-)t
[20:34] * toad_ nods :)
[20:35] <toad_> these things DO cause short term problems some times, because politicians don't see the long term
[20:35] <toad_> also because politics is generally saleable
[20:35] <jay> toad_: i think any continuous app would help Fred get well connected
[20:35] <jay> toad_: my node's been running much better actually
[20:35] <toad_> but "we always adapt" isn't very reassuring considering some of the horrors we've seen as a result of adaptation
[20:35] <toad_> the human race as such isn't in danger
[20:36] <jay> after the update to 60178
[20:36] <toad_> that's not the problem though :)
[20:36] <toad_> jay: you'll like 60181
[20:36] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I would claim that not adapting will prove to be our doom, actually
[20:37] <toad_> okay, that's enough testing...
[20:37] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> as long as an organism can adapt to new circumstances, it will thrive. the moment it can't, it's die
[20:37] <jay> toad_: cool mon
[20:37] <lostlogic> toad_: will unstable code still not work right on stable network, or is that fixed now?
[20:37] <jay> toad_: for a while i was dead in the water
[20:37] <toad_> Newsbyte: even if the worst greenhouse prophecies happen, humanity will survive. Whether the billions alive beforehand survive is another matter, but some rich humans WILL find a way to survive.
[20:38] <toad_> lostlogic: hmm?
[20:38] <toad_> lostlogic: they're very similar now
[20:38] <jay> toad_: those with the mark on their hands won't fare so well
[20:38] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> true, to some extend. Really devastating things couls whipe us out, however
[20:38] <toad_> sure, if a supernova happens within 100 l.y. or so, for example :)
[20:39] <lostlogic> toad_: cuz yesterday I was trying it and there was a rate limiting problem making my node eat bw like a starved hog
[20:39] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> like a meteorimpact the size of a maountain :-)
[20:39] <toad_> lostlogic: on new stable?
[20:39] <toad_> hmmm
[20:39] <verl> what! if meteor comes bruce will go kill it!
[20:39] <Lux> toad_.... 5090 pre will be tomorrow then?
[20:39] <lostlogic> toad_: yeah
[20:41] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yes, have faith in Tha Bruce
[20:41] <toad_> Lux: no
[20:41] <toad_> in 10 minutes or so
[20:41] <jay> the west will be destroyed one day, no doubt
[20:41] <jay> at least economically speaking it can't sustain itself
[20:41] <Lux> toad_: ok
[20:42] <jay> but even the poorest countries in general contain very rich families
[20:43] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> anyway, charity, ideology, or third-party-companies-that-benefit-from-software may be the future sponsors of devls, and the huge profits will be gone, but maybe that's not a bad thing, and it's certainly not doom for society. That's how I see it.
[20:43] <toad_> Newsbyte: huge profits come from monopolies
[20:43] <toad_> the money is in M$'s hands because it isn't in everyone else's
[20:43] <toad_> and especially it isn't in its competitors' and consumers' hands
[20:44] * toad_ changes topic to 'Upgrade to 5089 (mandatory reset) | Unstable: Upgrade to 60181 | Logs: http://newton.matcmp.ncc.edu/~lockej/freenet/chanlog/ | #freenet-politics and #freenet-chat are available for offtopic discussions'
[20:44] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> often, yes. But also need and the possibility of alternatives (which creates at least a temporary virtual monopoly)
[20:44] <jay> we're totally off topic it seems
[20:45] <jay> rewrite Freenet in C or the world will end
[20:45] <toad_> okay, /me does a final branch diff to see if there's anything else needs merging
[20:45] <toad_> jay: :)
[20:45] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that said, MS pays more devls then would be possible simply by charity
[20:45] <jay> the java native stuff was a great idea.. kudos to all those involved
[20:45] <salahx> yeah adn they STILL put out a shitty product :)
[20:45] <toad_> hehe
[20:45] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> true
[20:45] <toad_> it doesn't matter whether M$ software is good or not
[20:46] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> :-)
[20:46] <toad_> what matters is that M$ can only continue by increasingly absurd and dangerous world domination
[20:46] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> though, in all honesty, win2000 isn't too bad
[20:46] <toad_> and this will result in severe compromizes of virtual freedom
[20:46] <salahx> yeah
[20:46] <salahx> but evne now, there rate of growth is slowing
[20:46] <jay> toad_: MS is getting rid of much of it's exess cash
[20:46] <toad_> jay: "getting rid" ?
[20:47] <jay> toad_: they're getting out of the "dominate and crush" business model
[20:47] <jay> toad_: wall stree journal reported all this
[20:47] <jay> so their exess cash they're "givin" away in large dividends
[20:48] <jay> apparantly when companies do this they're adopting a more conservative posture
[20:48] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> certainly...I agree with the ideology (otherwise I wouldn't be here), but I still think one should be realist in it: if every softwarecompany would turn OSS, then there wouldn't be enough possibilities to keep paying the same amount of coders.
[20:48] <jay> at least that's what i read ;)
[20:48] <toad_> jay: maybe
[20:48] <jay> time will tell of course
[20:48] <toad_> jay: their business model is get Longhorn out, and destroy open source
[20:48] <toad_> that's their mid term goal
[20:48] <jay> they can't destroy open source
[20:48] <salahx> Given the current status of Longhorn, Freenet 1.0 may come otu first :)
[20:49] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that said; ppl will adapt. For instance, coders will be content with less. You are, in fact, avant gardish, toad! ;-)
[20:49] <jay> toad_: they'll give up that battle eventually as well
[20:49] <toad_> jay: only if they lose
[20:49] <jay> they're also working hard on software "leasing", which .NET is a big piece of
[20:49] <toad_> it's good that they're abandoning their dubious stock price inflation tactics though
[20:50] <jay> they'll probably make most of their money in the future that way
[20:50] <jay> toad_: heh
[20:50] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> yeah, well, now THAT was crap; the 'future vision' of sun and MS...bull
[20:50] * Zorix (Brandon@fl-69-34-136-223.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #freenet
[20:50] * toad_ was a little worried for the health of the global economy if that continued :)
[20:50] <jay> Sun is actually doing the opposite of MS it seems
[20:51] * greycat (rfc1413@wooledge.org) has joined #freenet
[20:51] <jay> they're going on a spending bender
[20:51] <jay> acquisitions and takeovers
[20:51] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> if anything, it's NOT going to be the hardware that we get for free, and paying for the software, but the other way around. That's so obvious, there thinly-disguised marketing should be cherise-red of shame.
[20:52] <toad_> Newsbyte: if what you're saying is that programmers are becoming working-class, then I don't really mind :)
[20:52] <toad_> there are more skilled jobs that are paid less
[20:52] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> lol
[20:52] <toad_> I would like $3K/mo though :)
[20:52] <jay> programmers are becoming obsolete if you're not living in India
[20:52] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> true, and there are some that are grossely overpayed, like 'top' managers
[20:53] <toad_> Newsbyte: what do you expect? they're managers. they have the people skills AND the code skills (well the small fraction of good ones do) - good ones are worth a fair bit
[20:53] <toad_> s/small/tiny
[20:53] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hey, look, many workers had to adapt when circumstances (industrial revolution, for instance) changes, it's going to be the same for coders.
[20:54] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> at least you'll be causy settled in an ideological strong nice, toad :-)
[20:55] <toad_> Newsbyte: where half the world thinks i'm in league with the devi^wpaedophiles
[20:55] <toad_> and terrorists
[20:55] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> niche
[20:55] <toad_> :)
[20:55] <toad_> okay, starting 5090...
[20:55] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what does the other half think? ;-)
[20:55] <Lux> they dont think.. they know he is :p
[20:55] <greycat> don't forget "thieves" (by which they mean "pirates", by which they mean "copyright infringers")
[20:56] * lostlogic starts latest CVS on stable, and hopes to leave the node running for a long time straight to collect a number of unique contacts
[20:56] <toad_> Newsbyte: my point anyway: if TPTB think OSS is a threat to the economy, they will do anything and everything in their power to destroy it short of pissing off the electorate
[20:57] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ah yes, while some things cause me some unease, I know for a fact I won't lay awake at night, thinking off all those vile thieves and pirates, that steal from poor RIAA on freenet ;-)
[20:57] <toad_> ;)
[20:57] <toad_> THAT'S BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY YET!
[20:57] <toad_> s/any/more than token numbers
[20:57] <toad_> :)
[20:57] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> true
[20:58] <greycat> hey, if you work really really hard, you can insert a whole 4-minutes song!
[20:58] <toad_> anyone else want my new 5090 freenet.jar?
[20:58] <jay> the usa by definition is evolving towards true facism
[20:58] <toad_> jay: s/USA/world
[20:58] <jay> so read yer history books folks!
[20:58] <toad_> imho
[20:58] <jay> it's happened before
[20:58] * greycat looks at /topic
[20:58] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> not that I wouldknow, obviously, but their seems to be a rather big lack of downloadable multimediastuff...
[20:58] * verl wants. verl always wants.
[20:58] <jay> toad_: i don't agree
[20:59] * greycat remembers downloading Kill Bill vol. 1 successfully not all *that* long ago
[20:59] <jay> toad_: maybe the EU perhaps
[20:59] <toad_> jay: War on Terror + War on Piracy (and P2P and OSS and anything remotely related) -> fascism
[20:59] <greycat> toad_: don't forget War on Drugs.
[20:59] <toad_> in the sense of relations between govt and corps and citizen anyway
[20:59] <toad_> not necessarily the radical nationalism stuff
[21:00] <jay> facism is when government becomes intertwined with big business and corporate intersts
[21:00] <toad_> jay: yup
[21:00] <toad_> that's my meaning
[21:00] <jay> the US isn't run by "The Company" yet, but this is what i mean
[21:00] <Lux> freenet will need an 18+ rating :p
[21:00] <Lux> or they will complain
[21:00] <toad_> it's the natural state of human government imho
[21:00] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> history is full of monopolies and 'settled' corporations trying their hardest to keep things to the used, old ways, with the big fat profits
[21:00] <Lux> that it is misleading children
[21:00] <toad_> anything else you have to fight
[21:00] <toad_> for
[21:00] <jay> toad_: it's natural in a world based in greed
[21:01] <toad_> jay: yup
[21:01] <toad_> but it doesn't maximize global profit!
[21:01] <toad_> all economics says competition, innovation outside the few top megacorps, is useful
[21:01] <jay> i've also read that democracy is the first step towards facism
[21:01] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> mostly though, they couldn't keep progress at bay
[21:01] <toad_> but the natural slide is towards corruption and intellectual property :)
[21:02] <jay> i get chills thinking the US is supporting "democracy" around the world
[21:02] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> which, frankly, is another reason I go for Freenet: it's potential is WAY outside the pure online/data stuff
[21:02] <jay> sowing the seeds of nonsense
[21:02] <toad_> okay
[21:02] <toad_> anyone got CofE or YoYo yet?
[21:03] <lostlogic> Attempts were made to contact 2 nodes.
[21:03] <lostlogic> * 0 were totally unreachable.
[21:03] <lostlogic> * 0 restarted.
[21:03] <lostlogic> * 2 cleanly rejected.
[21:03] <lostlogic> * 40 backed off.
[21:03] <toad_> lostlogic: how many connected nodes?
[21:03] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it has the potential to make EVERY IP worthless, when it's not incorporated in something physical
[21:03] <toad_> if much more than 42, do you want to try a build that fixes it?
[21:03] * greycat getting RNFs too, on 5089
[21:03] <lostlogic> 58
[21:03] <lostlogic> 48
[21:03] <toad_> Newsbyte: the problem comes when IP is more valuable than physical objects...
[21:04] <toad_> lostlogic: can i dcc you a jar? which branch are you on?
[21:04] <jay> the amound of money that music, film etc. generates through mechanical means is astronomical
[21:04] <jay> *only* because of the IP laws
[21:04] <greycat> * 0 were totally unreachable.
[21:04] <greycat> * 0 restarted.
[21:04] <greycat> * 0 cleanly rejected.
[21:04] <greycat> * 44 backed off.
[21:04] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> I mean, think about copyright, tradesecrets, all those things that work on the premisse that those things can be legally forced, thus controlled
[21:04] <toad_> greycat: connected nodes?
[21:04] <lostlogic> toad_: as per usual, stable network, unstable code... this is a jar of something not in latest CVS?
[21:04] <toad_> greycat: want to betatest for me?
[21:04] <greycat> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 44 (11/33/100)
[21:04] <toad_> lostlogic: it's in unstable cvs
[21:04] <greycat> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 51 (25/26)
[21:04] <greycat> toad_: uh... sure, ok.
[21:04] <toad_> as of 10 minutes ago
[21:05] <lostlogic> toad_: I think it is just my node's starting up stupidity that is causing RNFs... I'll let you know if it still happens...
[21:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> if freenet would become truelly popular, then everything that can be digitalised, loses it's force to be enforced
[21:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> the potential is staggering, really
[21:05] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> so is the lack of real succes in NGR ;-)
[21:05] <toad_> Newsbyte: the problem is that the economy isn't based on physical goods
[21:06] <lostlogic> toad_: it's trying all nodes... 57 connections, 55 backed off, 2 rejected...
[21:06] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> that's an exageration
[21:06] <toad_> sure, it is now, but it increasingly isn't
[21:06] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> the economy is still largely based on physical goods
[21:07] <toad_> you can only sell so many cars to one person in a week
[21:07] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> in fact, they form the basis (think about food, for instance)
[21:07] <salahx> well econmies ahve alwasy been basedo n scarcity
[21:07] <toad_> salahx: hence the need for artificial scarcity in intellectual property
[21:07] <toad_> that's the scary thing
[21:07] <salahx> yeah
[21:07] <toad_> most of the economic doctrines say we're dead
[21:08] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> indeed, I know where you are going, toad: we are becomming a 'IP' economy, after we became an industrial economy
[21:09] <toad_> it doesn't matter whether it's true
[21:09] <toad_> it matters that the powers of the world believe it
[21:09] <toad_> well to some degree it matters whether it's true
[21:09] <toad_> but belief matters more immediately
[21:09] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> but, you see, the force of freenet is potentially overwhelming in that regard, because, after all, IP is mere data. And if you make sure data can't be controlled, then that whole force, that whole new 'industry' grinds to a halt
[21:10] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> what a potential! and you must make that potential through, toad! So, hurry your little gren legs! :-)
[21:10] <jay> Freenet isn't saving us
[21:11] <jay> it's a tool to use in this ridiculous world
[21:11] <toad_> which is why freenet is a threat to western civilization/capitalism as we know it, as well as the inevitable fascist leanings of most states, and will therefore be CRUSHED
[21:11] <greycat> man, who spiked the water tonight?
[21:11] <jay> heh
[21:11] <toad_> does anyone else want the jar?
[21:11] <toad_> it should say 5090...
[21:11] <greycat> toad_: if it's got extra warts and toadstools, I'll try it
[21:12] <lostlogic> man, Ihaven't been following this all, but let me see if I understand: toad is trying to make freenet work well enough that it gets popular, and therby destroys the worldwide economy throwing us into an economic downturn in which nobody can even afford computers let alone bandwidth to run freenet on .
[21:12] <Lux> it says 5089
[21:12] <Lux> um
[21:12] <toad_> heh, he hasn't updated CofE..
[21:12] <toad_> lostlogic: LOL
[21:12] <Lux> 2459636?
[21:12] <Lux> is the file size
[21:13] <toad_> lostlogic: no. the economic theocracy says that we need censorship. big gov and big corps want political censorship. for all of the above reasons, freenet must be crushed.
[21:13] <lostlogic> SO in actuality, toad is working to destroy freenet, and we should therefore stage a coo right now and halt freenet's development in order to make sure that the network will remain.
[21:13] <toad_> I'm not saying that freenet WILL destroy the economy
[21:13] <lostlogic> toad_: ahh, I see. :-P
[21:13] <lostlogic> hehehehee
[21:13] <toad_> I'm explaining the decision process
[21:13] <greycat> maybe it'll just cripple the economy a bit.
[21:13] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> it's not about saving us in the strict sense; even if IPeconomy came through, we would adapt (though I wouldn't be too happy). But, I do belive in the potential of freenet to destroy that giant force, like david with goliath
[21:13] <greycat> or give it a hernia.
[21:13] <Zorix> did i hear a 5090
[21:13] <toad_> I do think capitalism is in for a bumpy ride - either we win, and things get interesting, or they win, and we're looking at fascism
[21:14] * lostlogic got FIND
[21:14] <verl> lux: if it doesn't say 5090 uoi have the wrong one
[21:14] <lostlogic> but still no CofE or YoYo for me.
[21:14] <Lux> toad.. check the size of the 5090 jar
[21:14] <jay> who's we and they?
[21:14] <jay> it's the rich versus ..
[21:14] <toad_> I'm of the opinion that knowledge economy != IP economy
[21:14] <Lux> im using the one toad sent me
[21:14] <toad_> but that'll take decades to fully explore
[21:14] <toad_> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2459653 Aug 6 02:24 /usr/src/cvs/freenet-stable/lib/freenet.jar
[21:14] <greycat> give us an md5sum, too
[21:14] <Lux> could u send me that one then please :)
[21:15] <toad_> 688633135f2d410207c675245c706bb0
[21:15] <Lux> i mean
[21:15] <verl> ooh, Outbound request quota used 484/300 (161.33333%)
[21:15] <verl> Current upstream bandwidth usage 30819 bytes/second (125,4%)
[21:15] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> lets face it, with a popular, good working Freenet, the IP-economy is gone. The ONLY way they could counter that is...
[21:16] <toad_> Newsbyte: I suspect that freenet is important because we will lose in the medium term
[21:16] <toad_> even if we win in the long term
[21:16] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> by making Freenet illegal alltogether. It's the only way to counter it, then.
[21:16] <toad_> and some form of guerilla networking will be very important
[21:16] <lostlogic> I don't thin kthat freenet will destroy IP... Gnutella hasn't...
[21:16] <toad_> freenet may not be it
[21:17] <toad_> but freenet is an important step along the road
[21:17] <salahx> yes
[21:17] <jay> Gozilla will destroy IP
[21:17] <jay> +d
[21:17] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> let's not forget that the basis of the IP-economy lays in the possibility of control. That's the main issue. Destroy the control, and you destroy this force.
[21:17] <greycat> hey, come on guys, you haven't even mentioned nanites yet!
[21:17] <Lux> ok..
[21:18] <greycat> or nazis!
[21:18] <toad_> greycat: i implied it
[21:18] <toad_> that too
[21:18] <Lux> 2459653
[21:18] <jay> IMF
[21:18] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hehe$
[21:18] <jay> WTO
[21:18] <jay> etc
[21:18] <Lux> 688633135f2d410207c675245c706bb0
[21:18] <salahx> WIPO
[21:19] <jay> Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) is making history with its planned $32 billion dividend payout
[21:19] * toad_ is muxing this with testing 5090
[21:19] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> well...we WILL lose in the medium term, if you keep wasting time on NGR and the lot like this ;-p
[21:19] <Lux> 5090 :D
[21:20] <jay> Lehman Brothers economist Drew Matus figures the payout could boost gross domestic product, on an annualized basis, by 0.2 to 0.3 percentage point.
[21:20] <jay> The ability of a single company to move the GDP number is a remarkable feat in itself.
[21:20] <jay> that's scary actually
[21:20] <toad_> Newsbyte: how about if i keep wasting my time talking to you about grossly off topic long term issues?
[21:20] <toad_> jay: woah
[21:20] <jay> let's no mention the javascript search engine
[21:20] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ah, then, I would forgive you ;-)
[21:20] <jay> not
[21:20] <salahx> I don;t remember CPRoutingAlg beign any better...
[21:21] <toad_> jay: curious... I'd expect M$ to keep hold of its cash in case they have to sell longhorn really cheap to get the adoption they need
[21:21] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ah, yes, speaking of which; a js searchengine would be really cool and useful and... ;-)
[21:21] <greycat> write it.
[21:22] <lostlogic> Current upstream bandwidth usage 66032 bytes/second (137.6%)
[21:22] <lostlogic> toad_: I think rate limiting may still be broken
[21:22] <jay> toad_: the OS doesn't make them money, office does
[21:22] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> ian won't have anything to do with it (and it's already written)
[21:22] <Lux> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 34 (23/11/200)
[21:22] <Lux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 43 (12/31)
[21:22] <Lux> Data waiting to be transferred 1,220 Bytes
[21:22] <Lux> Total amount of data transferred 3,138 KiB
[21:22] <toad_> lostlogic: should settle...
[21:22] <Lux> Uptime: 3 minutes
[21:22] <toad_> jay: the OS is how they crush open source, and how they keep and leverage their monopoly
[21:22] <lostlogic> toad_: usually doesn't it is holding pretty steady at this level for the past 7 of 8 mins
[21:22] <toad_> it's the basis of their office suite dominance
[21:23] <jay> toad_: i would say their embrace and extend practice is their primary tool for dominance
[21:23] <jay> among other legal and economic tactics
[21:23] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> no, they will crush OSS with softwarepatents
[21:23] <toad_> can ANYONE get the files linked from the arch-over-freenet site?
[21:23] <toad_> Newsbyte: that too
[21:23] <toad_> multi-pronged attack
[21:24] <jay> toad_: i have them i think
[21:24] <jay> toad_: i want to re-start that project
[21:24] <iip_i2p> <Newsbyte> hmm...have to sleep now, cul8er
[21:24] <toad_> Current upstream bandwidth usage 9573 bytes/second (95.7%)
[21:25] <jay> brb
[21:25] * jay (~jay@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (".")
[21:25] <verl> Current upstream bandwidth usage 38415 bytes/second (156,3%)
[21:26] <verl> Current estimated load for rate limiting 194,4%
[21:26] <lostlogic> woah, toad might have been right, it seems to be settling...
[21:26] <verl> 42994 bytes/second (174,9%)
[21:26] <verl> going up for me!
[21:26] <lostlogic> yikes
[21:26] <verl> totaly maxing my line
[21:27] * jay (jcl@ool-18bf6dac.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #freenet
[21:27] <verl> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 195 (111/84) :)
[21:27] * greycat still awaits the completion of the 5090 download
[21:28] <greycat> -rw-r--r-- 1 greg greg 1082592 2004-08-05 21:46 freenet.jar
[21:28] <verl> what a beast :)
[21:28] <lostlogic> seems to have settled down for me now... hopefully it will for you too, verl...
[21:28] <lostlogic> bbl zzz (to use toad's phrase)
[21:29] * toad_ wonders why firefox stops downloading the boxes on antifaq...
[21:29] * lostlogic (~lostlogic@node-402418b2.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[21:29] <greycat> toad_: is that accompanied by "Document contains no data" from the web browser? I get that sometimes.
[21:30] <verl> is this new high lever bandwith limiting? does not seem to be so healthy
[21:31] <Zorix> ok im missin somethin.. is there a new version of stable?
[21:32] <Lux> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 84 (60/24/200)
[21:32] <Lux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 162 (100/62)
[21:32] <Lux> Data waiting to be transferred 7,066 Bytes
[21:32] <Lux> Total amount of data transferred 24 MiB
[21:32] <greycat> Zorix: toad's testing one, it's not released yet
[21:32] <Lux> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 63
[21:32] <Zorix> whats changed
[21:32] <Lux> Up: 13 minutes
[21:33] <verl> Current estimated load for rate limiting 201,8%
[21:33] <toad_> <verl> is this new high lever bandwith limiting? does not seem to be so healthy - huh?
[21:34] <toad_> i just reinstated the old one
[21:34] <toad_> doesn't it always spike on startup?
[21:34] <toad_> high level = long term
[21:34] <Lux> Current estimated load for rate limiting 173.4%
[21:35] <toad_> woah
[21:35] <toad_> what does that come from?
[21:35] <toad_> messageSendTimeRequest?
[21:35] <verl> toad: you cvs msg said: Reinstate old high-level bandwidth limiting, in addition to new limiting.
[21:35] <toad_> verl: yes
[21:35] <verl> and i thought that may be the reason for why it wont settle down
[21:35] <toad_> on unstable
[21:36] <toad_> on the new stable, it's more like "add another form of high level bandwidth limiting, keeping the old one"
[21:36] * greycat needs to build a new linux kernel soon, too (still on 2.4.26 on griffon and 2.4.25 on goblin...)
[21:37] <greycat> 21:55 DCC received file freenet.jar [2MB] from toad_ in 00:24:51 [1.61kB/s]
[21:37] <toad_> ugh
[21:37] <toad_> the others went fast
[21:37] <greycat> maybe your ISP hates Americans
[21:37] <jay> yeah everything else does
[21:37] <toad_> maybe so
[21:37] <toad_> i doubt it
[21:37] <verl> still 200% ratelimit load after 30 mins? acceptable perhaps, but it is way diffrent from 5089
[21:37] <toad_> (they're a megacorp)
[21:37] <toad_> major backbone provider
[21:38] <toad_> in the uk
[21:38] <toad_> second only to BT i think
[21:38] <verl> still 200% ratelimit load after 30 mins? acceptable perhaps, but it is way diffrent from 5089
[21:38] <toad_> verl: is it?
[21:38] <jay> im ripping a cd and inserting a splitfile.. if i disappear my machine blew up
[21:38] <toad_> i always have fairly high rate limiting load for a while after startup
[21:38] <toad_> due mostly to messageSendTimeRequest
[21:39] <toad_> verl: caused by messageSendTimeRequest?
[21:39] <toad_> or what?
[21:40] <toad_> well, mail me your conclusions
[21:40] <toad_> i'm going to bed now
[21:40] <Lux> nite toad
[21:40] <toad_> tomorrow i'll probably put out 5090
[21:40] <Lux> RFNs on CoE lol
[21:40] <toad_> but if it sucks, i won't
[21:40] <Lux> well that was early
[21:40] <toad_> it looks to me like it works pretty well
[21:40] <Lux> all DFNs now
[21:40] <jay> newsbyte says it sucks ;)
[21:40] <toad_> but a sample of 1 isn't much good
[21:41] <toad_> i'm toad@amphibian.dyndns.org, in case anyone doesn't know
[21:41] * greycat still on 'starting filesystem'...
[21:41] <verl> Reason for QueryRejecting requests: Estimated load (126,7%) > overloadHigh (125%)Estimated load (126,7%) > overloadHigh (125%)
[21:42] <toad_> verl: but why is it that high?
[21:42] <toad_> it explains below
[21:42] <verl> ugh, im getting crazy lag
[21:42] <toad_> e.g.
[21:42] <toad_> Load due to messageSendTimeRequest = 283.9% = 1419ms / 500ms > overloadLow (100%)
[21:42] <toad_> Load due to output bandwidth limiting = 112.7% because outputBytes(541057) > limit (480000.007 ) = outLimitCutoff (0.8) outputBandwidthLimit (10000) 60
[21:42] <toad_> Load due to CPU usage = 132% = 99% / 0.75
[21:42] <verl> irc messages come all at once it's scary!
[21:42] <Lux> Reasons for load: 41449.41430744523 req/hr * 0.002825559552000002 (pTransfer) * 301464.0 bytes = 35306796 bytes/hr expected from current requests, but maxInputBytes/minute = 2949120 (output limit assumed smaller than input capacity) * 60 * 1.1 = 194641920 bytes/hr target
[21:42] <Lux> Load due to expected outbound transfers: 23% because: 5911.338241912513 req/hr * 0.0040(996 0s, 4 1s, 1000 total) (pTransfer) * 301464.0 bytes = 7128222 bytes/hr expected from current requests, but maxInputBytes/minute = 516095 * 60 * 0.8 = 30965759 bytes/hr target
[21:42] <verl> Load due to thread limit = 125%
[21:42] <verl> Load due to routingTime = 13,1% = 131ms / 1000ms <= overloadLow (50%)
[21:42] <verl> Load due to messageSendTimeRequest = 95,4% = 954ms / 1000ms > overloadLow (50%)
[21:43] <verl> Load due to output bandwidth limiting = 191,9% because outputBytes(2547159) > limit (1327103,965 ) = outLimitCutoff (0,9) * outputBandwidthLimit (24576) * 60
[21:43] <verl> Load due to expected inbound transfers: 15,9% because: 44298.128050081934 req/hr * 7.073565840000006E-4 (pTransfer) * 494848.0 bytes = 15505850 bytes/hr expected from current requests, but maxInputBytes/minute = 1474560 (set input limit) * 60 * 1.1 = 97320960 bytes/hr target
[21:43] <verl> Load due to expected outbound transfers: 13,8% because: 17274.569942170707 req/hr * 0.0010(999 0s, 1 1s, 1000 total) (pTransfer) * 494848.0 bytes = 8548286 bytes/hr expected from current requests, but maxInputBytes/minute = 1032191 * 60 * 0.8 = 61931519 bytes/hr target
[21:43] <toad_> 125% on thread limit? interesting
[21:43] <toad_> what's it set to?
[21:43] <Lux> << Load due to thread limit = 102.5%
[21:43] <Lux> << Load due to routingTime = 5.8%
[21:43] <Lux> !<!< Load due to messageSendTimeRequest = 296.8%
[21:43] <greycat> Current upstream bandwidth usage12552 bytes/second (104.6%) (uptime 5 minutes)
[21:43] <toad_> have you changed the thread limit?
[21:43] <Lux> << Load due to output bandwidth limiting = 128.6%
[21:44] <toad_> yeah, i changed the thresholds for messageSendTimeRequest
[21:44] <toad_> it may be that they are too aggressive
[21:44] <toad_> some testing suggested that it would work reasonably
[21:44] <toad_> Pascal's testing...
[21:44] <verl> toad: default
[21:45] <toad_> awww, i can't get most of BATB
[21:45] <toad_> Beating around the Bush
[21:45] <toad_> not immediately anyway...
[21:45] <greycat> that's an older site, probably not well routed
[21:46] <toad_> bbl
[21:46] <verl> the node is not doing anything to lower its doing
[21:47] <greycat> Current estimated load for rate limiting236.2% [Rejecting incoming connections and requests!]
[21:47] <greycat> Load due to messageSendTimeRequest = 236.2% = 1180ms / 500ms > overloadLow (100%)
[21:47] <greycat> Load due to output bandwidth limiting = 132.3%
[21:47] <greycat> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 36 (20/16/100)
[21:47] <greycat> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 114 (67/47)
[21:48] <greycat> That's way too many active transfers.
[21:49] <toad_> greycat: hmmm
[21:49] <toad_> on the Environment page, are there 47 DataStateInitiators?
[21:49] <toad_> in which case the 47 is genuine
[21:50] <toad_> what's your bandwidth limit?
[21:50] <greycat> 43 and 43 now.
[21:50] <greycat> bandwidth limit is 12000 out, no limits in
[21:50] <toad_> and outgoing?
[21:50] <toad_> transmitting transfers?
[21:50] <greycat> Current upstream bandwidth usage12808 bytes/second (106.7%)
[21:51] <toad_> no i just meant how many transmitting now?
[21:51] <greycat> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 37 (20/17/100)
[21:51] <greycat> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 113 (73/40)
[21:51] * toad_ is not trying to fix ALL freenet problems with 5090
[21:51] <toad_> it just needs to be an improvement on 5089
[21:51] <toad_> okay? :)
[21:51] <salahx> yeah, don;tg tery to do the impossible :)
[21:51] <toad_> i'd like to be told (in email if i'm not here) about all major regressions
[21:52] <toad_> now bbl zzz
[21:52] <toad_> but tomorrow i will release 5090
[21:52] <toad_> hopefully
[21:52] <toad_> if there are major regressions i'll address them first
[21:53] <verl> now it says outboundRequestLimit exceeded.outboundRequestLimit exceeded.
[21:53] <verl> can't browse so i will go sleep, leave it on though, perhaps it will have melt everything when i wake up :)
[21:53] <toad_> salahx: by all means try to do the impossible but try to do it so that if you fail you will have made SOME progress
[21:54] <toad_> bbl
[21:59] <greycat> outgoing bwlimiting is steady at 100-106%, but I've been rejecting connections & queries for 10 minutes now due to avgMessageSendTimeRequest(1073.406) > successfulSendTimeCutoff(1000.000)
[21:59] <greycat> my IRC lag is back, 5+ second delays on ntp, etc.
[22:04] * Tailchaser (~tailchase@pool-68-162-16-41.nwrk.east.verizon.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[22:05] <Lux> Connections open (Inbound/Outbound/Limit) 121 (85/36/200)
[22:05] <Lux> Transfers active (Transmitting/Receiving) 189 (68/121)
[22:05] <Lux> Data waiting to be transferred 6,500 Bytes
[22:05] <Lux> Total amount of data transferred 128 MiB
[22:06] <Lux> freenet.node.states.data.DataStateInitiator 122
[22:06] <Zorix> Current probability of a request succeeding 0.7%
[22:07] <Zorix> sad
[22:07] <greycat> Current probability of a request succeeding0.3%
[22:08] <Lux> Current probability of a request succeeding 1.1%
[22:08] <Lux> :D
[22:08] <Lux> Current probability I am off to bed now and I will end up getting up late tomorrow: 190%
[22:08] <Zorix> lol
[22:08] <Lux> good night all
[22:08] <verl> i have 5 minutes lag i get 20 msgs at once!
[22:08] <verl> i have external limiter called netlimiter but it has no chance at all to stop 5090!
[22:08] <Zorix> night
[22:08] * Lux (~Lux@82-37-17-24.cable.ubr03.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ("Leaving")
[22:09] <greycat> verl: I know the feeling... my firewall can't cope with Freenet for some reason, and it's stumping me.
[22:09] * proteusguy (proteusguy@66-90-229-217.dyn.grandenetworks.net) has joined #freenet
[22:11] * Knio_ (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[22:12] <greycat> clock's starting to destabilize on the firewall... I got two mails from cron about collisions when trying to update my rrdtool stats
[22:37] * jabawok_h2 (~rob@203-59-105-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #freenet
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[22:44] * cehteh (foobar@cehteh.homeunix.org) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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[22:45] * TheSeeker (~Fridlekh@4.27.134.106) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[22:45] * Zv2S (~rfc1413@213.146.114.96) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[22:47] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[22:49] * hirvox (~hirvox@cs181027153.pp.htv.fi) has joined #freenet
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[22:49] -dilbert- [Server Notice] Hi all. Backbone split, we're working on reconnecting.
[22:53] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) has joined #freenet
[22:53] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[22:54] * JustMe_ (JustMe_@cs6669187-74.houston.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:56] * thelema (~thelema@adsl-65-65-202-46.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) has joined #freenet
[22:57] <thelema> hi all
[22:57] <salahx> Hi thelema
[22:59] * Knio_ (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) has left #freenet
[23:01] * piranha (piranha@3ffe:b80:1ca1:0:0:0:deca:fbad) has joined #freenet
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[23:02] <thelema> what's the reaction in here to JAP?
[23:03] <thelema> err, TOR
[23:05] <jabawok_h2> someone fill me in on what JAP is? seen it mentioned a few times now..
[23:06] <thelema> jap is some sort of onion routing system.
[23:07] <thelema> http://anon.inf.tu-dresden.de/index_en.html/
[23:09] * dystopia (admin@gaia-wan0.ipv6.freeshell.bofx.net) has joined #freenet
[23:09] <Terminato> JAP has also been backdoored by (IIRC) the German authorities
[23:10] <salahx> had been
[23:10] <salahx> I vbleeive they later ruled that act illegal anyway
[23:13] <jabawok_h2> looks like a good idea...
[23:21] <jay> freenet:CHK@zHDVSp18tHIdFagOt~5zH4VDEOoKAwI,8o6L-Q79yVjO-l~DMpnzMA/duh.txt
[23:22] <jay> FagOt~
[23:25] <jabawok_h2> re JAP, looks like they have some serious design goal problems with usage monitoring functionality present etc...
[23:39] * salahx (salahx@sc1-24.217.174.147.charter-stl.com) Quit ()
[23:41] * Hamled (~hamled@pool-68-163-62-23.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined #freenet
[23:52] <jabawok_h2> hmm my 5089 is OOMing after about 5 hours.. with -Xmx128M
[23:53] * Knio (~Knio@d205-206-115-116.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #freenet
[23:53] <Hamled> hmm... you're right, this node is a very resource heavy application
[23:58] <Hamled> if I were to give an incorrect URI, would freenet report that as a routenotfound error, or something else?
These logs were automatically created by Jay Oliveri with his gimp hapi on irc.freenode.net.
